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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Give me the account of Spanish aid or Spanish investments in Latin America so that I can give you a convenient answer. Does it surpass what the Spanish plundered from the Inca Empire in gold, silver, relics, etc? Spain is not and will never be a major investor in emerging markets and Banco Santander has not yet broken until today due to the huge profits obtained at Brasill. Ecuador is the land of the Quechua and Aymara people, descendants of the Incas and your offenses were not directed only at the Lady Mayor of Guayaquil but at all Ecuadorian people. The plane landed in Quito and “rescued” its fellow citizens without any major problems. Ecuador is no longer a colony of Spain. It is a sovereign country and would have the right to prevent the landing of any foreign aircraft in its territory. His comment is based on the view of the colonizer who thinks he is superior and cannot be confronted by inferior people, the vast majority of whom are mestizos or indigenous people living in a former colony. You say that Europeans from Central and Northerm Europe have a distorted view of Spain, but it seems that you have that same distorted view of Latin America. We do not need alms from Spain or any other country to survive. You have offended the entire Ecuadorian people because of the unfortunate attitude of a single person. In conclusion, I am as much a community citizen as you are, because I also have Portuguese citizenship and I do not brag about it thinking that it makes me better than anyone else. If you were offended by what I said, I'm sorry, but it needed to be said. Let's end this conversation here because it is off topic. Each has already said what he wanted to say. End. Latin American greetings.


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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Cosa fare secondo Nonna...What nonna says to do...
    Last edited by Angela; 21-03-20 at 16:25.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Cosa fare seconda Nonna...What nonna says to do...
    Molta forza per tutti gli italiani. Bellissimo esempio di fede nella vita. Grazie nonna. Il mondo è con l'Italia. L'Italia è con il mondo.


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    and this is nothing,
    the Hunger and Poverty that is coming after coronavirus will be bigger.

    That is what my 89 years old father predicts.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    and this is nothing,
    the Hunger and Poverty that is coming after coronavirus will be bigger.

    That is what my 89 years old father predicts.
    he's remembering things that were much worse than corona
    we're all spoiled
    this isn't armageddon

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    ICU in a hospital in the city of Bergamo, Italy. The video, narrated in English, contains strong scenes.



    While Jair Bolsonaro, President (sic) of Brazil, insists on saying that the new coronavirus is nothing more than a “little cold”, doctors at the biggest hospital in Bergmano, Italy, warn that the pandemic “is not just any flu”. "Most patients have pneumonia. It is very severe pneumonia," says one of the doctors at the Italian hospital in a video posted on the internet.

    The city of Bergamo, located in northern Italy, with 120,000 inhabitants, is at the center of the pandemic resulting from the new coronavirus in the country. Due to the speed of contagion, the health system is overloaded and the Armed Forces were called in to assist in the removal of bodies due to the collapse of funeral services. "It is massively stressful for any health system, because we see 50 to 60 patients arriving every day. Most are so severe that they need a lot of oxygen," says another doctor in the video.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Molta forza per tutti gli italiani. Bellissimo esempio di fede nella vita. Grazie nonna. Il mondo è con l'Italia. L'Italia è con il mondo.


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    Coronavirus: Spain borders on the 25,000 infected and adds 324 deaths in 24 hours

    It is important to understand that we are talking about confirmed cases. We are measuring two phenomena at the same time: the real increase in those infected in each country and the ability to detect them by their authorities. In Spain, for example, cases skyrocketed after February 25, when people with pneumonia of unknown origin began testing for Covid-19.

    The other key is the evolution of deaths. To keep up with the epidemic, we must also look at the hospitalization or death curves, in case the confirmed numbers start to fall behind due to lack of tests. The following graph is analogous to the first: the good news will be to see a flattening of the logarithmic curve.

    In Spain, above all, Moroccan immigrants are paid half a rent so that they live in normal people's buildings to avoid the ghettos and that means that we have to bear them.

    https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/03/...48_230452.html

    And without material, I can not find a mask in any online pharmacy takes 3 weeks to arrive. Even Zara has volunteered and is manufacturing suits and masks but it is still early to have a stock

    More than five days locked up at home that makes you think of so many things, I have even remembered the balls (suck up to) in class, for me and my friends were the worsthow I hated them lol

    I have been confined for a week and a day I am losing track of time. I've only been out shopping once.


    My neighbors have received a visit from another marriage with children, it is prohibited and I have wanted to call the police, this cannot be, it is incredible, I want to call the police because my neighbors have broken control, they are Maghrebi immigrants, perhaps they do not understand the language and do not know the rules, even I believe this excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    ICU in a hospital in the city of Bergamo, Italy. The video, narrated in English, contains strong scenes.



    While Jair Bolsonaro, President (sic) of Brazil, insists on saying that the new coronavirus is nothing more than a “little cold”, doctors at the biggest hospital in Bergmano, Italy, warn that the pandemic “is not just any flu”. "Most patients have pneumonia. It is very severe pneumonia," says one of the doctors at the Italian hospital in a video posted on the internet.

    The city of Bergamo, located in northern Italy, with 120,000 inhabitants, is at the center of the pandemic resulting from the new coronavirus in the country. Due to the speed of contagion, the health system is overloaded and the Armed Forces were called in to assist in the removal of bodies due to the collapse of funeral services. "It is massively stressful for any health system, because we see 50 to 60 patients arriving every day. Most are so severe that they need a lot of oxygen," says another doctor in the video.


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    Do you know what happens in Bergamo?
    a Greek doctor who works there described the scene at Greek TV,
    Anaesthesiologist are forced to play God, and decide divine judgement upon who lives and who dies,

    meanwhile, in Greece we are still more lose and free
    but this a shoking scene,
    the first funeral of coronavirus victim after days in pathoanatomy's chambers
    It is a shocking scene for me,
    like a scene from a worst scenario of a movie.

    Not a single tear for the dead, Not even Last kiss, No flowers, not even the throw soil for goodbye,






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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    ICU in a hospital in the city of Bergamo, Italy. The video, narrated in English, contains strong scenes.



    While Jair Bolsonaro, President (sic) of Brazil, insists on saying that the new coronavirus is nothing more than a “little cold”, doctors at the biggest hospital in Bergmano, Italy, warn that the pandemic “is not just any flu”. "Most patients have pneumonia. It is very severe pneumonia," says one of the doctors at the Italian hospital in a video posted on the internet.

    The city of Bergamo, located in northern Italy, with 120,000 inhabitants, is at the center of the pandemic resulting from the new coronavirus in the country. Due to the speed of contagion, the health system is overloaded and the Armed Forces were called in to assist in the removal of bodies due to the collapse of funeral services. "It is massively stressful for any health system, because we see 50 to 60 patients arriving every day. Most are so severe that they need a lot of oxygen," says another doctor in the video.


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    I just keep asking myself: why Bergamo? (This kind of thinking is an occupational hazard for me. :)

    Looking back over the news from Italy, there was a big conference between Chinese and Italian leaders in Rome about the so called Belt and Road Plan.

    However, that was in May of 2019. It doesn't seem possible that it was in China and then in Italy that early. The distinctive pattern of these x-rays would have been obvious, no?

    Then there's the fact that, if I remember correctly, the strain in Munich and Lombardia is from Fujian. What reason would people from Fujian have for skipping around Southern Germany and Northern Italy? (In other parts of Germany it's predominantly another strain.)

    Fujian is one of the more affluent provinces with many industries spanning tea production, clothing and sports manufacturers such as Anta, 361 Degrees, Xtep, Peak Sport Products and Septwolves. Many foreign firms have operations in Fujian. They include Boeing, Dell, GE, Kodak, Nokia, Siemens, Swire, TDK and Panasonic.

    Well, there's the link to Munich. It's through Siemens. The Chinese woman who initially brought it to Munich must have been a Siemens associate from Fujian. No reason for any particular contact with Italy, though, unless her travel history indicates otherwise. That would have come out if it was checked, however, although having doctors do contact tracing makes no sense to me. Put the police, the equivalent of the FBI on it.

    It would also be easy to check airplane manifests. Count back 14 days from the first case in Lombardia and from that point start checking for any passengers from Fujian. It's not hard to do if you think like a cop or a prosecutor.

    Unbeknownst to doctors and the authorities, did someone who was a more casual contact of the businesswoman escape identification, and perhaps drive over the Alps to ski? It's not only close contacts who might have been at risk. All she had to do was cough on someone in passing on the street, or be in the lavatory with someone and it's done. If that person is asymptomatic and decides to go skiing near Bergamo?

    This is how epidemics work, and why the only real answer is a vaccine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    and this is nothing,
    the Hunger and Poverty that is coming after coronavirus will be bigger.

    That is what my 89 years old father predicts.
    I did the test with my father of 86


    His prediction is that more work will be done in science, there will be more work and the world will be better.

    With what there is already obviously no one would want this method for a better world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I did the test with my father of 86


    His prediction is that more work will be done in science, there will be more work and the world will be better.

    With what there is already obviously no one would want this method for a better world.
    my father is in an almost sterile appartment with partially Oxygen support, (we put him there)
    my mother is next room to him,
    Only me and my sister enter, they see grand and grand-grand children from balkony or widow.
    he manage to analyze me his thoughts that the Great V of economy, will be a disaster, and instead of V will have a Great L for 4-5 years.

    great V is the graphical image of turn off. short time pause, turn on again,

    think what damage to society is the close of public local products market.

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    Any chance this will slow down in 2 weeks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Any chance this will slow down in 2 weeks?
    that's what every one is counting on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    my father is in an almost sterile appartment with partially Oxygen support, (we put him there)
    my mother is next room to him,
    Only me and my sister enter, they see grand and grand-grand children from balkony or widow.
    he manage to analyze me his thoughts that the Great V of economy, will be a disaster, and instead of V will have a Great L for 4-5 years.

    great V is the graphical image of turn off. short time pause, turn on again,

    think what damage to society is the close of public local products market.
    I hope your father does well and comes out of this, surely it is so.


    Actually we are already living it in the first person, nobody can imagine what it is until they live it, I say it from the experience of when I heard the news, first China, then Italy adding that governments do not want to alarm the population and when you don't expect it you are already in the eye of the hurricane it has already arrived.


    Here in Spain they take the person away and they may never see them again, there are cases that have taken the family member and handed him over in a small urn of ashes.


    The first days were horrible, the supermarkets were empty, it is logical, but there are no supply problems.


    Many family stores open only in the morning, supermarkets during normal hours.


    They must necessarily open food, pharmacies, tobacconists and technology, mechanical workshops, gas stations


    If you go out to buy the police ask you for the purchase ticket. You can only take the dog outside.


    You cannot go to a second residence.


    People are responding very well; although the poor children must already be desperate. I think now they are going to allow the autists out.


    This is to experience it in the first person, unimaginable.

    My father is an incredibly physically strong man but sedentary confinements are a danger to the elderly so I have been able to do physical exercises on a daily basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I just keep asking myself: why Bergamo? (This kind of thinking is an occupational hazard for me. :)

    Looking back over the news from Italy, there was a big conference between Chinese and Italian leaders in Rome about the so called Belt and Road Plan.

    However, that was in May of 2019. It doesn't seem possible that it was in China and then in Italy that early. The distinctive pattern of these x-rays would have been obvious, no?

    Then there's the fact that, if I remember correctly, the strain in Munich and Lombardia is from Fujian. What reason would people from Fujian have for skipping around Southern Germany and Northern Italy? (In other parts of Germany it's predominantly another strain.)

    Fujian is one of the more affluent provinces with many industries spanning tea production, clothing and sports manufacturers such as Anta, 361 Degrees, Xtep, Peak Sport Products and Septwolves. Many foreign firms have operations in Fujian. They include Boeing, Dell, GE, Kodak, Nokia, Siemens, Swire, TDK and Panasonic.

    Well, there's the link to Munich. It's through Siemens. The Chinese woman who initially brought it to Munich must have been a Siemens associate from Fujian. No reason for any particular contact with Italy, though, unless her travel history indicates otherwise. That would have come out if it was checked, however, although having doctors do contact tracing makes no sense to me. Put the police, the equivalent of the FBI on it.

    It would also be easy to check airplane manifests. Count back 14 days from the first case in Lombardia and from that point start checking for any passengers from Fujian. It's not hard to do if you think like a cop or a prosecutor.

    Unbeknownst to doctors and the authorities, did someone who was a more casual contact of the businesswoman escape identification, and perhaps drive over the Alps to ski? It's not only close contacts who might have been at risk. All she had to do was cough on someone in passing on the street, or be in the lavatory with someone and it's done. If that person is asymptomatic and decides to go skiing near Bergamo?

    This is how epidemics work, and why the only real answer is a vaccine.
    Today some newspapers report the news of some first results from a research conducted by the team of Professor Massimo Ciccozzi of the Campus Biomedico of Rome, according to which Covid-19 arrived in Italy in two different epidemic events, one directly from China and a second mediated from a third country. Basically a kind of pincer that crushed us.


    In any case - for what little I understood - I believe that the problem arose from an incorrect evaluation that led to concentrate the efforts and medical investigations on the territory of Lodi and Cremona, having found the first cases there and considering it the most important fire of the infection, when probably the main explosion of the virus was taking place elsewhere: like Bergamo and - at this point (hoping to be wrong) - in Milan. People transiting from abroad or to abroad in Lombardy must pass through the belt of ​​Milan / Bergamo / Brescia. This is where companies, industries and services are concentrated, it is here that two of the airports in the region are located (Linate and Orio al Serio) and it's always here that the bulk of the railway lines and road/motorway axes that connect all Northern Italy in the West-East direction.


    Frankly I thought that having found the infection between Lodi, Cremona and the nearby Piacenza in Emilia (very important centers for agri-food production, but in the end "quiet" from a point of view of the movement of people, at least when compared to others cities) should have immediately alarmed the whole region. Instead other logics and assessments prevailed.


    There have been all the conditions for multiplying this disaster

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    In australia ...we are coming into autumn and then winter .............expecting the worse
    current state of play in link

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...ralia/12060704

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    In australia ...we are coming into autumn and then winter .............expecting the worse
    current state of play in link

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...ralia/12060704
    Above all, go buying masks and alcohol, here yesterday the alcohol was exhausted, the masks have been exhausted almost from the beginning.

    Alcohool is very good both for the hands and for the surfaces since it damn virus lasts x time depending on the surfaces, cardboard, glass e.t.c. I received an order for amazon, I did not open the door and the waiter left it on the ground, then I opened the package with gloves and cleaned the product with alcohol, but still, sooner or later I would make a mistake.

    I also received this week neither olive oil (Melgarejo) from Jaén and the boxes are cardboard covered with plastic, sooner or later we will all end up infected, if Bay Bay happens it will have been a pleasure to meet you, we will see each other in eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    Frankly I thought that having found the infection between Lodi, Cremona and the nearby Piacenza in Emilia (very important centers for agri-food production, but in the end "quiet" from a point of view of the movement of people, at least when compared to others cities) should have immediately alarmed the whole region. Instead other logics and assessments prevailed.


    There have been all the conditions for multiplying this disaster
    that is the fear of many people, including me,

    Coronavirus is not transmited by consuption of food, at least from what scientists say, like other viruses,
    BUT, could it be transmited by touch or even gathering time breath to fruits and green,
    I mean you touch a orange at market, and in a short time another one touch it, or you touch somethning that the gatherer was nearby, 30 cm lets say, could that trasmit virus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    that is the fear of many, including me,

    Coronavirus is not transmited by consuption of food, at least from what scientists say, like other viruses,
    BUT, could it be transmited by touch or even gathering time breath to fruits and green,
    I mean you touch a orange at market, and in a short time another one touch it, or you touch somethning that the gatherer was nearby, 30 cm lets say, could that trasmit virus?

    I agree, Yetos. For now I don't even believe that the food supply chain is particularly involved in the spread of the virus (and if it is, we are probably talking about a secondary vector .... we have many defects, but Italians are very uncompromising about food: an inspection by NAS Carabineers is never a courtesy visit ...).


    What I wanted to say is that if there have already been so many Covid-19 patients between Lodi-Cremona-Piacenza, which are smaller centers from a demographic point of view, let's also say more "provincial" or peripheral (therefore with less transits than people if not on specific sectors, such as the food sector), an even higher number of people infected in the rest of the reason could be expected with greater reason and proportion, where there are the most important railway, automotive and airport hubs ...


    Surely this virus has an unusual contagiousness, "tsunami" is not a term used inappropriately, but I also have the personal impression that the local, regional, national and international rulers know little or nothing about what happens on their territory logistically, about the movement of goods and people.
    Poor adherence to reality, poor practical sense and - if all this had been well known - political cynicism and dishonesty that prompted some of them to exploit this tragedy to settle political and economic accounts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    I agree, Yetos. For now I don't even believe that the food supply chain is particularly involved in the spread of the virus (and if it is, we are probably talking about a secondary vector .... we have many defects, but Italians are very uncompromising about food: an inspection by NAS Carabineers is never a courtesy visit ...).


    What I wanted to say is that if there have already been so many Covid-19 patients between Lodi-Cremona-Piacenza, which are smaller centers from a demographic point of view, let's also say more "provincial" or peripheral (therefore with less transits than people if not on specific sectors, such as the food sector), an even higher number of people infected in the rest of the reason could be expected with greater reason and proportion, where there are the most important railway, automotive and airport hubs ...


    Surely this virus has an unusual contagiousness, "tsunami" is not a term used inappropriately, but I also have the personal impression that the local, regional, national and international rulers know little or nothing about what happens on their territory logistically, about the movement of goods and people.
    Poor adherence to reality, poor practical sense and - if all this had been well known - political cynicism and dishonesty that prompted some of them to exploit this tragedy to settle political and economic accounts
    I see your point about small peripheral province,
    But seems that there either exists a lot, either not,
    was looking to San Marino, iceland Andora Luxebourg before,
    They have % bigger than Italy (San Marino is Italy ok. but x5 %)
    a village of about 100 people here in Greece has 3 dead and 14 confirmed, cause nobody was suspicious, population mostly farmers and aged.
    someone went a tour to holy lands and brought it.
    until next day that State realize it, by checking another co-tour member damage was done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
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    7. France 12,612 (+1,617)
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    I think that Germany does not count those who already had another previous pathology.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I see your point about small peripheral province,
    But seems that there either exists a lot, either not,
    was looking to San Marino, iceland Andora Luxebourg before,
    They have % bigger than Italy (San Marino is Italy ok. but x5 %)
    a village of about 100 people here in Greece has 3 dead and 14 confirmed, cause nobody was suspicious, population mostly farmers and aged.
    someone went a tour to holy lands and brought it.
    until next day that State realize it, by checking another co-tour member damage was done.
    I can't speak knowingly, not being a statistician, but I hypothesize that in the case of state realities and small populations such as those of Luxembourg, Andorra or San Marino, even an absolute small number of infected or deaths become extremely impactful when calculate the various percentages (a bit like in bottlenecks phaenomena).

    I don't know enough Andorra or Luxembourg, while I know San Marino as my pockets, since it is opposite the country of my grandfather.
    I am not surprised by its numbers, even if it is a foreign state, in fact it can be considered a large municipality largely encapsulated within the Province of Rimini, from which it is only 25 km and half an hour away by car (and the people of San Marino are genetically and in all respects Romagnols / Montefeltrins).



    San Marino hasn't a real border, it depends for some services on Italy, at least 5-6000 frontier workers from Rimini reach it every day and probably as many San Marino people pour into Italy. It is an important tourist center, but it is also a tax haven, so it remains a popular destination for Italians and foreigners. There is also talk of a certain close consanguinity among the inhabitants of this small republic, at least those of the older generation, which perhaps does not help much in terms of health.

    However, opportunities to import the virus are not lacking. Basically it followed the fate of Rimini, which was the other nucleus of Emilia-Romagna attacked by the virus from the first hour, which persuades me more and more that the big business and tourism centers are those where the virus he arrived earlier, without anyone noticing. But incidentally it was discovered out of them... :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    Today some newspapers report the news of some first results from a research conducted by the team of Professor Massimo Ciccozzi of the Campus Biomedico of Rome, according to which Covid-19 arrived in Italy in two different epidemic events, one directly from China and a second mediated from a third country. Basically a kind of pincer that crushed us.


    In any case - for what little I understood - I believe that the problem arose from an incorrect evaluation that led to concentrate the efforts and medical investigations on the territory of Lodi and Cremona, having found the first cases there and considering it the most important fire of the infection, when probably the main explosion of the virus was taking place elsewhere: like Bergamo and - at this point (hoping to be wrong) - in Milan. People transiting from abroad or to abroad in Lombardy must pass through the belt of ​​Milan / Bergamo / Brescia. This is where companies, industries and services are concentrated, it is here that two of the airports in the region are located (Linate and Orio al Serio) and it's always here that the bulk of the railway lines and road/motorway axes that connect all Northern Italy in the West-East direction.


    Frankly I thought that having found the infection between Lodi, Cremona and the nearby Piacenza in Emilia (very important centers for agri-food production, but in the end "quiet" from a point of view of the movement of people, at least when compared to others cities) should have immediately alarmed the whole region. Instead other logics and assessments prevailed.


    There have been all the conditions for multiplying this disaster
    Could you provide me with a link to the paper? Not something written by a reporter, but the actual paper? Thank you in advance.

    This is the kind of detective work I did for a big part of my life. I can't go to Italy to help, and I can't even help here other than to follow the rules, so I may as well occupy my mind with this. :)

    I'm interested to know the location of the first cases and when the transmission to them must have occurred, i.e. the time frame for infection, since they were probably infected no more than 2 weeks before onset of symptoms. Also, of course, the location.

    That would be not just the first "diagnosed" cases, but the first cases looking back at the record of deaths by interstitial pneumonia, even if that isn't listed as the primary cause of death.

    Also interesting would be to see if the researchers pinpointed the location of the transmission from China and the specific strain. Is it the original Wuhan strain? It would have to have come into Italy pretty damn early, since Italy was the first country in Europe to close down flights from China.

    Most importantly, is there any indication that one of those two circulating "types" is more contagious and "lethal" than the other?

    I know how conservative Italian doctors are (and personal bankers :)). I'd be interested to know if they've been using chloroquinine, and if not, if and when they will start.

    Another point of curiosity...does Italy produce its own N95 masks, surgical gloves, etc. or is it always dependent on other countries? I hope you're seeing industrialists step up to re-tool factories to produce them and sanitizer, ventilators, etc., as they are doing here.

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