why EPF2431 is rare

[Elaishousse]

Welcome all I want to ask why Y DNA EPF2431 is rare we are know this branch is found in some regions of the Maghreb, Mali, Chad, Spain, Portugal, Britain, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, and The Gambia and orgin this branch is north africa
And thank

[kingjohn]

it was found in some remains though not so ancient but still .....

1) Villa Magna‏
‏

E-V12 (1180-1010 ybp)
E-V257 (720-570 ybp)


source:

https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...6/708.abstract


2) El Maraute (Muslim)‏

E-CTS6444 (1100-900 ybp)

source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6436108/

[kingjohn]

here we go
someone uploaded R53 to yfull

R53, Villa Magna, 1280-1430CE (Late Medieval) - E-V257



https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y10561/



source:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708

[Gilgamesh]

Welcome all I want to ask why Y DNA EPF2431 is rare we are know this branch is found in some regions of the Maghreb, Mali, Chad, Spain, Portugal, Britain, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, and The Gambia and orgin this branch is north africa
And thank

Not too much rare, on FTDNA haplotree, 43 sample from different nationalities, 40 from unknown origin (no displayed flags by sample's owners) :

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...;name=E-PF2431

34 samples on Yfull : https://yfull.com/tree/E-PF2431/

[kingjohn]

SEper114 Conq. elite 10. (2nd half) U4 E1b1b1b1b1~ E-FGC18894*(xZ36214,FGC18990,PF2443^)


cemetery: Sandorfalva -eperjes




source:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.19.476915v1


p.s
he was autosomally 100% european ( no east asian , mongolid admixture at all )
though he might be descendent of a roman auxilary soldier
by his direct paternal line who arrived to pannonia in roman times

[kingjohn]

I forgot this remain ( not that ancient but still)
Plague victim individual south germany
ELW029 is E-FGC18981

Source:

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/38/10/4059/6277411

[real expert]

I forgot this remain ( not that ancient but still)



Plague victim individual south germany
ELW029 is E-FGC18981

Source:

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/38/10/4059/6277411

Hi kingjohn,

do you know whether the hp E1b1a was ever found in ancient Levant? Personally, I can't remember any study who detected E1b1a in that region during the BA or among the Natufians. However, Razib Khan in this podcast says that E1b1a was pretty common among ancient Levantines. If I recall the genetic papers on BA Canaanites and the Natufians correctly that wasn't the case at all. Thus, my impression is that he was conflating E1b1b with E1b1a. What do you think?


Here's the clip.

timestamp: 18:40-26:25


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9yreKBlwlU

[capisan]

HI Natufians was E1b1b not E1b1a
E1b1a is very High in Sub shara africa

[kingjohn]

Hi kingjohn,
do you know whether the hp E1b1a was ever found in ancient Levant? Personally, I can't remember any study who detected E1b1a in that region during the BA or among the Natufians. However, Razib Khan in this podcast says that E1b1a was pretty common among ancient Levantines. If I recall the genetic papers on BA Canaanites and the Natufians correctly that wasn't the case at all. Thus, my impression is that he was conflating E1b1b with E1b1a. What do you think?

Here's the clip.

timestamp: 18:40-26:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9yreKBlwlU

It wasn't
E1b1b-e-z830 was among natufians and ppnb levant farmers
E1b1a is common in west africa ( as caspian said)
But there is some more lower % of e1b1a in north africa
and from there to iberia and even corsica
There is 1 muslim remain from granada who date to 1100Ad who belong to e1b1a...

P.s
Cases of e1b1a in south tyrol, reutte north tyrol, and germany should be older probably roman period

[real expert]

It wasn't
E1b1b-e-z830 was among natufians and ppnb levant farmers
E1b1a is common in west africa ( as caspian said)
But there is some more lower % of e1b1a in north africa
and from there to iberia and even corsica
There is 1 muslim remain from granada who date to 1100Ad who belong to e1b1a...
P.s
Cases of e1b1a in south tyrol, reutte north tyrol, and germany should be older probably roman period

Thanks for the reply, I was befuddled by some answers of Razib K., especially when he talked about E1b1a.
Besides, he also didn't mention that J1 was the dominant hp of the BA and IA Canaanites, although people were interested to know which hp was typical for the ancient Israelites/Canaanites.

Nevertheless, Khan usually makes a very good job when breaking down DNA findings for laypeople, but he was a bit disappointing in that podcast. He also made the weird statement that Southern Levant belongs to Africa and that the Canaanites/ ancient Levantine groups were diverse. In fact, they were pretty much homogeneous and exhibited only subtle differences among them.

[kingjohn]

SEper114 Conq. elite 10. (2nd half) U4 E1b1b1b1b1~ E-FGC18894*(xZ36214,FGC18990,PF2443^)
been uploaded to yfull

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FGC19010*/


p.s
nice in yfull live with italian sample R53 ( from moots paper)

[sharenorth]

The mutation PF2431+ marks the E-PF2431 branch of the human family tree. In the world, it is an uncommon Y chromosomal clade of paternal lineages. E-PF2431 is divided into two subclades: Y10561 and PF2423. It is M81's sibling branch, PF2431, which was found by Paolo Francalacci (2011). E-PF2431 is a Y-DNA Haplogroup E1b1b subclade. Later on, it was discovered that E1b1b represents the Y-DNA Haplogroup of Edomites, Esau's descendants. As a result, Esau and his forefathers were responsible for the expansion of that specific haplogroup.

[capisan]

The mutation PF2431+ marks the E-PF2431 branch of the human family tree. In the world, it is an uncommon Y chromosomal clade of paternal lineages. E-PF2431 is divided into two subclades: Y10561 and PF2423. It is M81's sibling branch, PF2431, which was found by Paolo Francalacci (2011). E-PF2431 is a Y-DNA Haplogroup E1b1b subclade. Later on, it was discovered that E1b1b represents the Y-DNA Haplogroup of Edomites, Esau's descendants. As a result, Esau and his forefathers were responsible for the expansion of that specific haplogroup.

....................