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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Macron: "Some act as if Spain and Italy were responsible for the virus"



    https://www.lavanguardia.com/interna...heUIk0b26sVTmU

    Together with Giuseppe Conte, they called on Thursday at the European Council to create Eurobonds to face a historic crisis. Germany and the Netherlands blocked it. Is there a risk of implosion of the Eurozone and the EU?

    "It is a historic moment, France will fight for a Europe of solidarity"


    I will ask Portugal and France to marry the only ones that have shown a minimum of sensitivity and humanity.

    In any case, it is already a clamor for the networks and a yes / no U.E.referendum is spreading like wildfire.
    And there you have it...

    What have I been saying all along about their attitude? They'd rather blame Italy and Spain than China. Of course they need China right now. Many of their companies have lucrative deals with China.

    Did any other countries vote no?

    I said I'd try to keep my political commentary out of this thread, so all I'll add is: HAVE THE DAMN YES/NO REFERENDUM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Macron: "Some act as if Spain and Italy were responsible for the virus"



    https://www.lavanguardia.com/interna...heUIk0b26sVTmU

    Together with Giuseppe Conte, they called on Thursday at the European Council to create Eurobonds to face a historic crisis. Germany and the Netherlands blocked it. Is there a risk of implosion of the Eurozone and the EU?

    "It is a historic moment, France will fight for a Europe of solidarity"


    I will ask Portugal and France to marry the only ones that have shown a minimum of sensitivity and humanity.

    In any case, it is already a clamor for the networks and a yes / no U.E.referendum is spreading like wildfire.

    It is definitely becoming more and more of a clamor in Italy based on the news sources I watch on Youtube. On another note, I am shocked Macron broke from the EU Power Broker from Germania, Ms. Merkel.

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    A fun little moment.
    An engineer quarantined with his little baby. At this time, the front line in combating the pandemic is made up of health professionals. But, at the rearguard, we also have the valued engineering professionals working on the customization of mechanical and electronic equipment to adapt them to the assembly lines of ventilation equipment and others used in hospitals' ICUs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    technically the Executive (The President) in a super emergency declaration trumps :) the Governors

    ... It's better for everyone if they all get along!

    ... so Australia throws Priests in jail, ... wtf is wrong with ...
    they are like everyone else........do a crime, go to jail .............no one exempt , populace support this and want this

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    they are like everyone else........do a crime, go to jail .............no one exempt , populace support this and want this
    Torzio: So if an elderly person who is Catholic say in Northern Italy or lets say in the USA has basically been told they are on their own, which has been going on in Italy and could get to that point here if they start rationing Ventilators is visited by a Catholic priest to administer the Sacraments and Last Rite, that Priest should go to jail, even if the only person he is endangering is himself. From what I can tell, that is actually what has happened in Northern Italy. Priests have been leaving their parish Church to visit the dying to administer Last Rites and many of them too have died. They have not infected people other than their own dying parishioners. So tell me what exactly is the Crime that the Catholic Priest(s) in Northern Italy did? Visiting their dying parishioners is a crime? or should be a crime?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Torzio: So if an elderly person who is Catholic say in Northern Italy or lets say in the USA has basically been told they are on their own, which has been going on in Italy and could get to that point here if they start rationing Ventilators is visited by a Catholic priest to administer the Sacraments and Last Rite, that Priest should go to jail, even if the only person he is endangering is himself. From what I can tell, that is actually what has happened in Northern Italy. Priests have been leaving their parish Church to visit the dying to administer Last Rites and many of them too have died. They have not infected people other than their own dying parishioners. So tell me what exactly is the Crime that the Catholic Priest(s) in Northern Italy did? Visiting their dying parishioners is a crime? or should be a crime?
    He ( priest ) is spreading the virus if he enters the house, besides its a week argument......if you are sick , you are in hospital, so if you are home, you are not sick and you need to see no-one

    there are confessions done in australia, with a priest outside sitting on a chair , a car drives up 2 metres away , and they do confessions there

    If you let priests do what you say, then he will infect other people, you make no sense in thinking this is how it should be done

    Priests do a crime, they go to jail like every other citizen

    It is not done in the Veneto, my 2 first cousins, who I chat with every 2 days, say none is allowed to visit anybody even priests are stopped and told to go back to the church

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    Germany -
    6824 new cases and 82 new deaths to 552 new cases and 22 new deaths.
    Edit:It's updated +2586 but still a lot less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    And there you have it...

    What have I been saying all along about their attitude? They'd rather blame Italy and Spain than China. Of course they need China right now. Many of their companies have lucrative deals with China.

    Did any other countries vote no?

    I said I'd try to keep my political commentary out of this thread, so all I'll add is: HAVE THE DAMN YES/NO REFERENDUM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
    The newspaper De Volksrant had a prudence comment a few days ago:

    European heads of government today speak about the fight against the pandemic, but also about the European economy after corona. This is discussed in terms reminiscent of the war. For example, Spanish Prime Minister Sánchez asked for a European Marshall Plan.


    The southern European countries are - as yet - most affected and rightly ask for solidarity from their European brothers. The Netherlands and other Northern European countries also have an interest in supporting Southern Europe. Economic, because the breakup of the eurozone would cause enormous damage. And geopolitical: in a turbulent world, a powerful European bloc offers the best protection.


    Countries such as the Netherlands and Germany benefit greatly from the internal market and, to a lesser extent, the euro. Therefore, they should be generous. The strict fiscal rules in the eurozone have rightly been abandoned. Other forms of support, such as the euro emergency fund, should temporarily not be linked to the demand for austerity and reform of the economy. At this time, austerity would only deepen the crisis. Northern Europe is also abandoning its budgetary orthodoxy as a result of the pandemic.


    The situation is different with instruments that bind Northern and Southern Europe more closely together, such as the issue of euro or corona bonds. Many Northern European countries have put their finances in order in recent years, often at the expense of painful budget cuts. In a country like Italy, on the other hand, too little has happened to reduce the national debt and increase productivity.


    Italy and other countries need to be helped, but European leaders will have to find a balance between European and national interests. If Southern Europe is abandoned, it will lead to a violent reaction against the European Union. The corona crisis will also leave deep economic traces in Northern Europe. If Northern Europeans then feel that they have to pay disproportionately for countries that do not put their own house in order, the anti-European reaction will take place in the North.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    He ( priest ) is spreading the virus if he enters the house, besides its a week argument......if you are sick , you are in hospital, so if you are home, you are not sick and you need to see no-one

    there are confessions done in australia, with a priest outside sitting on a chair , a car drives up 2 metres away , and they do confessions there

    If you let priests do what you say, then he will infect other people, you make no sense in thinking this is how it should be done

    Priests do a crime, they go to jail like every other citizen

    It is not done in the Veneto, my 2 first cousins, who I chat with every 2 days, say none is allowed to visit anybody even priests are stopped and told to go back to the church
    Ok, fair enough. I see what you are getting at. When the elderly are dead, I think Italy allows their remains to be sent to the Local parish Church, if that is what the dying person and his/her family wanted, and their can be a requiem Liturgy prayer said for the dead by the priest in the Church (even though nobody from the family legally come to the requiem Liturgy or prayer, etc). They are allowing that in Northern Italy, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Ok, fair enough. I see what you are getting at. When the elderly are dead, I think Italy allows their remains to be sent to the Local parish Church, if that is what the dying person and his/her family wanted, and their can be a requiem Liturgy prayer said for the dead by the priest in the Church (even though nobody from the family legally come to the requiem Liturgy or prayer, etc). They are allowing that in Northern Italy, correct?
    Unsure...I will ask my cousins today about how it is done ....................if I was to guess, the body would be taken from the hospital morgue directly to the funeral home, maybe the priest does the rites there, then they are either buried or burned

    as for my family, both paternal side and maternal, we were taught that you do not need a priest to pray to God...............you do not even need a religious institution , its not like they ( religious instituations ) created God

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    I said no political attacks on here, and none of your rabid anti-religious posts either, Torzio. You don't believe in God, you hate organized religion, you want it controlled by the state, you hate priests and ministers and rabbis.

    WE GET IT. Give it a rest.

    If religious organizations, of any denomination, insist on holding services in defiance of public health dictates in the midst of an emergency, the doors should be locked down.

    Stop focusing on one idiot minister.

    Can we try to keep things rational and not sow division between us?

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    Country: Spain



    The face of the victims.

    Isabel, the rural doctor with 1,300 patients in her charge who died alone and isolated by Covid-19 in Salamanca




    Baby dies of coronavirus in Chicago; would be the first in the US
    https://www.telemundoutah.com/notici...-eeuu/1990796/

    The head of the anti-terrorist elite of the Civil Guard dies from coronavirus


    https://www.elnortedecastilla.es/nac...acebook.com%2F

    A patient dies 36 hours after leaving the ICU due to coronavirus
    https://www.marca.com/tiramillas/act...6258b4610.html



    We will see many people die, famous, politicians among the thousands of anonymous.


    If the world is not able to unite and share what it has more than to share what is left over if it is not in this pandemic, it will be the end of humanity in the next.

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    Is the coronavirus more deadly in Spain and Italy because more of them smoke than say Americans or Germans? Or is it a statistical artifact as we discussed above?

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Unsure...I will ask my cousins today about how it is done ....................if I was to guess, the body would be taken from the hospital morgue directly to the funeral home, maybe the priest does the rites there, then they are either buried or burned

    as for my family, both paternal side and maternal, we were taught that you do not need a priest to pray to God...............you do not even need a religious institution , its not like they ( religious instituations ) created God
    Well I respect individual liberty. However, there are some who still believe in the notion of the Church as a Communion of Christ and all believers, deceased and leaving, hence Catholic, i.e., Universal from the Greek Katholikos. So I still hold to the Nicene and Apostles Creed, the overwhelming amount of my Sicilian-Italian ancestors here in the USA, 120-130 years after immigration still hold to the faith of my/our ancestors down through the centuries. Others may no longer hold to that. Fair enough. I was only asking about those Italians who still hold to the faith of their ancestors that has seen the rise and fall of many secular empires and will be here after these secular empires today don't exist in the future. They have rights as well to practice their faith just as you and your family have the right to not do so.

    I would hope in death that the Regional Governments of Northern Italy haven't gotten so anti-Religious as to not allow the deceased people from their Regions a basic Requiem funeral Liturgy of some sort. And this idiot Protestant minister in Louisiana holding a service for 1,000 people is much different than a Catholic Priest by Himself giving a Requiem Liturgical prayer for a deceased person in a coffin at a Local Church or Funeral Home in Northern Italy. I don't think those 2 situations are remotely comparable, again in my opinion.

    And again, I am not here to judge anyone's beliefs or non beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    And there you have it...

    What have I been saying all along about their attitude? They'd rather blame Italy and Spain than China. Of course they need China right now. Many of their companies have lucrative deals with China.

    Did any other countries vote no?

    I said I'd try to keep my political commentary out of this thread, so all I'll add is: HAVE THE DAMN YES/NO REFERENDUM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
    Angela
    it is called the move of 11 and now 12
    11+1 countries ask for Corona-bonds
    4 countries opposed,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    As for church, no matter Catholic protestant or Orthodox,
    or Islamic religion,

    from days now, here in Greece are open for personal pray, with max 10 person inside includiing priest,
    and according the m2, 15m2, for allowed person to enter,
    NO LITURGIE IS ALLOWED,
    Divine Communication is suspended here,


    2 Bishops and 3 priest already here face the judge, waiting for the court, for breaking the law,
    21 muslim immigrants have same treaty, for having turn an appartment to Monsk and pray,
    WE WILL NOT HAVE TRADITIONAL EASTER, (Easter in Greece is like Christmas or 4th of July in America)
    the 3 days of Easter is the ultimate bet,

    and for funerals, I have posted a photo, They are done under permission,
    I post it again,
    No open coffin, max 10 relatives at ceremony according the m2 of church inside
    , and at cemetery distances of 2 meters min,
    and personally, I do not know how safe it is, but precautions are taken according law and science,


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    And there you have it...

    What have I been saying all along about their attitude? They'd rather blame Italy and Spain than China. Of course they need China right now. Many of their companies have lucrative deals with China.

    Did any other countries vote no?

    I said I'd try to keep my political commentary out of this thread, so all I'll add is: HAVE THE DAMN YES/NO REFERENDUM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
    My Commentary is only regarding what I hope Italy does, not speaking for any other country as to what they should or not do, as I have no ancestral ties to any other country. I hope Italy votes out of the EU. Get control of their own borders and create policies that provide incentives that encourage Italian local businesses to manufacture key supplies, medical and food, first and foremost. Work with countries like the UK, and the USA. Italy has been one of the most loyal USA allies with 7 NATO bases starting in Catania, Sicily (Navy) to Army base I think it is North of Venice, with bases located in prime areas between Naples and Rome (Navy) and Army base in Tuscany. That is something I think the Italians have that the USA respects and values and can be used to develop more strategic relationships beyond NATO, ie. Economic. There are over 17 million Americans of Italian ancestry who love to visit Italy and buy lots of imported products from Italy, Wine, Cheese, Olives, Pasta, etc. Italy has over 300 ports best I can tell. That can be leveraged in terms of Italy impacting supply chains and transportation of goods throughout the Continent. From what I can tell, relations with Spain and Greece are very good (at least that is what I observed when I was there last Summer, again sample is only based on being in Sicily and Rome). So I think those are 2 other countries that Italy could easily negotiate direct bilateral trade deals with.

    UK and Brexit did not cause the Sun to not rise in the East and Set in the West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    My Commentary is only regarding what I hope Italy does, not speaking for any other country as to what they should or not do, as I have no ancestral ties to any other country. I hope Italy votes out of the EU. Get control of their own borders and create policies that provide incentives that encourage Italian local businesses to manufacture key supplies, medical and food, first and foremost. Work with countries like the UK, and the USA. Italy has been one of the most loyal USA allies with 7 NATO bases starting in Catania, Sicily (Navy) to Army base I think it is North of Venice, with bases located in prime areas between Naples and Rome (Navy) and Army base in Tuscany. That is something I think the Italians have that the USA respects and values and can be used to develop more strategic relationships beyond NATO, ie. Economic. There are over 17 million Americans of Italian ancestry who love to visit Italy and buy lots of imported products from Italy, Wine, Cheese, Olives, Pasta, etc. Italy has over 300 ports best I can tell. That can be leveraged in terms of Italy impacting supply chains and transportation of goods throughout the Continent. From what I can tell, relations with Spain and Greece are very good (at least that is what I observed when I was there last Summer, again sample is only based on being in Sicily and Rome). So I think those are 2 other countries that Italy could easily negotiate direct bilateral trade deals with.

    UK and Brexit did not cause the Sun to not rise in the East and Set in the West.
    it is not like this, or such easy,
    just only think the exclusives sea interest economical zones,
    and the money Italy spend on Balkans,
    as also the pipelines already exist and will be done to Italy,
    Yet that is a desicion of Italians

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    Cigarette consumption in Europe: That isn't the difference, as Germans smoke more.








    Younger people picked it up, they spread it to their older relatives. We're also a touchy, kissy, huggy people. I'm not going to regret it or suggest we change. Mental health is important too, but our strengths, in this particular situation, may have turned into weaknesses.

    Pollution in Lombardia may also be a part of it, as may the transparency of the Italian numbers versus those of other countries, or there's a lag, or it's the super-spreader soccer match, like the Mardi Gras in New Orleans or the Chinese Lunar Day parades in New York, or they got off to a late start because they couldn't find Patient 0. Now that we know there are quite a few false negatives with these test kits, perhaps the friend from Wuhan with whom one of the first patients had dinner was indeed positive, and he should have gone into quarantine along with anyone else with whom he interacted.

    I'm sure what the northerners are saying is that the Italians don't have a good health system, or good hospitals, or aren't obeying the rules. This is LOMBARDIA and EMILIA-ROMAGNA, which, if we go by regions, are among the richest regions in Europe, with excellent hospitals, and they're pretty damn good about following most rules. Perhaps the young didn't in the beginning, but I don't see the young behaving very responsibly here either.



    And, I might add, this is not wealth produced by clusters of bureaucrats, or mostly by people working in financial markets. In Emilia Romagna especially, it's small businesses.


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    Italians like Greeks live very close and sometimes in the same house with their parents or grandparents or see them daily. I think that is one of the major reasons that it spread so fast. The young ones brought it back from the club or the cafe and passed it on to their parents and grandparents. I think Greece learned Italy's lessons very fast and imposed mandatory social distancing quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    The newspaper De Volksrant had a prudence comment a few days ago:
    at least De Volkskrant explains the situation,
    La Vanguardia only tells what their readers want to hear

    the EU and the ECB have been clear in their communication about making deficits to counter the corona epidemic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    it is not like this, or such easy,
    just only think the exclusives sea interest economical zones,
    and the money Italy spend on Balkans,
    as also the pipelines already exist and will be done to Italy,
    Yet that is a desicion of Italians
    I don't think there are bad relations with the Balkan states and Italy. However, Italy does have > 300 Sea ports. Germany only has like 80, Netherlands maybe 30 or so. Not talking about inland ports, which the Dutch have plenty off, but that is more to transport goods from within Netherlands to the Sea Ports on the Coast. So that is a Strategic Asset that the Italians have that can be leveraged. The fact that Italy allows the USA to maintain 7 strategic bases in prime areas of Italy from Sicily to Veneto is another strategic asset that the Italians have over most of the other EU countries. These NATO ties can also be used to further develop economic ties. Hypothetically, if the Italians were to exit EU and Italian ports become more and more of economic asset that the Italians have to impact Supply chains, the USA could given the bases there help with Security of those ports. So my comments are analyzing what are the strategic assets Italy has. 1) They do have 311 Sea Ports to be exact, more than double the combined amount the Dutch and Germans have, 2) The USA has 7 strategic bases in Italy, way more than what is in either the Netherlands or Germany. That is not an opinion, but fact. 3) There are in fact 17 Million Americans of Italian ancestry, and US Census data indicates that out of the 108 Ethnic groups surveyed in terms of per capita income (96 + 12 American Indian distinct Tribes), Americans of Italian ancestry has a per capita Income of $72,000 US Dollars based on 2016 Census data, #25 in the country. So like me, most of of us still fill strong ties to the regions of Italy where our ancestors came from, it is the # 1 tourist destination for Americans of Italian ancestry and many who meet the qualifications are getting dual citizenship under the Italian "Jure Sanguinis" laws. Italians, I guess similar to the Irish in America, are one of those Ethnic groups that still have a sense of connectives to where there ancestors came from. Speaking for me, assuming next summer this COVID19 situation is under control, I will spend my vacation in Italy my plan is to visit Sicily again, Campania (Vesuvius) and Rome again and make sure I spend money in local shops, restaurants and hotels. So cultural tourism between Italy and USA Americans of Italian ancestry is also something the Italian Government and Business leaders can leverage.

    So from my reading of much of the Youtube comments and reading news articles from Italy, it is very possible the Italians could say "basta" to the EU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    I don't think there are bad relations with the Balkan states and Italy. However, Italy does have > 300 Sea ports. Germany only has like 80, Netherlands maybe 30 or so. Not talking about inland ports, which the Dutch have plenty off, but that is more to transport goods from within Netherlands to the Sea Ports on the Coast. So that is a Strategic Asset that the Italians have that can be leveraged. The fact that Italy allows the USA to maintain 7 strategic bases in prime areas of Italy from Sicily to Veneto is another strategic asset that the Italians have over most of the other EU countries. These NATO ties can also be used to further develop economic ties. Hypothetically, if the Italians were to exit EU and Italian ports become more and more of economic asset that the Italians have to impact Supply chains, the USA could given the bases there help with Security of those ports. So my comments are analyzing what are the strategic assets Italy has. 1) They do have 311 Sea Ports to be exact, more than double the combined amount the Dutch and Germans have, 2) The USA has 7 strategic bases in Italy, way more than what is in either the Netherlands or Germany. That is not an opinion, but fact. 3) There are in fact 17 Million Americans of Italian ancestry, and US Census data indicates that out of the 108 Ethnic groups surveyed in terms of per capita income (96 + 12 American Indian distinct Tribes), Americans of Italian ancestry has a per capita Income of $72,000 US Dollars based on 2016 Census data, #25 in the country. So like me, most of of us still fill strong ties to the regions of Italy where our ancestors came from, it is the # 1 tourist destination for Americans of Italian ancestry and many who meet the qualifications are getting dual citizenship under the Italian "Jure Sanguinis" laws. Italians, I guess similar to the Irish in America, are one of those Ethnic groups that still have a sense of connectives to where there ancestors came from. Speaking for me, assuming next summer this COVID19 situation is under control, I will spend my vacation in Italy my plan is to visit Sicily again, Campania (Vesuvius) and Rome again and make sure I spend money in local shops, restaurants and hotels. So cultural tourism between Italy and USA Americans of Italian ancestry is also something the Italian Government and Business leaders can leverage.

    So from my reading of much of the Youtube comments and reading news articles from Italy, it is very possible the Italians could say "basta" to the EU.
    Italy spend a lot of E at balkans,
    If makes an exit how these founds be considered,
    until 2025 Italy must decide about Green Line and East Med line,
    her participation is not safe yet, cause does not sign treaty with France, Greece, Albania, for the exclusive economical zones (was not present at Cairo)

    Yet the desicion of remaining or leaving Eu is up the italians to decide,

    and something for the record,
    at Corona virus crisis in Italy we see 2 tottaly strange things,

    1. while N Italy is over her limits, breaking all records
    the village of Vo'Eugenao in Padova drives the oposite way, they beat Coronavirus in 14 days, a unique result/record no other achive yet.

    2. Italy ordered masks from Turkey which stop at customs of Turkey,
    while same time was producing for Greece which stop at customs at Ancona,

    what italy needs, is new unification idea, and a strong and clear will and voice politician,
    and leave beside 'voices' and political comets
    if inside EU or outside EU its up to them,
    look how many years for Brexit, and still ...


    I am speaking about politics, upon the dead now,
    I am making policy, as the vulture around the corpse,
    there will be enough time for this,
    until then, the least we can do is to pray for them,
    I do not believe Italians are not smart, but I consider it not wise to spread 'voices' now.
    there will be plenty of time for this,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    I don't think there are bad relations with the Balkan states and Italy. However, Italy does have > 300 Sea ports. Germany only has like 80, Netherlands maybe 30 or so. Not talking about inland ports, which the Dutch have plenty off, but that is more to transport goods from within Netherlands to the Sea Ports on the Coast. So that is a Strategic Asset that the Italians have that can be leveraged. The fact that Italy allows the USA to maintain 7 strategic bases in prime areas of Italy from Sicily to Veneto is another strategic asset that the Italians have over most of the other EU countries. These NATO ties can also be used to further develop economic ties. Hypothetically, if the Italians were to exit EU and Italian ports become more and more of economic asset that the Italians have to impact Supply chains, the USA could given the bases there help with Security of those ports. So my comments are analyzing what are the strategic assets Italy has. 1) They do have 311 Sea Ports to be exact, more than double the combined amount the Dutch and Germans have, 2) The USA has 7 strategic bases in Italy, way more than what is in either the Netherlands or Germany. That is not an opinion, but fact. 3) There are in fact 17 Million Americans of Italian ancestry, and US Census data indicates that out of the 108 Ethnic groups surveyed in terms of per capita income (96 + 12 American Indian distinct Tribes), Americans of Italian ancestry has a per capita Income of $72,000 US Dollars based on 2016 Census data, #25 in the country. So like me, most of of us still fill strong ties to the regions of Italy where our ancestors came from, it is the # 1 tourist destination for Americans of Italian ancestry and many who meet the qualifications are getting dual citizenship under the Italian "Jure Sanguinis" laws. Italians, I guess similar to the Irish in America, are one of those Ethnic groups that still have a sense of connectives to where there ancestors came from. Speaking for me, assuming next summer this COVID19 situation is under control, I will spend my vacation in Italy my plan is to visit Sicily again, Campania (Vesuvius) and Rome again and make sure I spend money in local shops, restaurants and hotels. So cultural tourism between Italy and USA Americans of Italian ancestry is also something the Italian Government and Business leaders can leverage.

    So from my reading of much of the Youtube comments and reading news articles from Italy, it is very possible the Italians could say "basta" to the EU.

    ???
    Rotterdam is the biggest port of Europe, combined with Antwerpen, Hamburg, Amsterdam and Bremen I guess the biggest European port capacity is in this North Sea region.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    ???
    Rotterdam is the biggest port of Europe, combined with Antwerpen and Hamburg I guess the biggest European port capacity is in this North Sea region.
    Rotterdam is the only with 6 degree dock/terminal in Europe,

    Chinese offer to build 2 at Greece, USA ofeered for 1, and Russia also offered for 1,
    but the enviromental disaster will be big, so until now , we do not,

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