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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #676
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    Could Atalanta-Valencia have triggered it?

    https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/...ndemic-1883593

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What aren't you getting here? You sound like the reporters who think you can snap your fingers and products will instantly be available. They have to be MADE. Do you know how many tens of millions of them would have to be produced for everyone to have a supply? Fifty million are needed here in the U.S. That's only enough for the hospitals and other health care facilities, and they say they need more just to keep ahead of it.

    In a country of 62 million like Italy, how many do its hospitals need? Then, how many does the populace need? That kind of production doesn't happen in a day or two or a week. Then they have to get to distribution points. Then they have to be distributed through the supply chain.

    Plus, must I state the obvious? How many are already dead? How much damage has ALREADY been done to the economy not to mention the psyche of its people.
    PLZ
    China is not the only producer of masks in the World, you could ask Brazil Australia Even Russia,
    Italy is famous for its dressmaking, and especially N Italy, surely can produce with cotton and microfiber filter, or with chemical papper,
    As long as you are in limited inside house, you do not need millions masks,
    the only masks needed are for hospitals workers and medicine,

    If you can find at internet masks with Norms,
    think what your goverment can do,

    I think obvious is what we see, and not what we fear, or want

    you can produce, one usagee, enough in a day (24 hours) polyamide/microfiber
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #678
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    Yeah, I'll tell my great-aunts to make some N95 masks.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Could Atalanta-Valencia have triggered it?

    https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/...ndemic-1883593
    Possible, once it was in Bergamo. Ireland is already starting to report cases in Irish people who went to the Cheltenham Races in England March 10-13th.

    I wonder what we'll see in a month after all the Spring Breakers in Florida have returned home.

    Odd, also...

    Valencia have announced 35 per cent of their squad and staff tested positive for coronavirus, linking it to that trip to Milan.
    However, so far Atalanta have not registered any cases of their own.

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    A paper on the effectiveness of mask wearing for stopping the spread of influenza (2018).

    "Abstract

    Outbreaks of influenza represent an important health concern worldwide. In many cases, vaccines are only partially successful in reducing the infection rate, and respiratory protective devices (RPDs) are used as a complementary countermeasure. In devising a protection strategy against influenza for a given population, estimates of the level of protection afforded by different RPDs is valuable. In this article, a risk assessment model previously developed in general form was used to estimate the effectiveness of different types of protective equipment in reducing the rate of infection in an influenza outbreak. It was found that a 50% compliance in donning the device resulted in a significant (at least 50% prevalence and 20% cumulative incidence) reduction in risk for fitted and unfitted N95 respirators, high-filtration surgical masks, and both low-filtration and high-filtration pediatric masks. An 80% compliance rate essentially eliminated the influenza outbreak. The results of the present study, as well as the application of the model to related influenza scenarios, are potentially useful to public health officials in decisions involving resource allocation or education strategies."

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30229968/

    Since the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the virus that caused coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), the use of face masks has become ubiquitous in China and other Asian countries such as South Korea and Japan.



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    @angela

    those who have any type of respiratory limitation, such as asthma or cardiovascular problems, should check with their physicians prior to using air-purifying respirators.
    this include FFP2 masks,

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    @Yetos,
    I've removed your offensive, personal post.

    You make one more comment like that, and you're out of here. HOW DARE YOU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, roughly Bergamo, Milano, Cremona? I wonder why the west of Piemonte? The biggest question, of course, is still why Bergamo?

    The field hospital set up by Samaritan's Purse in Cremona is the model to follow. Patients with respiratory distress shouldn't go into regular hospitals. They have to have separate facilities. Better a makeshift building, so long as you can ventilate, than in a hospital infecting non-Coronavirus patients.

    Even if China were to sell tens of millions of masks to Italy now, by the time they arrive, how many will have died, and not just the very old, but younger men, doctors etc.? How much psychological damage, how much damage to the economy?

    Now I see all the papers coming out saying masks work. Four weeks ago, when this got going, was the time to ramp up production of them.
    @Angela,

    Bergamo (but also nearby Brescia) constitutes the main industrial hard core of Lombardy and probably of the whole northern Italy: there are large but also small and medium-sized companies. There are those who have hypothesized - reasonably - that many of these sectors, receiving and assembling components from various countries (including China) on tools, machines and equipment, have had opportunities for contacts with foreign countries and therefore with the virus. Many of these companies are located along the Val Seriana, whose centers are in fact a long branch of Bergamo in a northeastern direction towards the Orobic Alps. In practice, a gigantic industrial/commercial and communication artery that perhaps also served as an incubator for the disease.
    Someone else cites contacts with the farmers of Lodi and Cremona on the occasion of some recent agricultural and livestock fairs.


    Still others speculate (and this seems to me one of the most serious hypotheses) that the football game of the Campions league of 19 February between Atalanta (the soccer team of Bergamo) and Valencia was a real biological bomb to make Italians and Spaniards infected each other...

    @Regio X: Yes, I'm pretty sure that this match played a huge role in spreading the virus

    The area of ​​western Piedmont most affected by the virus corresponds to the province of Turin, another industrial area connected to Milan, Bergamo and Brescia via the A4 motorway.

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    Now the Olympics are in jeopardy...I feel bad for the Japanese, they did a great job of containing it, but the European countries did not do so well, so they may be disadvantaged due to it. My state of Rhode Island has done a decent job of containing it, which I may attribute to a strange peculiarity of Rhode Islanders; most in the northern two-thirds of the state where the large majority live, a trip of more than 20-30 minutes is viewed like a day trip! My grandmother's old gynecologist, a German woman, once complained about us in that we view anything other than a 5-10 mile trip as a grand voyage, evidently in response to my grandmother choosing another doctor 15 minutes down the road in Warwick instead of staying with her and making a half-hour trip to Cranston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it will be for 2 months rather than 2 weeks
    you must keep doing sports
    The sport that can be done at home


    A runner skips confinement in the Basque Country. A neighbor rebukes her from her balcony


    Help it's not fair
    Neighbor: What is not fair that you run xxxx putting the police at risk stupid
    Help
    Neighbor: Help says, everyone here a week already
    Help, please, I'm not doing anything wrong
    Neighbor: Don't resist and let them work xxxxx
    Neighbor: list you're a list, you're putting people at risk clown
    Help please this is not fair
    Neighbor: What is not fair that you run, putting the police at risk, do not resist and let them work.
    Neighbor: They will end up hurting her, she is stupid and on top of that she starts screaming as if she were raping her, she will be stupid, watch her for an hour so they can put her in the car, as soon as I get inside, silly. It takes the poor cops an hour to put her in the car

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I wish I could say New York is doing well. My husband just got back from our local hospital. They had sent out a message to anyone who has any N95 masks to bring them in because they only have a 3 day supply and aren't sure new ones will arrive in time.

    I never thought I'd see the day this would happen here.

    On the good news front, the Governor is opening up 4 field hospitals so the infected don't have to be treated in regular hospitals.

    He was so "pissed" and I mean "pissed", that when he was being driven around he saw teenagers playing hoop. He's right. The stupidity of the average human being is really astonishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    The sport that can be done at home


    A runner skips confinement in the Basque Country. A neighbor rebukes her from her balcony


    Help it's not fair
    Neighbor: What is not fair that you run xxxx putting the police at risk stupid
    Help
    Neighbor: Help says, everyone here a week already
    Help, please, I'm not doing anything wrong
    Neighbor: Don't resist and let them work xxxxx
    Neighbor: list you're a list, you're putting people at risk clown
    Help please this is not fair
    Neighbor: What is not fair that you run, putting the police at risk, do not resist and let them work.
    Neighbor: They will end up hurting her, she is stupid and on top of that she starts screaming as if she were raping her, she will be stupid, watch her for an hour so they can put her in the car, as soon as I get inside, silly. It takes the poor cops an hour to put her in the car
    an escalating situation
    and a nervous environment

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    Another list. Tenerife. Tourist decides to skip confinement, a Hotel employee has to go for her, once outside she is arrested by the police.



    I remember the day before the confinement order, it was Friday, I went out to buy, everything was open, there were few people in the bars anymore but they still remained open, I don't know how many people I was with, but I still was not aware of the situation I have after a week in addition to seeing the real scope that was not; even if they put you on the t.v. images of China or Italy within a span of the face, until it arrives is not recognized.

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    "Greece will impose a nationwide lockdown to stem the spread of the coronavirus, limiting people to their homes except for essential outings, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said Sunday.
    "I have given orders that all appropriate action be taken to enforce the ban on all unnecessary movement across the country," Mitsotakis said in a televised address to the nation.
    The restrictions will come into force from 6:00 am local time (0400 GMT) on Monday, and will require citizens to carry proof of identity to leave their homes.
    Outings are only permitted for people "going to work, the doctor, or to visit someone who needs help, or those who are buying food or medication", the prime minister said.
    Citizens are also permitted to leave the house to walk their pets or exercise outdoors alone or with one other person."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/greece-im...171635464.html


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    Video: Civil Police helicopter scares bathers in a the beach in the Santa Catarina State, Brazil, simulating a sandstorm.

    Images published on social networks, confirmed by the Civil Police of Santa Catarina, show that the Aeropolicial Service (Saer) team found a way, let's say, "unusual" to scare off bathers who insist on going to the beach in the state. In an overflight in Greater Florianópolis, last Friday (20), when identifying people sunbathing, the aircraft lowers to the point of revolving the sand and simulating a "storm".

    The measure was taken to make people aware that the state is under quarantine due to the coronavirus pandemic, and the order is to stay home. The Civil Police reported that enforcement actions will be repeated in the coming days, to ensure restrictions are obeyed.




    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

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    Meanwhile in Miami there's a social media campaign inviting all "Spring Breakers" to a certain beach for a "party".

    It's freaking unreal.

    Most of them must have been shut out of dorms, so they're supposed to be at home with their parents, right? What do they think about all this? Are they idiots too?

    I don't understand why the Mayor and/or the Governor of Florida don't blast them with some fire department hoses or whatever, or at least close down all alcohol sales for the next week. Maybe then they'd go home.These politicians should be impeached for incompetence. This wouldn't be happening with the prior governor, Scott. He's practically foaming at the mouth with anger.

    Turning to New York, our governor is my new guy, woke or not. :) Nothing trumps competence at a time of emergency.



    He and Trump sound a lot alike, and they both sound like Christopher Walken. :) It's New Yorkese...well, specifically "Queensese" for all three of them.

    The Lion Speech:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KB2xignE6c

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Meanwhile in Miami there's a social media campaign inviting all "Spring Breakers" to a certain beach for a "party".

    It's freaking unreal.

    Most of them must have been shut out of dorms, so they're supposed to be at home with their parents, right? What do they think about all this? Are they idiots too?
    their parents must have fled to my State, ... Corona numbers are still relatively low and there’s no mandatory restriction of movement yet.

    I still see around out of state license plates, (most are Empire State) :)

    Cowbell - SNL - Christopher Walken


    I’ve got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!

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    This is a very vivid and frightening account of what a patient with a serious case of coronavirus may experience.

    (((((( Yes, I came across the article on ZeroHedge, which, to be clear, is an alternative news site. Original article can be found here = https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients )))))

    “It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube.”

    As of Friday, Louisiana was reporting 479 confirmed cases of COVID-19, one of the highest numbers in the country. Ten people had died. The majority of cases are in New Orleans, which now has one confirmed case for every 1,000 residents. New Orleans had held Mardi Gras celebrations just two weeks before its first patient, with more than a million revelers on its streets.
    I spoke to a respiratory therapist there, whose job is to ensure that patients are breathing well. He works in a medium-sized city hospital’s intensive care unit. (We are withholding his name and employer, as he fears retaliation.) Before the virus came to New Orleans, his days were pretty relaxed, nebulizing patients with asthma, adjusting oxygen tubes that run through the nose or, in the most severe cases, setting up and managing ventilators. His patients were usually older, with chronic health conditions and bad lungs.
    Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity. The ICU where he works has essentially become a coronavirus unit. He estimates that his hospital has admitted dozens of confirmed or presumptive coronavirus patients. About a third have ended up on ventilators.


    His hospital had not prepared for this volume before the virus first appeared. One physician had tried to raise alarms, asking about negative pressure rooms and ventilators. Most staff concluded that he was overreacting. “They thought the media was overhyping it,” the respiratory therapist told me. “In retrospect, he was right to be concerned.”
    He spoke to me by phone on Thursday about why, exactly, he has been so alarmed. His account has been condensed and edited for clarity.
    “Reading about it in the news, I knew it was going to be bad, but we deal with the flu every year so I was thinking: Well, it’s probably not that much worse than the flu. But seeing patients with COVID-19 completely changed my perspective, and it’s a lot more frightening.”
    This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people.
    “I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”
    They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.
    “We have an observation unit in the hospital, and we have been admitting patients that had tested positive or are presumptive positive — these are patients that had been in contact with people who were positive. We go and check vitals on patients every four hours, and some are on a continuous cardiac monitor, so we see that their heart rate has a sudden increase or decrease, or someone goes in and sees that the patient is struggling to breathe or is unresponsive. That seems to be what happens to a lot of these patients: They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.”


    The lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.
    “It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream.
    “Normally, ARDS is something that happens over time as the lungs get more and more inflamed. But with this virus, it seems like it happens overnight. When you’re healthy, your lung is made up of little balloons. Like a tree is made out of a bunch of little leaves, the lung is made of little air sacs that are called the alveoli. When you breathe in, all of those little air sacs inflate, and they have capillaries in the walls, little blood vessels. The oxygen gets from the air in the lung into the blood so it can be carried around the body.
    “Typically with ARDS, the lungs become inflamed. It’s like inflammation anywhere: If you have a burn on your arm, the skin around it turns red from additional blood flow. The body is sending it additional nutrients to heal. The problem is, when that happens in your lungs, fluid and extra blood starts going to the lungs. Viruses can injure cells in the walls of the alveoli, so the fluid leaks into the alveoli. A telltale sign of ARDS in an X-ray is what’s called ‘ground glass opacity,’ like an old-fashioned ground glass privacy window in a shower. And lungs look that way because fluid is white on an X-ray, so the lung looks like white ground glass, or sometimes pure white, because the lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.”
    A screenshot of chest radiographs of a man suspected to have COVID-19. (Obtained by ProPublica via the Radiological Society of North America, cited in the paper “Severe Acute Respiratory Disease in a Huanan Seafood Market Worker: Images of an Early Casualty” by Lijuan Qian, Jie Yu and Heshui Shi.)
    This severity ... is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience ... or people who inhale caustic gas.
    “With our coronavirus patients, once they’re on ventilators, most need about the highest settings that we can do. About 90% oxygen, and 16 of PEEP, positive end-expiratory pressure, which keeps the lung inflated. This is nearly as high as I’ve ever seen. The level we’re at means we are running out of options.
    “In my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience — they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs — or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”
    You’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you ...
    “It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.
    “When someone has an infection, I’m used to seeing the normal colors you’d associate with it: greens and yellows. The coronavirus patients with ARDS have been having a lot of secretions that are actually pink because they’re filled with blood cells that are leaking into their airways. They are essentially drowning in their own blood and fluids because their lungs are so full. So we’re constantly having to suction out the secretions every time we go into their rooms.”
    I do not want to catch this.
    “Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy shit, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

    “I worked a long stretch of days last week, and I watched it go from this novelty to a serious issue. We had one or two patients at our hospital, and then five to 10 patients, and then 20 patients. Every day, the intensity kept ratcheting up. More patients, and the patients themselves are starting to get sicker and sicker. When it first started, we all had tons of equipment, tons of supplies, and as we started getting more patients, we started to run out. They had to ration supplies. At first we were trying to use one mask per patient. Then it was just: You get one mask for positive patients, another mask for everyone else. And now it’s just: You get one mask.

    “I work 12-hour shifts. Right now, we are running about four times the number of ventilators than we normally have going. We have such a large volume of patients, but it’s really hard to find enough people to fill all the shifts. The caregiver-to-patient ratio has gone down, and you can’t spend as much time with each patient, you can’t adjust the vent settings as aggressively because you’re not going into the room as often. And we’re also trying to avoid going into the room as much as possible to reduce infection risk of staff and to conserve personal protective equipment.”
    Even if you survive ... it can also do long-lasting damage.
    “But we are trying to wean down the settings on the ventilator as much as possible, because you don’t want someone to be on the ventilator longer than they need to be. Your risk of mortality increases every day that you spend on a ventilator. The high pressures from high vent settings is pushing air into the lung and can overinflate those little balloons. They can pop. It can destroy the alveoli. Even if you survive ARDS, although some damage can heal, it can also do long-lasting damage to the lungs. They can get filled up with scar tissue. ARDS can lead to cognitive decline. Some people’s muscles waste away, and it takes them a long time to recover once they come off the ventilator.
    “There is a very real possibility that we might run out of ICU beds and at that point I don’t know what happens if patients get sick and need to be intubated and put on a ventilator. Is that person going to die because we don’t have the equipment to keep them alive? What if it goes on for months and dozens of people die because we don’t have the ventilators?
    “Hopefully we don’t get there, but if you only have one ventilator, and you have two patients, you’re going to have to go with the one who has a higher likelihood of surviving. And I’m afraid we’ll get to that point. I’ve heard that’s happening in Italy.”

  19. #694
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    their parents must have fled to my State, ... Corona numbers are still relatively low and there’s no mandatory restriction of movement yet.

    I still see around out of state license plates, (most are Empire State) :)

    Cowbell - SNL - Christopher Walken


    I’ve got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
    I'm going to post a funny clip of/about him on the fun videos thread. In a profession tolerant of eccentrics he's way at the top in terms of eccentricity. :)

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    The orgy in Barcelona in the middle of the coronavirus: called by an illegal dating website

    https://elcaso.elnacional.cat/es/suc...28791_102.html



    The investigation is ongoing to clarify how the orgy of sex and drugs was called to be held in an apartment in the Eixample of Barcelona this past Friday night, in full confinement by the coronavirus.







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    I guess people just don't change. This went on during the Black Death too, with a more lethal disease.

    Affirm life all you want, but all of you are locked into that apartment afterward until the quarantine is over.

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    In the U.K. they seem to think it's a national holiday, with crowds thronging the parks, etc. Do they think because they're outdoors the virus can't spread? You still have to "social distance".

    Chinese scientists destroyed proof of the virus in December.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In the U.K. they seem to think it's a national holiday, with crowds thronging the parks, etc. Do they think because they're outdoors the virus can't spread? You still have to "social distance".

    Chinese scientists destroyed proof of the virus in December.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj
    I think it is harder for it to jump from person to person outside than inside. However if there is credible scientific study saying otherwise, I might change my mind.

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    It has come out on t.v. a mental health professional and has advised that you only read the news about the coronavirus once or twice a day.


    Which is going to be quite difficult since it is impossible to navigate without finding the coronavirus everywhere.


    I think the advice is very good anyway.


    I have already ended up crying on the balcony like a cupcake at dawn when I remember the fragility of the people going out they go out on the balcony at 8pm to applaud and this situation that seems like a dream, but it is real, by God, impotence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I think it is harder for it to jump from person to person outside than inside. However if there is credible scientific study saying otherwise, I might change my mind.
    It's a good question. I'll see what I can find.

    Just going by common sense, however, if you're within three feet of someone and the person sneezes, will being outside change anything?

    Why do people in "mask culture countries" wear them when they're outside? Why were Chinese police knocking down and arresting anyone who was outside without a mask?

    I'm not advocating that, but they did get it at least temporarily under control.



    Boris Johnson was telling Brits: go outside but keep your distance from other people.

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