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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    ... about the economy, President Trump translation :)

    ... We need to protect Salento’s money, and his wealth and health

    We need a balanced approach to limit the impacts of the pandemic crisis.

    A long term complete shut down is economically untenable,

    at some point (2 -3 weeks) we shall change strategy with tailored new guidelines,
    and depending on location and situation, sector by sector must return to some kind of normalcy.

    “we can walk and chew gum at the same time”

    ... after all we’re not Communists !

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    This week or at most the next week I have to manage to make a will, it will take a good peak, but I am more concerned about those who want to disinherit.

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    Paul Romer, economist, in the New York Times...

    "For decades, epidemiologists have warned us that we need to build a large national stockpile of such equipment to be ready when the next pandemic strikes. Because we failed to prepare, it will now take a massive surge in production to catch up.There is a desperate need for full protective equipment, but existing ones are cumbersome — complicated to put on and remove safely. As it boosts production of traditional equipment, the government should also fund a crash program to develop new and better types of protection.
    When it becomes available, this protection should be given to essential workers: first those in health care, and then pharmacists, police officers, firefighters and those who maintain public utilities and the supply of food. It should then be offered to everyone.
    As long as the risk of infection remains high, we need protective equipment that anyone who works in a grocery store, and anyone who shops there, will be comfortable wearing. Without waiting for the expanded system of tests to come online, we should set an ambitious goal — within two months, a return with protective equipment for 25 percent of all workers, and within four months, 75 percent of the work force."


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Bipartisan resolution condemns China's handling of coronavirus outbreak

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...virus-outbreak
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Bipartisan resolution condemns China's handling of coronavirus outbreak

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...virus-outbreak
    That will get us more ventilators, masks and gloves for sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    That will get us more ventilators, masks and gloves for sure!
    We're not cowards!

    They hid the beginning of the Pandemic,

    then we buried our heads in the sand out of necessity, and now we're burying our dead.

    We've had Enough!

    Now the Time has come to send a very clear message.

    ... and by the way, think how many lives could have been saved If they'd told us earlier what happened.

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    This virus is communist.

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    ATTENTION


    Diseases that cause immunodeficiency: The list is huge.


    I say this because in Spain the risk groups are announced as: Elderly, compromised immune system and traveling


    I have seen that in New York they have pointed to the H.I.V.


    Attention, danger, do something immediately to correct it.


    It is totally false, the V.I.H. Being chronic nowadays they can have the same expectations as the rest of the population and it is not the same as having a damaged immune system.


    Be careful and act immediately,they just put V.I.H. and not the 400,000 diseases that damage the immune system.


    It is possible to reassure the population that they are before the old and the sidosos, but when those scapegoats are exhausted, the old will be the people of 50 years and the sidosos will be the diabetics to give an example, nothing will have been achieved equally .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    50,000 died from the flu this year alone. In a way it is better that healthy people are exposed, and get over it. Older people, and those with health issues should remain isolated. But it is up to the rest of us to keep the country from going into another Great Depression.

    I heard they will have a swab-test soon. Once testing becomes more accessible, I would like to see if I had it already. If so, I will do my part in donating blood, to help create a vaccine.
    That can only be done safely - without the risk of causing a new and perhaps even bigger spike in the number of seriously ill and dead - when countries are able to test a reasonably high part of their population, identify the hotspots of infection (where isolation rules should be stricter), isolate the infected for at least 15 days, keep the people in groups under higher risk isolated for an even longer time, and so on. I don't think the USA or, for that matter, Brazil can do that yet without running into huge risks of public health (and a huge crisis in public health will inevitably become an economic crisis, too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Bipartisan resolution condemns China's handling of coronavirus outbreak

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...virus-outbreak
    That worries me. IMO the corona crisis will fuel the tensions in the US that are already there. The current frame of POTUS: it's a 'foreign' or 'Chinese' virus.

    As an outlet of this intensified tensions/ crisis there could be a deepened conflict with between the US and China. So as a kind of 'lightning conductor'.

    On a small scale we saw this in 1982 in the Falkland war between Argentina and the UK. At that time Margareth Thatcher had very bad polls. The Falkland war made here to the iron lady.....



    But an US-Chinese conflict is another cup of tea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    That can only be done safely - without the risk of causing a new and perhaps even bigger spike in the number of seriously ill and dead - when countries are able to test a reasonably high part of their population, identify the hotspots of infection (where isolation rules should be stricter), isolate the infected for at least 15 days, keep the people in groups under higher risk isolated for an even longer time, and so on. I don't think the USA or, for that matter, Brazil can do that yet without running into huge risks of public health (and a huge crisis in public health will inevitably become an economic crisis, too).
    there are still several bottlenecks to be resolved in order to increase testing capacity, they are working on it
    furthermore, someone who just got the virus and is still developping it in its early stages will test negative, but he can already contaminate others

    for the moment further spreading is contained by lockdown measures

    but for China where the lockdown is gradually released, testing is vital to detect new contaminations and to prevent the virus to spread again

    first the virus has to be contained by a general quarantaine
    when abolishing quarantine good monitoring by testing will be required

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    I can't believe this cute little animal might be the bat-to-human intermediary for coronavirus.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/what...-humans-2020-2
    Poor pangolins are NOT the culprits - responsible for being intermediary for coronavirus!

    "A recent study (under review) shows a genome of the coronavirus isolated from the Malaysian pangolin — called Manis javanica — is even less similar to SARS-CoV-2, with only 90% genomic overlap. This would mean the virus isolated in pangolins isn't responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic currently ravaging the world."
    https://interestingengineering.com/i...stinct-viruses

    The problem is that SARS-CoV-2 is a chimera virus!

    "However, the coronavirus isolated from pangolin shows an incredible 99% similarity specific to the region of the S protein, corresponding to 74 amino acids related to the ACE (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2) receptor binding domain; the one with which the virus enters human cells to infect them.

    Contrasting with this, the RaTG13 virus isolated from the R. affinis bat diverges significantly from that specific region (roughly 77% similarity, markedly lower). This means the coronavirus isolated from the pangolin can enter human cells, but the one from the R. affinis bat cannot.
    Additionally, this extensive comparison analysis suggests the SARS-CoV-2 virus is the creation of recombination between two separate and distinct viruses — one close to RaTG13, and the other closer to the virus isolated in the pangolin.
    Put simply, the COVID-19 coronavirus is a chimera between two other pre-existing viruses. For this to have happened, two distinct viruses need to infect the same organism simultaneously. While we don't know which animal (a pangolin, a bat, or some other species) played host to the chimeric mix, nor under what conditions the recombination took place, we're moving gradually closer to the solving the mystery of where and how the novel coronavirus came to be."

    Moreover, though the first infected with COVID-19 was not in the Wuhan wet market, the article says. I wish so much the truth is uncovered.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    That will get us more ventilators, masks and gloves for sure!
    Honestly, I don't understand your comment. What, you think all those legislators roaming around Congress can't take a few minutes to vote on a resolution? It's not like they're on the front lines like health professionals or even people in the executive branch federally and on the state and local level.

    You object to the resolution on some other basis?

    What's the problem with assigning blame where it really lies? China didn't make "mistakes" in dealing with the coronavirus; China hid the virus from the world, punishing doctors who raised the alarm in early December, forcing scientists to destroy their research at the same time. They didn't announce the existence of this new virus until January. By then people from Wuhan had flown around the globe.

    Now they go on their public relations offensive, delivering supplies to Europe. Screw them; we're not fooled, and it's good we put it on the record, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    We're not cowards!

    They hid the beginning of the Pandemic,

    then we buried our heads in the sand out of necessity, and now we're burying our dead.

    We've had Enough!

    Now the Time has come to send a very clear message.

    ... and by the way, think how many lives could have been saved If they'd told us earlier what happened.
    I was aware of it late December. Taiwan activated emergency measures including their pandemic Control Center late December. It was in the intelligence briefing Jan 3. The genome was available mid January. This thread was started Jan 26. China border was closed Jan 26. We had plenty of warning. We were more interested in the optics than actually doing something about it. If China can be faulted for something is that it stopped all medical exports (masks, gloves, disinfectants, ventilators). That should teach us a lesson to never again be dependent for basic medical supplies and machinery on China or any other country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post

    ATTENTION


    Diseases that cause immunodeficiency: The list is huge.


    I say this because in Spain the risk groups are announced as: Elderly, compromised immune system and traveling


    I have seen that in New York they have pointed to the H.I.V.


    Attention, danger, do something immediately to correct it.


    It is totally false, the V.I.H. Being chronic nowadays they can have the same expectations as the rest of the population and it is not the same as having a damaged immune system.


    Be careful and act immediately,they just put V.I.H. and not the 400,000 diseases that damage the immune system.


    It is possible to reassure the population that they are before the old and the sidosos, but when those scapegoats are exhausted, the old will be the people of 50 years and the sidosos will be the diabetics to give an example, nothing will have been achieved equally .
    What the heck are you talking about? HIV patients, just like patients on chemotherapy for cancer, or people taking immuno-suppressive drugs because of transplants or diseases like rheumatoid arthritis or Crohn's Disease etc. have actual immune deficiency. What is this 400,000 number you're throwing around?

    The list is of those who are to be PROTECTED, get it? People who have fragile immune symptoms because of their diseases or the drugs being taken to manage their diseases are more VULNERABLE to getting it.

    So, they're going to get protective materials first, and they may have to self-isolate until this gets under control.

    Take a breath, friend.

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    @ Angela

    This is for you

    Italy's production, made in Milano, not China,
    Made for export?

    https://www.ansa.it/sito/videogaller...fada02840.html

    https://vs.ansa.it/sito/video_mp4_ex...4171003441.mp4


    With this, I just want to express the Stupidity of modern open Free trade
    in the Peak of Corona pandemia in Italy,
    Italian Factories made hospital/medicine parts for export,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Ex girlfriend who was on chemotherapy for two years was finally on remission in December. For two years she was basically confined to her house because she was immuno-compromised. She was actually hospitalized for a week for some kind of infection she probably picked up at her doctor's office. So this situation is business as usual for her. But she is still very very vulnerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I was aware of it late December. It was in the intelligence briefing Jan 3. The genome was available mid January. We had plenty of warning. We were more interested in the optics than actually doing something about it. If China can be faulted for something is that it stopped all medical exports (masks, gloves, disinfectants, ventilators). That should teach us a lesson to never again be dependent for basic medical supplies and machinery on China or any other country.
    Excuse me. They knew about it in early DECEMBER. (Epidemiologists now place the first cases in late November.) That's when some doctors raised the alarm via the internet. Those doctors were punished; their names were put on a wall of shame. There are screen shots of it when it appeared in the Chinese media. Doctors researching the virus in DECEMBER were told to destroy their research; they also got punished for anti-state activity.

    They also didn't inform the rest of the world of the severity of the cases until at least mid to late January, by which time people from Wuhan had already seeded the damn thing all over the world.

    You truly don't think the Chinese government is at fault for any of those acts?

    We should instead be enraged at all of our own governments for making mistakes of judgment???

    You don't see the difference between the two situations?

    Look, I'm not going to debate this; if that's your mindset and propensity of thought, so be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Poor pangolins are NOT the culprits - responsible for being intermediary for coronavirus!

    "A recent study (under review) shows a genome of the coronavirus isolated from the Malaysian pangolin — called Manis javanica — is even less similar to SARS-CoV-2, with only 90% genomic overlap. This would mean the virus isolated in pangolins isn't responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic currently ravaging the world."
    https://interestingengineering.com/i...stinct-viruses

    The problem is that SARS-CoV-2 is a chimera virus!

    "However, the coronavirus isolated from pangolin shows an incredible 99% similarity specific to the region of the S protein, corresponding to 74 amino acids related to the ACE (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2) receptor binding domain; the one with which the virus enters human cells to infect them.

    Contrasting with this, the RaTG13 virus isolated from the R. affinis bat diverges significantly from that specific region (roughly 77% similarity, markedly lower). This means the coronavirus isolated from the pangolin can enter human cells, but the one from the R. affinis bat cannot.
    Additionally, this extensive comparison analysis suggests the SARS-CoV-2 virus is the creation of recombination between two separate and distinct viruses — one close to RaTG13, and the other closer to the virus isolated in the pangolin.
    Put simply, the COVID-19 coronavirus is a chimera between two other pre-existing viruses. For this to have happened, two distinct viruses need to infect the same organism simultaneously. While we don't know which animal (a pangolin, a bat, or some other species) played host to the chimeric mix, nor under what conditions the recombination took place, we're moving gradually closer to the solving the mystery of where and how the novel coronavirus came to be."

    Moreover, though the first infected with COVID-19 was not in the Wuhan wet market, the article says. I wish so much the truth is uncovered.

    Yes, I read that.

    They still haven't found the specific precursor virus in bats, although I understand that hunting down and testing bats isn't the first priority right now.

    I must admit I was a bit taken aback to learn that China's only facility for bio-weapons research is in Wuhan, but the experts keep saying it hasn't been doctored.

    Even if they're wrong, I doubt even the Chinese communists would deliberately loosen this on their own people.

    This kind of research is extremely dangerous, however, and people are fallible in following protocols. The only ones who really know if it leaked out of their lab are the Chinese leaders, and trust me, they'll never admit it even if it's true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What the heck are you talking about? HIV patients, just like patients on chemotherapy for cancer, or people taking immuno-suppressive drugs because of transplants or diseases like rheumatoid arthritis or Crohn's Disease etc. have actual immune deficiency. What is this 400,000 number you're throwing around?

    The list is of those who are to be PROTECTED, get it? People who have fragile immune symptoms because of their diseases or the drugs being taken to manage their diseases are more VULNERABLE to getting it.

    So, they're going to get protective materials first, and they may have to self-isolate until this gets under control.

    Take a breath, friend.

    Attention Danger

    Saying 400,000 is a way of speaking to say a large amount at a time when it is not necessary to be precise either since the discussion is not between coronavirus specialists nor are we in the O.N.U. EU. etc.


    Once he clarifies this that it was not necessary because it is perfectly understood but when used to discredit an argument I have to clarify it of course.


    It is evident that in New York they have specifically pointed out the bearers of V.I.H. something horrible if we consider that the guy, mayor or whatever they call him there previously is saying that they will have to choose and decide who will give the respirators and who will not and it is known that between someone young and old they will give it to the young man, so there HIV carriers in New York have already been pointed out when a V.I.H. it can have 500 Cd4 or the same as someone who is not a carrier, therefore it is one thing to say that a risk group is someone with a compromised immune system and another to say directly: H.I.V.

    There are many diseases that compromise the immune system. Why point V.I.H.?


    It is worrying because the model can be imitated by other countries.

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    Also under the category of criminal behavior, this time on an individual, not national level.

    Austrian ski resort being investigated for hiding the fact people were getting sick of the virus in order to protect their businesses.

    "
    • Austrian ski resort of Ischgl tied to hundreds of coronavirus infections in Europe
    • Probe has been launched over whether cases were covered up to protect trade
    • Investigation centres on barman who fell sick at one resort back in February "

    An Austrian ski resort dubbed 'Ibiza of the Alps' is being investigated over claims authorities covered up a coronavirus outbreak and allowed the virus to spread across Europe.
    Austrian officials have launched a probe into whether the popular Ischgl resort, in Tyrol province, purposefully chose not to report cases because it would hurt the tourist industry around the time of a key local election.
    Dominik Oberhofer, leader of the opposition, said questions need to be asked about the relationship between hoteliers and politicians who were in charge of overseeing the coronavirus response...

    The inquiry centres around reports a 36-year-old German barman at the Kitzloch pub who fell ill with COVID-19 in February.


    The resort has been linked to hundreds of cases in Austria, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Denmark.
    Despite concerns the virus was running rampant at the resort, the slopes and bars were allowed to stay open for weeks.
    German media has branded Ischgl 'the breeding ground' of coronavirus, while Norway believes almost half of the country's 1,198 cases were imported from Ischgl."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rus-cases.html

    I suppose you could say it was a massive error in judgment, although by late February everyone knew how contagious and deadly it was, and if you had people falling ill from it all around you...

    Well, that may be one factor in the lower percentage of deaths from it in Germany, in addition to differences in reporting. It seems a big percentage of the cases was in young people, and they apparently don't have much to do with their grandparents. When the young get it and get sick, they do better than the older people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Excuse me. They knew about it in early DECEMBER. (Epidemiologists now place the first cases in late November.) That's when some doctors raised the alarm via the internet. Those doctors were punished; their names were put on a wall of shame. There are screen shots of it when it appeared in the Chinese media. Doctors researching the virus in DECEMBER were told to destroy their research; they also got punished for anti-state activity.

    They also didn't inform the rest of the world of the severity of the cases until at least mid to late January, by which time people from Wuhan had already seeded the damn thing all over the world.

    You truly don't think the Chinese government is at fault for any of those acts?

    We should instead be enraged at all of our own governments for making mistakes of judgment???

    You don't see the difference between the two situations?

    Look, I'm not going to debate this; if that's your mindset and propensity of thought, so be it.
    Like I said, I was aware of it because of the same reports in late December. Do people not read anymore and just watch Fox and CNN? Plenty of time to prepare. I am sure we have spies in China that were aware of it even earlier. Taiwan was screening airplane passengers from China in late December. China did what they did and we did what we did.

    There are a lot of lessons to be learned. Governors have learned not to depend on the federal government. So did hospital administrators. Maybe we need to look at this federal union in a different light now and limit the power and the budget of the federal government. Or we need agencies that are independent of the political establishment. Something needs to change.

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    https://www.redaccionmedica.com/secc...de-riesgo-8591

    This is how we are presented in Europe at least in Spain

    Thus, the coronavirus risk groups are:

    People who are over 60 years old.
    Cardiovascular diseases and hypertension.
    Diabetes.
    Chronic lung diseases.
    Cancer.
    Immunosuppression.
    Pregnancy.


    Immunosuppression does not currently have to be exclusively HIV since, as is known with the new medication, it becomes chronic and the levels of Cd4 can be the same in an HIV carrier as in someone who is HIV-negative, in addition to causing the carrier you cannot transmit it or pick up the virud again. So I don't see why this medical picture should be specifically pointed out in the face of a huge number of diseases that cause immunodeficiency.

    I imagine that in New York someone must have already noticed and they will act accordingly.

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    25.03.2020 Daily statistics of worldwide confirmed cases of COVID-19




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    This paper comes with huge caveats: it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, I don't believe they can have the levels of the men pre-Covid 19, and we have no way of knowing if it's reversible. That said, this can happen if grown men get the mumps, too. It also seems to be the case that among the young who get seriously ill from COVID 19 it's young men, not young women.



    All the caveats haven't stopped the conspiracy theorists from going mad, i.e. sure, a virus that targets the old and leaves young men less fertile wasn't created as a possible population control method.

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