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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #1126
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    I thought better of it. One shouldn't feed the t-rolls.


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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I'm just sharing a news story, to the knowledge of those who don't know it yet. I do not intend to enter into political debate.



    Summary: The Prime Minister of Portugal, Antonio Costa, vehemently repudiated the attitude of the Holland’s Minister of Economy regarding Spain during an EU council meeting. Pedro Sanchez, President of Spain, as well as Italy’s Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte were both present at the meeting when Wopke Hoekstra, Holland’s Minister of Economy who is against the idea of ‘corona bonus’ (like Angela Markell, also), said that Brussels should investigate countries like Spain for not having a budgetary margin to fight the pandemic, despite the fact that the euro has been growing for the last seven years.

    At a press conference after the meeting, Costa criticised Hoekstra’s comments as “disgusting, mean-spirited and contrary to the discourse of the European Union”.

    He reminded member states that, “if we do not respect each other and do not understand that we are currently facing a common challenge, nobody will understand what the European Union is about, we have to have to be able to respond together.”

    Continuing his speechhe he said “that the virus was not created or imported by Spain.”

    The council, which meeting all European leaders was focused on reaching a consensus on what measures should be taken within the Union to help member states economically.

    Furthermore, the Portuguese Prime Minister considered the EU’s response to the current economic crisis being caused by the coronavirus as “manifestly insufficient.” He insisted on the need to collaborate and issue joint debt through the so-called ‘corona bonus.’

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    I'm just sharing a news story, to the knowledge of those who don't know it yet. I do not intend to enter into political debate.



    Summary: The Prime Minister of Portugal, Antonio Costa, vehemently repudiated the attitude of the Holland’s Minister of Economy regarding Spain during an EU council meeting. Pedro Sanchez, President of Spain, as well as Italy’s Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte were both present at the meeting when Wopke Hoekstra, Holland’s Minister of Economy who is against the idea of ‘corona bonus’ (like Angela Markell, also), said that Brussels should investigate countries like Spain for not having a budgetary margin to fight the pandemic, despite the fact that the euro has been growing for the last seven years.

    At a press conference after the meeting, Costa criticised Hoekstra’s comments as “disgusting, mean-spirited and contrary to the discourse of the European Union”.

    He reminded member states that, “if we do not respect each other and do not understand that we are currently facing a common challenge, nobody will understand what the European Union is about, we have to have to be able to respond together.”

    Continuing his speechhe he said “that the virus was not created or imported by Spain.”

    The council, which meeting all European leaders was focused on reaching a consensus on what measures should be taken within the Union to help member states economically.

    Furthermore, the Portuguese Prime Minister considered the EU’s response to the current economic crisis being caused by the coronavirus as “manifestly insufficient.” He insisted on the need to collaborate and issue joint debt through the so-called ‘corona bonus.’
    The news:
    The Dutch government is willing to contribute up to 1 billion euros to a yet-to-be-established European fund aimed at dealing with the coronavirus, Minister Wopke Hoekstra of Finance said. Countries hit hard by Covid-19 and that are not in good financial health can turn to the fund to finance medical aid. "I am thinking roughly of a few hundred million to 1 billion euros," Hoekstra said to NU.nl on Wednesday.

    The Finance Minister stressed that this is not a loan, but a gift, and the Netherlands' "substantial contribution to public health in Europe". Countries who call on this fund must clearly need help, Hoekstra said. Figuring out exactly how the control and release of the funds will work, and the conditions attached, is the next step, he said.

    Unlike the still contested European Stability Mechanism (ESM), contribution to this fund is not mandatory for EU Member States. The member states are free to decide if and how much they want to contribute. According to Hoekstra, there is "broad enthusiasm" among his European colleagues for this fund.

    Hoekstra stressed that the Netherlands is and will remain vehemently against so-called coronabonds, where the funds raised from selling such bond instruments would be used to help all member states overcome economic hurdles during the ongoing health crisis. The money could then be invested in supporting any EU member state, while repayment obligations would be the responsibility of the entire EU. Italy and Spain, both very hard hit by the coronavirus, insist on such bonds, the Netherlands and other countries including Germany, France and Belgium are against it.

    The Dutch resistance to coronabonds resulted in fierce criticism from Italy. Especially after Hoekstra said that countries should first pull out all the stops to recover from the economic downturn themselves. This statement prompted indignation, given that the Netherlands has far less public debt than Italy and therefore has much more financial room.

    Hoekstra understands the anger from Italy, he said to NU.nl. He previously acknowledged that his statements showed a lack of empathy. "It is now the task to proceed wisely with each other," he said to NU.nl.

    Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced the plan for a coronavirus fund during a parliamentary debate on Wednesday. He said he will discuss this plan with European Council president Charles Michel, Italian Prime Minster Giuseppe Conte, and Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez in the near future.





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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I wonder if I will go back to having long hair, like in my teenage years. Now that it is impossible for me to get a hair-cut for the foreseeable future.
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I wonder if I will go back to having long hair, like in my teenage years. Now that it is impossible for me to get a hair-cut for the foreseeable future.
    My poor hair, what a tragedy!

    I’ve been wearing a different hat every time I go out (to protect from Covid-19 too).

    ... not the one below yet, I’m in very blue State.

    It's not good for my health around here, lol


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    "Fauci says he 'doesn't understand why' the entire US is not under a stay-at-home order. Here's why its absence could make America's coronavirus problem even worse."

    I don't understand also. Moreover, I don't understand why this kind of person is not in Canada.

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    ... is getting really bad

    We're out of options in the Tri-state area.

    We tried ..., I don't know if we made mistakes, but it doesn't matter anymore, it's too late now.

    Let's ride the storm with confidence and dignity.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Greece is not on a big boom, (thalassaemia? very high %, maybe highest in Europe and Med sea.)
    yet has high mortality due to age of population.

    Some statistics
    Starting date 01/01/2020 to 02/04/2020
    tests done 22437
    positive 1524 6.8%

    gender
    male 54.4
    female 45.6

    age
    coloumn 1 age
    coloumn 2 infected
    coloumn 3 deths
    coloumn 4 under support



    average age of infected is 49 years (0-95)
    average age of dead 71 years old,
    min age of dead is 39 years old.
    max age of dead is 93 years old.

    average reason of infection
    1) trip abroad (mainly from Holy lands and tourism, secondary Italy, Turkey, England, Austria students, immigrants) 20.8 %
    2) relation or connection with above, (family, work, etc) 34.9 %
    3) the rest are orphan cases, no possible to detect, 44.3%

    PS
    many in Greece believe that have or pass corovirus
    But they had seasonal flue or H2N3 influenza
    the deaths from influenza are still double the ones of Coronavirus here.

    and is not only the viruses and 'STAY HOME' yesterday we had snow !!!!! at April month,
    Mother Nature uses even the weather, to warn us.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  9. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    I'm just sharing a news story, to the knowledge of those who don't know it yet. I do not intend to enter into political debate.
    yes you are and you should stop it

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    China Wants to Use the Coronavirus to Take Over the World

    What started as a catastrophe for China is shaping up to be a moment of strategic opportunity, a rare turning point in the flow of history. Suddenly, the protests in Hong Kong, carrying a mortal threat to political stability in the mainland, became a physical impossibility. More important, the pandemic set in motion a global competition, to contain the virus, for which China and the Chinese Communist Party seem uniquely prepared.

    As the virus spread to the whole world, it became apparent that Western societies — Beijing’s true rivals — did not have the ability to quickly organize every citizen around a single goal. As opposed to China, which remains to a large extent a revolutionary society, their political systems were built for normal times. Chinese society is a mobilized army, which can quickly drop everything else and march in one direction.

    Mao once said, “Everything under heaven is in utter chaos, the situation is excellent.” And so it seems at present, as seen from Beijing. Chinese diplomats stationed all over the world spend their time raising the stakes to a dangerous level. Following instructions from the very top, they have taken to the media to issue a challenge to America, to point out its failure, and to compare the chaos in American cities and hospitals with what they see as a singular success in stopping the epidemic in China.

    Several commentators have suggested that China may be winning the coronavirus battle by stepping forward in providing medical help to affected countries, mostly in Europe, at a time when the United States is consumed with its own difficulties. This misses the point.
    The cases have been multiplying where the medical equipment provided by Chinese companies and even the Chinese state turned out to be faulty, provoking justified ire in, for example, Spain, the Netherlands, and Turkey. Moreover, medical help is a normal occurrence in a crisis. China has done nothing different, except perhaps in the clumsy way it publicizes those efforts.

    Forget about “mask diplomacy.” It is no more than a distraction. There are other ways for China to use the coronavirus pandemic to upturn the existing global order. I see three main levers.
    The first one is the direct comparison between the situation in China and elsewhere. The numbers of cases and fatalities provided by Chinese authorities almost certainly misrepresent the real figures by more than an order of magnitude, but the fact remains that a semblance of normalcy was achieved in a small period of time. If the United States fails to do the same, its prestige will suffer a severe blow. People all over the world will quickly change their perceptions about relative power and capacity.

    The second lever resides with industrial value chains. Last month General Motors, Ford, and Fiat Chrysler closed all their automotive production plants across the United States and Canada. Other sectors have followed. In the meantime, China contained the worst of the pandemic to one province, allowing economic activity to quickly resume elsewhere. The most recent data show renewed activity in the flow of goods across the country, as well as at ports worldwide that do business with China. If the freeze in Europe and America continues for much longer, Chinese companies will be able to dramatically expand market share and replace Western-led value chains. Just yesterday Chinese authorities announced that manufacturing activity expanded in March, defying expectations of a contraction. In February the official Purchasing Managers’ Index hit a record low of 35.7. It bounced back to 52.0 in March. Prepare for a worldwide wave of Chinese acquisitions at knockdown prices.

    Finally, in a more extreme scenario, important countries could experience the kind of economic shock that leads to widespread social and political collapse. At that point, China would have a unique opportunity to step in, provide aid, and refashion these countries in its image. It would look like a repeat of the Marshall Plan and the beginning of the American world order after the ravages of World War II. Indonesia, South Asia, and even Russia might be of special interest in such a scenario.

    We knew that a generalized race or competition between alternative geopolitical models had started, but it was never clear what the background for such a competition would be. If the clash took place within the existing global trade and financial system, which was of course built according to Western rules and principles, the United States was confident the battle could be decisively won. But what if it took place on neutral ground? What if it took place in a kind of neutral landscape, a state of nature with few or no rules, against a chaotic and quickly evolving background? The outcome would become considerably more uncertain.

    To put it more bluntly: There was always an argument that the existing world order cannot change because only a momentous war has done that in the past and world wars have become impossible. But in pandemics — and soon in climate change — we may have found two functional equivalents of war.

    https://news.yahoo.com/china-wants-c...wer&soc_trk=fb

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    Do not know if posted before,

    but chinese maybe have the cure to Coronavirus as they claim (already, so fast!!!)
    I wonder if they already have hundrends of tones, (stockpiled somewhere) waiting for best time, or best price.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0305-x

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    In China they arrest the doctors.
    instead of making them a statue,








    At USA they dismiss Admirals, when worry about sailors safety,
    after all, when they do what have to do, since safety of the crew, is also at Admirals concern.






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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    yes you are and you should stop it
    I am not the only one. I had doubts about your posture on this forum. But now I'm sure about who you really are. Angela is right about you. Arrogant, pretentious, cheeky and Nordicist. I posted the speech of the Prime Minister of a country of which I have the citizenship: Portugal. I would like Angela to one day tell me what happened to Le Bloc. Sometimes the good ones leave and the bad ones continue. But I believe that neither I will have time for that, since a Democratic moderator like you, that does not admit the contradictory, wiill exclude my speech and ban me from the Forum. I don't need you for anything, and I am absolutely sure that I am much better than you. Go scold your employees, because I'm not one of them. Do as you like, cyclist. Stay well and that God protect you. Grow up!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    yes you are and you should stop it
    And just what, pray tell, did you do in the most egregious way of anyone on this site, and the first to do it, as well.

    "Now", just quoting a news report is objectionable?

    You've been very silent when a certain member has taken every opportunity to trash the President and government of the U.S., when those actions affect "us", not him, and not the Netherlands.

    At least in the case of the EU the actions of Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Finland directly affect other member states, of one of which many of us here are citizens. Last I heard the U.S. and the Netherlands are not in any "union" with the U.S. for domestic matters.

    Please...this is going to be the first time, after years, that you show up for work as a moderator?

    And here's the result; the t-roll is unrebuked and you've insulted one of our best and most prolific posters. Good job.

    In times of stress individuals reveal themselves, and so do nations: the Italians, unwisely, as it turns out, go to check on their grandparents, and wisely make music on balconies to keep their spirits up; the British at first stumble about and then find their footing, work together, and bravely soldier on...well, I don't need to continue...fill in the blanks.

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    Someone was perspicacious enough to mention this early; I think it was Yetos.

    The food supply chains are also starting to get affected. I guess we're going to go back to eating seasonally. Too bad my garden is so shady.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21L2V7

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    In China they arrest the doctors.
    instead of making them a statue,








    At USA they dismiss Admirals, when worry about sailors safety,
    after all, when they do what have to do, since safety of the crew, is also at Admirals concern.





    You’re comparing Apples and Oranges.

    If it is true that a Navy Captain revealed the operational status of his Warship / Aircraft Carrier to a civilian entity bypassing the chain of command, the Captain broke the rules.

    He broadcast his weakness to the World on board an armed vessel full of highly sensitive and sophisticated Defense Assets in the middle of the ocean.

    It’s a no no thing to do.

    If true!

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    "From the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering & Medicine "...the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing"THIS is why universal masking can help. The full letter has more insights and references:"https://nap.edu/read/25769/chapter/1

    So, there you have it.

    Meanwhile, Trump says he won't wear one because it doesn't look good. (I can say it; he is my president, after all, even if I didn't vote for him.)

    I mentioned before that Singapore, up to now one of the shining lights in terms of controlling this thing, was on lockdown.

    Update:

    Singapore, after keeping society relatively open & functioning this whole time, is going into lockdown for a month. There are just over 1K cases & 5 deaths. Work places and schools are ordered to close. Main reason: unexplained community transmission.



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    The perils of keeping infected people at home...

    It's happening here too. In the midwest somewhere 3 members of the same family have died. What is happening is what happens with health care workers, which is repeated exposure to the virus. Given that the virus to some extent is aerosolized, it's in the very air of the home. Yes, not a lot of it is expelled that way, but some, and if you share the same air?

    What the heck is the solution, however?

    Even if there was the capacity to move all ill people into hospitals, not just those in respiratory distress, people shed the virus when asymptomatic.

    Perhaps masks should be worn in the home as well? Is it really necessary?

    In Wuhan there were examples of entire families dying as well as young doctors. As this NYT editorial argues, a contributory factor might have been high infection doses, which can easily happen within family setting. https://nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html 6/14



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    On aerosolization of the Coronavirus...we've always been talking semantics, of course. When does aerosol become droplet?


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    I would say the debate is over...common sense and just using your logic wins again...



    Now, when is someone going to wake up to the fact that the poor people working in supermarkets should be masked and gloved, and I mean strong masks...they're not only being infected, they're infecting others.

    Of course, they would have to be rigorously trained "NOT" to touch the mask, and if they inadvertently do, to change their gloves.

    Stop using cash, too, people. Use your card, and disinfect it and then your hands after use.

  21. #1146
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    Amazing how all the mommy "anti-vaxxers" are now silent about the dangers of vaccines.

    Same for the "it's just a bad flu" and "masks don't work" crowd.

  22. #1147
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ... is getting really bad

    We're out of options in the Tri-state area.

    We tried ..., I don't know if we made mistakes, but it doesn't matter anymore, it's too late now.

    Let's ride the storm with confidence and dignity.
    It's hard, though, Salento. I still have a low grade fever and some of the symptoms. Is my body just continuously trying to fight it, or is it a sinus infection, a persistent cold, what?

    Then there's my poor son stuck in the basement apartment, whom I'm monitoring for every cough. Remember the video about the Italian mother and the coronavirus? That's me, except I don't care if he sleeps and lays around when he's home. So long as he's well. I'm just so thankful my daughter doesn't live in the tri-state area. I'm also so regretful we sold our Florida condo shortly before this hit. Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?

    My ways of coping? Research like hell so I feel some delusory sense of control, I suppose, post it in the vague hope it may help someone else, cook up a storm, play my favorite music, watch scenes from funny sitcoms. I've given up reading most of my favorite poetry. Too sad.

    If there are some things I'm missing, I'd love to hear about them. :)

  23. #1148
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    For anyone in Florida or with family in Florida you can see the cases by zip code.

    Well, Sarasota would have been safer, but it's there too, and they had a four year old come down with it. Good grief.

    https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...8ddedb9b25e429

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    For some historical perspective: the Spanish Flu


  25. #1150
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    The U.S. was infected by people from all over the globe, starting with the case in Washington State in the second week of January. It shows.


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