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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    Country: Spain





    The cry of anguish and the complaints that the residences of older people sent to the growth of infections and deaths in their centers have forced a reaction in the Government: the Minister of Health Salvador Illa and Vice President Pablo Iglesias announced yesterday a game of 300 millions for the autonomous communities to support home care for the elderly and nursing homes with Covid-19 patients.

    The lament of the residences forces a reaction of 300 million from the Government

    Pablo Iglesias apologizes and gives absolute priority to medicalizing nursing homes

    At last the Spanish government has heeded the pleas of the residences of old people. Perhaps for the government it was too strong morally to say to the residences: Let them die as if other governments of the U.E. to their residences.


    https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20...-gobierno.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Nothing seems strange to me lately.

    What really bothers me is that this pandemic could have been avoided, ...

    Xi broke the World.
    that is what I expected you and others here to observe,

    HOW COME CHINA MANAGE TO ISOLATED VIRUS AT HUBEI ONLY, INSIDE HER BOARDERS
    WHILE INFECTED REST OF THE WORLD?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    that is what I expected you and others here to observe,

    HOW COME CHINA MANAGE TO ISOLATED VIRUS AT HUBEI ONLY, INSIDE HER BOARDERS
    WHILE INFECTED REST OF THE WORLD?
    Because, as I posted up thread, they closed off Hubei province from the rest of China on January 23rd, but continued to let international flights operate. People flew all over the globe from Wuhan's airports.

    That isn't the whole story, however. The earliest case on the west coast of the U.S. would have had to have arrived from Wuhan the second week of January. Going by the phylogeny of the strains I published it was probably in Belgium around the same time.

    It makes sense, since the first cases in Wuhan show up in late November, early December.

    It was in December that they punishing doctors who were talking about it, and ordered researchers to destroy their research.

    Also, one of the strains in Europe is from Jinjiang, so I doubt that there was no incidence of the disease in China outside of Hubei.

    The U.S. and Italy banned flights from China on January 31st, but it was too late. It was already there.


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    @Yetos ... they were talking about it on the radio yesterday.
    Xi (Jinping of China)

    I noticed this :)
    Ξ Xi 60
    ξ xi
    𐤎
    XI 11

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    Well, IF this article in is correct, it's clear why hospital workers so often get ill, and some of them, unfortunately, die.



    https://www.propublica.org/article/a...young-patients

    The next person who tells me it's just like the flu is going to get smacked.

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    Terrible news from Singapore: second wave is picking up steam. 142 new cases today and reimposition of full lockdown--cannot even have one friend over for coffee in your home without risking big fine. https://moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/29-more-cases-discharged-142-new-cases-of-covid-19-infection-confirmed h/t @Worldometers

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    To gargle or not to gargle?

    So does gargling work? Some people definitely think so. Japan widely believes gargling water multiple times a day can prevent upper respiratory tract infections & it is included as basic preventive measure for respiratory infection such as COVID-19

    But we already know that didn’t turn out so well in a clinical study. Hydrogen peroxide and ordinary mouthwash (e.g. listerine) has been shown to inactivate coronaviruses & flu because it’s actually easy to disrupt their greasy outer coats (lipid membranes).

    But there are no compelling clinical data that these work, and even if you believe the Japanese study showed water works, then there’s no evidence that other gargling solutions (dilute hydrogen peroxide, mouthwash, etc) are better than water.

    If you choose to gargle, here are some safe solutions: tap water, salt water (1/4-1/2 tsp salt in 8oz of water); 1% hydrogen peroxide (1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide, 2 parts water); 1% betadine (povidone-iodine). Note: never swallow a gargling solution.

    As I mentioned, fwiw, I've been gargling since the beginning: warm water and salt a couple of times a day. Sometimes, old tried and true remedies, like chicken soup, for example, do work.

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    Under the "just great" category...

    Well, at least we don't eat them.

    "Researchers found that almost half of the mountain lions they tested showed signs of plague infection."

    "
    The Y. pestis bacteria is behind the Black Death, the mid-1300s epidemic of bubonic plague that in five years killed over 20 million people in Europe. These days, only about seven people catch Y. pestis each year in the United States. The bacteria lives in the soil, gets picked up by fleas living on rodents, and infects other creatures on its way up the food chain. The new evidence in cougars, also known as pumas and mountain lions, shows how flexible and dangerous the pathogen is in different hosts."

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...um=socialmedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Because, as I posted up thread, they closed off Hubei province from the rest of China on January 23rd, but continued to let international flights operate. People flew all over the globe from Wuhan's airports.

    That isn't the whole story, however. The earliest case on the west coast of the U.S. would have had to have arrived from Wuhan the second week of January. Going by the phylogeny of the strains I published it was probably in Belgium around the same time.

    It makes sense, since the first cases in Wuhan show up in late November, early December.

    It was in December that they punishing doctors who were talking about it, and ordered researchers to destroy their research.

    Also, one of the strains in Europe is from Jinjiang, so I doubt that there was no incidence of the disease in China outside of Hubei.

    The U.S. and Italy banned flights from China on January 31st, but it was too late. It was already there.
    Did they let people from Wuhan on international flights after the lockdown on januari 23 rd?
    In most countries after lockdown they released foreigners to go home.

    I think you misread the strain phylogeny chart.

    The first case of corona in Belgium was on 3rd februari, a man coming back from Wuhan put in isolation till he was healed.
    The 2nd case was 29 february someone hospitalised who had been in France.
    From 1st march there were multiple cases of people who came back from holiday in Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    trilateral exist,
    Bil gates exists,
    and where the hell (which counry) your eployer has the right to test you?
    In the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    Did they let people from Wuhan on international flights after the lockdown on januari 23 rd?
    In most countries after lockdown they released foreigners to go home.

    I think you misread the strain phylogeny chart.

    The first case of corona in Belgium was on 3rd februari, a man coming back from Wuhan put in isolation till he was healed.
    The 2nd case was 29 february someone hospitalised who had been in France.
    From 1st march there were multiple cases of people who came back from holiday in Italy.
    Yes, in a previous post, I linked to an article that said that 40,000 people were let in the US on direct flights from China even after Trump supposedly closed the borders. He touts that as his greatest accomplishment in fighting the virus. That does not count indirect flights.

    Yes there so many people that came back from Italy and France and Spain.

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    New research indicates that the coronavirus began to circulate in the New York area by mid-February, weeks before the first confirmed case, and that travelers brought in the virus mainly from Europe, not Asia.
    “The majority is clearly European,” said Harm van Bakel, a geneticist at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, who co-wrote a study awaiting peer review.
    A separate team at NYU Grossman School of Medicine came to strikingly similar conclusions, despite studying a different group of cases. Both teams analyzed genomes from coronaviruses taken from New Yorkers starting in mid-March.
    The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/most-york...120729916.html

    Just like I suspected, West Coast from China, East Coast from Europe.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    In the US.
    usually, only before you get hired.

    ... and I remember that it was extra illegal in Italy to even enter a restaurant kitchen without a valid health card (Libretto Sanitario).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    usually, only before you get hired.

    ... and I remember that it was extra illegal in Italy to even enter a restaurant kitchen without a valid health card (Libretto Sanitario).
    Yes most of the time but they reserve the right to test you at any time. It would probably take some strange behavior on your part in most jobs.

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    Did they let people from Wuhan on international flights after the lockdown on januari 23 rd?
    In most countries after lockdown they released foreigners to go home.
    I misspoke. Not Wuhan airport itself. It supposedly closed on January 23rd. I don't know if the other airports in Hubei were closed, but infected tourists continued to fly into Italy from China until the 30th. The Chinese couple who became ill in Rome and were quarantined landed in Italy January 28th.

    So far as I know, the U.S. and Italy were the first countries to close their borders to flights from China.

    I don't understand the harping on this. The Chinese government knew about it in DECEMBER.

    I think you misread the strain phylogeny chart.

    The first case of corona in Belgium was on 3rd februari, a man coming back from Wuhan put in isolation till he was healed.
    The 2nd case was 29 february someone hospitalised who had been in France.
    From 1st march there were multiple cases of people who came back from holiday in Italy.
    I'm aware of that.

    However, why, if you put the cursor on the line into many of the branches, including some into Italy, and follow it back, does it say: Belgium, and at a relatively early date?

    It may show not necessarily the first documented case, but the probable time of the distinctive mutations. That's how they found out that the virus entered humans in late November after all, even if they don't have the exact patient.

    If that doesn't satisfy you, contact them.

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    [QUOTE=Angela;600880]

    I misspoke. Not Wuhan airport itself. It supposedly closed on January 23rd. I don't know if the other airports in Hubei were closed, but infected tourists continued to fly into Italy from China until the 30th. The Chinese couple who became ill in Rome and were quarantined landed in Italy January 28th.

    So far as I know, the U.S. and Italy were the first countries to close their borders to flights from China.

    I don't understand the harping on this. The Chinese government knew about it in DECEMBER.



    I'm aware of that.

    However, why, if you put the cursor on the line into many of the branches, including some into Italy, and follow it back, does it say: Belgium, and at a relatively early date?

    It may show not necessarily the first documented case, but the probable time of the distinctive mutations. That's how they found out that the virus entered humans in late November after all, even if they don't have the exact patient.

    If that doesn't satisfy you, contact them.
    Addressing China’s President Xi Jinping directly, historian Niall Ferguson wrote in an op-ed: “... after it became clear that there was a full-blown epidemic spreading from Wuhan to the rest of Hubei province, why did you cut off travel from Hubei to the rest of China – on January 23 – but not from Hubei to the rest of the world?”
    Ferguson’s accusations refer to China continuing to allow international travel long past January 23, the date when it imposed serious restrictions on travel within China in an attempt to quarantine Wuhan from the rest of the country.


    On February 4, the Civil Aviation Administration of China requested that local airlines keep operating international flights to countries that hadn’t imposed restrictions on inbound travel, according to Reuters.
    Behind the US, China is the world’s second-largest air travel market.
    By early February, airlines around the world had cut flights to China, setting off economic shocks in the industry and stranding travelers. Infections climbed past 17,000 in over 20 countries by February 3.
    Throughout January and February, China imposed lockdowns on its cities as the virus spread internally, but continued to allow international travel abroad.

    Reuters news agency.

    Any other nitpicking objections?

    Perhaps someone would like to make an excuse for all the defective masks, and gowns, and testing kits they sold?

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    "One problem, though, is that CPAP and other positive-pressure machines pose a risk to health care workers, he said. The devices push aerosolized virus particles into the air, where anyone entering the patient’s room can inhale them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    "One problem, though, is that CPAP and other positive-pressure machines pose a risk to health care workers, he said. The devices push aerosolized virus particles into the air, where anyone entering the patient’s room can inhale them."
    Is there no filter on those?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Yes most of the time but they reserve the right to test you at any time. It would probably take some strange behavior on your part in most jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    usually, only before you get hired.

    ... and I remember that it was extra illegal in Italy to even enter a restaurant kitchen without a valid health card (Libretto Sanitario).
    oh, this tests,
    offcourse, at every job requirements are needed.
    as concerns temporary conditions of health, vision etc,
    according the job and the law.
    but for drug usage, or prevous diseases, etc?

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    [QUOTE=Angela;600880]
    <br>
    <br>
    I misspoke. Not Wuhan airport itself. It supposedly closed on January 23rd. I don't know if the other airports in Hubei were closed, but infected tourists continued to fly into Italy from China until the 30th. The Chinese couple who became ill in Rome and were quarantined landed in Italy January 28th.<br>
    <br>
    So far as I know, the U.S. and Italy were the first countries to close their borders to flights from China. <br>
    <br>
    I don't understand the harping on this. The Chinese government knew about it in DECEMBER. <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    I'm aware of that.<br>
    <br>
    However, why, if you put the cursor on the line into many of the branches, including some into Italy, and follow it back, does it say: Belgium, and at a relatively early date? <br>
    <br>
    It may show not necessarily the first documented case, but the probable time of the distinctive mutations. That's how they found out that the virus entered humans in late November after all, even if they don't have the exact patient. <br>
    <br>
    If that doesn't satisfy you, contact them.
    as far as I can see, when I press Belgium, the earliest is on the bottom line, and it corresponds to the 1st known case, februari 3rd

    it was a plane evacuating Belgians from Wuhan
    all passengers were put in quarantaine and tested multiple times, only 1 tested positive and he was kept in quarantaine till he was fully healed

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Is there no filter on those?
    I would certainly hope so, but apparently with some ventilator models it's not adequate with this virus if they're measuring this incredible viral load in the air.

    That's besides the fact that some of these patients are in a panic, and ripping tubes out.

    No wonder so many doctors died in China and Italy.

    The problem is larger, I think. This may not be a disease ICU doctors have ever seen before,i.e. it isn't really pneumonia.

    More and more doctors are starting to think it's more like high altitude sickness than a "normal" interstitial pneumonia.

    See the link below...
    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928156#vp_2

    "Whyte: [From Luciano] Gattinoni. Were you aware of what was going on in Italy before you noticed these observations or did that come after the fact?
    Kyle-Sidell: That came a little bit after. And I wasn't aware. I can't even remember the exact timeline. But in my reading, I came upon decompression, pulmonary sickness, which is essentially the bends—when divers dive and come up too quickly—which seemed to mirror the clinical picture of these patients. And in discussions of other people, it came up that they do appear similar clinically. This is not to say that the pathophysiology underlying it is similar, but clinically they look a lot more like high-altitude sickness than they do pneumonia. Regarding, Gattinoni, he published something on March 20th, which was about 2 days before I opened the ICU. I don't know that I read it then, but somehow it got passed around. In my mind, by the time I read what he was saying, I'd come under the impression that this just wasn't what we were used to seeing. It was a high-compliance disease, which every pulmonologist had. Anyone managing a ventilator can see. That's not a question. So when I read his stuff, where he is suggesting that the management strategy that we use is essentially somewhat flipped, at least in these high-compliant patients, it just became more clear that that if we operate under a paradigm whereby we are treating ARDS in these high-compliant patients, we may not be operating under the right paradigm."

    "First, I'll describe what Gattinoni was saying, which is that really what we're seeing in ARDS are two different phenotypes: one in which the lungs display what you call high compliance, low elastance; and one in which they have low compliance and high elastance. To say it simply for people who are not pulmonologists, if you think of the lungs as a balloon, typically when people have ARDS or pneumonia, the balloon gets thicker. So not only do you lack oxygen, but the pressure and the work to blow up the balloon becomes greater. So one's respiratory muscles become tired as they struggle to breathe. And patients need pressure. What Gattinoni is saying is that there are essentially two different phenotypes, one in which the balloon is thicker, which is a low-compliance disease. But in the beginning they display high compliance. Imagine if the balloon is not actually thicker but thinner, so they'd suffer from a lack of oxygen. But it is not that they suffer from too much work to blow up the balloon. As far as how we're going to switch, we're going to take our approach differently from the traditional ARDSnet protocol in that we are going to do an oxygen-first strategy: We're going to leave the oxygen levels as high as possible and we're going to try to use the lowest pressures possible to try to keep the oxygen levels high. That's the approach we're going to do, so long as the patients continue to display the physiology of a low elastance, high-compliance disease."

    So, what they've started doing in Italy is using these CPAC hoods, but not ventilating.

    Whether it's correct or not only time will tell, I guess.

    Maybe we should be halving the orders for ventilators and getting these made too

  22. #1322
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    ivermectin injectable
    Do not try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    oh, this tests,
    offcourse, at every job requirements are needed.
    as concerns temporary conditions of health, vision etc,
    according the job and the law.
    but for drug usage, or prevous diseases, etc?
    It’s about safeguarding the workplace and the biz in general.

    Some general health, some drug and infectious disease test

    Not all jobs are the same, and depending on the work you do, they might still hire you even if you’re a stoner 🥴

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    How come this damn virus is so strong, never getting weaker? start from china to Europe, USA and return to Asia.

    1. "The coronavirus outbreak in new york originated mainly in travelers from europe, not asia, according to new studies cited by the new york times on wednesday."

    2. "80% of NYC's coronavirus patients who are put on ventilators ultimately die, and some doctors are trying to stop using them"

    3. "on wednesday, singapore reported a record of 142 new infections in the city-state, many of which have been connected to foreign workers living in compact dormitories. the new resurgence in cases has prompted the government to close schools and most workplaces for at least a month."

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    [QUOTE=bicicleur 2;600896]
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    as far as I can see, when I press Belgium, the earliest is on the bottom line, and it corresponds to the 1st known case, februari 3rd

    it was a plane evacuating Belgians from Wuhan
    all passengers were put in quarantaine and tested multiple times, only 1 tested positive and he was kept in quarantaine till he was fully healed
    Go to the first green line, from which all the other green lines branch. It clearly says: INFERRED DATE 1/15/20, country confidence Belgium 64%. Continue along that line: INFERRED DATE 1/19/20, country confidence Beligum 98%.

    They're working backwards through the mutations, as they did to get a place and date for the first cases in Wuhan in late November. They're NOT just using the hospital confirmed cases.

    https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global?d...full&r=country

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