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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #51
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    The reported militarization of Wuhan's P4 Lab has raised new questions about the origin of the Covid-19 virus and the apparent cover-up that has occurred since it was first made public.
    Following the removal of the most senior health officials in Wuhan yesterday, Chinese State Media has just reported that Chen Wei, China's chief biochemical weapon defense expert, is now to be stationed in Wuhan to lead the efforts to overcome the deadly, pneumonia-like pathogen.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...eadly-covid-19

    I don't like too much wild conspiracy theories, but this is a bit too much - how could China remove public health care officials and install instead expert on biochemical weapons !?
    One really starts to wonder about the origins of the Covid-19 if it is the biochemical weapons expert who knows best how to deal with the situation, better than doctors...

    I hope that scientists may be able to distinguish now or in the future if this virus did originate from bats with intermediaries pangolins or it might have been manufactured.

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    When the CDC starts saying things like this it gets a little worrisome...

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/12/...witter_organic

    "“We’re still going to see new cases. We’re probably going to see human-to-human transmission within the United States,” Dr. Robert Redfield said in an interview with STAT.He added that “at some point in time it is highly probable that we’ll have to transition to mitigation” as a public health strategy, using “social distancing measures” — for example, closure of certain public facilities — and other techniques to try to limit the number of people who become infected.


    We’re not going to be able to seal this virus from coming into this country,” Redfield said. But, he added, “we do gain time by prolonging the containment phase as long as we can, provided that we still believe that’s a useful public health effort.
    “That’s where we are right now in the United States.”"

    Well, they better freaking TRY HARDER to keep it out of the country.

    "If the United States begins to see instances in several parts of the country in which a single case ignites four “generations” of human-to-human infection, Redfield said — meaning a person who contracted the virus infects a person, who infects another person, who then infects another person — then the CDC is likely to conclude containment of the virus has failed.

    Once we get greater than three — so four or more is our view — [generations of] human-to-human transmission in the community … and we see that in multiple areas of the country that are not contiguous, then basically the value of all of the containment strategies that we’ve done now then really become not effective,” he said. “That’s when we’re in full mitigation.
    The CDC director’s remarks came as a group of experts that advises the World Health Organization’s health emergencies program recommended that the world stay the current course of trying to halt spread of the new virus to stop it from becoming a human pathogen."

    The idiots then turn around and say this:
    "The WHO, which declared the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern on Jan. 30, has urged countries not to restrict travel or trade with China. Later the same day, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Americans not to travel to China, raising his department’s travel warning for China to the highest possible level."

    How about some cognitive dissonance! Thank God for some hard headed people in government.

    "The State Department has ceased issuing visas to foreign nationals who have been in China in the past 14 days. Health officials are also quarantining people arriving in the United States for 14 days if they have set foot in Hubei province; people returning to the U.S. from other parts of China are being asked to self-quarantine for that period, which represents the estimated incubation period of the disease."

    Not good enough. Forget the self-quarantine crap.

    Oh, some preliminary data says men may be more susceptible. How could that work? Is that just in East Asians or generally. Are there different immune responses ethnically?
    Also, when are they going to figure out the fatality rate? Two percent is quite different from 20%. Even at just over 2% the "Spanish flu" killed millions and millions worldwide. Not to mention the overloading of health care centers and the havoc it could create economically.


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    What I find very very disturbing
    is that virus went abroad china.
    but what about high touristic places?

    did you heard about the virus in high chinese tourist concentration?

    yet we seen in in US EU etc,

    wonder what will happen if move to India, Indochina, Indonesia.
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  4. #54
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    What I find very very disturbing
    is that virus went abroad china.
    but what about high touristic places?

    did you heard about the virus in high chinese tourist concentration?

    yet we seen in in US EU etc,

    wonder what will happen if move to India, Indochina, Indonesia.
    It will be catastrophic; they don't have the infrastructure to handle it, or, frankly the hygiene systems.

    So far, the cases in the west started with people who came into contact with travelers, sometimes businesspeople, from China. That was the case with the German sample. The British man contracted it in Singapore, but again from a Chinese business man. Business people from China went to meetings abroad and westerners became infected and, in turn, infected others.

    The case of the cruise ship quarantined off the coast of Japan was indeed tourism. Sixty people are sick and more are falling ill every day. They have to get the healthy passengers and crew off that ship and into individual quarantine. That ship is probably like a petri dish for the virus at this point. It's probably on every surface, if not also in the air vents.

    One point about bats: they are particularly dangerous in terms of spreading disease, whether directly or through intermediaries. Usually, bad viruses are limited in their impact because the host also dies. However, bats have an extraordinarily good immune system, and so the pathogens they spread to other creatures don't kill them. That's what happened in this case: the virus doesn't kill them, but it can kill the pangolin presumably, and from them it got to humans, a certain percentage of which do die.

    I don't even want to consider that it was weaponized. Then all bets are off. So, let's hope that was fake news.

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    Let's hope this isn't right either.


    Studies in China suggest as many as 25% of patients need ICU care, something that could wreak havoc on health systems and cost billions. “There’s always chance
    #coronavirus can overwhelm health systems in a number of countries, even in countries with good health systems,” -Fauci






















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    From the Wall Street Journal: Harvard public heath profesoor Mac Lipsitch, on coronavirus: “It is likely we’ll see a global pandemic...If a pandemic happens, 40% to 70% of people world-wide are likely to be infected in the coming year.”

    From an interview on British television with the Head of Infectious Disease Epidemiology and a disease modeler at Imperial College London, Niall Ferguson, he says that given how easily transmitted the virus is, the figure of infected is perhaps 60%, and that he’s looking at a fatality rate of 1%. That would be a fatality figure of more than 400,000 people in Britain alone.
    Extrapolating to the world’s population of 7.8 billion, we would have an estimated 46.8 million deaths.

    Please God, the fatality rate is lower. It's not even just the tragic and heart-breaking loss of life, as if that isn't horrific enough; it's that all our countries will be upended in every way possible, including economically.

    What makes me really crazy is that while this is going on my politicians in Washington are wasting their time on goddamn stupidity.

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    So, the conspiracy theory about the coronaviruses in Wuhan may have a shred of support.

    "“Absolutely nothing about the genome sequence of the virus suggests that the virus was engineered in a lab,” he told The Street. “The genome sequence of the virus indicates that its progenitor was the bat coronavirus RaTG13 or a closely related bat coronavirus.”Because that bat coronavirus and other closely related bat coronaviruses are known to have been present in nature – such as in a cave in Yunnan province – the first human infection could have occurred as an accident of nature, Ebright said.
    But he said, it is possible that the virus could have been leaked from a laboratory that was studying a virus, too.
    “Because the bat coronavirus RaTG13 and closely related bat coronaviruses also are known to have been present in a lab (in the coronavirus collection at Wuhan Institute of Virology), the first human infection also could have occurred as a lab accident,” he said.



    He noted that SARS, though first introduced to humans by nature, was also later reintroduced in a series of lab accidents.
    The available data on the origin of human infection with the Wuhan coronavirus – whether from nature or a lab – Ebright said, “are consistent with either” cause."

    https://www.thestreet.com/latest-new...k-of-headlines

    Great. Just great.

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    Come on, the coronavirus has left V.I.H.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    What on earth were Holland America Line and the Cambodian president thinking?

    They let all but six passengers fly hither and thither and now some are testing positive for the disease. They should all have been quarantined.

    Well, I know why Cambodia acted that way...the President is a toady of China's. China has heavily invested in Cambodia.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/16/w...americans.html

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^It was indeed stellar level stupidity.

    New data is showing it can be dormant for 40 days before causing symptoms, i.e. no one, including the infected person, knows they're infected, and they can spread it all that time.

    Great, a whole group of Americans has been released from quarantine after FOURTEEN days. That has been the protocol world wide.

    No wonder people on that ship got infected and some of them have subsequently died. Maybe the "quarantine" was pretty successful. There were just people who hadn't shown any symptoms and were infecting people.


    Global Times

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    · 8h
    #Wuhan has expropriated five #cruise ships which can offer 1,469 beds to serve as temporary hotels for medical staff amid the #COVID19 outbreak. As more medical groups from other regions come to support the virus epicenter, the city's hotel occupancy rate is almost at its peak.

    That's under the category of just how stupid can people be???


    COVID-19 in Italy: Infections in Codogno, Castiglione d'Adda and Casalpusterlengo and Padua
    Via Corriere della Sera: Coronavirus Italia, the infections in Codogno, Castiglione d'Adda and Casalpusterlengo and Padua. Excerpt from the Google translation: The new coronavirus (Covid-19) has...
    crofsblogs.typepad.com


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    · Fe[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg[/IMG]b 21
    NEW: Italian town of Codogno closes schools, bars, eateries, and sporting facilities until at least Sunday after 6 cases of coronavirus were confirmed - ANSA


    Finally, a quick and sensible reaction. They should go further and institute delivery of groceries, and tell people to disinfect anything they receive.

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    Canada has announced the first case from someone who did not visit China, read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coron...orea-1.5472316

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    It's also spreading in the rest of Northern Italy, between Milan and Turin. They must ascertain whether they are linked to infections in the Lodi area

    https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/c...c9ca483e.shtml

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    I am a client of some Chinese and I was talking to them this afternoon. Some had put the sign of reforms in their premises, and the truth had been in their country, the place is already open and it is the same I do not see any reform and the other Chinese had returned according to him 10 days before the virus crown exploded in his country, the truth is that today he looked a little strange, a cold. We never know what destiny can bring us, we must have hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^It was indeed stellar level stupidity.

    New data is showing it can be dormant for 40 days before causing symptoms, i.e. no one, including the infected person, knows they're infected, and they can spread it all that time.

    Great, a whole group of Americans has been released from quarantine after FOURTEEN days. That has been the protocol world wide.

    No wonder people on that ship got infected and some of them have subsequently died. Maybe the "quarantine" was pretty successful. There were just people who hadn't shown any symptoms and were infecting people.


    Global Times

    @globaltimesnews
    · 8h
    #Wuhan has expropriated five #cruise ships which can offer 1,469 beds to serve as temporary hotels for medical staff amid the #COVID19 outbreak. As more medical groups from other regions come to support the virus epicenter, the city's hotel occupancy rate is almost at its peak.

    That's under the category of just how stupid can people be???


    COVID-19 in Italy: Infections in Codogno, Castiglione d'Adda and Casalpusterlengo and Padua
    Via Corriere della Sera: Coronavirus Italia, the infections in Codogno, Castiglione d'Adda and Casalpusterlengo and Padua. Excerpt from the Google translation: The new coronavirus (Covid-19) has...
    crofsblogs.typepad.com


    BNO Newsroom
    @BNODesk
    · Fe[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg[/IMG]b 21
    NEW: Italian town of Codogno closes schools, bars, eateries, and sporting facilities until at least Sunday after 6 cases of coronavirus were confirmed - ANSA


    Finally, a quick and sensible reaction. They should go further and institute delivery of groceries, and tell people to disinfect anything they receive.
    you'd think they should be able to devise a test to check people on the virus before symptoms become visible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    Great. Just great.

    Wuhan Institute of Virology kept not only the virus, but hundreds of infected bats, too; Zhengli Shi, a renowned researcher working at the P4 lab, co-authored a controversial paper in 2015 to create a new virus by combining a coronavirus found in Chinese horseshoe bats with another that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice.

    The research for creating dangerous viruses is very controversial. US restricts that.

    "to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice. The hybrid virus could infect human airway cells and caused disease in mice, according to the team’s results, which were published Nature Medicine

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...s-debate-34502

    "The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.
    In October 2013, the US government put a stop to all federal funding for gain-of-function studies, with particular concern rising about influenza, SARS, and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS). “NIH [National Institutes of Health] has funded such studies because they help define the fundamental nature of human-pathogen interactions, enable the assessment of the pandemic potential of emerging infectious agents, and inform public health and preparedness efforts,” NIH Director Francis Collins said “These studies, however, also entail biosafety and biosecurity risks, which need to be understood better.”



    Overall, there are just too many coincides, - there was a P4 security lab in Wuhan able to research and engineer SARS like viruses, bats, Chinese scientists (there is at least one paper in Nature Medicine of 2015 which was co-authored by Chinese scientist from Wuhan lab on the creation of new SARS like virus that can affect people). In addition, China's defence budget has skyrocketed during the last 10 years, and there must have been plenty of funding for that kind of research, which, along with no moral barriers and open discussion about such dangerous research, are perfect conditions to have some kind of disaster like we are seeing now.

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    Well, the New York Post, for one, agrees with you, Dagne.
    https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-b...mpression=true

    The worst part of the article?

    "And then there is this little-known fact: Some Chinese researchers are in the habit of selling their laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them.You heard me right.
    Instead of properly disposing of infected animals by cremation, as the law requires, they sell them on the side to make a little extra cash. Or, in some cases, a lot of extra cash. One Beijing researcher, now in jail, made a million dollars selling his monkeys and rats on the live animal market, where they eventually wound up in someone’s stomach."

    I refuse to believe that a trained virulogist doesn't know better, which leave a complete lack of morality as the cause.

    Meanwhile, in Italy the number keeps growing and growing. The Guardian newspaper in England calls the measure draconian. I couldn't disagree more.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...P=share_btn_tw

    "About 50,000 residents in the towns under lockdown have been told to stay home and avoid social contact, while schools, shops and businesses – apart from chemists – have been closed and festivities and sporting events including Serie A football matches and the final two days of the Venice carnival have been cancelled.

    Schools and universities will also be closed for at least a week in Lombardy, Veneto, Emilia-Romagna and Piedmont, while similar measures have been taken in Liguria and Alto Adige."

    Italy just passed a decree which, between others, gives cities with 1+ confirmed cases the power to: - Seal the city borders - Cancel any event - Quarantine the infected & their contacts - Only give access to shops & public transports to people wearing PPEs -

    Fines and jail time will be imposed depending on the violations.



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    Chinese people really deserve better. If the suspicion is right, the story is simple - bioweapons experts created a virus, corrupt/negligent lab people released it and now the party is waging a glorious war against it, while hundreds of millions suffer or even die without being able to say anything about the situation they are at now.
    If the virus is airborne - as even US experts are starting to admit now - it cannot be really stopped by quarantine measures, perhaps delayed which is also valuable. Let's hope Covid-2019 somehow burns out because of the hot summer weather or due to some other reasons. One good thing is that this virus is not so dangerous, as it seems, to children and teenagers who have weaker immune system compared to healthy adults, and are otherwise very susceptible to flu infections.
    Perhaps even bioweapons engineering experts had a bit of consciousness and somehow managed to exclude children from the target group of this virus?

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    there is panic in Italy and on the stock exchange markets, gold is rallying

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    there is panic in Italy and on the stock exchange markets, gold is rallying
    In Italy should have been more carefully, now it will going to spread all over Europe.
    Albania is completely vulnerable considering ties with Italy.




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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Actually, what Italy is doing is exactly what the WHO and other experts are saying SHOULD be done. It's not panic; it's prudence.

    "@WHO
    #Covid19 mission chief Bruce Aylward says it's not clear other countries have learned the lesson that containment measures have to be put in place quickly & aggressively."

    So I guess the WHO is in a state of panic too?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/o...-pandemic.html

    "It’s now clear that the epidemic was never going to be contained. At most, its spread was slowed by the lockdown imposed in China and other countries’ efforts to identify infected people and anyone they might have been in contact with."

    Slowing the spread gives hospitals time to prepare and scientists time to work on a vaccine.

    "Governments should also conduct Covid-19 preparedness drills in local hospitals and expand hospitals’ temporary capacity, for example, by setting up emergency tents in parking lots, as is already happening in some places in the United States. To minimize the strain on overstressed acute-care hospitals, supportive nursing care might have to be provided, in makeshift facilities and patients’ homes, as was done during severe pandemics in the past, such as the Great Influenza of 1918-19."

    "In light of the disease’s features, the quarantine of the passengers and crew members on the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Yokohama Bay in Japan looks like a cruel experiment: While confined, these people were forced to breathe recycled air for two weeks. The measure achieved little except to prove just how effective the virus is at spreading. Trying to stop influenza-like transmission is a bit like trying to stop the wind."

    It's apparently a fecal wind in some cases:

    "Nicholas A. Christakis
    @NAChristakis
    · 14h
    COVID-19 may have both respiratory and fecal transmission: While a sneeze by someone with a respiratory disease can only infect others within a few meters, virus-laden gaseous plume from infected person with diarrhea can infect others up to 200 meters."

  21. #71
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    If I had only invested in gold ... this Corona Virus is weakening me :)

    I hope it ends soon and everyone feels good!

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    If I had only invested in gold ... this Corona Virus is weakening me :)

    I hope it ends soon and everyone feels good!
    Amen to that.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    If I had only invested in gold ... this Corona Virus is weakening me :)

    I hope it ends soon and everyone feels good!

    hm,

    Do the media provide it as an Apocalypsis book sceen?
    or it is an Apocalypsis story,

    I think the next we will see is those guys speaking about God's wrath.

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    I don't understand the situation in Iran. Are their ties to China that strong that there's a lot of travel between the countries?

    What's clear is that they have not had the proper response. Maybe they need a little of Italy's "panic". :)

    "In Qom religious figures refuse the advice of health ministry to close Shia shrine & instead hold defiant communal prayer. In a city that's epicenter of an epidemic killing people."

    "
    Iran Deputy Health Minister tests positive for coronavirus a day after clearly unwell in public press conference. Iran nowhere close to being able to handle outbreak or their borders."

    "Dr. Ghadir, top health official in Qom now infected, tells State TV: The health ministry ordered Qom officials "not to publish statistics" related to coronavirus.Wow."


    Applying viral growth data metrics to a growing crisis

    Reproduction number (#R0)

    Case fatality rate (#CFR)

    For the flu

    R0 = ~1.3

    CFR = ~0.1%

    For SARS-CoV-2 (2019-nCoV)

    R0 = ~2.6 (2x the flu)

    CFR = ~1.5% (15x the flu)

    If this analysis holds, we're not looking at mass death rates, but I'm sure no one wants to be in that 1.5% death rate, or wants to see their grandparents die of this. The bigger problem, and what might push that number higher is that some are claiming that 20% of those who come down with actual symptoms may need to be in intensive care for up to a month. No one is prepared for this and it will strain public health systems to the max.





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    A thousand isolated in the hotel of Tenerife where the Italian tourist with coronavirus stayed

    National Police agents guard the establishment while performing health checks on employees and guests
    https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/02/...80_129829.html



    What was going to be a winter holiday at a hotel on the beach in Tenerife has become, for hundreds of tourists, a forced confinement. Nearly a thousand people, including guests and workers, remain isolated at the H10 Costa Adeje Palace since Monday night an Italian tourist who was staying at the establishment tested positive for the coronavirus. National Police agents guard the complex, located in the south of the island, following orders from health authorities, according to police sources. There are also members of the Local Police of Adeje watching that no one enters or leaves the resort, which has all accesses closed, including that of the beach.

    The alarm went off on Monday afternoon, when a natural doctor from Lombardy, the region of northern Italy where there are more cases in the country, went to a clinic with symptoms of Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. The patient had spent a week on vacation at the Tenerife hotel together with his wife. He tested positive in a first test conducted at the University Hospital Nuestra Señora de La Candelaria, in Santa Cruz de Tenerife, where he is admitted and isolated in good health, according to sources from the Ministry of Health. His wife and two other people in his circle also remain under observation in the same hospital, although they have not had symptoms of infection.

    People cannot stay in their homes, who eager to travel for God
    Being a tourist country will be a problem in such a situation. I don't know what they are waiting for to close the borders.

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