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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    by tomorrow the US will have more confirmed cases than Italy and (supposedly) China.

    ... tv talks about curves, ... all I see are vertical straight lines.

    in my State, the confirmed cases are skyrocketing, that said, three counties are considered part of the New York metropolitan area.
    I was wrong (don’t get used to it) :)

    it only took one hour for the US, (not a day) to overtake the World in confirmed cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    How has New York become so rapidly an epicenter of Covid-19? With more than 35,000 cases in a population of 19.5 million people, it's now more seriously affected by it than Italy (or it's testing more people, I don't know what's going on there now).
    I don't know, although I could site a lot of possible factors:

    Extreme density of population-hi-rises or single and 2 family homes attached on both sides

    A governor, who although he's doing a good job now, was one of those who said it was racist to block travel from China and other countries, that in a city serviced by three international airports.

    A mayor in New York City, the worst offender, who downplayed the risk for the same reason, and he and other city politicians encouraged people to go to the multiple Chinese Lunar New Year festivities to show "solidarity".

    (The mayor of New Orleans let the Mardis Gras festivities go on, and now Louisiana is catching up as a hot spot. Florida will be next, because they didn't close the beaches, close down the sale of alcohol, and disperse the idiot "Spring Breakers" partying all over. The over 65s are a huge percentage of the Florida population, so I predict a bloodbath, much as it pains me to think about it.)

    The same mayor delayed closing the schools out of concern that the inner city children wouldn't get their free meals. Laudable, but there were ways around it, as Governor Cuomo showed by handing him a plan for how they could get them.

    No attempt by said mayor to stop children and teenagers from huddling together on playgrounds playing basketball etc. Again, the governor had to demand a plan to control it.

    Finally, a huge percentage of New Yorkers, of all walks of life, go to work, shop, etc. by mass transit: buses and subways. They're open 24/7. I doubt most people, especially teen-agers, treat the turnstiles and bannisters like agents of the devil the way I always have. They're bound to be crawling with the virus. Yet, should they close them and really pen them in? I don't know. All I know is that I'm glad we moved out to the suburbs.

    The percentage of people in New York who can work from home (i.e. tech people etc.) is quite small compared to someplace like Washington State. There, even before the government issued stay at home orders, the big tech companies, who employ a big share of the population, closed down and had people work from home. There were also cancellations of mass gatherings.

    People made fun of them for being "snowflakes", but it might have had a big impact.

    Also, west coast cities are very spread out in terms of area, whereas New York had to build up or pack people in in different ways.

    Lastly, everybody has to have a car; no people using mass transit 24/7.

    In case you've never been to Queens:
    Flushing:very heavily East Asian now



    Ridgewood: a nice middle class area, still mostly German-American


    Astoria: once Italian and Greek, now increasingly a bedroom community for upper class commuters to Manhattan, although the oldtimers still hold on.




    This is the New York foreigners don't see. All these people take public transport, they're all in close proximity to each other in food stores, dry cleaners, churches etc.

    It's very different from Seattle or San Francisco. I like it better, but it's a perfect petri dish for this kind of outbreak. I would think Brazilian cities would be as well?


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    Parts of Astoria are also occupied by Middle Easterners and Indians.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    She's pretty optimistic, so perhaps they're starting to get a better handle on the number of infected but asymptomatic. Start at 1:08 in...


    I think what she's essentially telling Cuomo, if I'm reading the signals correctly, is that the models everyone's been using, some of them coming out of London, are wrong, and there will be fewer cases than he and a lot of others have been anticipating.

    I damn well hope she's right.

    She also said that nine states, 40% of the population, have been keeping the number of ill go down or stay the same, by using testing and contact tracing.

    She didn't answer how you stop people from hot zones from going to "cool" zones or counties. They tried that in Lombardia. It didn't work.

    What, are they going to cordon off New York City, New Orleans, Chicago, etc?

    It's like a freaking movie.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It has started,

    Countries that will not allow food exportation before they gather a good stock.




    I am sorry to be the bad news carrier,

    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    USA vs China,

    no matter where is our home,
    no matterwhere is our heart,
    this is a kind of tough battle,

    Coronavirus epoch is on rising at US,
    Coronavirus is about to knock down EU,

    by the aftermath and the damage,
    when we calcuate the damage,
    we will see changes, global changes,
    right now Coronavirus battle is also a global effect battle,
    by the end we may see global status changes,

    only the 8/1000 people hospital beds for emergency of coronavirus of Japan and china
    vs
    the 2/1000 people in the USA and most EU is enough to realise what is coming to WEST

    It will not be surprise to see China as global leader,
    Offcourse all this has to do with the damage of coronavirus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    USA vs China,

    no matter where is our home,
    no matterwhere is our heart,
    this is a kind of tough battle,

    Coronavirus epoch is on rising at US,
    Coronavirus is about to knock down EU,

    by the aftermath and the damage,
    when we calcuate the damage,
    we will see changes, global changes,
    right now Coronavirus battle is also a global effect battle,
    by the end we may see global status changes,

    only the 8/1000 people hospital beds for emergency of coronavirus of Japan and china
    vs
    the 2/1000 people in the USA and most EU is enough to realise what is coming to WEST

    It will not be surprise to see China as global leader,
    Offcourse all this has to do with the damage of coronavirus.
    The economy was not sick.

    They came to the conclusion that to save lives, everything has to stop.

    Many Countries have intentionally stopped their economy.

    Now we’re gonna see “My Country First” all over the World.

    Every Country will have to change their National Security import / export, and make important things themselves.

    ... If the Status Quo changes as you said, You're gonna Love China

    ... and today's critics will remember America with nostalgia and affection !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The economy was not sick.

    They came to the conclusion that to save lives, everything has to stop.

    Many Countries have intentionally stopped their economy.

    Now we’re gonna see “My Country First” all over the World.

    Every Country will have to change their National Security import / export, and make important things themselves.

    ... If the Status Quo changes as you said, You're gonna Love China

    ... and today's critics will remember America with nostalgia and affection !
    plz do not put words in my mouth,
    My only nostos (nostos+algos= nostalgy) is the traditional semi-mountain village I grew up,
    My only fear is the future of my daughters, until I see grandchildren

    have you wonder if we are the last who Lived in this kind of freedom?
    what freedom or what public safety, brings the future etc etc is another discussion,
    lets drink to the freedom we knew,
    the ancient spirit, red dry, no sweat sugars, wine,
    cause our grandchildren may never feel.

    if coronavirus succed, no matter how many we saved or how many we lost
    Humanity will turn a page,
    and open a new empty one to write her history.

    BTW,
    we all love our country,
    but I still Believe in the EU as it was at 1950's to end of 1980's.
    and is still standing, maybe trebling, but still power in her hands.
    away from USA economical schools
    away from Chinese communisto-capitalism, dictatorial unification, system

    So can you tell me what the future critic's will say or remember abou EU?

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    Country: Spain



    This afternoon a car was stolen from me at the supermarket, I was carrying the last tomatoes from the supermarket and I am talking inside without having paid yet.


    I found the car, I recognized my bag of tomatoes, there were already other products of the thief, I took out those products and I took the car again, and after a few minutes I see a Chinese woman with the products that I had taken out in my arms and looking for the car I say: it will be hard face.


    I knew the girl by sight, she has a Spanish boyfriend and had even been a client of mine for years, she goes to the European and has more face than back. But make it very clear, as you will do it to me again, I will break your face and that of your boyfriend. Of course I'm not going to do it, but that's how they think twice.


    This had never happened to me in my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    plz do not put words in my mouth,
    My only nostos (nostos+algos= nostalgy) is the traditional semi-mountain village I grew up,
    My only fear is the future of my daughters, until I see grandchildren

    have you wonder if we are the last who Lived in this kind of freedom?
    what freedom or what public safety, brings the future etc etc is another discussion,
    lets drink to the freedom we knew,
    the ancient spirit, red dry, no sweat sugars, wine,
    cause our grandchildren may never feel.

    if coronavirus succed, no matter how many we saved or how many we lost
    Humanity will turn a page,
    and open a new empty one to write her history.

    BTW,
    we all love our country,
    but I still Believe in the EU as it was at 1950's to end of 1980's.
    and is still standing, maybe trebling, but still power in her hands.
    away from USA economical schools
    away from Chinese communisto-capitalism, dictatorial unification, system

    So can you tell me what the future critic's will say or remember abou EU?
    There's no hostility on my part :)

    You said: “It will not be surprise to see China as global leader,” and I made a comment on it.

    ... to answer your question:

    imo the EU is still a work in progress, is too young, and its History is incomplete,

    only time can tell how it will be remembered.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I'll paste here a text about the present situation of the spread of Covid-19 in Brazil that I wrote in my personal account in the Q&A network Quora. Keep in mind I live in Fortaleza, the 3rd city most hardly hit in absolute numbers and 2rd most hardly hit in proportional terms.

    Cities in all the 27 federal units of Brazil (states and Federal District) have confirmed Covid-19 cases, but even the Ministry of Health concedes that the real number of cases is a lot higher, because they are only testing the most serious suspect cases so far, and we also know that some cities in Brazil are too small and poor, and some neighborhoods too poor and remote, for people to find a readily available Covid-19 test in case of suspect symptoms.
    The cities most heavily hit by the Covid-19 pandemic so far are generally large capital cities that receive more tourists and foreign passengers, and where agglomerations of people, including lots of people from other parts of the country, are far more common than in middle-sized and small-sized cities. The larger and wealthier cities are also where more hospitals and public health institutions are easily found, and where tests for Covid-19 are certainly more available for the population, so that also makes the concentration of Covid-19 cases in big metropolitan areas even higher than it must in fact be.
    The cities most impacted by the pandemic till this moment (March 26th) are mainly:
    —— IN ABSOLUTE NUMBERS:

    • São Paulo (Southeast): 728




    • Rio de Janeiro (Southeast): 366




    • Fortaleza (Northeast): 222




    • Brasília (Midwest): 203




    • Belo Horizonte (Southeast): 96
    • Porto Alegre (South): 87
    • Curitiba (South): 71
    • Manaus (Northwest): 63
    • Salvador (Northeast): 63
    • Recife (Northeast): 38

    —— IN RELATIVE TERMS (Number of cases/1 million inhabitants)
    The table below ranks Brazilian cities by the infection rate (the columns refer to: number of cases, population in million inhabitants, rate of cases/1 million inhabitants). This ranking differs quite a bit from the ranking that pertains to the total number of cases:


    Source: Mapa Coronavírus no Brasil – Bem Estar - G1




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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    plz do not put words in my mouth,
    My only nostos (nostos+algos= nostalgy) is the traditional semi-mountain village I grew up,
    My only fear is the future of my daughters, until I see grandchildren

    have you wonder if we are the last who Lived in this kind of freedom?
    what freedom or what public safety, brings the future etc etc is another discussion,
    lets drink to the freedom we knew,
    the ancient spirit, red dry, no sweat sugars, wine,
    cause our grandchildren may never feel.

    if coronavirus succed, no matter how many we saved or how many we lost
    Humanity will turn a page,
    and open a new empty one to write her history.

    BTW,
    we all love our country,
    but I still Believe in the EU as it was at 1950's to end of 1980's.
    and is still standing, maybe trebling, but still power in her hands.
    away from USA economical schools
    away from Chinese communisto-capitalism, dictatorial unification, system

    So can you tell me what the future critic's will say or remember abou EU?
    I agree with you yetos, the EU and the ideas behind it, certainly after two bloody wars, and the role in the spread of democracy (Greece, Spain) was crucial.

    Now we see a revival of the nation state, especially regarding the corona virus. Still it shows also that we are and we will stay global connected, or we have the cut of the www for example ;)

    And especially fighting the corona crisis needs cooperation between not only EU but also US and commonwealth. And even China. Combining knowledge and sources is better than all nations fighting for their own.....

    But know we see that the last thing is the case, all countries are hunting after test, masks, ventilators etc etc.

    Hopefully the countries are taking suitable measures now. If they fail this has not only a backlash on this nation as such but worldwide.
    Simple add (was on TV yesterday). A company in Aalsmeer Holland is expanding 100.000 roses a day to the US, England, France, Poland, you name it....now its down to 20.000 a day. When countries are falling in deep crises this level will never be reached again.

    The indices are in this respect not positive...like I said to Jovialis I have the feeling 'winter is coming' (although Easter is right in front of us).

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    I have always been suspicious of the EU not as an idea but as an implementation. The poorer countries (Spain, Portugal, Greece) lost whatever manufacturing infrastructure they had before entering the EU since they could not compete with the Siemens' of the world. On top of that they lost control of devaluing their currencies to make their products more competitive. Did Germany invest in Greece or Portugal or Spain? No. They still think of them as markets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I have always been suspicious of the EU not as an idea but as an implementation. The poorer countries (Spain, Portugal, Greece) lost whatever manufacturing infrastructure they had before entering the EU since they could not compete with the Siemens' of the world. On top of that they lost control of devaluing their currencies to make their products more competitive. Did Germany invest in Greece or Portugal or Spain? No. They still think of them as markets.
    True,
    but that is mainly after the 1990's,
    When EU adopted the open and free trade and capitals all over the world,
    for example EU corporations after 2006 invest more money outside EU, than in poor and smaller EU countries,
    this also has to do with the strong Euro of that era, 1 E reached to 1.65 $ for almost half a year,
    But EU's problem is the fiscal Union,
    no matter the cuurency Union, Eurozone, Europe did not manage to enter to a fiscal Union,
    the era is critical,
    AND I DO NOT THINK IS EUROPE AND ITS PEOPLE
    BUT RATHER THE CHARACTER OF CORPORATIONS
    that EU must check and control.
    returning back to Kaynes model of 50-70's Europe,
    is more easy to achive fiscal Union,
    in modern Europe more people are working at cafe, than in agriculture or in industry,

    after 2000 we have reached to a model where a product ...
    is consumed in country A of EU
    (taxattion of consume)
    packaged in a country B or outside EU
    (really I do not know the taxation conditions in this case)
    parts from outside EU
    (who knows what taxation conditions, sometimes 0%)
    taxated by a country C of EU
    (taxation of profits)
    earnings go to a country D or USA or China etc

    99% of mobile telephones write
    παρασκευαζεται στην Κινα
    Συσκευαζεται στην ΕΕ 'η στην Ελλαδα (for taxation reasons)
    made in China for X corporation
    packaged in EU (for taxation reasons)

    AND ALL THIS WHY?
    Cause EU as descent union of countries has laws about enviromental polution,
    which corporations do not like,
    cause filtering your industrial damage, or use of more enviroment friendly COSTS
    since you have Greek flag, then you know that all Greeks pay a fine to EU for electric power production,
    and lemphomas raise 300-500% at W Makedonia, for the old methods and no filters of ΔΕΗ

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I have always been suspicious of the EU not as an idea but as an implementation. The poorer countries (Spain, Portugal, Greece) lost whatever manufacturing infrastructure they had before entering the EU since they could not compete with the Siemens' of the world. On top of that they lost control of devaluing their currencies to make their products more competitive. Did Germany invest in Greece or Portugal or Spain? No. They still think of them as markets.
    I completely agree.

    Now the EU is talking about an EU Marshall Plan. It's not altruism; what will Germany do without its markets?

    If countries like Italy, Spain and Greece fall for it they're making a terrible decision, imo.

    Unfortunately, given the experiences of the last months, there may be more sentiment to accept that kind of help from China than from the EU, and then they'll really be serf countries, just like the ones in Africa.

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    The coronavirus will give birth to a new Europe where the identity issues of the 19th or 20th century will be left behind and it was already something necessary in the U.E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I have always been suspicious of the EU not as an idea but as an implementation. The poorer countries (Spain, Portugal, Greece) lost whatever manufacturing infrastructure they had before entering the EU since they could not compete with the Siemens' of the world. On top of that they lost control of devaluing their currencies to make their products more competitive. Did Germany invest in Greece or Portugal or Spain? No. They still think of them as markets.
    The EU was very much started as 'no more war' and 'let's get together' in the fifties, with France and Germany as engines of it.

    For example in Spain it played a part in the transition from the junta of Franco to a democracy.....in the eighties and nineties there were lot's of EU investments in these countries (not only to produce a market, but also to lift the welfare of Spain!).

    Nowadays the EU has widened very much, in some way you have to share more than pure economics and markets but the EU is IMO too diverse to function like the US does. And remember even the young US had a war before it was unified. And that in a situation with no long established cultural etc differences. The cultural differences are considerate within the EU.

    Now the nations 'pop up' again (they already did the Brexit did not fall from heaven). They are crucial in for example the corona approach. Now Spain speaks indeed about a Marshall plan. All right but the Germans, Dutch and Danes etc are quite reserved (no spend spend spend or let the euro print roll), the Dutch PM 'doesn't want odd things'. I guess especially the Germans are allergic for inflation, that was one of the economic factors why the Weimar republic went down.

    This makes it all very complex.....But I don't think the Chinese will have that foot on the ground like in Africa. Apples and oranges.

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    Whatever the cost of human life from the coronavirus is, countries will need to reevaluate globalism and free trade. This crisis points out in stark black and white the vulnerabilities of the current system.
    1. For the US, I hope it leads to less federal power and more power to local governors since once again the federal bureaucracy was unable to deal with this crisis. Too many fiefdoms and not enough coordination.
    2. From a supply chain of view the JIT (just-in-time) model is extremely vulnerable to disruptions in the supply chain. There need to be some stockpiling somewhere so that hospitals are not ever caught without supplies again
    3. China is not a reliable supplier for critical items since they imposed export restrictions on medical items. Critical items cannot be at the whim of somebody else.
    4. Due to unrestricted cheap travel, diseases can go from one end of the world to the other in a matter of hours. You can't close off the borders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Whatever the cost of human life from the coronavirus is, countries will need to reevaluate globalism and free trade. This crisis points out in stark black and white the vulnerabilities of the current system.
    1. For the US, I hope it leads to less federal power and more power to local governors since once again the federal bureaucracy was unable to deal with this crisis. Too many fiefdoms and not enough coordination.
    2. From a supply chain of view the JIT (just-in-time) model is extremely vulnerable to disruptions in the supply chain. There need to be some stockpiling somewhere so that hospitals are not ever caught without supplies again
    3. China is not a reliable supplier for critical items since they imposed export restrictions on medical items. Critical items cannot be at the whim of somebody else.
    4. Due to unrestricted cheap travel, diseases can go from one end of the world to the other in a matter of hours. You can't close off the borders.
    Back to the days of mercantilism?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

    No cheap tourism in South European countries will be disastrous for their economy.

    You can't turn back the clock bigsnake.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Whatever the cost of human life from the coronavirus is, countries will need to reevaluate globalism and free trade. This crisis points out in stark black and white the vulnerabilities of the current system.
    1. For the US, I hope it leads to less federal power and more power to local governors since once again the federal bureaucracy was unable to deal with this crisis. Too many fiefdoms and not enough coordination.
    2. From a supply chain of view the JIT (just-in-time) model is extremely vulnerable to disruptions in the supply chain. There need to be some stockpiling somewhere so that hospitals are not ever caught without supplies again
    3. China is not a reliable supplier for critical items since they imposed export restrictions on medical items. Critical items cannot be at the whim of somebody else.
    4. Due to unrestricted cheap travel, diseases can go from one end of the world to the other in a matter of hours. You can't close off the borders.
    Again, I completely agree.

    How anyone can think, looking at the behavior of the members of the EU after the past month or so, on top of the "you're on your own" attitude to the problem of the refugees, that Germany and countries of their ilk will suddenly stop being nationalists and start caring what the hell happens in Southern Europe, is beyond me.

    If they do go ahead with a "Marshall Plan for Europe", it will be to make sure they still have markets. I guarantee you they won't be building factories which could compete with the ones in Northern Europe.

    One of the few things which give me hope is that the support for the EU in Italy has plummeted. Don't fall for the propaganda again, Italy. Don't trust them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Back to the days of mercantilism?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

    No cheap tourism in South European countries will be disastrous for their economy.

    You can't turn back the clock bigsnake.....
    The Southern European counties do not need cheap tourists, they need the tourists that spend a lot of money. Fortunately, more and more the airlines that precipitated cheap tourism are in receivership or closed.

    I was in Southern Crete on vacation. There was a hotel there on the beach that catered exclusively to Swedes. The hotel was owned by a Swedish travel company. They were flown on chartered planes to Heraklion and were immediately bussed to their hotel. The buses were Swedish. All meals were included in the package. Most if not all employees at the hotel were Swedish except for the cleaning ladies and the dishwashers who were Albanians. The local economy did not profit at all from their presence. Why should we want these kind of tourists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The Southern European counties do not need cheap tourists, they need the tourists that spend a lot of money. Fortunately, more and more the airlines that precipitated cheap tourism are in receivership or closed.

    I was in Southern Crete on vacation. There was a hotel there on the beach that catered exclusively to Swedes. The hotel was owned by a Swedish travel company. The were flown on chartered planes to Heraklion and were immediately bussed to their hotel. The buses were Swedish. All meals were included in the package. Most if not all employees at the hotel were Swedish except for the cleaning ladies and the dishwashers who were Albanians. The local economy did not profit at all from their presence. Why should we want these kind of tourists?
    Exactly right. The same thing is true in Italy. Whole swaths of the Adriatic Coast are leased to German tourism companies for German campers. They don't even eat in the restaurants or go to the bars. They bring food with them to prepare in their campers, their own beer, and on and on.

    Who needs them?

    At least the Brits and the Americans spend money.

    When this is over, cancel all those leases and release all that prime beachfront.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The Southern European counties do not need cheap tourists, they need the tourists that spend a lot of money. Fortunately, more and more the airlines that precipitated cheap tourism are in receivership or closed.

    I was in Southern Crete on vacation. There was a hotel there on the beach that catered exclusively to Swedes. The hotel was owned by a Swedish travel company. They were flown on chartered planes to Heraklion and were immediately bussed to their hotel. The buses were Swedish. All meals were included in the package. Most if not all employees at the hotel were Swedish except for the cleaning ladies and the dishwashers who were Albanians. The local economy did not profit at all from their presence. Why should we want these kind of tourists?
    That is what I said before, about corporations, 3-4 corporations control all tourist industry in Europe.
    by the way,
    If Itravel to USA, and go to Florida or NY, what will I see?
    Big Hotels that belong to corporation that belongs to another corporation, that belongs to another corporation,
    and immigrants with green card working there, closed at the basement, or on floors with a vacuum cleaner at hand,
    workers like 'non habla Inglese' (plz this has nothing to do with racism, but with the image)

    on contradictory, my area lives from cheap tourism of Balkans till baltic lands,
    that come with family and spend max 250 E for 5-7 days room, bringing even their food, frozen, with the car,
    their max spend is about 50-100 E the week for a family of 4,
    but they are millions, and come every year,
    that is why I have enough friends in Balkans.
    my second cousin is married with a Polish lady, she was coming every year for 5 years, by train, and rent a room far from sea, to lower the cost,

    Yet some Greeks, wanted to slain the golden goose, and become rich in a year or two,
    and treated these people ugly, with different prices etc etc.

    my brother in law (+2018) has 8 rooms for rent for summer tourist vacation,
    9/10 customers are the same each year, and they are not rich,
    that is the tourism we need,
    happy satisfied people that will return next year, or advertise to their friends,
    not rich and ugly people with their ' I want'

    It is not morale to harash a tourist when enters your country,
    it is wise to help him leave your country with a smile,
    so he will advertise you, and come back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post

    You can't turn back the clock bigsnake.....
    I think the only way out, is forward.

    Perhaps this was part of the reason why South Korea was less impacted by the spread of Covid-19:



    South Korea has been investing heavily in robotics, due to their aging population, and low-birth rate. Perhaps countries like Italy would benefit from doing the same, since they are experiencing a similar dynamic in their demographics. It would be a better alternative, and less expensive than importing young immigrants to fill the jobs, who also require public assistance. If the rest of the world did the same, than we would have no need for China's de facto slavery. Everything would be produced locally, at an even cheaper cost.
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The Southern European counties do not need cheap tourists, they need the tourists that spend a lot of money. Fortunately, more and more the airlines that precipitated cheap tourism are in receivership or closed.

    I was in Southern Crete on vacation. There was a hotel there on the beach that catered exclusively to Swedes. The hotel was owned by a Swedish travel company. They were flown on chartered planes to Heraklion and were immediately bussed to their hotel. The buses were Swedish. All meals were included in the package. Most if not all employees at the hotel were Swedish except for the cleaning ladies and the dishwashers who were Albanians. The local economy did not profit at all from their presence. Why should we want these kind of tourists?

    I see the sum of tourism and the spending in the different countries and that's is quite considerate:
    https://www.southeusummit.com/europe...rcial-wipeout/

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