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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #1151
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    New York City has now fitted out 45 mobile morgues...

    I just can't even...

    “Local crematories are now allowed to work 24/7. At one Brooklyn hospital, the in-house morgue was filled on Tuesday. The next day, the staff ran out of body bags. The casualties in NY are starting to severely tax the city’s ability to accommodate its dead”




    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    This is how shop assistants in pharmacies and supermarkets should be protecting themselves in LT. There are not enough of masks for all people even though the recommendations is to wear them by everyone (everyone should treat themselves as virus spreaders now)

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    I just had a perhaps bizarre thought. Has the pneumonia vaccine been of any help?

    Maybe not, though; I would think all the people in nursing homes in the U.S. are given it every year, no?

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    I read somewhere that pneumonia vaccine is not helping.
    In many cases, the reason is immune response, rather than COVID-19 itself - the immune system is overreacting (the same happened in case of Spanish flu), or the virus is multiplying too quickly for the immune system to deal with it.

    Scientists don’t know what exactly happens in older age groups. But based on research on other respiratory viruses, experts theorize that whether a coronavirus infection takes a turn for the worse depends on a person’s immune response. “The virus matters, but the host response matters at least as much, and probably more,” says Stanley Perlman, a virologist and pediatric infectious disease specialist at the University of Iowa."

    For reasons that aren’t entirely clear, some people—especially the elderly and sick—may have dysfunctional immune systems that fail to keep the response to particular pathogens in check. This could cause an uncontrolled immune response, triggering an overproduction of immune cells and their signaling molecules and leading to a cytokine storm often associated with a flood of immune cells into the lung. “That’s when you end up with a lot of these really severe inflammatory disease conditions like pneumonia, shortness of breath, inflammation of the airway, and so forth,” says Rasmussen.

    Local inflammation can turn into widespread inflammation of the lungs, which then has ripple effects across all organs of the body. This could also happen if the virus replicates faster than the immune system can respond, so that it then has to play catch-up to contain the pathogen—a situation that could also cause the immune defense to spiral out of control.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...n-others-67160

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think it would be very interesting to analyse immune system of those who had COVID-19.
    There should be more facts surrounding the immune response, rather than age and underlying conditions. Why is it that some relatively young and healthy people have very difficult illness and some - very light symptoms?

    I know rather a number of people around me who are having very light flu/cold symptoms that have been lasting for about a month now. I suspect this all could be mild unregistered cases of COVID-19, only it is difficult to tell now.

    The other paper tells that new coronavirus has HIV-like mutation. (People who like conspiracy theories say that Wuhan laboratory manufactured SARS-2 by adding to SARS-1 HIV insertions)

    Now, a recent research paper viewable on the Chinese research site Chinaxiv.org and previously reported on by the South China Morning Post notes that the new coronavirus has an "HIV-like mutation" that gives it novel properties.
    "Because of this mutation, the packing mechanism of the 2019-nCoV may be changed to being more similar to those of MHV, HIV, Ebola virus (EBoV) and some avian influenza viruses," the English abstract of the paper states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    I read somewhere that it is not helping. I think the actual reason why people are dying should be (or perhaps are) analysed in more depth.
    In many cases, the reason is immune response, rather than COVID-19 itself - the immune system is overreacting (the same happened in case of Spanish flu).

    "Scientists don’t know what exactly happens in older age groups. But based on research on other respiratory viruses, experts theorize that whether a coronavirus infection takes a turn for the worse depends on a person’s immune response. “The virus matters, but the host response matters at least as much, and probably more,” says Stanley Perlman, a virologist and pediatric infectious disease specialist at the University of Iowa."

    For reasons that aren’t entirely clear, some people—especially the elderly and sick—may have dysfunctional immune systems that fail to keep the response to particular pathogens in check. This could cause an uncontrolled immune response, triggering an overproduction of immune cells and their signaling molecules and leading to a cytokine storm often associated with a flood of immune cells into the lung. “That’s when you end up with a lot of these really severe inflammatory disease conditions like pneumonia, shortness of breath, inflammation of the airway, and so forth,” says Rasmussen.

    Local inflammation can turn into widespread inflammation of the lungs, which then has ripple effects across all organs of the body. This could also happen if the virus replicates faster than the immune system can respond, so that it then has to play catch-up to contain the pathogen—a situation that could also cause the immune defense to spiral out of control.
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...n-others-67160
    Yes, I saw that too.

    It fits with the fact that significant percentages of the younger people who fall seriously ill have comorbidities usually associated more with the elderly, like Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure etc.

    For the younger who don't have that medical history, perhaps it's some individual pattern of immune function, or the sheer volume of the virus to which they're exposed. Viral load matters, as we see with doctors and family members of the sick.

    The problem, of course, is that very big percentages of the population would fall into those categories if you add them all up, without taking into consideration that if there are high rates of infection, no health system as currently constituted could handle it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    I think it would be very interesting to analyse immune system of those who had COVID-19.
    There should be more facts surrounding the immune response, rather than age and underlying conditions. Why is it that some relatively young and healthy people have very difficult illness and some - very light symptoms?

    I know rather a number of people around me who are having very light flu/cold symptoms that have been lasting for about a month now. I suspect this all could be mild unregistered cases of COVID-19, only it is difficult to tell now.
    We cross posted. :)

    Yes, I think it's very possible.

    Viral load matters as well. Young doctors and nurses are dying of it, and so are younger family members sheltering in place with the sick.

    One thing that I didn't mention in the post is that the virus driving the immune system into hyper response may explain why a drug like Plaquenil helps, and the biologics for autoimmune disorders as well, although the researchers no longer mention them, because the costs are astronomical.

    Genetics may play a role here too, not only individually, but "ethnically", which is something they're going to have to investigate eventually.

    If someone is genetically prone to developing autoimmune disorders, a serious bacteriological infection, among other things like trauma or severe emotional stress, can trip them into one. The result is an immune system in hyperdrive, which then attacks the person's own body. The treatments all do the same thing, in one way or another, i.e. they dampen the immune response.

    Now, one could say it therefore makes no sense to give something that suppresses the immune system to a sufferer from a virus. However, what they only started discovering relatively recently is that these drugs may perhaps not really dampen the overall immune response; instead, they may help the immune system to not "misfire", i.e. patients may find not only a lessening of the symptoms of the autoimmune disorder, but more resistance to actual infection.

    I know from personal experience rather more about all this than I would wish, so, for what it's worth...

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    The virus was nearly stamped out in Tokyo. But then the cherry blossom festival came, and people filled the parks. From the photos I saw, people were taking their masks off to enjoy the fragrance..


    #breaking Tokyo Governor says city is on the verge of a major outbreak & situation is worsening. Number of daily coronavirus cases has more than doubled in one week. Tokyo has 120 hospital beds left for coronavirus patients. An epidemiologist warns Tokyo could be 'the next NYC.'



    I'm smelling my own blossoms in my yard and praying for next year...




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post


    This is how shop assistants in pharmacies and supermarkets should be protecting themselves in LT. There are not enough of masks for all people even though the recommendations is to wear them by everyone (everyone should treat themselves as virus spreaders now)
    If this pharmacy apotheke was in Greece, they would pay a fine, for overpopulation,
    the difference is that personel should be behind a glass like in banks
    the law here except such safety precautions also say about how many person enter, at pharmacys the law allow min 1 person per 15 m2 ​ (including personel) of clear area, including personel. (clear area = true area minus storage and warehouses,)
    Every where here is 15 m2, except Super markets were it is 10 m2 for now.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    This is an interesting article - why SARS-2 spreads so well compared to SARS-1 (though in many other aspects they are very similar)

    The new coronavirus has an HIV-like mutation that means its ability to bind with human cells could be up to 1,000 times as strong as the Sars virus, according to new research by scientists in China and Europe.
    Scientists showed that Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) entered the human body by binding with a receptor protein called ACE2 on a cell membrane. And some early studies suggested that the new coronavirus, which shares about 80 per cent of the genetic structure of Sars, might follow a similar path.

    But the ACE2 protein does not exist in large quantities in healthy people, and this partly helped to limit the scale of the Sars outbreak of 2002-03, in which infected about 8,000 people around the world.

    Other highly contagious viruses, including HIV and Ebola, target an enzyme called furin, which works as a protein activator in the human body. Many proteins are inactive or dormant when they are produced and have to be “cut” at specific points to activate their various functions.

    When looking at the genome sequence of the new coronavirus, Professor Ruan Jishou and his team at Nankai University in Tianjin found a section of mutated genes that did not exist in Sars, but were similar to those found in HIV and Ebola.

    “This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV [the new coronavirus] may be significantly different from the Sars coronavirus in the infection pathway,”
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...scientists-say


    The reason why some people think SARS-2 was manufactured is because of its similarity to SARs 2003. It is like an updated SARS - 1 version, rather than a new product. Earlier, SARs, MERs, EBOLA, HIV, they all were "originals" - entirely new viruses.

    So far, scientists do not know how to produce an entirely new virus. They take an existing one and alter it by deleting/inserting parts of different viruses, depending on qualities that they want to bring out in a new manufactured virus. In this respect
    SARS-CoV-2 looks like it was made on SARS 2003 platform plus some alterations regarding susceptibility.

    On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 might have developed by itself, only nobody can find an animal vector who had this virus naturally in nature. The whole story really makes one wonder. I suppose China tries to avoid any association with SARS-CoV-2 by any means, as it caused so much damage Worldwide.


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    a few days ago ... in Messapia:

    The Silence:

    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

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    ok is a month or 2 more,

    China already has the Fusion inhibitor EK1C4 ... etc cure
    I just wonder about its Cost,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok is a month or 2 more,

    China already has the Fusion inhibitor EK1C4 ... etc cure
    I just wonder about its Cost,
    Even if SARS-CoV-2 escaped from Wuhan laboratory, Chinese did not have vaccine against it. They would have used it to save their own people. Creating a new vaccine for coronavirus is somehow much more challenging compared to making flu vaccines.
    I am not sure about antivirals, supposedly these should be easier to make.

    Somehow I hope there could be a way to help people, which is not about profiting from it on a global level. Perhaps those with COViD-19 antivirals in their blood could donate it for free, so that antiviral serums could be made for those who get seriously ill.

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    for some countries, overpopulated, 3300 dead, mainly aged, is no problem infront the $.

    the more the dead at EU and USA, themore the profit.

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    Is it too late in some areas for the masks to make much difference?

    From La Stampa in one town in Lombardia, 70% of the population has the antibodies for Covid 19, i.e. were infected, and didn't show any symptoms whatsoever.

    That's touted as good news.

    However, 80 out of the 4600 inhabitants have died of it.

    Do the math; that's of the inhabitants, not the infected: it's 1.35% of the "total population".

    So, containment came too late.

    Is this what herd immunity looks like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Is it too late in some areas for the masks to make much difference? From La Stampa in one town in Lombardia, 70% of the population has the antibodies for Covid 19, i.e. were infected, and didn't show any symptoms whatsoever. That's touted as good news.However, 80 out of the 4600 inhabitants have died of it. Do the math; that's of the inhabitants, not the infected: it's 1.35% of the "total population". So, containment came too late.Is this what herd immunity looks like?

    some how,over 60-66% population to have antibodies.
    Italy paid the 2/1000 people, hospital beds of grrr, Εντατικη,
    you know the hospital beds with mechanical support
    same 2/1000 had the USA, that is why has this problem,
    Japan has 9/1000 and China has 8/1000
    and offcourse the aged population,
    estimation of 'immune of the heard, time was 2-3 months by Scans who allow it happen,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Is it too late in some areas for the masks to make much difference?

    From La Stampa in one town in Lombardia, 70% of the population has the antibodies for Covid 19, i.e. were infected, and didn't show any symptoms whatsoever.

    That's touted as good news.

    However, 80 out of the 4600 inhabitants have died of it.

    Do the math; that's of the inhabitants, not the infected: it's 1.35% of the "total population".

    So, containment came too late.

    Is this what herd immunity looks like?
    How did they managed to test people? Is it reliable?

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    1 members found this post helpful.


    Pictures - work from home in VIlnius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    a few days ago ... in Messapia:

    The Silence:

    Fratelli d’Italia:




    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

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    Sorry, mine pictures are out of the line here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Sorry, mine pictures are out of the line here
    Why would they be out of line?

    It's good to see people smiling while cooped up. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Why would they be out of line?

    It's good to see people smiling while cooped up. :)
    Unless you mean they'd be more appropriate on a video thread?

    I've posted things like this on both...although I'll grant you I doubt they're making music on their balconies in Lombardia, God save them, and for how long they'll have the heart even in the south, as hunger starts to bite, I don't know.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBByYjjvNzs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Is it too late in some areas for the masks to make much difference?

    From La Stampa in one town in Lombardia, 70% of the population has the antibodies for Covid 19, i.e. were infected, and didn't show any symptoms whatsoever.

    That's touted as good news.

    However, 80 out of the 4600 inhabitants have died of it.

    Do the math; that's of the inhabitants, not the infected: it's 1.35% of the "total population".

    So, containment came too late.

    Is this what herd immunity looks like?
    My apologies, fellow members...should have read the article myself.

    I'm told this is the actual story: In Northern Italy, 60 volunteers who thought they'd never suffered from Covid 19 gave blood. 40 of them tested positive for Covid 19.

    So, 70% "infection" rate, and no serious illness at least, i.e. high fever etc.

    It doesn't, of course, mean they don't become ill tomorrow.

    Infection rates even close to this would explain what's happening in the hospitals in Lombardia.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    there was an estimation days ago, posted, number of those who have or pass coronavirus ,
    it depends upon 'orphan' samples, and the expected of ones confirmed,
    in each country is different,
    Estimation for W Europe was average 6,8 and not 2.5 so about confirmed x 6.8
    in my country they estimate by x5 the confirmed, when mention about true spread,

    Yet this not Certified, and not trust worthy,

  25. #1175
    Advisor Achievements:
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    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
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    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post


    Pictures - work from home in VIlnius
    that is the easy part - lock them all up
    how are you going to release them once the worst is over
    any ideas?

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