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Thread: E-a24066

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Guys guys, you can't base anything on 1 instance of y dna especially from a dark past, it doesn't determine who is from where you have to look at the wider picture. That 1 y dna could have come from anywhere as rape or even cheating happens
    It doesn't ofc, just in my case I have chosen to make an issue out of my own paternal ancestry if it is Berendei. In such case I want to revive them at all costs. I don't care if it is Albanian, Byzantine, whatever. I have a problem someone attacking me on another forum, where I can't even respond as registration is not allowed. Had he at least presented the genetic fact that A24066 occurs in Bulgarians, N.Macedonians, Romanians but not in Albanians that might have been OK from my POV.

    His argument about Albanian clans being heterogenous applies only to Albanians, and many of them are indeed all over the place genetically, which shows how many traditions are wrong.. On the other hand Serbian/Montenegrin clans are far more homogenous. On a huge number of people tested in Kuchi for example only their E-BY165837 cluster appears while a million of hg has Kuchi tradition, but only E-V13 for this idiot who wants to gather all E-V13 in Malesia Shkoder area so that all of "his Pelasgian slaves" are gathered in one place. Had he read the article where my clan is mentioned better he would have known that our cluster was not found in Kuchi nor in Kuchi families settled abroad. First sentence says we are the aboriginal population of our village..
    Btw this Popovici tradition also mentions our clan always having "huge number of horses, Ottomans chasing us to take away our horses.."

    So two separate traditions written down mention horses.

    Another tradition by other families about my clan in vicinity that used to circle in 19th century and earlier was that we are of Greek or Byzantine origin. As Greek graves usually signify various old things this most likely means just "very old".

    Long ago I've noticed his constant dissing of E-V13 "Farmers", similarly of some PH908 Serbian admins/moderators for the same reason, and I have attacked them on their forum regarding this. So I am glad he has done this so we can settle some issues. They have no business commenting anything on E-V13..

    lets imagine for a moment he is right, E-V13 are farmers in Illyrian territories. Pelasgians. What would I say?
    R-Z2705, J-L283 pack your bags take your Illyrian language with you and disappear from "Illyrian" E-V13 Western Balkan territories.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    What I will say is v13 has nothing to do with south slavs, they were mostly i2a and r1a people.
    Few have like a few E-L540's.. Also one likely Dacian clade, R-V2896 seems to have spread mostly with Slavs.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Sure, some v13 become slavs early on when they became outnumbered in various regions but as a tribal group v13 is balkan we just don't know for sure which ancient tribes it mostly belonged to
    And that is something I absolutely do not want, usual stray local remnant with early assimilation, like so many others. That is one of default ancestries. But as my own clade occurs on a very broad geographic scale. Two clusters of A24066 around 1000 years old are very broadly dispersed, and also to add Hungarian A24070*. Another reason is that I never have rated neither Slavs nor Paleo-Balkanites much. Slavs descend from some sedentary (so significantly "degenerated") IE groups who mixed up with some primitive Hunter gatherers... The only reason why they successfully spread is the timing and that there were numerous.

    New Z17107+, Z38456- from NE Hungary is with descend from Slovakia where they were they were one of main Hungarian noble houses. One of branches of the old Hungarian noble Hont-Pazman house, the Forgach, another branch Benyi is I-M223, which might fit in the old tradition of their Swabian origin. But Forgach are also very old, dating to 12 th century, nothing to do with Vlachs, likely locals in the area.

    One thing Leki mentioned is how Hungarians E-A19247 share an SNP with Albanian as to signify that Albania is the home of Z17107 which it is not.

    Well we can see now that it is garbage 100 %. They tested huge number of Albanians, tried everything to find some other Z17107's, and yet in Carpathians on a significantly smaller sample of people deep tested there is far more diversity..

    At Rrenjet ofc they write that it is IE arrival into Albania. But this guy still persists with his 10+ years old nonsense..

  2. #52
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    No one gives a shit what a complexed, unstable, pimpled faced moron with identity crisis says or thinks he is. Serious researches rely on ethnographic literature for such matters and come to their conclusions.
    Simply put for others reading this thread, you're a Serb today with possible Albanian - based on your clan affiliation - or Vlah - based on your most distant ancestors name - paternal origin.
    The rest is all in your schizo head.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    unstable,
    I establish the facts, and make a claim. I literally claim basically the same thing for years and nothing other than that. Be it my clan or E-V13 itself. That's called stability.

    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    moron with identity crisis says or thinks he is.
    You obviously do otherwise you would not have started the rockus. And prior to you some of your minions also did. There is no identity crisis within me. Principlewise what I am all about is not something most Serbs, Albanians, Romanians etc. can possibly be about..

    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Serious researches rely on ethnographic literature for such matters and come to their conclusions.
    Ethnographic literature in my case is inconclusive and of little help. The highest authority Lutovac called my family simply "the old population" ref. Bihor i Korita book. without labelling us as Kuchi.


    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Simply put for others reading this thread, you're a Serb today with possible Albanian - based on your clan affiliation - or Vlah - based on your most distant ancestors name - paternal origin.
    I am whatever it suits me at a given time.

    I wouldn't say I am a Serb. I am not a Christian really.. Serbs are ortodox christians who speak Shtokavian, Bosniaks are muslims who speak Shtokavian, Croats are catholics...

    Just to inform you because it is the main reason you and Dema, Derite, Hawk came to troll me because you hate those "bloody Orthodox Christians so much" .. because although you might claim to be nonreligious that is actually the main reason why you hate Serbs, same as Serbs hate you for the same reason.. ofc there are other ethnic issues etc. but that is the main..

    I have to admit that my mothers side which includes Turkish Bey ancestry, and various other notable Ottoman ancestry, that likes alot my paternal side. because Serbs do not like Turkics exactly.. It's hard for a selfidentifying Serb to enthusiastically research Turkic links. But I have explained what I do to my clansmen, and I am pleased to say I have their full support on my path and compliments.

    First find some Albanian who is closer to me than 1000 ybp which is when Albanians were first mentioned and then talk about Albanians.

    Yes personal name of our ancestor is Vlach, not certainly, Paun might be a variant of Paul, shortened form of Pavun. Both names extremely common in the Pešter in late 16th, early 17th century when our ancestor lived, and where our other relatives are. And we do have A24066 in Romania too. However we do not know who he is etc. Might be some Pecheneg.. We'll see..

    However my genetic is not connected to a known Vlachs of Sjenica clan, but they are all R-Z2705. Rather my genetics has clear connection with Bulgarian-derived places, and remember we do have a close cousin in Sofia (karachanak et al, and probably another study)

    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    The rest is all in your schizo head.
    Pechenegs the schizo, the sado-mazo, and so many other things you name it.

    Outside of my head and in the real world once more:
    My close brother clan are Čarovići and therefore I am too Čarovič, and Dugeyinci (karachay Togay, tatar Tugey) from Pečenjevce 200 km to the East.
    Pečenjevce was settled by the Čagroviči Berende clan. Proof? Čekmin part of Pečenjevce, Čagrovac near Pečenjevce. All mentioned in 1498, and in another unpublished census of around 1470.

    Every single historian attributes this village to settlement of the glorious schizo Pechenegs.

    In 1167 three sons of the glorious Çağr were:
    Monachuk
    Toshman
    and the eldest
    Çekman Çağroviç

    ğ is pronounced like gh (similar to h), but in languages such as Serbian it is lost. It can disappear or mutate into g (like in Čagrovac). This mutation into Čagrovac is very important because there is no ambiguity here that this is the Berendei clan.
    There is only one Chekman mentioned in history and that was glorious Chekman Chagrovich. Who must have been among the Berendei who helped Ivan Asen II to take over Bulgarian Empire. As proven by two additional Berende villages nearby just across the border.

    Ivan Asen's son invaded Bijelo Polje in 1254. What unifies my own and our brothers from Pešter genetic results is ultimately Huban born around 1430. Huban comes from the Central Asian Iranic loan into Kipchak meaning pretty. Medieval court Bulgarian name, and ofc remember our Sofia brother andsurely more. We'll throw some party once they get commercially tested.

    Now that I presented you my credentials turn on your brain for a change.


    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    complexed,
    I am worthy progeny of Chekman, Huban..

    PS.
    Ahh thats why for you 1000 TMRCA is the same thing as 2000, 3000, 5000. There are Thaci and there are other Thaci? You can't be both real if your TMRCA is over 1000 ybp. Somebody is anas there.. But for you its the same. No, someone is real and someone is anas..


    Thaci R-Z2705 thought he controls the research of E-V13 until he crossed roads with an E-V13 Pecheneg. Don't be too hard on yourself, Pechenegs annihilated more people in 2 centuries than Serbs, Albanians, Croats put together in 10.. And we ran our schizo state from Volga to Belgrade. And after into central Serbia.

    Besides, I am in contact with various Turks, official channels including knowledgeable people so if they see clear proof here who are you to utter anything??

    Remember my distant Hungarian brother, possible descendant of Maygar chieftain Apor. He also shows where our home is.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 16-12-20 at 03:25.

  4. #54
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    Why do u have to write such long explanations, i don't get it.

    I don't think you are an Albanian but i am also sure you are not Pecheneg as well, some assimilated Vlach maybe.

    As for E-V13, it's very clear from Late Neolithic Bulgarian samples last month leak which were all G2a and Chalcolithic R1b that E-V13 never lived in Balkans before MBA-LBA.

    Going per patterns, it looks like the three most powerful Illyrian tribes Autariates, Dardanii and Ardiae were mostly or exclusively E-V13 very likely.

    For Autariates, atleast their elite was E-V13.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Why do u have to write such long explanations, i don't get it.

    I don't think you are an Albanian but i am also sure you are not Pecheneg as well, some assimilated Vlach maybe.
    If I thought I was Albanian I would have 0 problems with it, I speak basic Albanian (but superb turkish for ex.). Years ago when I took seriously this Kuchi tradition, when some cousin told me of it, I thought yeah I'm a Drekalović until I saw later it made no sense, and DNA result showed E-V13 but 4400 yeas away from them.

    Because I don't talk empty. I can do it far longer.

    My close brother clan are Čarovići and therefore I am too Čarovič, and Dugeyinci (karachay Togay, tatar Tugey) from Pečenjevce 200 km to the East.
    Pečenjevce was settled by the Čagroviči Berende clan. Proof? Čekmin part of Pečenjevce, Čagrovac near Pečenjevce. All mentioned in 1498, and in another unpublished census of around 1470.

    Every single historian attributes this village to settlement of the glorious schizo Pechenegs.

    In 1167 three sons of the glorious Çağr were:
    Monachuk
    Toshman
    and the eldest
    Çekman Çağroviç

    ğ is pronounced like gh (similar to h), but in languages such as Serbian it is lost. It can disappear or mutate into g (like in Čagrovac). This mutation into Čagrovac is very important because there is no ambiguity here that this is the Berendei clan.
    There is only one Chekman mentioned in history and that was glorious Chekman Chagrovich. Who must have been among the Berendei who helped Ivan Asen II to take over Bulgarian Empire. As proven by two additional Berende villages nearby just across the border.

    Ivan Asen's son invaded Bijelo Polje in 1254. What unifies my own and our brothers from Pešter genetic results is ultimately Huban born around 1430. Huban comes from the Central Asian Iranic loan into Kipchak meaning pretty. Medieval court Bulgarian name, and ofc remember our Sofia brother andsurely more. We'll throw some party once they get commercially tested.
    How do you explain this? Only Čarovići in existence among Serbs have same surname as the Berendei clan settled in Pečenjevce where I also have relatives. Only tested person from Pečenjevce is my brother no more than 1000 years away but also no less than say 800. Around Pečenjevce no relatives.

    Dude this is never going to be accident. Further near Ston on Pelješac there is Čarovići toponym to which these Čarovići actually connected themselves. That is related to 1254 event and Bulgarian involvement. Bulgarians were allies of župan Radoslav who held Ston, they tried to topple Serbian ruler. If there is any truth in tradition that Čarovići are related to these Čarovići it is 100 % related to this Bulgarian invasion of Bijelo Polje in 1254.

    And I came to that conclusion before I knew of Čarovići, that 4 years ago my closest match was a Bulgarian, I connected that with the 1254. event.

    Yeah, I'm likely some assimilated Dacian-Getae or Pannonian by the Pechenegs/Berendei. I don't think my ancestors ever spoke Latin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    As for E-V13, it's very clear from Late Neolithic Bulgarian samples last month leak which were all G2a and Chalcolithic R1b that E-V13 never lived in Balkans before MBA-LBA.

    Going per patterns, it looks like the three most powerful Illyrian tribes Autariates, Dardanii and Ardiae were mostly or exclusively E-V13 very likely.

    For Autariates, atleast their elite was E-V13.
    Never lived or in small number yes.

    Autariates ratherwere J-L283, I guess they were J-Z631. What Pribislav told you is true, Glasinac had weak Urnfield. But Ardiaei were Urnfield predominately or totally. Dardanians, plenty of E-V13 yes, but newcomers fro mthe West J-Z631, J-PH1602.

  6. #56
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    How do you explain the Glasinac chariot with water birds then, well late until Late Iron Age.

    The elites in Glasinac were being cremated on a tumuli.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    , you're a Serb today
    When I told all this to several Turks face to face in real life in Turkish. These people know very well who are Pechenegs. They answered me: "so you are a Turk".

    And I have to say I'm a Turkic.
    Devlet Bahceli MHP.jpg

    Which is why I research this in great detail, and I want such link proven 100 %. Regardless I actually do have from my mother side such ancestry too, in any case we're friends, and I speak Turkish pretty good.

    Bosniaks, ah won't troll them I'm sure. For Bosnia I believe it is of importance, some Central Bosnian (real Bosnian) proto-Magyar DNA results, one Jasz, and are these Bessenyei? Kulin founder of Bosnia was quite likely a Bessenyei. Are they connected to that, maybe. I know one thing that cluster doesn't exist in any Serbs tested, or Croats, but it does exist in distant Transylvania. So like various other Bosnians from central Bosnia they can be those arrivals.

    Bosnians are similar to Serbs except some of these clusters. So these can be elements which make Bosnia unique!!!! Proto-Bosnians. Who shaped lots of Bosnian identity.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 13-12-20 at 00:36.

  8. #58
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Also, it looks like Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 very likely descends from Gava.

    Those weird ritual pits from Kapitan Andreevo can be find a parallel in Gava.

    Also, i doubt Cetina is the source of E-V13, it's too late.

    It's very likely Dalmatian Cardial but from those who migrated and formed Butmir Culture in Bosnia then being part of Vucedol and in Bronze Age Nugarev Culture and similar ones in Hungary spreading more North and East.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    How do you explain the Glasinac chariot with water birds then, well late until Late Iron Age.

    The elites in Glasinac were being cremated on a tumuli.
    Glasinac had continuity since Medium Bronze age, the culture Glasinac was connected to in MBA/LBA was directly connected to J-L283 find.

    There was Unrfield influence. Urnfielders tried to take over but it seems they did not succeed mostly. However some may have settled or locals adopted those ways.

    Glasinac has plenty of skeletons, there was cremation but generally inhumation was more common. Now ofc there were some Urnfielders.

    Ardiaei on the other hand were Urnfield, and so were some others. There was strong Urnfield element in Montenegro areas. Especially the south.

    There were many tribes there, I'd have to see in more detail which other tribes were Urnfield. But Ardiaei are very important group. So you may use them as an example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Also, it looks like Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 very likely descends from Gava.

    Those weird ritual pits from Kapitan Andreevo can be find a parallel in Gava.

    Also, i doubt Cetina is the source of E-V13, it's too late.

    It's very likely Dalmatian Cardial but from those who migrated and formed Butmir Culture in Bosnia then being part of Vucedol and in Bronze Age Nugarev Culture and similar ones in Hungary spreading more North and East.
    I believe Gava was dominately E-V13. 70 %, 80, 90 %... Probably some border cultures to Gava too. Yes I read on those pits, and will look into them in more detail.

    Yes V13 could have been present in Pannonia and many other areas. As for Cetina PH1246 resembles it but my theory on that was that 98% of E-V13 has no links with Cetina. Glina III culture I believe was the one who scattered E-V13 all over Carpathians and Pannonia. Because this Glina III Schneckenberg , which was Yamnaya variant, had ties with Dalmatian Cardial element. Before Cetina existed and then they left, after they left Cetina started emerging in fusion with other cultures. But as these Glina III people were very nomadic if they went back to their home and they did, in Carpathains I assumed they just took the E-V13 there and only small element was left in Dalmatia to form Cetina.

    This is something for which there is genetic evidence and archeological evidence. ofc E-V13 could have been there but impossible to know exactly for now. So this Glina III culture is ideal because of time, it corresponds to E-V13 TRMCA. If someone compains of Gava being later etc. this is the explanation, and basically impossible to counter based on evidence.

  11. #61
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    So as explained your trolling really doesn't do anything.. You, and other Albanians trolling me "you are not true Serb" like you troll other Serbs is like saying to me "you're not a true Colombian, Spaniard", so I can't be buzzed by "for not being a real Slavic Serb".. For me to say that I am a Serb is hard and weird. Only in some very secular sense. I do not deny my history though.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 11-12-20 at 01:04.

  12. #62
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    Another member of my family (not close), known journalist in Bosnia.
    She had an interview with Erdogan some time ago. Can't find it. Berendei interviewing Erdogan, I gotta make this a reality 100 %.

    I spent my childhood in Sarajevo from 1992 to 1995. I assure you any experience of war you might have is nothing compared to what was happening there.

    Still I myself keep contacts with Montenegro etc. I initiated them myself.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 17-12-20 at 01:44.

  13. #63
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    I always thought that E-V13 were IE-zed somewhere in Balkans mingling with R1b-Z2103 but those were G2a, and apparently their males were being disfavored or put in some hardships for leaving an offspring.

    To me it looks like E-V13 adopted IE language via female side, during middle or late EBA when their groups were quite small.

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    I think that the group who burned Mycenae were more related to later classical Illyrians, since burials in Argolis and Mycenae contain cremation on tumuli which has a parallel in Western Balkans. Probably E-V13 picked up R1b-Z2103 and J2b2 on Western Balkans and sailed down in Southern Albania and Peloponesse. While the other group who destroyed Hittite Empire was more related to Proto-Thracians, many E-V13 tribes settled on Thrace, while some others crossed the Bosphorus and invaded the Hittite Empire.

    Their world was rather a cruel, world, working mainly as miners and metal-workers, their metal working skills and technology was unmatched by any living group, but their civilization was rather not rich culturally, the Iron Age they brought was rather detested and the past Bronze Age was praised for its colorfulness. But, they paved the way for a new era. The palatial civilizations were gone for good.

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    I think that the Illyrians or atleast the Urnfield group who heavily influenced Illyrians came from Middle Danube Urnfield group while the Thracians received their influence from Gava related horizont. It's very likely that Albanian language is East Urnfield derived considering it has very little Greek influence and relationship. I would say that during the Bronze Age Proto-Albanoids were living somewhere in between Middle Danube groups and Gava culture.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    I think that the Illyrians or atleast the Urnfield group who heavily influenced Illyrians came from Middle Danube Urnfield group while the Thracians received their influence from Gava related horizont. It's very likely that Albanian language is East Urnfield derived considering it has very little Greek influence and relationship. I would say that during the Bronze Age Proto-Albanoids were living somewhere in between Middle Danube groups and Gava culture.
    My distant Z5018 cousin, I'm afraid those of us who look to be Urnfield are not proto-Illyrians..

    I took a detailed look at the situation with great many, especially Pannonian, tribes. From before it is known this Pannonian Illyrian linguistic element was Illyrian but somewhat gradient to something else, likely Venetic.

    And at the sites of many Pannonian tribes, we see around 1000, 900 BC Urnfielders coming in establishing themselves, but then few centuries after 600, 500 BC Glasinac non-cremating J-L283 start coming in and actually come up with upper hand.

    In addition the Messapians who were certainly Illyrian were also hardcore non-Unrfield inhumating non-cremating people..

    So these Pannonians generally are likely to great extent Illyrianized Urnfielders plus mostly J-L283 who Illyrianized them..

    No wonder in Hungary almost all J-L283 is West of Danube. E-V13 more in the Eastern part with solid presence in the West..

    Unrfielders in the West were Venetic like speakers. Their remnant in the Balkans were the Liburnii and Histrii (if Istria is Balkans). Some of these clades like E-Z16988 might be Liburnian related, as they are strong in Croatia, but have some presence in Albania. The answer might be the Liburnian thalassocracy when Liburnians established domination at one period over the Adriatic Sea.

    Urnfield in the West were Venetic, Italic, Estruscan, in the East Daco-Thracian...

    So it seems Glasinac-Mati people did indeed carry the Illyrians on their shoulders. But their original center was MBA Glasinac.. From there they spread everywhere including Albania (Mati). Interestingly in some of these Illyrianized Urnfield sites such as NW Croatia some Basarabi and Thraco-Cimmerian Eastern influences are found. On Glasinac itself. That might be the explanation for some E-V13's..

    Now J-Z631 common in Pannonia and N.Carpathians also makes sense as Glasinac people spreading the Illyrian language...

    There are some R-Z2705 level looking Hungarians who fit nicely into that as well.. I doubt R-Z2705 were Urnfield..

  17. #67
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    Aspurg, i don't agree with you at that point.

    The distinctive Glasinac symbol was the chariot with the water birds, very unique during Late Bronze Age - Early Iron Age among Urnfield-related cultures only, especially among Eastern Urnfielders. I will find it extremely strange a non-Urnfield people to adopt that symbol.

    Glasinac had continuation in burial customs not on other things, there was a change on weapons and other stuffs. Autariates were defeated by the Celts-Gauls and they seeked refugee in Dacia, while some of them were granted land in Greek Macedonia, South-Western Bulgaria. The only ones they pushed was Triballi more to the east, and Ardiae more to the coasts where they were fighting for the salt mines.

    I don't expect all E-V13 to practice cremation btw, Kapitan Andreevo which was full of E-V13 didn't practice cremation, and this culture is from Early Iron Age.

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