the origin of al Andalus

@Ygorcs @RegioX
Dear fellows, I think that it’s very, but very cool these our little divergences about the ‘sweet’ style. Doce de leite or Dulce de Leche. Doesn’t matter. Our country is really big. We need to visit ourselves more. I love that diversity.
Cheers :)
 
Regio X said:
It's very similar then.

You posted this image:
https://receitadevovo.com.br/gbau/sistema/receitas/img/doce-de-leite-em-calda.jpg

If we go to the recipe of the above (https://receitadevovo.com.br/receitas/doce-de-leite-em-calda), it says:
"5 ovos batidos ligeiramente"
Click to expand...

Interesting, so it looks exactly as we sometimes call "doce de leite queimado" ("burned") here, and the texture seems to be very similar (is it creamy despite the harder balls in its midst, though?), but I wonder if it also tastes the same. Is it also less sugary and more milky than the "doce de leite" you know?

Another cultural contrast that I didn't see coming. Brazil is really diverse, many countries unified in one only nation. :-D

But the first question remains: who really created it first?
 
Duarte said:
@Ygorcs @RegioX
Dear fellows, I think that it’s very, but very cool these our little divergences about the ‘sweet’ style. Doce de leite or Dulce de Leche. Doesn’t matter. Our country is really big. We need to visit ourselves more. I love that diversity.
Cheers :)
Click to expand...

Agreed. By the way my dream internal tourism trip is to Minas Gerais. I have only visited cities in Ceará (of course, it's where I was born), Pernambuco, Rio Grande do Norte, Pará and Rio Grande do Sul so far (a few hours in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo inside the airport don't really count). But Minas Gerais is definitely the state I am most curious to visit in Brazil. Let's hope I'll have this dream fulfilled sooner rather than later... after the pandemic, of course. lol
 
Ygorcs said:
Agreed. By the way my dream internal tourism trip is to Minas Gerais. I have only visited cities in Ceará (of course, it's where I was born), Pernambuco, Rio Grande do Norte, Pará and Rio Grande do Sul so far (a few hours in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo inside the airport don't really count). But Minas Gerais is definitely the state I am most curious to visit in Brazil. Let's hope I'll have this dream fulfilled sooner rather than later... after the pandemic, of course. lol
Click to expand...

Ceará is very rich. Splendid culture. I know almost the entire coast of Ceará. Unfortunately I don’t know the place that had been nominated as the most beautiful beach in the world: [FONT=&quot]Jericoacoara[/FONT]. If God wants, I will know yet. (y)
 
@Duarte
Indeed. Brazil is very diverse.
By the way, my first trip with my wife was to Minas Gerais, and the last two were to Northeast (Pernambuco and Alagoas). :)
I've never been in Ceará, but I intend to visit it, of course. My siblings know it well, and certainly loved it.

@Ygorcs
You should visit Minas. It's really great!
As for the doce de leite, yes, ambrosia is not that sweet, and the "balls" are not exactly creamy. But it's very soft, of course, and delicious.
Regarding the origin, Wikipedia says ambrosia is Iberian, but who knows!
A place in Rio Grande do Sul well known by its Portuguese sweets is Pelotas.

http://docesdepelotas.org.br/site/

https://gauchazh.clicrbs.com.br/com...la-historia-dos-doces-de-pelotas-9802695.html
 
ratchet_fan said:
Those pics are making me hungry. Any insights on the origin though?
Click to expand...

@ratchet_fan

Milk sweet


The dulce de leche (Spanish) or doce de leite (Portuguese) is a sweet milk-based and sugar and traditional in many countries of Latin America . It is usually made by boiling milk with sugar or cooking condensed milk , being used in candies and other sweet foods, such as cakes , cookies or ice creamand in some places, it is enjoyed with toast or used as a filling for churros .
The most common variations of the sweet are pasty and solid (which can be cut into bars or pieces), which differ in consistency.

Source

Milk candy origin is uncertain, but is linked to the rapid expansion in the production of sucrose from sugarcane in the Iberian Atlantic islands, in the fifteenth century , and in Brazil , Central Americaand Caribbean from the sixteenth century and the possibility of its use for milk preservation . As a first sweetener of large-scale production, the sugar cane is now used in the conservation of various organic products, including milk of cow or goat, giving rise to products similar to current dulce de leche, pasty or solid, throughout Latin America and in certain Iberian locations.
An Argentine patriotic version claims that it was invented by Juan Manuel de Rosas , an Argentine politician from the 19th century . He would be preparing some hot milk on a winter afternoon when someone knocked on the door . He forgot the pot on the fire , giving rise to the dulce de leche. [ 1 ]

Regional variations

In Brazil , the candy is produced on an industrial scale by companies that benefit from dairy products, in addition to artisanal production, when it is sold by small brands. In Argentina , the most popular brands are La Serenísima and Sancor , while in Venezuela , the sweet is traditionally made in the city of Coro , where it is sold pure or with chocolate(dulce de leche con chocolate). In Mexico , it is called cajeta because of the small wooden boxes in which the candy is sold. In this country, the candy is made with half cow 's milk and half milk ofgoat [ 2 ] .
In France , confiture de lait is also very popular, especially in the Normandy region and can be flavored with hazelnuts or chocolate.

Record Brazil

In August 2014, the city of Ipanema recorded the record for the country's biggest milk sweet when preparing the 507.5 kg treat. The fact was registered and certified by RankBrasil and the candy was distributed in the edition of the city's Cheese Festival [ 3 ] .

Other names



References



Source: Portuguese Wikipedia

https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doce_de_leite



 
ratchet_fan said:
@Duarte

I have heard that story. However, I have all heard of Turkic and SE Asian origins.

If you understand Spanish

https://www.telam.com.ar/notas/2016...ulce-de-leche-no-es-un-invento-argentino.html
Click to expand...

Yes. I understand and read Spanish, so well as my own native Portuguese. Thank you for the link. The interviewee in the report says that the ‘dulce de leche’ was already consumed in Southeast Asia in ancient times and that it would have passed through the Philippines and then reached Acapulco, Mexico, after crossing the Pacific Ocean.

The production of ‘dulce de leche’ in Minas Gerais, Brazil, aimed to take advantage of large surplus amounts of milk, not consumed 'in natura' or in the production of cheese and other milk derivatives.

Just to poke our dear neighbors here in South America: I know this story in which ‘Los Hermanos’ claim for themselves the invention of sweet of milk. It may be, but a country that does not produce a single gram of cane sugar is the inventor of ‘dulce de leche’ seems still strange for me. Brazil is the largest producer and exporter of sugar on the planet. But you can also argue that Switzerland and Belgium don't even produce a gram of cocoa and make the best chocolate in the world. Under that argument, I would be forced to agree with ‘Los Hermanos’ since one thing is not related to the other, lol.

Cheers ;)
 
Duarte said:
Yes. I understand and read Spanish, so well as my own native Portuguese. Thank you for the link. The interviewee in the report says that the dulce de leche was already consumed in Southeast Asia in ancient times and that it would have passed through the Philippines and then reached Acapulco, Mexico, after crossing the Pacific Ocean.

Just to poke our dear neighbors here in South America: I know this story in which ‘Los Hermanos’ claim for themselves the invention of sweet of milk. It may be, but a country that does not produce a single gram of cane sugar is the inventor of ‘dulce de leche’ seems still strange for me. Brazil is the largest producer and exporter of sugar on the planet. But you can also argue that Switzerland and Belgium don't even produce a gram of cocoa and make the best chocolate in the world. Under that argument, I would be forced to agree with ‘Los Hermanos’ since one thing is not related to the other, lol.
Cheers ;)
Click to expand...

I have my doubts on a SE Asian origin. What is the name of this sweet in SE Asia? Also how do we know it wasn't independently invented in France or Spain or Argentina.

This guy says it goes back to 16th century Indonesia.

https://translate.google.com/transl...che-es-originario-de.html&prev=search&pto=aue
 
Anybody else know about the origin? I researched the Indonesian thing and oculdn't find anything.
 
"Originally the dulce de leche was eaten and prepared in Indonesia, in Southeast Asia, and from there it was taken to the Philippine Islands around the 6th century," Balmaceda said.


At that time, the Philippine Islands were under the Spanish crown, so the Philippine sailors of the Pacific exported the 'delicacy' to America, especially to the Acapulco area, Mexico.


"And from there, the dulce de leche began to multiply throughout the continent, each producing its own version"

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/sociedad/en-donde-nacio-realmente-el-dulce-de-leche-nid1941420

In the Spanish networks the version is this.
 
Carlos said:
"Originally the dulce de leche was eaten and prepared in Indonesia, in Southeast Asia, and from there it was taken to the Philippine Islands around the 6th century," Balmaceda said.


At that time, the Philippine Islands were under the Spanish crown, so the Philippine sailors of the Pacific exported the 'delicacy' to America, especially to the Acapulco area, Mexico.


"And from there, the dulce de leche began to multiply throughout the continent, each producing its own version"

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/sociedad/en-donde-nacio-realmente-el-dulce-de-leche-nid1941420

In the Spanish networks the version is this.
Click to expand...

This story seems likely to you? I think it is European personally. Condensed milk is from France. Not hard to figure out to boil it imo.
 
The version seems credible to me for the data it offers.

Condensed milk, I imagine, has also had great success worldwide; although I do not know it at all. In Spain at least it is a very integrated product that you already consider your own. With the fad of slimming diets, perhaps younger generations have somewhat forgotten it, perhaps in more urban areas, but in southern Spain it is normal to find it in bars as an alternative to coffee with milk, in this case with condensed milk in less quantity. Of course, I love it, also for desserts.
 
Carlos said:
The version seems credible to me for the data it offers.

Condensed milk, I imagine, has also had great success worldwide; although I do not know it at all. In Spain at least it is a very integrated product that you already consider your own. With the fad of slimming diets, perhaps younger generations have somewhat forgotten it, perhaps in more urban areas, but in southern Spain it is normal to find it in bars as an alternative to coffee with milk, in this case with condensed milk in less quantity. Of course, I love it, also for desserts.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any data on the Indonesian origin. If you read about this good on Dutch, Indonesian, Malaysian and Filipino wikipedia there is not mention of anything similar to dulce de leche. On the other hand condensed milk was invented in France (like a lot of food products) so a European origin seems more likely.

The French have confiture de last.
The Russians have varenaya sgushenka.
Also the Norwegians have two similar products.
- Prim/Mossmor (made from whey):
358112.jpg

-Gomme (made from curdled sour milk)
gomme+p%C3%A5+skive+blogg.jpg
 
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ratchet_fan said:
I didn't see any data on the Indonesian origin. If you read about this good on Dutch, Indonesian, Malaysian and Filipino wikipedia there is not mention of anything similar to dulce de leche. On the other hand condensed milk was invented in France (like a lot of food products) so a European origin seems more likely.
Click to expand...

The Manila Galleon, also called Nao de China, was the name by which the Spanish ships that crossed the Pacific Ocean once or twice a year between Manila (Philippines) and the ports of New Spain in America, mainly Acapulco, were known. Bahía de Banderas (Nayarit), San Blas (Nayarit) and Cabo San Lucas (Baja California Sur). The name of the galleon varied according to the destination city.

The service was opened in 1565 by the Spanish sailor and friar Andrés de Urdaneta, after discovering the tornaviaje or route back to New Spain through the Pacific Ocean, thanks to the east-facing Kuroshio current

The other great Spanish trade route was that of the Fleet of the Indies that crossed the Atlantic Ocean between Veracruz, Cartagena de Indias, Portobelo, Havana and Seville or Cádiz. Part of the eastern merchandise of the Manila Galleon landed in Acapulco were in turn transported by land to Veracruz, where they embarked in the Indian fleets bound for Spain. For this reason, the ships that sailed from Veracruz were loaded with merchandise from the East from the commercial centers of the Philippines, plus the precious metals and natural resources of Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeón_de_Manila


I see "dulce de leche" and its expansion in this context and moment I could not tell you why, but on this specific occasion I am convinced by this version
 
Carlos said:
The Manila Galleon, also called Nao de China, was the name by which the Spanish ships that crossed the Pacific Ocean once or twice a year between Manila (Philippines) and the ports of New Spain in America, mainly Acapulco, were known. Bahía de Banderas (Nayarit), San Blas (Nayarit) and Cabo San Lucas (Baja California Sur). The name of the galleon varied according to the destination city.

The service was opened in 1565 by the Spanish sailor and friar Andrés de Urdaneta, after discovering the tornaviaje or route back to New Spain through the Pacific Ocean, thanks to the east-facing Kuroshio current

The other great Spanish trade route was that of the Fleet of the Indies that crossed the Atlantic Ocean between Veracruz, Cartagena de Indias, Portobelo, Havana and Seville or Cádiz. Part of the eastern merchandise of the Manila Galleon landed in Acapulco were in turn transported by land to Veracruz, where they embarked in the Indian fleets bound for Spain. For this reason, the ships that sailed from Veracruz were loaded with merchandise from the East from the commercial centers of the Philippines, plus the precious metals and natural resources of Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeón_de_Manila


I see "dulce de leche" and its expansion in this context and moment I could not tell you why, but on this specific occasion I am convinced by this version
Click to expand...

Lets agree to disagree. I have a friend who did some more research and found that historian doesn't really have any evidence. There is nothing like dulce de leche in those cuisines and the similar products all have Spanish names.
 
ratchet_fan said:
Lets agree to disagree. I have a friend who did some more research and found that historian doesn't really have any evidence. There is nothing like dulce de leche in those cuisines and the similar products all have Spanish names.
Click to expand...

We have the fried milk that apparently is clear that it is of Spanish origin.

img_8891.jpg
 
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