E-a24066

@ Aspar

Thanks for that input, I didn't notice this Cuman claim. And it seems quite legit as it refers to Codex Cumanicus. And it seems closer to Bulgarian than Mongol form. Slavicist Wilhelm Tomaschek first made this Mongol connection long time ago. I guess CCum wasn't translated back then. There were many bolyars of Cuman extraction, and alongside this Huban was for ex. certain Chernoglav, this is not the Slavic name that was common, but for example in 1282. the Serbs captured Tatar leader Crna Glava or "black head" so likely direct translation from Karabash. In any case it doesn't look Bulgar as it wasn't attested in Bulgars.

Pechenegs were too more Kipchak than Oghuz from what I've read, especially the Berendei, who were often confused with the Cumans by many authors (though they were different).
EDIT: I found this Cuman "ghob/ghub" in Codex Cumanicus, so indeed it must be from such direction. And also the Mongol ghobay is related to it as they all have the same meaning.

Regarding E-BY5430, ofc for some time it is clear to me their ancestry is from Macedonia. Though they do not quite match this Bulgarian toponym concentration, they are from Pljevlja, according to some claims their ancestor was Sipahi Vojin/his kin, who was ktetor of Holy Trinity monastery in Pljevlja in 1590s. So they seem also like some older family like mine.

On the other hand this particular Bulgarian concentration is on the Southern Peshter area, indeed the very name Pešter is Bulgarian (Serbs use Pećina for cave), some people of my cluster tested are directly from some of these, for example one from Boroštica. Also for example Raždaginja, you see instantly linguistic difference of Bulgaro-Macedonian sht/zhd vs Serb Ć/Đ (ch/dj), there is indeed in Bulgaria river and village with such name.
Also to add Bolyare which doesn't need much explanation, these are mostly concentrated around the mountain I mentioned: Žilindar which seems surely Kipchak Turkic, meaning "snake", one peak of Zhilindar is called "snakes head"/zmijska glava. In 1254. Bulgarian ruler wanted to take the Dalmatia, he had a pact with Dubrovnik and Hum ruler Radoslav (also Nemanjić), and Bulgarian army came to Bijelo Polje, but eventually after short conflict things were back to normal, and Ragusans got what they wanted. Radoslav dissapeared as did the independence of Zachumlia. Serb ruler apparently swore oath of allegiance to Hungarian ruler back then.

I found indication my family were musellems in the early 16th/late 15th century. That was an old Ottoman cavalry order (from the days of Osman), some Christians were recruited, in this instance it should be an indication they were very good with horses (as two traditions of my family claim).

And it seems my own family weren't even vlach by status. Now when you mention greater Balkan influence in Serbs than in Bosnians/Croats, this is indeed due to many factors. One, Vlach migration from the Central Balkans, then some Slavic Y-DNA locals already in 14th century adopted the Vlach status. most descendants of Herzegovina Medieval Vlach katuns have Slavic Y-DNA, however some do have clearly non-Slavic ancestry. Then the Ottomans came, and basically in late 15th century most of Serbs were Vlachs or they were in such status.
Actually most of Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia migrated as Vlach groups with the Ottomans (Serbs from Herzegovina are very old there though). These people had privileges, their leaders were officially sipahis etc. So no wonder especially Bosnian Bosniaks always referred to Serbs as "Vlachs". For Serbs under the Ottomans being of vlach status was advantageous in many ways. Also Nemanjic expansion Eastwards caused mingling with various Shop/Central Balkan groups, largely Serb I-Z17855 became part of Serbian ethnos.
So due to numerous factors Serbs, indeed originally likely similar to Croats became more SE shifted.

Ofc there were those early Bulgarian incursions, per some Serbia was even totally deserted, but also much of this genetic homogeneity in Serbs is for the same reason as in Albanians, tribal culture and domination of stronger tribes over the weaker tribes. Such culture used to be very common in Montenegro, and in Herzegovina little bit earlier. Still much of Serbs trace their ancestry to Herzegovina and Montenegro. Actually Western half of modern Montenegro is Herzegovina. Montenegro was a small core area of Montenegro 300 years ago..


Regarding the Meglen, very interesting, I find them puzzling. So they are closer to Aromanians. I know in the past some have hypothesized they have some Steppe input, as in Moglen both Pechenegs and Cumans settled. There are some Greeks under I-Y125026>Y128714 , they are from Theodorakion village not far from you but I guess they aren't of Moglen ancestry. I-Y125026 occurs in some Serbs, Bulgarians too, so should be Slavic, but there is one Bessenyei from Hungary and also one from anonymous Cumanian sample from Hungary so not sure what's their ancestry, especially as in Todorci though most had Slavic names there were few which looked Turkic. This is a clade likely descended of Daco-Celtic Kotini/Anarti and they expanded largely with Slavs, some likely moved with Cumano-Pechenegs.

Thus far Aromanians seem genetically isolated, even their most common J-L283 clade is still very distant from Albanians.

Yes Shop might have been the starting point for Proto-Romanians, I don't deny some potential earlier presence of some Latin groups in Romanian areas (like Transylvania), but it seems Balkan incomers had great influence.

Regarding Cetina, the did practice cremation combined with inhumation. On the other hand their neighbor culture where J-L283 was found practiced exclusively inhumation, as did their direct descendants such as Glasinac culture. Archaeologists say these two were clearly different populations. Thanks to these inhumation burials of Cetina I believe there is enough material to test these eventually. Now regarding their Tumulus burial, both Cetina and Posušje cultures had it. But it's origin is Glina III, almost identical burials. This sort of burial was totally unknown to the BB's. J-L283 were likely originally Bell Beakeroid derived, and you can see in autosomal profile of EBA/LBA Dalmatians that these people are BB derived not Yamnaya. But cyst Tumulus was imposed by the Yamnaya it seems.

Regarding L51 in Greeks, Dorians could have had the L51 easily, because it was the L51 heavy central European groups who were among the instigators of the LBA collapse. That's no surprise but based on linguistics Greek should be distantly related to Armenian and like Armenians originally Z2103.

Yes I read about those unofficial finds, it will be interesting to see what was the exact context etc. Again Greeks are not so well tested so thus far few of these clades have been identified.
 
FYI, the Montenegrin A24066* fella above those Bosnians that has selected Pecheneg as his ethnicity, per his family tradition they identified with an Albanian clan, that's to some extent predominantly Serbian speaking now. So, they most probably hail from the Albanian tribal regions. As for A19235 Hungarians, there is an Albanian from central Albania above them on Yfull as well.

Firstly I'm not "Montenegrin". I wasn't born there neither my father.. Secondly I guess very few members of my clan consuider themselves Montenegrins. We have nothing to do with them.

We are Medieval Serbian nobility descended of Bulgarian Berendei descended nobility.


How many times do I have to debunk your idiocies Skerdilaid?? (btw haven't you been banned from Anthrogenica but you registered another sock-puppet there) There is no A24066 in Albania, in Kuchi tribal region, Albanian tribal regions and chances of it ever existing there are miniscule.

This family tradition is worthless and made up 100 years ago, the older tradition that is 150 years old makes no mention of Kuqi. Facts: -
1. eldest member of my genetic cluster had a completely foreign Cuman name (literally nobody in the Western Balkan other than him had it of data thus far).
2. Other clans surname from a Bulgarian language derived village who never heard of Kuchi is Pecheneg, only such surname in Serbs. Dates at least to 18th century but onomastic evidence of another village related to it suggests 14th century.
3. As is possibly mine. Because it is similar to one of the most common Pecheneg names. It doesn't have parallels.
4. We have relatives 200 km to the East in a village settled by the Pechenegs or Berendei to be precise
5. The Pecheneg clans name settled there is identical to the surname of another family related to me.

Besides do you know how many different families in the area have Kuchi tradition?? Alot, 10 or more hg's.. Kuchi must have been the most genetically diverse place on the planet..:LOL:

Can your brain comprehend 2+2=4??

A24066>A24049 cluster are old population of Peshter highlands who live there from the 13th century.


Regarding BY4526, the Y20805* Serb is with origin from Shkoder region, North Albania. Same thing with the Y20805* Albanian fella. There is another fella with origin from that region (Kuçi area) that identifies as Bosnian today (from Sanxhak) that will most definitely end up being Y20805* as well. So, you have three fellas from the same region sharing a tmrca of 2400ybp.


Again many Serbs have tradition about descending from Shkoder region, in this instance thus far no such people, albeit unlike my clade his is much tougher to spot. But his closest relative is Bulgarian.


Definitely some variance in that zone with both subclades that in no way shape or form fits with the Slavic movements.

You as a longtime promotor of E-V13 = Pelasgian slaves garbage has no business opening your mouth about E-V13. You haven't got a clue about your own haplogroup, the R-Z2705, let alone others.


What we are now seeing is the death of your E-V13 = Pelasgian garbage which is actually equal to spitting at E-V13. And you are administrator of your dying Albanian bloodlines (Albanians from Macedonia and Kosovo) project. Fortunately people at Rrenjet are far more adept than you are. The only person knowledgeable person about genetics you have is Trojet.

CTS9320 is proto-Thracian, proto-Dacian.


New result from North-East Hungary: Z17107+, Z38456-, no links with others.


Russian Z17107, Z38456-, likely Y130991-
Ukrainian cluster Z17107, Z38456-, likely Y130991+
3 Hungarian clades with no close relation to each other.


Btw A24066 exists in Carpathians as explained, just I have Romanians to thank for the lack of such sample thus far at YFull.

As you haven't got a clue about anything you chose to make personal attacks against me on a forum where I can't respond. CTS9320 and Z17107 were born in Carpathians, deal with it.

And chances are good all of your Albanian Z38456 are Carpi..


There is already one Hungarian Besenyo who is E-V13 so why is this some fuss at all.. For those of you who claim that all E-V13 are Pelasgian slaves from Albania it is. I really feel sorry for those Albanian E-V13+ people who is researching their haplogroup..

I see your post had been thanked by rafc, and Riverman.. LOL

I doubt they would have been thanking it had they seen some of your earlier "jewels" you posted about E-V13.
 
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Yes, Nobility lol. And I am Santa Clause ;)
Fact remains that we have ethnographic literature that confirm what I stated. According to the traditions that still exist among your family, your ancestor came down to Bjelo Polje from Kuqi area, more specifically from the Drekalovici branch (Popovici). Didn't say you were Montenegrin, I just mentioned it because of the flag on Yfull. I simply informed them because your 'Pecheneg' label may throw them off.
Haplogroup discrepancies are very common in all Albanian clans, so Kuqi in this regard is nothing special. I for example as a Thaç don't belong to the Thaçi cluster from the mother land, but that doesn't mean I am Portuguese. What's important here regarding the cluster in question, is that you originate from that zone. The rest of your drivel is irrelevant.
Don't get emotional on me now for doing my homework, my lost shiptar brother ;)
 
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Yes, Nobility lol. And I am Santa Clause ;)
Fact remains that we have ethnographic literature that confirm what I stated. According to the traditions that still exist among your family, your ancestor came down to Bjelo Polje from Kuqi area,

It doesn't matter what recently made up traditions say. He did not come to Bijelo Polje from Kuchi area. My ancestor born in 1570/1580s, died in 1645 being attested in pre Battle of Wiena times of 1683 automatically is extremely unlikely to have arrived from Kuchi or any other Brda region. Anybody with any knowledge knows that very well. His first name also was very Peshterian, most common there at that time, extremely rare in Montenegro, so he was certainly born on Peshter or his father was.

Furthermore my family had in 17th century higher status. Check out what some knowledgeable person said 5 years ago about that Kuchi claim, before DNA.. Because of our wealth he could not have possibly arrived from Kuchi, he must have been in the area for generations..

Genetic results have firmly showed that my family represent the old Medieval population of the Peshter plateau. Families nobody in my family ever expected to be related to came out as genetically close to us. And when WGS tests are done of these it will show 700 years TMRCA in the area. Without my clade ever existing.

The you "conclude" any E-V13 is basically Albanian even if his closest link to Albanians is Early Iron Age. And in this case closest link to Kuchi is Early Bronze Age.

You use that idiotic reasoning for your own 1 man 500 AD cluster. But you search for the SNP after SNP.. But ofc as you dys385=11-11 admin and "patron" of the E-V13 "Pelasgian slaves" all E-V13 is same to you they are.

Based on our results my closest SNP genetic links are:
- 500 ybp Peshter Plateau (Berendei surname) from Bulgarian village,
-- 700 ybp Pedhter plateau Bulgarian derived village
--- Vranje region from a scientific paper likely 700-800 ybp, might even be Bulgarian from the places such as Bosilegrad
---- Pirot area, Serbia-Bulglaria border area, again it is not excluded this individual is Bulgarian
---- North Macedonian, likely NE of the country
----- two families from Pečenjevce, founded by the Pechenegs, who are strongest in the village numerically, and no evidence to suggest they are any migrants unlike various other families who are.
----- ethnic Bulgarian from Sofia
----- person from Vojvodina, unknown ethnicity.

Bosniaks in my clade have a certain relative likely around 1000 years away in Cluj-Napoca capital of Transylvania.

And this more distant Hungarian..

How can one here draw any notion of ethnic Albanian connection here is insanity, also as amongst 1000 commercially tested Albanians and among more than 1000 scientific samples of Albanians A24066 does not appear once..

Yes!! Nobility!:grin: My family were among very very few wealthy non-muslim families in this whole region of Rascia which was under firm Ottoman control. And Ottoman documents bring light on this clan of ours. People who were fief holding crhistian sipahis in 1526 before the battle of Mohacs. The only non-muslims in our region. Again to achieve that your ancestor had to convert to Islam, and even so whether your own ancestors were sipahis or just some peasants is totally another matter..

Evidence points to Bulgarian derived people existing there in pre-Ottoman time. It seems Serbian rulers gave them southern portion of the Peshter as their land, which is where so much of this unusual topology occurs.

Just illustrates how my family after the battle of Wiena struggled for survival for the first time in centuries, when the new wave of new muslim migrants took control of the area.

from Kuqi area, more specifically from the Drekalovici branch (Popovici).

The progenitor of Popovici branch of the Drekalovici lived after our certain ancestor.:LOL::LOL: :LOL: You took it wrong. A member of my family 7 years claimed to descend of Vujadinovici from Medun, not Popovici. Vujadinovici a known Kuchi family came to existance 100 years after our family, which is why years ago I immediately attacked this member of my family in arguments, 7 years ago before the DNA.. I said impossible, and any link with Drekalovici is also impossible as our ancestor was a contemporary of the sons of Drekalovici founder Lale Drekalov, and he had no such son.


Didn't say you were Montenegrin, I just mentioned it because of flag on Yfull. I simply informed them because your 'Pecheneg' label may throw them off.

I have right to carry it also because I am one of the most knowledgeable on the topic of the Pecheneg language, other than my direct paternal ancestry claim which is valid.

Haplogroup discrepancies are very common in all Albanian clans, so Kuqi in this regard is nothing special. I for example as a Thaç don't belong to the Thaçi cluster from the mother land, but that doesn't mean I am Portuguese. What's important here regarding the cluster in question, is that you originate from that zone. The rest of your drivel is irrelevant.
Don't get emotional on me now for doing my homework, my lost shiptar brother ;)

You argument is ridiculous.

My ancestors were attested as sipahis in the Ottoman system in 16th, 17th century. Your Albanian ilk had to mass convert to Islam to gain protection and ability to harass non-muslims at will which is how you managed to spread yourself around Kosovo, that is a fact.

And actually it seems this is how my own ancestors adopted the Kuchi tradition, there is huge number of muslim Kuchi in the area, few Ortodox ones and those were bad days for Christians

Which is why you went on this rant, when I appeared your degenerated patronizing ways on the topic of E-V13 began to crumble. Have you ever wondered who reduced your 1 man 500 AD cluster to nothing in Iron Age. Might have been some E-V13 actually.

There are plenty of other E-V13 you can address, the Kuchi, Bjelopavlici etc. And for many of them Albanian origin is not a problem. Ultimately the main reason Serbs and Albanians are enemies is because of religious background. And many Albanians dislike catholic Albanians.

So as great many Macedonian and Kosovo Albanians whose identity is more religiously based crave for being Ottoman (like Dema), or Turk, shouldn't you be happy that some E-V13 lineage has likely ethnic affinity to people who formed large part of your identity?? :grin: Who bested the Albanians and Serbs.

Your average E-V13 is just a guy making his way throughout centuries.

Remember my forefather is Huban.

You know Bosniaks told me they are all 5'11" to 6'9", and when the Pecenjevce tested appeared, he also boasted of them being a tall family. He said they were taller than others.

Compare that to Kelmendi who settled Peshter in early 1700s, carrying E-Z16988 and R-Z2705. Who were known to have been very short people. (too much of EEF, or it could be some Antiquity era MENA :LOL:).

Again I'm a big strong dude.
Btw Bosniaks might be related to the founder of the Bosnian state Kulin who was likely a Pecheneg per some historians. So it is important for me for that reason too to bring more light. Bosniaks from central Bosnia have no Vlach ancestry.

Actually despite some claims, Pechenegs were strong and taller per archeological remains. As I've said being big was important for the steppe savages, as you must impose yourself upon so many conquered peoples.

The only relation we have is through proto-Albanian Z38456>BY4461 at the time they left Carpathians/Pannonia for the Balkans. Which could have been 2800 ybp, but also 1800 ybp with Carpi or Costoboci.

If these people end up Carpian, they would be an ideal explanation for those theories connecting Albanian language to Dacians.

Deal with it dude: 6 Z17107+, Z38456- clades in Carpathians. Plus some likely basal E-BY4465's in Szekely and Romanians. I am pretty sure Szekely will split E-Y161799, if Romanian ends up at E-Y97307* level or E-BY4465 they are basically Carpi, unless some upstream is found, even if it is they are "suspicious". You are on a very thin ice here and you have more business trying to salvage them from the Carpian jaws than to comment on clades which have nothing to do with your ethnicity.. :LOL:

Why is that wrong?? Some Costoboci/Carpi invasion remnants slapped around some Illyrian remnants in Albanian mountains and Albanians were born. In any case E-BY4465 did not live in the Balkans 3000 ybp as you would have it. Deal with it.
 
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My surname in current form is 400 years old+, and our clan name is 535 years old at least.

My family 400+ years ago settled on a land which belonged to 1) a powerful Turkish family since the 15th century 2) and monastery whose wealthy benefactors we were at the time. This Ottoman family had very strong ties to the sipahi clan (fief holding cavalry recognized by the Ottomans) from Peshter which existed in all villages where our genetic relatives are found, and even in one a branch of my own family was found.

It is beyond ludicrous that anyone other than this clan could have settled this land. No muslim would have dared to settle the land of family of commander of Palace Guards of the sultan Mehmed II, who conquered Constantinople. They were the strongest family in the area until at least 17th century.

Because of this links this person was possibly member of my family as well. But that is more speculative.


Just these argument makes any further discussion on the topic of my clans origin completely pointless...

That all places where this clan was found have Bulgarian etymology, as does Peshter itself, that their eldest member was carrying Bulgarian Cuman/Kipchak name of course has its genetic backing with a Bulgarian from Sofia. Also the TMRCA of Bulgarian and N.Macedonian is certainly above the TMRCA of my own branch in Bijelo Polje/Pešter region.

I am alot more Bulgarian by paternal ancestry than most Bulgarians.

So I'm afraid facts speak against your average katunar or peasant status of my family. That irks the Leki who is just a simple man trying to survive in the mountains. Whereas I am descendant of fief holders for centuries.. That irks some some Serbs too. Very Good. I want you to irk you, because I dislike peasantry and peasants, commoners. Since childhood the dislike of commoners was instilled in me. So for me researching Y-DNA history is a competition, who is better?? As by psycho-physical features I am better (which is why for ex. I always dominate in any sort of discussion based on logic, reasoning etc., happened here and elsewhere many times), it is important to be better in Y-DNA, it is an important confirmation of my worldview that worthy descendants of those born to be above must take their place. ofc worthy people of any sort can rise in hierarchy.

In my ideal society no more than 2 % of a population would have a "right to vote".

Generally I do not care for the ancestors of my own who were not of some quality, status etc. Ethnicity or anything else is of secondary importance. For people like Berendei ethnicity is the status. Great many of them were some nobility.

So Leki, to even fanthom being Albanian, I'd have to be descended of Arianiti or alike. But no, I am Charovich genetically connected to a Pecheneg village settled by the Berende Chahrovich clan. Serbs hate "h" sounds of of course it got lost here.. This "h" also got completely lost in modern Turkish, in few Turkic languages it still exists.

Actually one reason I have it Pecheneg at YFull is also not to irritate my relatives from Pečenjevce. Serbs from those areas don't like Bulgarians usually. Even though many are related to them, and were Bulgarians before the battle of Velbužd.

So my cluster exists in Pečenjevce and in MNE/SRB we have Pecheneg surname and I am in full right to have it as "Pecheneg" there.

So the Ottomans conquered the region and one of few Christian people they left some authority to were actually descendants of Berendei. Ataturk would be pleased with that.

Leki you failed to respond to any of my points, ever, which speaks volumes of you as you just respond mentioning the same thing all over again, and you fail to respond to my response to your point. On a serious forum you'd be banned ofc. You are a troll obviously, but my patience is also superhuman, and you will tire before me, no matter how times you repeat something I will come back at you or anyone else one more time than you. Mine will be last. Because I always win.:) And even when I happen to lose I still win..
 
Bjelo Polje from Kuqi area, more specifically from the Drekalovici branch (Popovici).

To explain this. One branch of my family in central Serbia had this Popovici claim, but they did not mention Kuchi at all! But in early 17th century and late 16th century on the Peshter plateau, in tribal group I surely descend of, as we have still members of my own family in that village still living there, occurred a surname Popovici, this is of course completely unrelated to any Popovici of Kuchi. But also this family claimed to have arrived there from a village which was named that way only in early 19th century while they claim to have migrated alot before, so I am bit suspicious. So this surname could have circulated in some branches.

So Drekalovici Vujadinovici claim is the only elaborate Kuchi claim, it is complete nonsense. Anyone else in my family just had vaguely Kuchi, so it seems this is where this false tradition was born.


The oldest reliable tradition of my family has been mentioned in a book about Djindjic brotherhood, who became the best man of ours in first half of 19th century, and this tradition has no mention of any Kuchi whatsoever. Actually it mentions the "ancestor riding a horse". So you see Arber katunar friend, horses were very important in my family. Again testament to what we are.


Another interesting thing is generally Albanians, Serbs, Croats etc. are dishonest, double standard people who always support their ethnicity even when they are 100 % wrong. For me that is "honorless", but that is who you are. Same goes for many many others.


One of most known members of my family, close associate of Arkan. Arkan went in 1995 to Cazinska Krajina to fight for Fikret Abdic. Here in this video he said of 505th brigade from Buzim that though his opponents they were awesome fighters, extremely brave. When he was killed in mafia engagement few years ago, actually member of Zivinicke Ose, Bosniak special forces unit wrote somewhere that although they were on the opposite sides, he was a real solder, not a sissy.

And now often Bosniaks post this video as one tribute to 505th..

It's good to see my clan members are so brutally honest like I am. I hope it runs in the family, and of course that is an indication we are not of you. When I researched Cuman culture in Hungary, I found that brutal honesty was one of their main traits. Many people have told me that they appreciate my honesty.

I instantly recognize intentions of most of you after few sentences you utter, while many of you are very sneaky, dishonest, with double and triple standards. Part of my own ethnocentrism is to hold my own to account. I believe this is one trait of conquering, offensive peoples.. Untypical of Yugos and Albanians (and many others) which is again part of the reason you were never able to form some longstanding entities.

Again, I don't think I ever wrote an unsubstantiated post here, or elsewhere even when I'm not fully serious. For me that's "dishonorable", for you and most it is not. I take offence at you dismissing my thesis because I never ever claim anything without substance, one dismisses/ridicules usually no substance material. I go to the lengths to demonstrate substance, you show no substance, and yet you say the opposite. Albanian concept of "honor", extend that to Yugo too. Again the difference between a peasant/katunar ilk of yours and fief holder horse rider ilk of mine.(y)

Tend your sheeps Sheeptar.

 
Let me end just with the wishes of good luck to Kubrat Pulev against Joshua, even though he is probably going to lose. Yet is is somebody who looks like a Bulgar. Good to see some more Bulgar clades appear in Bulgaria. On Peshter we have a possible occurrence of Bulgar name "Okor", Bulgar chief Okorsis, so I certainly hope I can have some connection there too. Regardless my own fathers helped create Second Bulgarian state in a big way.



And little bit related to me. I am so happy Murat Gassiev finally made his debut. I claim Pecheneg and in the Nart sagas, Pechenegs are mentioned as Bædzænæg which I have in my profile, as my Ossetian friends told me when I tested one of them and discovered a new E-CTS9320* branch in Ossetians, the presence of CTS9320 in Ossetians, the only linguistics heirs to Sarmato-Alans, one people with the most superior way of life ever to have existed, and because they assimilated something of their superiority in big part Turks were also superior. And CTS9320 is one of the most high quality if not the most high quality E-V13 lineage. It was very important to find this result in the highest of populations.


And suitably "Albanian Tyson" was his first opponent (he used to be decent some time ago) and he ended up the way nonsense of these Albanian and other enemies of E-V13 is ending up and will end up. Fortunately on an internet forum in a debate, as in real life, this is how some of you would end up once you refuse to behave rationally and stick with with the triple-standard degeneracy. With new E-CTS9320 results, with Ancient Thracian results, they are going to fall apart, and they are going to bow before the E-V13 proto-Dacians/Thracians. They fall apart any time they face me in a debate. They are no match for a worthy son of Bolyars..
 
Man, go take your pills or something.
Can't be bothered with all that nonsense. If you weren't so dishonest about your background, I wouldn't have had to intervene. When I see horseshit, I will call it as such.
 
Can't be bothered with all that nonsense. If you weren't so dishonest about your background,

My background has no connection whatsoever with your people, you claiming it does is what is dishonest to the Nth degree..

Your people (Albanians/proto-Albanians) formed 1000-1400 ybp. Closest genetic link of mine to your people is 2900 ybp. Provide 1000-1400 ybp genetic link as without it there is no Albanian connection.. This is Iron Age not some Medieval links.

You my likely gracile weak chinned friend could be biologically dishonest (partially genetically because of genetic recombination).. The problem is having people like you (and many other varieties dominated by negative traits) in any sort of debate. 95 % of people with your craniofacial and body traits would behave exactly as you behave.. And that is a problem not here on this forum, but everywhere on this planet..

I wouldn't have had to intervene. When I see horseshit, I will call it as such.

Well my ancestors lived with horses and I prefer horseshit to the sheepshit and goatshit.(y)

I remember long time ago how Albanians prostrated themselves before me just to gain my approval. Those Albanians wanted to follow the path of quality.
 
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Guys guys, you can't base anything on 1 instance of y dna especially from a dark past, it doesn't determine who is from where you have to look at the wider picture. That 1 y dna could have come from anywhere as rape or even cheating happens

What I will say is v13 has nothing to do with south slavs, they were mostly i2a and r1a people. Sure, some v13 become slavs early on when they became outnumbered in various regions but as a tribal group v13 is balkan we just don't know for sure which ancient tribes it mostly belonged to
 
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Guys guys, you can't base anything on 1 instance of y dna especially from a dark past, it doesn't determine who is from where you have to look at the wider picture. That 1 y dna could have come from anywhere as rape or even cheating happens

It doesn't ofc, just in my case I have chosen to make an issue out of my own paternal ancestry if it is Berendei. In such case I want to revive them at all costs. I don't care if it is Albanian, Byzantine, whatever. I have a problem someone attacking me on another forum, where I can't even respond as registration is not allowed. Had he at least presented the genetic fact that A24066 occurs in Bulgarians, N.Macedonians, Romanians but not in Albanians that might have been OK from my POV.

His argument about Albanian clans being heterogenous applies only to Albanians, and many of them are indeed all over the place genetically, which shows how many traditions are wrong.. On the other hand Serbian/Montenegrin clans are far more homogenous. On a huge number of people tested in Kuchi for example only their E-BY165837 cluster appears while a million of hg has Kuchi tradition, but only E-V13 for this idiot who wants to gather all E-V13 in Malesia Shkoder area so that all of "his Pelasgian slaves" are gathered in one place. Had he read the article where my clan is mentioned better he would have known that our cluster was not found in Kuchi nor in Kuchi families settled abroad. First sentence says we are the aboriginal population of our village..
Btw this Popovici tradition also mentions our clan always having "huge number of horses, Ottomans chasing us to take away our horses.."

So two separate traditions written down mention horses.

Another tradition by other families about my clan in vicinity that used to circle in 19th century and earlier was that we are of Greek or Byzantine origin. As Greek graves usually signify various old things this most likely means just "very old".

Long ago I've noticed his constant dissing of E-V13 "Farmers", similarly of some PH908 Serbian admins/moderators for the same reason, and I have attacked them on their forum regarding this. So I am glad he has done this so we can settle some issues. They have no business commenting anything on E-V13..

lets imagine for a moment he is right, E-V13 are farmers in Illyrian territories. Pelasgians. What would I say?
R-Z2705, J-L283 pack your bags take your Illyrian language with you and disappear from "Illyrian" E-V13 Western Balkan territories.

What I will say is v13 has nothing to do with south slavs, they were mostly i2a and r1a people.

Few have like a few E-L540's.. Also one likely Dacian clade, R-V2896 seems to have spread mostly with Slavs.

Sure, some v13 become slavs early on when they became outnumbered in various regions but as a tribal group v13 is balkan we just don't know for sure which ancient tribes it mostly belonged to

And that is something I absolutely do not want, usual stray local remnant with early assimilation, like so many others. That is one of default ancestries. But as my own clade occurs on a very broad geographic scale. Two clusters of A24066 around 1000 years old are very broadly dispersed, and also to add Hungarian A24070*. Another reason is that I never have rated neither Slavs nor Paleo-Balkanites much. Slavs descend from some sedentary (so significantly "degenerated") IE groups who mixed up with some primitive Hunter gatherers... The only reason why they successfully spread is the timing and that there were numerous.

New Z17107+, Z38456- from NE Hungary is with descend from Slovakia where they were they were one of main Hungarian noble houses. One of branches of the old Hungarian noble Hont-Pazman house, the Forgach, another branch Benyi is I-M223, which might fit in the old tradition of their Swabian origin. But Forgach are also very old, dating to 12 th century, nothing to do with Vlachs, likely locals in the area.

One thing Leki mentioned is how Hungarians E-A19247 share an SNP with Albanian as to signify that Albania is the home of Z17107 which it is not.

Well we can see now that it is garbage 100 %. They tested huge number of Albanians, tried everything to find some other Z17107's, and yet in Carpathians on a significantly smaller sample of people deep tested there is far more diversity..

At Rrenjet ofc they write that it is IE arrival into Albania. But this guy still persists with his 10+ years old nonsense..
 
No one gives a shit what a complexed, unstable, pimpled faced moron with identity crisis says or thinks he is. Serious researches rely on ethnographic literature for such matters and come to their conclusions.
Simply put for others reading this thread, you're a Serb today with possible Albanian - based on your clan affiliation - or Vlah - based on your most distant ancestors name - paternal origin.
The rest is all in your schizo head.
 
unstable,

I establish the facts, and make a claim. I literally claim basically the same thing for years and nothing other than that. Be it my clan or E-V13 itself. That's called stability.

moron with identity crisis says or thinks he is.

You obviously do otherwise you would not have started the rockus. And prior to you some of your minions also did. There is no identity crisis within me. Principlewise what I am all about is not something most Serbs, Albanians, Romanians etc. can possibly be about..

Serious researches rely on ethnographic literature for such matters and come to their conclusions.

Ethnographic literature in my case is inconclusive and of little help. The highest authority Lutovac called my family simply "the old population" ref. Bihor i Korita book. without labelling us as Kuchi.


Simply put for others reading this thread, you're a Serb today with possible Albanian - based on your clan affiliation - or Vlah - based on your most distant ancestors name - paternal origin.

I am whatever it suits me at a given time.

I wouldn't say I am a Serb. I am not a Christian really.. Serbs are ortodox christians who speak Shtokavian, Bosniaks are muslims who speak Shtokavian, Croats are catholics...

Just to inform you because it is the main reason you and Dema, Derite, Hawk came to troll me because you hate those "bloody Orthodox Christians so much" .. because although you might claim to be nonreligious that is actually the main reason why you hate Serbs, same as Serbs hate you for the same reason.. ofc there are other ethnic issues etc. but that is the main..

I have to admit that my mothers side which includes Turkish Bey ancestry, and various other notable Ottoman ancestry, that likes alot my paternal side. because Serbs do not like Turkics exactly.. It's hard for a selfidentifying Serb to enthusiastically research Turkic links. But I have explained what I do to my clansmen, and I am pleased to say I have their full support on my path and compliments.

First find some Albanian who is closer to me than 1000 ybp which is when Albanians were first mentioned and then talk about Albanians.

Yes personal name of our ancestor is Vlach, not certainly, Paun might be a variant of Paul, shortened form of Pavun. Both names extremely common in the Pešter in late 16th, early 17th century when our ancestor lived, and where our other relatives are. And we do have A24066 in Romania too. However we do not know who he is etc. Might be some Pecheneg.. We'll see..

However my genetic is not connected to a known Vlachs of Sjenica clan, but they are all R-Z2705. Rather my genetics has clear connection with Bulgarian-derived places, and remember we do have a close cousin in Sofia (karachanak et al, and probably another study)

The rest is all in your schizo head.

Pechenegs the schizo, the sado-mazo, and so many other things you name it.

Outside of my head and in the real world once more:
My close brother clan are Čarovići and therefore I am too Čarovič, and Dugeyinci (karachay Togay, tatar Tugey) from Pečenjevce 200 km to the East.
Pečenjevce was settled by the Čagroviči Berende clan. Proof? Čekmin part of Pečenjevce, Čagrovac near Pečenjevce. All mentioned in 1498, and in another unpublished census of around 1470.

Every single historian attributes this village to settlement of the glorious schizo Pechenegs.

In 1167 three sons of the glorious Çağr were:
Monachuk
Toshman
and the eldest
Çekman Çağroviç

ğ is pronounced like gh (similar to h), but in languages such as Serbian it is lost. It can disappear or mutate into g (like in Čagrovac). This mutation into Čagrovac is very important because there is no ambiguity here that this is the Berendei clan.
There is only one Chekman mentioned in history and that was glorious Chekman Chagrovich. Who must have been among the Berendei who helped Ivan Asen II to take over Bulgarian Empire. As proven by two additional Berende villages nearby just across the border.

Ivan Asen's son invaded Bijelo Polje in 1254. What unifies my own and our brothers from Pešter genetic results is ultimately Huban born around 1430. Huban comes from the Central Asian Iranic loan into Kipchak meaning pretty. Medieval court Bulgarian name, and ofc remember our Sofia brother andsurely more. We'll throw some party once they get commercially tested.

Now that I presented you my credentials turn on your brain for a change.


complexed,

I am worthy progeny of Chekman, Huban..

PS.
Ahh thats why for you 1000 TMRCA is the same thing as 2000, 3000, 5000. There are Thaci and there are other Thaci? You can't be both real if your TMRCA is over 1000 ybp. Somebody is anas there.. But for you its the same. No, someone is real and someone is anas..


Thaci R-Z2705 thought he controls the research of E-V13 until he crossed roads with an E-V13 Pecheneg. Don't be too hard on yourself, Pechenegs annihilated more people in 2 centuries than Serbs, Albanians, Croats put together in 10.. And we ran our schizo state from Volga to Belgrade. And after into central Serbia.

Besides, I am in contact with various Turks, official channels including knowledgeable people so if they see clear proof here who are you to utter anything??

Remember my distant Hungarian brother, possible descendant of Maygar chieftain Apor. He also shows where our home is.
 
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Why do u have to write such long explanations, i don't get it.

I don't think you are an Albanian but i am also sure you are not Pecheneg as well, some assimilated Vlach maybe.

As for E-V13, it's very clear from Late Neolithic Bulgarian samples last month leak which were all G2a and Chalcolithic R1b that E-V13 never lived in Balkans before MBA-LBA.

Going per patterns, it looks like the three most powerful Illyrian tribes Autariates, Dardanii and Ardiae were mostly or exclusively E-V13 very likely.

For Autariates, atleast their elite was E-V13.
 
Why do u have to write such long explanations, i don't get it.

I don't think you are an Albanian but i am also sure you are not Pecheneg as well, some assimilated Vlach maybe.

If I thought I was Albanian I would have 0 problems with it, I speak basic Albanian (but superb turkish for ex.). Years ago when I took seriously this Kuchi tradition, when some cousin told me of it, I thought yeah I'm a Drekalović until I saw later it made no sense, and DNA result showed E-V13 but 4400 yeas away from them.

Because I don't talk empty. I can do it far longer.

My close brother clan are Čarovići and therefore I am too Čarovič, and Dugeyinci (karachay Togay, tatar Tugey) from Pečenjevce 200 km to the East.
Pečenjevce was settled by the Čagroviči Berende clan. Proof? Čekmin part of Pečenjevce, Čagrovac near Pečenjevce. All mentioned in 1498, and in another unpublished census of around 1470.

Every single historian attributes this village to settlement of the glorious schizo Pechenegs.

In 1167 three sons of the glorious Çağr were:
Monachuk
Toshman
and the eldest
Çekman Çağroviç

ğ is pronounced like gh (similar to h), but in languages such as Serbian it is lost. It can disappear or mutate into g (like in Čagrovac). This mutation into Čagrovac is very important because there is no ambiguity here that this is the Berendei clan.
There is only one Chekman mentioned in history and that was glorious Chekman Chagrovich. Who must have been among the Berendei who helped Ivan Asen II to take over Bulgarian Empire. As proven by two additional Berende villages nearby just across the border.

Ivan Asen's son invaded Bijelo Polje in 1254. What unifies my own and our brothers from Pešter genetic results is ultimately Huban born around 1430. Huban comes from the Central Asian Iranic loan into Kipchak meaning pretty. Medieval court Bulgarian name, and ofc remember our Sofia brother andsurely more. We'll throw some party once they get commercially tested.

How do you explain this? Only Čarovići in existence among Serbs have same surname as the Berendei clan settled in Pečenjevce where I also have relatives. Only tested person from Pečenjevce is my brother no more than 1000 years away but also no less than say 800. Around Pečenjevce no relatives.

Dude this is never going to be accident. Further near Ston on Pelješac there is Čarovići toponym to which these Čarovići actually connected themselves. That is related to 1254 event and Bulgarian involvement. Bulgarians were allies of župan Radoslav who held Ston, they tried to topple Serbian ruler. If there is any truth in tradition that Čarovići are related to these Čarovići it is 100 % related to this Bulgarian invasion of Bijelo Polje in 1254.

And I came to that conclusion before I knew of Čarovići, that 4 years ago my closest match was a Bulgarian, I connected that with the 1254. event.

Yeah, I'm likely some assimilated Dacian-Getae or Pannonian by the Pechenegs/Berendei. I don't think my ancestors ever spoke Latin.

As for E-V13, it's very clear from Late Neolithic Bulgarian samples last month leak which were all G2a and Chalcolithic R1b that E-V13 never lived in Balkans before MBA-LBA.

Going per patterns, it looks like the three most powerful Illyrian tribes Autariates, Dardanii and Ardiae were mostly or exclusively E-V13 very likely.

For Autariates, atleast their elite was E-V13.

Never lived or in small number yes.

Autariates ratherwere J-L283, I guess they were J-Z631. What Pribislav told you is true, Glasinac had weak Urnfield. But Ardiaei were Urnfield predominately or totally. Dardanians, plenty of E-V13 yes, but newcomers fro mthe West J-Z631, J-PH1602.
 
How do you explain the Glasinac chariot with water birds then, well late until Late Iron Age.

The elites in Glasinac were being cremated on a tumuli.
 
, you're a Serb today

When I told all this to several Turks face to face in real life in Turkish. These people know very well who are Pechenegs. They answered me: "so you are a Turk".

And I have to say I'm a Turkic.
Devlet Bahceli MHP.jpg

Which is why I research this in great detail, and I want such link proven 100 %. Regardless I actually do have from my mother side such ancestry too, in any case we're friends, and I speak Turkish pretty good.

Bosniaks, ah won't troll them I'm sure. For Bosnia I believe it is of importance, some Central Bosnian (real Bosnian) proto-Magyar DNA results, one Jasz, and are these Bessenyei? Kulin founder of Bosnia was quite likely a Bessenyei. Are they connected to that, maybe. I know one thing that cluster doesn't exist in any Serbs tested, or Croats, but it does exist in distant Transylvania. So like various other Bosnians from central Bosnia they can be those arrivals.

Bosnians are similar to Serbs except some of these clusters. So these can be elements which make Bosnia unique!!!! Proto-Bosnians. Who shaped lots of Bosnian identity.
 
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Also, it looks like Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 very likely descends from Gava.

Those weird ritual pits from Kapitan Andreevo can be find a parallel in Gava.

Also, i doubt Cetina is the source of E-V13, it's too late.

It's very likely Dalmatian Cardial but from those who migrated and formed Butmir Culture in Bosnia then being part of Vucedol and in Bronze Age Nugarev Culture and similar ones in Hungary spreading more North and East.
 
How do you explain the Glasinac chariot with water birds then, well late until Late Iron Age.

The elites in Glasinac were being cremated on a tumuli.

Glasinac had continuity since Medium Bronze age, the culture Glasinac was connected to in MBA/LBA was directly connected to J-L283 find.

There was Unrfield influence. Urnfielders tried to take over but it seems they did not succeed mostly. However some may have settled or locals adopted those ways.

Glasinac has plenty of skeletons, there was cremation but generally inhumation was more common. Now ofc there were some Urnfielders.

Ardiaei on the other hand were Urnfield, and so were some others. There was strong Urnfield element in Montenegro areas. Especially the south.

There were many tribes there, I'd have to see in more detail which other tribes were Urnfield. But Ardiaei are very important group. So you may use them as an example.
 
Also, it looks like Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 very likely descends from Gava.

Those weird ritual pits from Kapitan Andreevo can be find a parallel in Gava.

Also, i doubt Cetina is the source of E-V13, it's too late.

It's very likely Dalmatian Cardial but from those who migrated and formed Butmir Culture in Bosnia then being part of Vucedol and in Bronze Age Nugarev Culture and similar ones in Hungary spreading more North and East.

I believe Gava was dominately E-V13. 70 %, 80, 90 %... Probably some border cultures to Gava too. Yes I read on those pits, and will look into them in more detail.

Yes V13 could have been present in Pannonia and many other areas. As for Cetina PH1246 resembles it but my theory on that was that 98% of E-V13 has no links with Cetina. Glina III culture I believe was the one who scattered E-V13 all over Carpathians and Pannonia. Because this Glina III Schneckenberg , which was Yamnaya variant, had ties with Dalmatian Cardial element. Before Cetina existed and then they left, after they left Cetina started emerging in fusion with other cultures. But as these Glina III people were very nomadic if they went back to their home and they did, in Carpathains I assumed they just took the E-V13 there and only small element was left in Dalmatia to form Cetina.

This is something for which there is genetic evidence and archeological evidence. ofc E-V13 could have been there but impossible to know exactly for now. So this Glina III culture is ideal because of time, it corresponds to E-V13 TRMCA. If someone compains of Gava being later etc. this is the explanation, and basically impossible to counter based on evidence.
 

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