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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    We've been discussing the Atalanta/Valencia game on February 19th. Look at the data for February 19th. Could it have been there under the radar at a high enough rate on February 19th to spread at the game like that? I guess it's possible?



    If it's any consolation, you're not the only one to have cried over this. When I watched the video Salento posted of the "virtual" Va Pensiero Concert, I was a mess. If you don't feel compassion for the people suffering, you have no heart.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Access to indigenous lands in Brazil is closed after overcrowded of tourists.



    FUNAI (National Foundation of the Indian) decided to publish a decree that prohibits the entry of unauthorized and unnecessary people into indigenous lands.

    The measure was taken after the authorities realized the number of tourists present in the regions of indigenous reserves.

    The decree also regulates contact activities with isolated communities, which are all suspended until further notice.

    The authorities should provide aid to isolated Indians only if they seek help for medical reasons, for example.

    If they are isolated, they need to be guaranteed their right of not to keep in touch.

    Indigenous communities are much more vulnerable and susceptible to all our viruses because they have less exposure to viruses.

    Any flu can seriously affect the entire indigenous village.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I agree. There's no way they are doing anything but looking for a fever and cough. They should be stopping all flights from China or that stopped in China, although it may be too little, too late.

    Mongolia has shut its border with China, and neighboring countries are following suit. They have more sense than my own government.

    If these scientists are correct, and China knew much earlier than they let on that it was airborne and so high on the contagion scale, then the ultimate responsibility is theirs.

    What still boggles my mind is that they want to be a superpower but they still have a completely unhygienic food supply and eat wild animals known to harbor bizarre viruses. This keeps happening. Influenza after influenza spreads from there, then SARS, now this. The rest of the world gets affected. When are they going to address it? I suppose at the same time as they stop polluting.

    Btw, I saw a youtube upload from an American trapped in the city at the epicenter of the outbreak with his Chinese wife and child and he said people are completely panicked. No food is left in the stores, and people aren't moving from their homes.

    Would it be worse in New York? Absolutely, although I lived through blackouts in lower Manhattan and people were wonderful. The atmosphere has definitely changed, though.
    I have read this weekend that Chinese government is furieus against those practices but even a totalitarian regime can't get grip on this....it's the room the Chines people take.

    But in the West we must IMO be introspective because obese are more vulnerable for corona.
    https://www.worldobesity.org/news/co...g-with-obesity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I wish I could say New York is doing well. My husband just got back from our local hospital. They had sent out a message to anyone who has any N95 masks to bring them in because they only have a 3 day supply and aren't sure new ones will arrive in time.

    I never thought I'd see the day this would happen here.

    On the good news front, the Governor is opening up 4 field hospitals so the infected don't have to be treated in regular hospitals.

    He was so "pissed" and I mean "pissed", that when he was being driven around he saw teenagers playing hoop. He's right. The stupidity of the average human being is really astonishing.
    Chances are that many people don’t know that they have N95 masks already.

    I just found more N95 that I got from Home Depot for a home project couple of years ago.

    also, ... Crediting Regio X with the latest Va Pensiero :)


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I found the Ciccozzi paper. If I'm reading it correctly, one of the three clusters, and the most widespread, from other reading, forms a cluster with Southern Germany, which was detected there earlier.

    Two of the three clusters are in the Wuhan cluster. One can be traced to the tourist couple from Wuhan who were quarantined in Rome after they became ill. My understanding from prior analyses done by Americans is that there was no discernible spread from there. Another cluster is also Wuhan based, but the doctor doesn't describe the area or severity of spread.

    That's not helpful, if only because of all the speculation that somehow industrial and agricultural products from China are to blame. Even worst case estimates are that the virus only lives for three days on plastic and metal, but people are still speculating about this. We don't need this at a time when masks and ventilators are coming to Italy from China.

    We also don't want crazies to start looking at the Chinese residents in Prato and similar areas if it has nothing to do with them.

    I think the odds that two people from Jinjiang, where that particular set of mutations originated, both positive in a place where at that time it was barely present, then traveled to both Italy and Bergamo to infect others, are pretty slim.

    Italy closed access from China right away, and quarantined those Wuhan Chinese arrivals, but nobody was testing people crossing the Alps to come skiing.

    I'm not casting blame here. Contact tracing is never perfect, and quarantines often spring leaks. We just shouldn't be misinforming the public by refusing to be transparent.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1002/jmv.25773

    Some spread outside China was inevitable, but had China not lied to the world about it, we'd all be in better shape.

    That's why it sets my teeth on edge the way China is posturing about sending aid to Italy, and getting the Communist stooges in Cuba to send doctors as well. I'm sure most of the latter are well meaning, and the Cuban-American doctors I know are brilliant, but what medical schools did the descendants of those who stayed behind attend?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    IMO the world leaders either Chinese or US must stop with pointing their fingers and black jack. This leads to more tention in the world. We don't need that now.

    Not blame but joined effort is needed.

    I wish that the EU and US and the Commonwealth joined their forces and would facilitate the search for a serum.

    I wish that the same partners joined forces to produce and make equipment for the people that need care.

    But unfortunately this stays a wish... this is for all people a loss.
    Last edited by Northener; 23-03-20 at 19:41.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank-goodness all this damage to the economy and to the psyche of its people seems to be working.
    "Estimated mean R0 was 2.3-3.1 during the exponential phase of the epidemic. A slightly decreasing trend since February 20! The authors suggest that quarantine around the epicentre of the outbreak in Codogno appears to have played a critical role in controlling the infection"




    Finally, some official said it: the Emperor had no clothes. South Korea and Japan, having lived through the SARS spread and knowing the lies always told by the Chinese government about the spread of disease from China, had plans in place, and millions upon millions of masks in stock and a populace ready to wear them.

    In the west our leaders were following the advice of public health professionals that mask wearing wasn't necessary, which was obviously a guideline put in place so health professionals wouldn't be without them during an epidemic. Well, that backfired. It would only have been a reasonable statement if at the same time they were saying that they were ramping up production of the masks, but they weren't. They believed their own story.

    "NY Governor did a press conference yesterday w/new guidelines for residents incl masks. He said all seniors over 70, immuno-compromised, & people with underlying conditions should wear masks & anyone in their presence should wear masks too, he said."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    The President of Brazil said that the governors are attacking his absence of leadership in the coronavirus crisis because they are concerned about the 2022 elections, which are a long way away.

    Asked about the decision taken this Saturday 21st by the governor of São Paulo, João Doria, to decree quarantine for 15 days across the state, Jair Bolsonaro called the governor a “lunatic” and stated that he “is making politics on this case”, in reference to the coronavirus pandemic. “Those governors who criticize me all the time, say that I have no leadership. I say to these governors: the 2022 elections are still a long way off for you to start this type of attack, for this type of unfounded wear on the leader of the federal executive”, Bolsonaro said in an interview with CNN.

    The criticism of Bolsonaro also referred to the governor of Rio, Wilson Witzel, who ordered the closure of airports and roads to combat the spread of the virus.

    At the press conference that announced the quarantine this afternoon’s Saturday, Doria criticize the president: "in the absence of this (presidential) leadership, governors and mayors are doing what has to be done". “Bolsonaro calls the coronavirus of a 'simple common flu’ and is I that am the lunatic?”


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    This man is getting increasingly ridiculous. When he and his ministers made a public interview to talk about serious issues related to the Covid-19 pandemics, most of what he talked about was about how he is oh! so persecuted by the press, about how he should also be praised for the actions taken against the spread of the disease (not just his ministers), about how he is still so supported by the populace that the press wouldn't publicize a panelaço (public protests from inside the home using kitchen tools to make a huge noise collectively) in favor of his government (who on earth had even heard about a panelaço that is not against something? Ludicrous!)... Amidst this huge crisis, he is not helping and, to add insult to injury, only diminishes the severity of the problem and complains about what other authorities (governors, mayors) are doing. As we say here: muito ajuda quem não atrapalha ("one helps a lot if one doesn't disturb"). He's not governing, he's just annoying those who are really acting. For the first time, it seems Brazil is becoming a true federation, because the president is weak in anything that does not concern to political ideology and stupid party politics, so the governors are coming to the front and becoming the protagonists in this fight.

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    More than a million face masks will arrive on Monday from China to the Inditex warehouse to face the crisis

    Huawei president and founder Ren Zhengfei donates a similar amount of face masks to Spain

    https://elpais.com/economia/2020-03-...la-crisis.html

    Also with a dedication in Spanish which reads:

    Although the oceans separate us, the same moon unites us



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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    More than a million face masks will arrive on Monday from China to the Inditex warehouse to face the crisis

    Huawei president and founder Ren Zhengfei donates a similar amount of face masks to Spain

    https://elpais.com/economia/2020-03-...la-crisis.html

    Also with a dedication in Spanish which reads:

    Although the oceans separate us, the same moon unites us


    That's indeed a goodwill campaign....but the masks are needed!

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    1 members found this post helpful.

    Although the oceans separate us, the same moon unites us

    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    That's indeed a goodwill campaign....but the masks are needed!
    There will be a sale and purchase and there will be a donation


    In Spain there are already mask factories but in such an eventuality it does not yet cover all the millions of Spaniards, so they have to make an effort so that national production can assure us of a stock.


    Many people are sewing masks altruistically, they are masks that are not useful for toilets but still for the public, and this is insufficient.









    The people here are very supportive, they go out of their way and give their all

    This Biscay factory produces 16,000 masks a day



    This mask factory in Jáen (Andalusia) produces 80,000 masks a day


    There are even more factories

    We have to get self-supply

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    That's indeed a goodwill campaign....but the masks are needed!
    ... what good will? don’t fall for it, it’s a PR “dedication”, they’re putting lipstick on a pig.

    they already tried to blame others for the Pandemic.

    ... unbelievable!

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    In the Netherlands the (partly) 'lock down' is sharpened, especially regarding garderings, they are strict controlled, in fact we can only go to the supermarkets and a stroll around when on distance to other people, otherwise stay @home is obligation. High fines are introduced.

    But most of all the measures are extended to 1 june. (in stead of ending on 6 april).

    Nevertheless it stays NO lockdown.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ... what good will? don’t fall for it, it’s a PR “dedication”, they’re putting lipstick on a pig.

    they already tried to blame others for the Pandemic.

    ... unbelievable!
    Of course it is a kind of PR.

    But don't underestimate the effect of this.

    We see the other superpower trying to claim the serum in Europe (Germany).

    These things are remembered in the broad public in Europe....

    And blaming and reframing is not unique for China (c.q. the Chinese officials).

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    Let's see, they don't even say good morning


    This began to happen and I did not believe it from the first moment until I finally confirmed it with the new law where the Spanish Ministry of Health has full control over the national production of masks, their import and export.











    There would be hundreds of thousands of photos of Chinese "donating" face masks at police stations.


    Millions of Spaniards did not get a single mask, and the Chinese themselves long before we even imagined that the virus would arrive in Spain had exhausted the masks in Spanish pharmacies to send them to China.


    Now they had the masks under the bed?


    I imagine that they thought to dedicate themselves to the export of masks from Spain but this law has forced them to deliver them to avoid the legal consequences that could bring them and everything is disguised as altruism.

    The new law makes the Spanish Ministry of Health have full control over the manufacture, export and import of face masks, making it a crime for natives and foreigners to practice this practice.


    So the forums fell apart thanking the Chinese community in Spain and I was black and I told them how you can be so naive.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ... what good will? don’t fall for it, it’s a PR “dedication”, they’re putting lipstick on a pig.

    they already tried to blame others for the Pandemic.

    ... unbelievable!
    They're hoping everyone will forget that they knew about the virus, were forcing scientists to destroy evidence of it, and were punishing the doctors who wouldn't shut up about it all the way back in December..

    Mistakes are inevitable in these kinds of situations. No human being is perfect, no political leader is perfect.

    This is different. This is deliberate action which has put much of the world at risk of imminent economic collapse on top of the needless death and suffering. This is what happens when totalitarian governments are in power. There is no accountability, so they can do as they wish.

    The usual idiots will fall for this PR campaign, or course, the same idiots who said it was "racist" to close off travel from China. Remember that jerk the mayor of Firenze who told everyone to go hug a Chinese person to show Italians weren't racist? As if one thing has anything to do with the other.

    What Europeans "should" do is take the masks, and when this is all over remember what they did and deny them any inroads into your country's economy. They've already made serfs of most of Africa. Don't let them do it to Europe.

    Remember the old saying "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"? Now it's the Chinese, and it's not a wooden horse, it's masks and ventilators.

    (I don't have to say, do I, that I have fellow feeling for Greeks? The phrase came into use for a reason, because of a particular story written by Greeks, one of the masterpieces of world literature.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    They're hoping everyone will forget that they knew about the virus, were forcing scientists to destroy evidence of it, and were punishing the doctors who wouldn't shut up about it all the way back in December..

    Mistakes are inevitable in these kinds of situations. No human being is perfect, no political leader is perfect.

    This is different. This is deliberate action which has put much of the world at risk of imminent economic collapse on top of the needless death and suffering. This is what happens when totalitarian governments are in power. There is no accountability, so they can do as they wish.

    The usual idiots will fall for this PR campaign, or course, the same idiots who said it was "racist" to close off travel from China. Remember that jerk the mayor of Firenze who told everyone to go hug a Chinese person to show Italians weren't racist? As if one thing has anything to do with the other.

    What Europeans "should" do is take the masks, and when this is all over remember what they did and deny them any inroads into your country's economy. They've already made serfs of most of Africa. Don't let them do it to Europe.

    Remember the old saying "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"? Now it's the Chinese, and it's not a wooden horse, it's masks and ventilators.

    (I don't have to say, do I, that I have fellow feeling for Greeks? The phrase came into use for a reason, because of a particular story written by Greeks, one of the masterpieces of world literature.)
    I wholeheartedly agree, they created the problem, now they are pretending to be saviors. I hope the Chinese government is punished, they have blood on their hands. It would be better for the world if communism collapses in China, and the country is fractured into smaller free independent states.
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    This man is getting increasingly ridiculous. When he and his ministers made a public interview to talk about serious issues related to the Covid-19 pandemics, most of what he talked about was about how he is oh! so persecuted by the press, about how he should also be praised for the actions taken against the spread of the disease (not just his ministers), about how he is still so supported by the populace that the press wouldn't publicize a panelaço (public protests from inside the home using kitchen tools to make a huge noise collectively) in favor of his government (who on earth had even heard about a panelaço that is not against something? Ludicrous!)... Amidst this huge crisis, he is not helping and, to add insult to injury, only diminishes the severity of the problem and complains about what other authorities (governors, mayors) are doing. As we say here: muito ajuda quem não atrapalha ("one helps a lot if one doesn't disturb"). He's not governing, he's just annoying those who are really acting. For the first time, it seems Brazil is becoming a true federation, because the president is weak in anything that does not concern to political ideology and stupid party politics, so the governors are coming to the front and becoming the protagonists in this fight.
    I totally agree with you. I personally do not like many of the governors and mayors, but it is a fact that they are assuming their responsibility in the crisis, adopting a position of statesmen, overcoming disagreements and meeting to control the spread of the virus, taking the necessary containment measures, in the face of inertia of the President of the Republic. Thanks God we are a federation and, if this whole crisis served any purpose, it served so that we could act as a true federation of states for the first time in our history. I've posted this before and I'll post it again: Our President of the Republic suffers from cognitive impairment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I found the Ciccozzi paper. If I'm reading it correctly, one of the three clusters, and the most widespread, from other reading, forms a cluster with Southern Germany, which was detected there earlier.

    Two of the three clusters are in the Wuhan cluster. One can be traced to the tourist couple from Wuhan who were quarantined in Rome after they became ill. My understanding from prior analyses done by Americans is that there was no discernible spread from there. Another cluster is also Wuhan based, but the doctor doesn't describe the area or severity of spread.

    That's not helpful, if only because of all the speculation that somehow industrial and agricultural products from China are to blame. Even worst case estimates are that the virus only lives for three days on plastic and metal, but people are still speculating about this. We don't need this at a time when masks and ventilators are coming to Italy from China.

    We also don't want crazies to start looking at the Chinese residents in Prato and similar areas if it has nothing to do with them.

    I think the odds that two people from Jinjiang, where that particular set of mutations originated, both positive in a place where at that time it was barely present, then traveled to both Italy and Bergamo to infect others, are pretty slim.

    Italy closed access from China right away, and quarantined those Wuhan Chinese arrivals, but nobody was testing people crossing the Alps to come skiing.

    I'm not casting blame here. Contact tracing is never perfect, and quarantines often spring leaks. We just shouldn't be misinforming the public by refusing to be transparent.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1002/jmv.25773

    Some spread outside China was inevitable, but had China not lied to the world about it, we'd all be in better shape.

    That's why it sets my teeth on edge the way China is posturing about sending aid to Italy, and getting the Communist stooges in Cuba to send doctors as well. I'm sure most of the latter are well meaning, and the Cuban-American doctors I know are brilliant, but what medical schools did the descendants of those who stayed behind attend?
    According to my Argentinian doctor friend that did his residency at the Mayo Clinic, Cuban doctors are excellent. You actually don't have to go to Harvard to be a good doctor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    According to my Argentinian doctor friend that did his residency at the Mayo Clinic, Cuban doctors are excellent. You actually don't have to go to Harvard to be a good doctor.
    I'm thrilled to hear it, bigsnake. Fwiw, I don't think you have to go to Harvard Medical School to be a good doctor, but you have to keep up with the "state of the art" after the 1950s. Cuba is a disaster area; it's hard to credit it with up to date anything. Upon reflection, I suppose they might have been sending students to Russia or China for training and for access to the latest advances etc.

    As I said, I'm glad to hear it.

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    I guess in Europe the common sense is enough not to go with Chinese totalitarianism. It doesn't correspond with the European kind of democracy. I have a deeply trust in that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    According to my Argentinian doctor friend that did his residency at the Mayo Clinic, Cuban doctors are excellent. You actually don't have to go to Harvard to be a good doctor.
    Are you sure about it? I wander why Cuban doctors who immigrate to USA are not allowed to work in medical field without going to USA curriculum? I did not know that Cubans have the advanced technology to support medicine? I wander how the world medical students have not noticed the Excellency of Cuban schools, but still go to Harvard

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Are you sure about it? I wander why Cuban doctors who immigrate to USA are not allowed to work in medical field without going to USA curriculum? I did not know that Cubans have the advanced technology to support medicine? I wander how the world medical students have not noticed the Excellency of Cuban schools, but still go to Harvard
    Everybody has to take the boards in their specialty. Some redo their residency or fellowship.

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