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Thread: How can I learn to accept my haplogroup results...

  1. #26
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Yes, I saw these R-L2->R-FGC13617 men yesterday in the FTDNA Project. They seem close to each other. The MDKA of the Greek had a name that looks Italian(ized?).
    The origin of the Greek FGC13617 samples from Corfu is pretty interesting. They are all from the same family that seems to be descended from one of the noble houses of Corfu that established themselves during Venetian rule. I couldn't find much in regards to their ethnic origins, they may be of local Greek or Italian (Venetian) origin. It is possible that they originally came from Heraklion, Crete, as it is mentioned that a branch of the Armeni from Heraklion moved to Corfu. Seems like some members of this family were born in Dalmatia and were actually Catholic Christians. Some of the early members of this family also had pretty Italian-sounding names, though some had Greek names as well. I guess it's best to ask members of this family directly in regards to their ethnic origin. https://www.geni.com/projects/Armenis-family/54347

    In regards to the Montenegrin, he is from Herzeg Novi but I read some information stating that his family arrived from the Moraca region of Eastern Montenegro during the 17th Century.
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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    What really stands out to me from that Roman census of the rebels is how few inhabitants there were in this rather large geographical area. Which to me it points out how easy it would be to invade with a relatively small raiding party let's say 10-20,000 men and how large of a genetic footprint it would have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    The origin of the Greek FGC13617 samples from Corfu is pretty interesting. They are all from the same family that seems to be descended from one of the noble houses of Corfu that established themselves during Venetian rule. I couldn't find much in regards to their ethnic origins, they may be of local Greek or Italian (Venetian) origin. Seems like some members of this family were born in Dalmatia and were actually Catholic Christians. Some of the early members of this family also had pretty Italian-sounding names, though some had Greek names as well. I guess it's best to ask members of this family directly in regards to their ethnic origin. https://www.geni.com/projects/Armenis-family/54347

    In regards to the Montenegrin, he is from Herzeg Novi but I read some information stating that his family arrived from the Moraca region of Eastern Montenegro during the 17th Century.
    That link has a map of Corfu ..................Corfu was under Venice for over 500 years and was never lost to the ottomans

    The surname with s at end makes it greek......without the s , there are umbrian families ............with an o ending Armenio......from lazio and if it was originally Arman it would be venetian .........so surnames change in migration to adapt/fit into the country they went to
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    That link has a map of Corfu ..................Corfu was under Venice for over 500 years and was never lost to the ottomans

    The surname with s at end makes it greek......without the s , there are umbrian families ............with an o ending Armenio......from lazio and if it was originally Arman it would be venetian .........so surnames change in migration to adapt/fit into the country they went to
    It's mentioned on the website that a certain Alberto Armeno (nicknamed Albano Armenio) from Corfu took part in the Battle of Zonchio in 1499 as an admiral of the Venetian fleet. He was killed during the fighting.

    It then mentions Alberto's brother, Alvise Armeno who was also called Aloysius Armenus and Luigi Armeno. It states that he was the Venetian governor of Corfu and was even present during the battle preparations for the Battle of Lepanto in 1521.

    Can't accurately say if these brothers belonged to the same family as the FGC13617 Armeni, but it is certainly possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    That link has a map of Corfu ..................Corfu was under Venice for over 500 years and was never lost to the ottomans

    The surname with s at end makes it greek......without the s , there are umbrian families ............with an o ending Armenio......from lazio and if it was originally Arman it would be venetian .........so surnames change in migration to adapt/fit into the country they went to
    Yep Corfu was under Venetian rule for 500+ years and some of the local inhabitants converted to Roman Catholicism to advance their family's status. In some of the other islands that were occupied by Venetians such as Syros and Naxos, Roman Catholics had a special protected status under the Ottoman occupation such as reduced taxes and special trading easements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Venice only held shkodra for about 80 years...1396 to about 1478......it was then ruled by the ottomans for over 300 years...

    The oeiginal people where dalmatians....ragusa area seperated the 2 dalmatian lands
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    It's mentioned on the website that a certain Alberto Armeno (nicknamed Albano Armenio) from Corfu took part in the Battle of Zonchio in 1499 as an admiral of the Venetian fleet. He was killed during the fighting.

    It then mentions Alberto's brother, Alvise Armeno who was also called Aloysius Armenus and Luigi Armeno. It states that he was the Venetian governor of Corfu and was even present during the battle preparations for the Battle of Lepanto in 1521.

    Can't accurately say if these brothers belonged to the same family as the FGC13617 Armeni, but it is certainly possible.
    Ok
    Alvise is venetian for Luigi

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by shinyDust View Post
    When I was patiently waiting for my results I was expecting either EV-13 or J2b2-L283 or some R1b L23-BY116
    Or anything else typically albanian.
    But I got haplogroup R1b u152-L2
    Whaaaat.. I feel so betrayed and like an outsider haha.
    I really wished to have EV 13. Isn't that the typical albanian haplogroup.
    I still can't believe my results..
    It's a bit depressing
    What does this imply about my origins..
    If you want I change my Y-DNA Haplogroup for yours, no problem.

  8. #33
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    'Y-DNA Haplogroup does not matter or is relevant at all' But it will be the only thing less finite that leaves its offspring, everything else will be erased in a few generations. To suspect that the Y-Haplogroup inheritance has been highly likely to come from a foreign (colonizer) rapist must be somewhat frustrating, and have the obligation to transfer it to your offspring, too.

    That probably does not matter because we all have that, but it is not to carry that mark on the forehead marked with fire.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dou View Post
    If you want I change my Y-DNA Haplogroup for yours, no problem.
    Have some pride..lol you are who you are.
    Species adapt to their environment,
    and those who do so best (the fittest) survive and prosper the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dou View Post
    'Y-DNA Haplogroup does not matter or is relevant at all' But it will be the only thing less finite that leaves its offspring, everything else will be erased in a few generations. To suspect that the Y-Haplogroup inheritance has been highly likely to come from a foreign (colonizer) rapist must be somewhat frustrating, and have the obligation to transfer it to your offspring, too.

    That probably does not matter because we all have that, but it is not to carry that mark on the forehead marked with fire.
    you forget that his R1b was also spread by rape and could also have been introduced in the balkans by a rapist. very likely actually. not to mention that not only the conquerors and raiders raped women but also the natives.
    anyways you are taking this too serious. be who you are, don't look at your or other peoples ancestry.

  11. #36
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    Well, the haplogroup R1b is a majority in Europe, making it more difficult to detect possible colonizing rapists and they are mostly too far away, very different happens with that same haplogroup in the Americas and know who they were. But you're right that anyone could be, but ...

    That probably does not matter because we all have that, but it is not to carry that mark on the forehead marked with fire.

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    A/ R1b-L2 has been spread through millenia at many places of wider Central Europe.
    B/ It is important to know the subclades of R1b-L2 - this information could help to narrow the place of origin at least to 2000-3000 years ago.
    C/ It is very "populist" to mark R1B-L2 as "Roman", "Venetian" etc.
    D/ R1b-L2 has longer history than Roman Empire (and we should not forget that it probably came to Northern Italy as a foreign haplogroup from the Northeast) - maybe :)
    E/ R1b-L2 is also present in Northern Slovakia and Southern Poland - it may have a connection with "Celtic" populations of Kotini (Cotini - documented archeologically as well as in written documents of that time) and well known Quadi, no need for Roman Soldiers coming to rape Kotinis women :) - although, Marcus Aurelius was personally in Northern Carpathians while based in Carnuntum and did write some literature there as well - so am I his a very lost son?

    Conclusion: Any person should give an explanations only after having BIG-Y (for example), or at least knowing deeper subclades of his / her Y-DNA or mtDNA. It is very unwise connecting R1b-L2 with any particular succesful population of the past (we all R1b-L2 are nor Romans nor Celts) - the substrata is older, probably.

    F/ It is a very foolish and even stupid talking about "rape", "rapist" populations in connection with haplogroups... especially in the deep history, where we do not know real events. It is said (only because of a very stron presence between the current EU populations), that R1b came with the power, force, theat R+b bearers were "rapist" etc. It is such a stupidity... maybe there were a very different patterns why R1b is relatively succesful (more boys than girls born, diseases of other groups, historical events... - of course the cause of rape is a common historical ).
    All this popular theory of "rape" in connection with haplogroups reminds me bookstores nowadays - if you want to sell the book well and quickly just write the word "f.ck" in the title and it will be sold immediately - because this word is somehow IN with "intelligent" readers - I have seen on the shelves at least five books with those titles yesterday :)

    Further conclusion: There were not only marine routes to nowadays Kosovo / Albania (although it seems to sound logical at the first thinking). We can not exclude that intensive "rapist" were haplogroups I or E or (add yours) throughout history as well, but more girls were born than boys :). This is a joke, of course, not a theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinmkp View Post
    A/ R1b-L2 has been spread through millenia at many places of wider Central Europe.
    B/ It is important to know the subclades of R1b-L2 - this information could help to narrow the place of origin at least to 2000-3000 years ago.
    C/ It is very "populist" to mark R1B-L2 as "Roman", "Venetian" etc.
    D/ R1b-L2 has longer history than Roman Empire (and we should not forget that it probably came to Northern Italy as a foreign haplogroup from the Northeast) - maybe :)
    E/ R1b-L2 is also present in Northern Slovakia and Southern Poland - it may have a connection with "Celtic" populations of Kotini (Cotini - documented archeologically as well as in written documents of that time) and well known Quadi, no need for Roman Soldiers coming to rape Kotinis women :) - although, Marcus Aurelius was personally in Northern Carpathians while based in Carnuntum and did write some literature there as well - so am I his a very lost son?

    Conclusion: Any person should give an explanations only after having BIG-Y (for example), or at least knowing deeper subclades of his / her Y-DNA or mtDNA. It is very unwise connecting R1b-L2 with any particular succesful population of the past (we all R1b-L2 are nor Romans nor Celts) - the substrata is older, probably.

    F/ It is a very foolish and even stupid talking about "rape", "rapist" populations in connection with haplogroups... especially in the deep history, where we do not know real events. It is said (only because of a very stron presence between the current EU populations), that R1b came with the power, force, theat R+b bearers were "rapist" etc. It is such a stupidity... maybe there were a very different patterns why R1b is relatively succesful (more boys than girls born, diseases of other groups, historical events... - of course the cause of rape is a common historical ).
    All this popular theory of "rape" in connection with haplogroups reminds me bookstores nowadays - if you want to sell the book well and quickly just write the word "f.ck" in the title and it will be sold immediately - because this word is somehow IN with "intelligent" readers - I have seen on the shelves at least five books with those titles yesterday :)

    Further conclusion: There were not only marine routes to nowadays Kosovo / Albania (although it seems to sound logical at the first thinking). We can not exclude that intensive "rapist" were haplogroups I or E or (add yours) throughout history as well, but more girls were born than boys :). This is a joke, of course, not a theory.
    L2 could be originally from central europe and snp L2 would be formed in Austria on the italian instead of the german side

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinmkp View Post
    A/ R1b-L2 has been spread through millenia at many places of wider Central Europe.
    B/ It is important to know the subclades of R1b-L2 - this information could help to narrow the place of origin at least to 2000-3000 years ago.
    C/ It is very "populist" to mark R1B-L2 as "Roman", "Venetian" etc.
    D/ R1b-L2 has longer history than Roman Empire (and we should not forget that it probably came to Northern Italy as a foreign haplogroup from the Northeast) - maybe :)
    E/ R1b-L2 is also present in Northern Slovakia and Southern Poland - it may have a connection with "Celtic" populations of Kotini (Cotini - documented archeologically as well as in written documents of that time) and well known Quadi, no need for Roman Soldiers coming to rape Kotinis women :) - although, Marcus Aurelius was personally in Northern Carpathians while based in Carnuntum and did write some literature there as well - so am I his a very lost son?

    Conclusion: Any person should give an explanations only after having BIG-Y (for example), or at least knowing deeper subclades of his / her Y-DNA or mtDNA. It is very unwise connecting R1b-L2 with any particular succesful population of the past (we all R1b-L2 are nor Romans nor Celts) - the substrata is older, probably.

    F/ It is a very foolish and even stupid talking about "rape", "rapist" populations in connection with haplogroups... especially in the deep history, where we do not know real events. It is said (only because of a very stron presence between the current EU populations), that R1b came with the power, force, theat R+b bearers were "rapist" etc. It is such a stupidity... maybe there were a very different patterns why R1b is relatively succesful (more boys than girls born, diseases of other groups, historical events... - of course the cause of rape is a common historical ).
    All this popular theory of "rape" in connection with haplogroups reminds me bookstores nowadays - if you want to sell the book well and quickly just write the word "f.ck" in the title and it will be sold immediately - because this word is somehow IN with "intelligent" readers - I have seen on the shelves at least five books with those titles yesterday :)

    Further conclusion: There were not only marine routes to nowadays Kosovo / Albania (although it seems to sound logical at the first thinking). We can not exclude that intensive "rapist" were haplogroups I or E or (add yours) throughout history as well, but more girls were born than boys :). This is a joke, of course, not a theory.
    you are right. but if someone like Dou has the opinion that his haplogroup was introduced by raping conquerors, while R1b was spread completely innocent, it's save to tell him, that he is wrong. not only about the spread of R1b but also about the spread of his E. i think he is glorifying ad turning a blind eye on other europeans past while seeing the devil in the moors and he is taking it too serious. i wonder would he say the same thing if his haplogroup was I1 from germanic invaders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinmkp View Post
    A/ R1b-L2 has been spread through millenia at many places of wider Central Europe.
    B/ It is important to know the subclades of R1b-L2 - this information could help to narrow the place of origin at least to 2000-3000 years ago.
    C/ It is very "populist" to mark R1B-L2 as "Roman", "Venetian" etc.
    D/ R1b-L2 has longer history than Roman Empire (and we should not forget that it probably came to Northern Italy as a foreign haplogroup from the Northeast) - maybe :)
    E/ R1b-L2 is also present in Northern Slovakia and Southern Poland - it may have a connection with "Celtic" populations of Kotini (Cotini - documented archeologically as well as in written documents of that time) and well known Quadi, no need for Roman Soldiers coming to rape Kotinis women :) - although, Marcus Aurelius was personally in Northern Carpathians while based in Carnuntum and did write some literature there as well - so am I his a very lost son?

    Conclusion: Any person should give an explanations only after having BIG-Y (for example), or at least knowing deeper subclades of his / her Y-DNA or mtDNA. It is very unwise connecting R1b-L2 with any particular succesful population of the past (we all R1b-L2 are nor Romans nor Celts) - the substrata is older, probably.

    F/ It is a very foolish and even stupid talking about "rape", "rapist" populations in connection with haplogroups... especially in the deep history, where we do not know real events. It is said (only because of a very stron presence between the current EU populations), that R1b came with the power, force, theat R+b bearers were "rapist" etc. It is such a stupidity... maybe there were a very different patterns why R1b is relatively succesful (more boys than girls born, diseases of other groups, historical events... - of course the cause of rape is a common historical ).
    All this popular theory of "rape" in connection with haplogroups reminds me bookstores nowadays - if you want to sell the book well and quickly just write the word "f.ck" in the title and it will be sold immediately - because this word is somehow IN with "intelligent" readers - I have seen on the shelves at least five books with those titles yesterday :)

    Further conclusion: There were not only marine routes to nowadays Kosovo / Albania (although it seems to sound logical at the first thinking). We can not exclude that intensive "rapist" were haplogroups I or E or (add yours) throughout history as well, but more girls were born than boys :). This is a joke, of course, not a theory.
    Well, if we said, say, that certain I1 in Sicily could have been taken there by Normans, we would not be suggesting I1 originated in Normandy. So I didn't mark R-L2 as Venetian, and I don't believe the other guys marked it as Roman or Gaul. The origin of R-L2 per se was not being discussed. The focus was on who might have taken it to Albania, which is indeed an open question.
    I certainly agree that knowing the subclade is important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyDust View Post
    When I was patiently waiting for my results I was expecting either EV-13 or J2b2-L283 or some R1b L23-BY116
    Or anything else typically albanian.
    But I got haplogroup R1b u152-L2
    Whaaaat.. I feel so betrayed and like an outsider haha.
    I really wished to have EV 13. Isn't that the typical albanian haplogroup.
    I still can't believe my results..
    It's a bit depressing
    What does this imply about my origins..
    Haplogroup says NOTHING about autosomal genetics. It's amazing how people do drama for nothing.

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    What is your final SNP, have you done BigY/WGS or SNP pack? Also what are your closest relatives and what is your TMRCA with them? Also do you have any relative closer then GD 5-6 on 37 or 67 markers? After this informations i would be probably able to make something out of it. You being R1b-L2 and being Albanian is not that strange. Question is, is it more distant migration like Celts/Romans or more recent like Saxons, Francs or something like that. Best regards!

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Regarding on how to learn to accept, i will tell you only this: there is no weak haplogroup, there are only weak individuals, and they can belong to any haplogroup.

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