Vahaduo NEW! All Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo ON-LINE

... much less than 10-20,000 years, ... our current Final marker is about 2998 ybp -

it depends of how much down the line you tested.

People keep arguing all the time about Haplogroups, (especially the Balkans) and now you’re saying that Haplogroups aren't important, ... lol

It's possible I could share a common direct male ancestor with Torzio in the last 200 - 300 - 500 - 1000 or more years ago
You are confusing me with Albanians.
Even with 3000 years that's 100 generations. You have received genetic input from 100 ancestors. Why focus on one?

I am either M269 or L23. Take your pick. Not that I care.
 
You are confusing me with Albanians.
Even with 3000 years that's 100 generations. You have received genetic input from 100 ancestors. Why focus on one?

I am either M269 or L23. Take your pick. Not that I care.

It’s a Final marker, (we keep testing) It could be 100 or 10 or less generations, ... to Torzio and I most recent traceable common ancestor.

Autosomal change, but:
the Y chromosome is constant, it doesn’t change (it can only mutate), it’s a direct line to all male ancestors.

I didn’t confuse you, ...
 
@bigsnake49

Compared to R1B, T1a2 is rare,

our line was a small group of people, but with the latest update we are only 3, me and Torzio included.

If Covid-19 hits any of us, the line could go extinct, :) (seriously)

... it’s easy to check where the others come from, and possible connections.
 
tRBy8tf.png


I've included Etruscan, Latin, and Ancient Greek populations, as well as Medieval, Neolithic and Chalcolithic samples. Moreover, I've divided the modern Italian samples we have by macro-region.
 
Maybe it’s senseless since I’m albanian , but compared me with some Italian samples with Vahaduo..
d7565132-0337-478e-8cf6-b0f7681a0ae0
 
Vahaduo compare

65fc022a-ae2a-4110-b854-36ed4e336924
 
Target: G
Distance: 3.5434% / 3.54343513

56.8Friuli-VG
19.6Apulia
16.2Malta
5.2Trentino
2.2Italian_Jewish
Sorry for tge ‘empty’ posts ... I tried to copy a photo from Vahaduo but smth went wrong ....
 
Dodecade K12b - My results with all coordinates produced by Eupedia team (ancient samples) more coordinates produced by @jovialis in post #809. Source: 913 data.

Distance to:Duarte
6.29654667GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10892
6.83142738GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10895
7.15328596EarlyMedievalAndalusia_I3585
7.40270896I12516_SE_Iberia_c.10-16CE
7.51741312I12514_SE_Iberia_c.10-16CE
7.79453013R63_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.87062895Roman-SoldierFN_2
7.96743999EarlyMedievalIberiaGranada_I3981
7.98827891GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10852
8.29628230MedievalTaifaofValencia_I12649
8.57093927CrusaderKnightFrenchLebanonCrusaderSI40
8.65500433I3982_SE_Iberia_c.3-4CE
8.79383307I7675_NE_Iberia_c.6-8CE_ES
8.84874002R110_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
8.85043502GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10853
9.14401444I2215_Malak_Preslavets
9.16999455R1289_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
9.54338514I7673_NE_Iberia_c.6-8CE_ES
9.68837448R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
9.70848598CarthagoMaghrebiAndalusia_I7457
9.77754570I12515_SE_Iberia_c.10-16CE
9.77754570SpaniardCordobaCaliphate_I12515
10.09213060GalloRomanCeltMixIberia_I10866
10.16175674I3584_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
10.26428760IberianCordobaCaliphate_I7498
10.27705211I3809_SE_Iberia_c.10-16CE
10.28605367R105_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
10.32874145CL94
10.34106861R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella
10.55773996Italy_Aosta_Valley
10.73484047North_Italian_HGDP01154
10.80122678I8343_NE_Iberia_Late_RomP
10.82306796R109_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
10.96510374R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
10.98203533North_Italian_HGDP01173
10.98636428I2478_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
11.02664954I3574_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
11.12975292HispanoRomanTaifaofValencia_I12647
11.17486018I10897_NE_Iberia_c.8-12CE
11.25954262CrusaderKnightTuscanLebanonCrusaderSI41
11.31809171GironaSantJuliadeRamis_I10851
11.37322733North_Italian_HGDP01172
11.38873566North_Italian_HGDP01171
11.47675912I3579_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
11.70276036I3577_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
11.72289640North_Italian_HGDP01153
11.76165805Bavaria_BB_II5524
11.85137967I10865_NE_Iberia_RomP_out
11.94945605R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
11.96303055I8203_NE_Iberia_Hel(Empúries1)
12.00252473I8475_NE_Iberia_RomP_atypical
12.04995436VasconicTribe_I8209
12.04995436I8209_NE_Iberia_Greek_Empuries1
12.11723978R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
12.13294276I12221_Sardinia_EarlyMedieval_Grotta_Colombi
12.17093259I2520_Balkans_BronzeAge
12.25061274Swiss_Italian
12.28835221North_Italian_HGDP01174
12.30450730I8561_Sicily_EBA_Isnello
12.30531999CL23


y60Q5ur.png
 
You can ask an other Pugliese the same question (same issue) :)

imho the Calabria sample doesn’t represent the average Calabrese, and to a degree the same goes for the Campania sample too.

vTlfPHo.jpg

I think we have to be careful with all the "Sizzi" samples. They're by no means representative, having been chosen by him from who knows where and for who knows what purpose.

That said, I don't think Calabria has some of the "northern" input which went into some areas of Sicily. The additional Saracen/North African input which the Sicilians have was counterbalanced by that Northern Italian input at least as far as placement on a PCA goes.

I touched on that looking at my own results. I've never gotten a "match" with western Sicilians, i.e. at 23andme or Ancestry. However, I've seen other signs of some sort of connection between Sicily, at least the more central and northwestern parts of Sicily, and northwestern Italy. I think it relates back not only to the Lombard settlement, when many Ligurians, Tuscans, Lombards, were settled there, but also to ancient settlement patterns in Sicily. None of that applies to Calabria.

Northeastern Sicily is a bit different. I think they would probably plot closer to Calabrians, as they were less influenced both by the Saracens and the "Lombards", and parts of it, Messina, for example, were settled from Calabria after the major earthquakes there.

As for Campania, I think there is variety there because of the presence of Napoli, where there has been more admixture, and the hinterland, famously near where the expelled Ligures were settled.

Napoli, like northwestern Sicily, may have more "northern" ancestry, including French ancestry, but some expelled Saracens were also settled there, near Salerno, "Saracens" who may have been at least partly native Sicilian.

One just has to look at the variation in Toscana on the PCA above, which had a far less turbulent history, to see how much variation there can be in a single province in Italy. One can see it in Bergamo as well. What is interesting is that if you and Jovialis are representative of Puglia, it is more homogeneous, unless, of course, one of you had your kit used to create the Puglia sample.

Of course, this is just conjecture, although, I hope, based on data and history. I would need lots of samples and the ability to compare them to say anything more certain.

It would be interesting, for example, to plot the samples from this paper on the PCA. They are from northwestern Italy, i.e. the Ligurian hinterland which is now part of Piemonte, an area in the isolated northeast, and Foggia in Puglia.

Maybe Jovialis knows if the samples are available.

This is the paper;
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-019-0551-x

It would also be interesting to see the samples from the Corsica paper on the plot and see how homogeneous, or not, they are...
 
I think we have to be careful with all the "Sizzi" samples. They're by no means representative, having been chosen by him from who knows where and for who knows what purpose.

That said, I don't think Calabria has some of the "northern" input which went into some areas of Sicily. The additional Saracen/North African input which the Sicilians have was counterbalanced by that Northern Italian input at least as far as placement on a PCA goes.

I touched on that looking at my own results. I've never gotten a "match" with western Sicilians, i.e. at 23andme or Ancestry. However, I've seen other signs of some sort of connection between Sicily, at least the more central and northwestern parts of Sicily, and northwestern Italy. I think it relates back not only to the Lombard settlement, when many Ligurians, Tuscans, Lombards, were settled there, but also to ancient settlement patterns in Sicily. None of that applies to Calabria.

Northeastern Sicily is a bit different. I think they would probably plot closer to Calabrians, as they were less influenced both by the Saracens and the "Lombards", and parts of it, Messina, for example, were settled from Calabria after the major earthquakes there.

As for Campania, I think there is variety there because of the presence of Napoli, where there has been more admixture, and the hinterland, famously near where the expelled Ligures were settled.

Napoli, like northwestern Sicily, may have more "northern" ancestry, including French ancestry, but some expelled Saracens were also settled there, near Salerno, "Saracens" who may have been at least partly native Sicilian.

One just has to look at the variation in Toscana on the PCA above, which had a far less turbulent history, to see how much variation there can be in a single province in Italy. One can see it in Bergamo as well. What is interesting is that if you and Jovialis are representative of Puglia, it is more homogeneous, unless, of course, one of you had your kit used to create the Puglia sample.

Of course, this is just conjecture, although, I hope, based on data and history. I would need lots of samples and the ability to compare them to say anything more certain.

It would be interesting, for example, to plot the samples from this paper on the PCA. They are from northwestern Italy, i.e. the Ligurian hinterland which is now part of Piemonte, an area in the isolated northeast, and Foggia in Puglia.

Maybe Jovialis knows if the samples are available.

This is the paper;
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-019-0551-x

It would also be interesting to see the samples from the Corsica paper on the plot and see how homogeneous, or not, they are...

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/sear...mic+variation+through+whole-genome+sequencing

Unfortunately not, I've actually tired getting them before. It is frustrating that so many sample files are not available for the public. I tired getting the southern Italian samples from Patterson et al. 2012, and Hellenthal et al 2014, but they're not available either.
 
It fits, yes? Your Italian ancestry is from the north?


Indeed, Angela. My paternal grandfather was from San Martino di Lupari (Padova). According to a genealogical work that I commissioned years ago, my paternal family arrived in Veneto from the Bergamo valleys 500 years ago. My paternal grandmother had Ligurian origins, and I think Lombard also. In my maternal family (where my non-European components come from), the European origins are mostly Iberian, although my maternal grandmother had a Neapolitan grandfather.
 
The Patterson one really surprises me given he's Reich Lab.

What a shame. So much for open science.

I think it might be available in the Reich Lab Dataset, actually. However, their files are in an esoteric format that only works with Linux OS. I only know how to make use of BAM files, thanks to WGSextract.

I wish they would just make a version of the samples that are readily available in consumer genomics raw data format. I don't know why it needs to be so convoluted.
 
Distance to:REB
4.83347701West_&_Central_German
4.95185824Dutch
6.29579225English
7.59847353Danish
8.67563831Cornish
9.57625710Norwegian
9.88915568Orcadian
10.20475869South_&_Central_Swedish
10.71087298Irish
11.13971274Austrian
11.59328685French
12.51916131Scottish
13.48188785North_Swedish
17.14010684Czech
17.14166853Hungarian
17.48911744Croatian
17.55203407Kaikavian_Croatian
18.47358655Serbian
18.69249850Slovenian_1
18.84364017SerbianBosnia
19.01156753Portuguese
19.93453787Slovakian_1
20.24430784Spanish
20.68397931Moldavian_1
21.64498787Bulgarian_1
 
Distance to:SAG
4.32234890West_&_Central_German
5.08697356Dutch
6.90034782English
7.27096280Cornish
8.46630970Orcadian
9.03789799Irish
9.26424309Austrian
9.31229295Danish
9.99081078French
10.74583175Norwegian
10.79972222Scottish
11.22898482South_&_Central_Swedish
14.33062804North_Swedish
15.14917820Hungarian
16.21538467Kaikavian_Croatian
16.34956847Croatian
16.37128775Czech
16.83796306Slovenian_1
17.16968841Serbian
17.76750686Portuguese
17.99847146SerbianBosnia
18.64502615Spanish
19.31122472Moldavian_1
19.35190172Bulgarian_1
20.06437141Slovakian_1
 

This thread has been viewed 337652 times.

Back
Top