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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

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    1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    offcourse,
    but this happens where?
    at the less of the 1b population of N Atlantic, which 'strangely' been hit hard, or 'targeted' to been hit hard?

    that is the odd I can not understand
    What the heck are you talking about? It's happened in Spain, Britain, Belgium,Northern Italy, to mention a few in Europe, and in Iran in the Middle East, and on both coasts of the United States.

    Just because luckily only a handful of people in Greece were exposed doesn't mean there's a conspiracy about its prevalence. Greece is not the only place on earth which counts.

    I've ignored a lot of posts where you've gone over the line, and calls for me to ban you, giving you second chances because I thought they were momentary aberrations for personal reasons, but this is completely over the line. It's absolute crap and those of us in the heart of the storm don't want to hear it. DROP IT or you're out of here.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    The Oxford scientists now say that with an emergency approval from regulators, the first few million doses of their vaccine could be available by September — at least several months ahead of any of the other announced efforts — if it proves to be effective.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/w...te-oxford.html
    I hope this works!
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What the heck are you talking about? It's happened in Spain, Britain, Belgium,Northern Italy, to mention a few in Europe, and in Iran in the Middle East, and on both coasts of the United States.

    Just because luckily only a handful of people in Greece were exposed doesn't mean there's a conspiracy about its prevalence. Greece is not the only place on earth which counts.

    I've ignored a lot of posts where you've gone over the line, and calls for me to ban you, giving you second chances because I thought they were momentary aberrations for personal reasons, but this is completely over the line. It's absolute crap and those of us in the heart of the storm don't want to hear it. DROP IT or you're out of here.
    offcourse, Spain France UK Belgium Netherlands are also North Atlantic, aren't they?
    I said primary N Atlantic, and secondary Turkey-Iran (middle East)
    as for Italy maybe not swim in Atlanric ocean but is a culture highly connected.

    ban me for what? for my feeling and observation that, maybe I am target of a virus?
    a part of nature selective choice?

    I agree that most of us do not want to hear,
    but hiding behind finger, does not mean we all did not observe this phenomenon,

    Yet until now most of us consider it as as the random effect,

    Oll Klear,what I say, is that we all accept it as the random result,
    but we all observed it, and we all afraid to discuss.

    so the first who open mouth is always the cursed one,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    offcourse, Spain France UK Belgium Netherlands are also North Atlantic, aren't they?
    I said primary N Atlantic, and secondary Turkey-Iran (middle East)
    as for Italy maybe not swim in Atlanric ocean but is a culture highly connected.

    ban me for what? for my feeling and observation that, maybe I am target of a virus?
    a part of nature selective choice?

    I agree that most of us do not want to hear,
    but hiding behind finger, does not mean we all did not observe this phenomenon,

    Yet until now most of us consider it as as the random effect,

    Oll Klear,what I say, is that we all accept it as the random result,
    but we all observed it, and we all afraid to discuss.

    so the first who open mouth is always the cursed one,
    Drop this conspiracy crap now. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Drop this conspiracy crap now. Period.
    I will, but

    can you give me a good explanation why such statistics?
    except the random hit.

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    With 1.000.000+ infected, almost 60.000 dead, and a broken US Economy,
    If the US was a target and the conspiracy theories were real, the United States would have Nuked any place on Earth regardless of Governments (with or without nukes) or Private Institutions involvement.

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    Interesting... "Hydrogen peroxide nebulizer to treat Covid 19 infection" from March 21, 2020. Associated names-- Thomas Levy M.D., J.D., Dr. Frank Shallenberger, and Richard Cheng M.D., Ph.D.

    Trump is a spitballer, no doubt about it. I appreciate his optimism and fighting spirit, some of you may not. I would choose timely malaria meds. and a hydrogen peroxide inhaler rinse over a barbaric intubation with it's nearly 90% fatality rate. (I have a health history that indicates my system will almost certainly create the storm, so I will gobble my mosquito pills with reckless abandon.)

    Regarding Bill Gates... I experienced a jolt of wry humor mixed with morose frustration after some thread contributors labelled me a conspiracy theorist for merely repeating what Gates proudly proclaimed himself. If one is unfamiliar with Bill and his "unique" global outlook... it really does come off as shockingly nutty upon initial review.

    Invisible tattoos lasting five years, carrying all your health data that can be read be any smart phone?

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    Also, the way forward with Covid will be (eventually) therapy over vaccine. Specifically anti-body therapy. We need to distill microscopic successful fighters from survivors and thrivers, grow them in a giant bucket, and stick them back into the frail and distressed among us.

    As a single stranded RNA virus, Covid 19 will mutate too quickly for vaccines-- not to mention this virus is new to the human genome and hasn't yet found it's sweet spot. We don't have vaccines for the common cold and that's Wuhan Flu's closest neighbor, genetically speaking.

    Also, I have not seen this anywhere... but as an out of the box thinker I will share this insight hatched in my bulbous cranium (size eight hat size). It is my suspicion that when Covid enters the body... it doesn't leave. Covid 19 violates the blood/brain barrier, it is found in fecal matter, the spinal column, EVERYWHERE. I think our bodies figure out this critter after a few weeks (if we are lucky), but that in times of stress the bugger will break out again... kinda like a full-body herpes experience, or at least a herpes of the lungs experience. This line of thinking would explain the surprising and buzz-killing instances of re-infection found both in China and in Europe.

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    Well, from another perspective, it is just a common fact that many viruses stay next to us, but appear as illness only when our immune response is weakened by some other unrelated reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    As a single stranded RNA virus, Covid 19 will mutate too quickly for vaccines--
    is that the reason, that they plan to imput a microchip with the vaccine?

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    Do you think people will like being chipped? I somehow doubt. I would refuse vaccination if it is with some chipping. In that case I would prefer getting ill and developing natural immunity. So everything depends on your choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I never liked punks,
    but sometimes they have nice songs



    out of subject. I know,


    When the Power Elite get directly impacted by something it no longer operates in the abstract,

    They won't leave any stones unturned until they find out everything.
    Last edited by Salento; 29-04-20 at 14:26.

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    Back in this world Gilead's remdesivir helped at least 52% of the patients and that either the 5 day of the 10 day treatment had the same effect:

    "In this study, the time to clinical improvement for 50 percent of patients was 10 days in the 5-day treatment group and 11 days in the 10-day treatment group. More than half of patients in both treatment groups were discharged from the hospital by Day 14 (5-day: 60.0%, n=120/200 vs.10-day: 52.3% n=103/197; p=0.14). At Day 14, 64.5 percent (n=129/200) of patients in the 5-day treatment group and 53.8 percent (n=106/197) of patients in the 10-day treatment group achieved clinical recovery.
    Clinical outcomes varied by geography. Outside of Italy, the overall mortality rate at Day 14 was 7 percent (n=23/320) across both treatment groups, with 64 percent (n=205/320) of patients experiencing clinical improvement at Day 14 and 61 percent (n=196/320) of patients discharged from the hospital.
    Impact of Earlier Treatment
    In an exploratory analysis, patients in the study who received remdesivir within 10 days of symptom onset had improved outcomes compared with those treated after more than 10 days of symptoms. Pooling data across treatment arms, by Day 14, 62 percent of patients treated early were able to be discharged from the hospital, compared with 49 percent of patients who were treated late."

    https://www.gilead.com/news-and-pres...evere-covid-19

    No panacea but it seems to help. Remember this was not a randomized trial vs a control group. It's aim was to determine the optimal treatment time and whether it was more effective early vs late.


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Please watch this whistleblower video from Sara NP-- found on Youtube channel hipe GALAXY or on channel GulagBound (fast approaching 100,000 views). She touches on what I have been fearing about current Covid 19 treatment methods. Forced intubation has always seemed "off" to me. It stresses lung tissue, introduces Sepsis and other pathogens, plus we all know how insanely high the mortality rate is with this primitive approach.

    Trump's practical solution has been sandbagged by the big pharma gang because there is simply not enough money to be made using medications that are 40 years old (and very cheap) compared to the hyped, biologically engineered, super fancy and complicated industry productions.

    You don't put a cancer patient that is in hospice care on chemotherapy or radiation... nor should you put a Covid 19 test subject that is mechanically intubated on Malaria medication. Trump's solution works only if meds are given as soon as possible after initial exposure.

    I am concerned by the seemingly countless financial connections between those in upper echelons of the CDC and NIH to Big Pharm.

    And now Bill Gates is dedicating 100% of his "nonprofit" into Corona Virus research. Please allow me this prediction... Gates develops a vaccine, then gets a crucial stamp of approval from China (because of course the CCP will be getting a cut of the profits) and next he takes his lucrative "cure" to the CDC, and then worldwide. No one will be able to verify his company's research because his foundation is private so everything will be quite mysterious. (By the way, ask India what they think of Bill Gates and his vaccines.) There will be a lot of "you're going to have to trust us" and "we are here to help"... Um, no thank you Bill.

    P.S. I have a handmade sign ready for when I eventually get dinged with Covid 19-- and in the event I can't communicate. It says "NO Ventilators Please" "Oxygen therapy is O.K. though".
    Trump's solution is not necessary a solution (nor is it "his solution"). While CQ and HCQ may have worked in some instances, it is not a cure, far from it. Current research trends are pointing towards it being relatively ineffective. Secondly, intubation is a form of oxygen therapy delivery, especially in instances where continuous therapy is required, in some instances it must be done to save lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Trump should take his own medical advice and inject himself with disinfectant.
    Now I don't wish to dive into a flame war about this particular subject, I would just like to say as an outsider looking in on the US, Trump, being the president of the USA should take responsibility for the things he says as they have an impact on a portion of the American population even if he intended it to be "sarcastic" or not. There will be some people who misunderstand and attempt to inject disinfectant or whatever, we already saw that couple who consumed aquarium grade chloroquine.


    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Interesting... "Hydrogen peroxide nebulizer to treat Covid 19 infection" from March 21, 2020. Associated names-- Thomas Levy M.D., J.D., Dr. Frank Shallenberger, and Richard Cheng M.D., Ph.D.

    Trump is a spitballer, no doubt about it. I appreciate his optimism and fighting spirit, some of you may not. I would choose timely malaria meds. and a hydrogen peroxide inhaler rinse over a barbaric intubation with it's nearly 90% fatality rate. (I have a health history that indicates my system will almost certainly create the storm, so I will gobble my mosquito pills with reckless abandon.)

    Regarding Bill Gates... I experienced a jolt of wry humor mixed with morose frustration after some thread contributors labelled me a conspiracy theorist for merely repeating what Gates proudly proclaimed himself. If one is unfamiliar with Bill and his "unique" global outlook... it really does come off as shockingly nutty upon initial review.

    Invisible tattoos lasting five years, carrying all your health data that can be read be any smart phone?
    Do you have a source for this nebulization of H2O2 treatment, because it is not tested for this use, and most quick research links back to Dr. Mercola (a man who has seen many FDA warnings): https://www.truthorfiction.com/josep...ogen-peroxide/. In regards to intubation of COVID-19 patients, most patients who end up intubated are usually diabetics or those with hypertension, and at the point that intubation is chosen they very likely are critically ill and cannot breathe on their own.

    Please don't literally gobble mosquito pills with "reckless abandon", do your research please.


    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Also, the way forward with Covid will be (eventually) therapy over vaccine. Specifically anti-body therapy. We need to distill microscopic successful fighters from survivors and thrivers, grow them in a giant bucket, and stick them back into the frail and distressed among us.

    As a single stranded RNA virus, Covid 19 will mutate too quickly for vaccines-- not to mention this virus is new to the human genome and hasn't yet found it's sweet spot. We don't have vaccines for the common cold and that's Wuhan Flu's closest neighbor, genetically speaking.

    Also, I have not seen this anywhere... but as an out of the box thinker I will share this insight hatched in my bulbous cranium (size eight hat size). It is my suspicion that when Covid enters the body... it doesn't leave. Covid 19 violates the blood/brain barrier, it is found in fecal matter, the spinal column, EVERYWHERE. I think our bodies figure out this critter after a few weeks (if we are lucky), but that in times of stress the bugger will break out again... kinda like a full-body herpes experience, or at least a herpes of the lungs experience. This line of thinking would explain the surprising and buzz-killing instances of re-infection found both in China and in Europe.

    We don't know if therapy will be the path over vaccination, with the number of resources pouring into developing a vaccine and promising candidates with estimated use by September it may be the other way around, but right now we just don't know, I don't see the point in speculating on this. The SARS-CoV-2, other wise known as 2019-nCoV is more closely related to a bat coronaviruses a quote from a study:
    By analyzing genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2, it was found that SARS-CoV-2 felled within the subgenus Sarbecovirus of the genus Betacoronavirus and was closely related to two bat-derived SARS-like coronaviruses, bat-SL-CoVZC45 and bat-SL-CoVZXC21, but were relatively distant from SARS-CoV 15, 18, 57-59. Meanwhile, Zhou and colleagues showed that SARS-CoV-2 had 96.2% overall genome sequence identity throughout the genome to BatCoV RaTG13, a bat coronavirus detected in Rhinolophus affinis from Yunnan province 14.
    You can read more about SARS-CoV-2 and its closest relatives here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7098030/

    Also worth reading, and it pertains to your comments about the virus being found in several locations in the body (or causing damage beyond the respiratory system): https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ody-brain-toes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Nothing is certain for now,
    and nobody knows for sure,

    there was a proposal at December 2019 by MIT, that with first vaccination import a chip,
    the chip will be rewritable, and will gather all informations about your immunities and vaccinations,

    but nothing is decided yet, just proposals,

    Vaccination is a private matter, nobody can impose it on you, if you disagree. At least this is how it is in my country (or in any free country, I suppose).
    I mean, I am not absolutely against any vaccination, but in my adulthood I am not getting any, because I don't need it.
    In case of COVID-19, I think I've already recovered from it, so I will not need that one, too.

    So I am not worried about any such conspiracy theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Vaccination is a private matter, nobody can impose it on you, if you disagree. At least this is how it is in my country (or in any free country, I suppose).
    I mean, I am not absolutely against any vaccination, but in my adulthood I am not getting any, because I don't need it.
    In case of COVID-19, I think I've already recovered from it, so I will not need that one, too.

    So I am not worried about any such conspiracy theories.
    It's partly a privat matter. Of course no one can force you (at lest not in democracies). Nevertheless in order to get herd immunity the vaccination grade must be high to have effect. Of course you always have some 'free riders'. But for child day care it's in my country mostly obliged and that makes perfectly sense to me...

    IMO there are practical no excuses....why should you refuse vaccinations....?
    In my country it's either 'deo volente' from the bible belt or some 'new age' types that refuge it.

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    I am just saying that if you don't want a vaccination because it comes with a chip (violation of personal privacy) you may refuse it.

    Regarding why a person may refuse a vaccination, the reasons may vary. Some people may have allergic reactions, for instance.
    I refuse flu vaccination because a) I don't need them as I am not falling ill with flu, b) annual flu vaccination may be impairing immune system response to new viruses (this is a conclusion from serious research, I attached it somewhere under discussion why Italians are falling ill so badly with COVID-19).

    Usually, if I am offered some sort of vaccination, I research the topic and then depending on the information, take a decision if it is really needed. I think relying on independent research is better than just following and doing whatever you're told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Trump's solution is not necessary a solution (nor is it "his solution"). While CQ and HCQ may have worked in some instances, it is not a cure, far from it. Current research trends are pointing towards it being relatively ineffective. Secondly, intubation is a form of oxygen therapy delivery, especially in instances where continuous therapy is required, in some instances it must be done to save lives.



    Now I don't wish to dive into a flame war about this particular subject, I would just like to say as an outsider looking in on the US, Trump, being the president of the USA should take responsibility for the things he says as they have an impact on a portion of the American population even if he intended it to be "sarcastic" or not. There will be some people who misunderstand and attempt to inject disinfectant or whatever, we already saw that couple who consumed aquarium grade chloroquine.




    Do you have a source for this nebulization of H2O2 treatment, because it is not tested for this use, and most quick research links back to Dr. Mercola (a man who has seen many FDA warnings): https://www.truthorfiction.com/josep...ogen-peroxide/. In regards to intubation of COVID-19 patients, most patients who end up intubated are usually diabetics or those with hypertension, and at the point that intubation is chosen they very likely are critically ill and cannot breathe on their own.

    Please don't literally gobble mosquito pills with "reckless abandon", do your research please.





    We don't know if therapy will be the path over vaccination, with the number of resources pouring into developing a vaccine and promising candidates with estimated use by September it may be the other way around, but right now we just don't know, I don't see the point in speculating on this. The SARS-CoV-2, other wise known as 2019-nCoV is more closely related to a bat coronaviruses a quote from a study:

    You can read more about SARS-CoV-2 and its closest relatives here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7098030/

    Also worth reading, and it pertains to your comments about the virus being found in several locations in the body (or causing damage beyond the respiratory system): https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ody-brain-toes
    Thank you for the information and for taking the time to respond to some of this nonsense.

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    Press briefing by Dr. Fauci on a large scale, multi-national, randomized, placebo controlled study on Remdesivir shows deaths were decreased from 15% to 11%, and recovery time from 15 to 11 days.

    It may not sound like much, but he clearly explains why it's such a big deal.


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    Between the Gilead study on treatment length and whether to take it early or late and the CDC randomized study, it seems that we have found an effective therapy. Is it a panacea? No, but it gives us some hope for hospitalized patients. We are also studying whether this drug in combination with other drugs might be even more effective. We still don't have answers why some people have no symptoms some have light symptoms some have severe symptoms and some die, over and above age and underlying medical conditions. Is it viral load? Genes? Why do smokers not get it? All kinds of questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Between the Gilead study on treatment length and whether to take it early or late and the CDC randomized study, it seems that we have found an effective therapy. Is it a panacea? No, but it gives us some hope for hospitalized patients. We are also studying whether this drug in combination with other drugs might be even more effective.
    It's great news, isn't it? Interesting the bit about combining it with a monoclonal antibody. I wonder which one?

    There's that link with HIV and bubonic plague again.

    That would also tie in with the genetics studies showing that as with those two diseases, northern Europeans may have more resistance to CoV-2. That might be one factor in the differential outcomes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's great news, isn't it? Interesting the bit about combining it with a monoclonal antibody. I wonder which one?

    There's that link with HIV and bubonic plague again.

    That would also tie in with the genetics studies showing that as with those two diseases, northern Europeans may have more resistance to CoV-2. That might be one factor in the differential outcomes.
    Maybe one of these?

    https://www.biospace.com/article/vir...9-coronavirus/

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    I had a pithy response for all of you and the system booted it out... all my work erased.

    Short version... Spruithean you caught me on intubation being an oxygen delivery system. I should have specified a PASSIVE oxygen delivery system. Something tells me you probably caught my drift though.

    Regarding Remdesivir, The Lancet covered TWO recent studies, but nobody mentioned the second one out of China maybe because those findings weren't as positive?. Look I hope Remdesivir does work. I hope CQ works. Who trusts data that comes out of China anyway? Not me.

    I want as many arrows in our collective quiver as possible. What I fear is that we might lose successful options because of "orange man bad" syndrome. The French have had good results with CQ as has parts of Asia. The jury is still out on malaria meds.

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    Also the peroxide breathing treatment I cited may have been what President Trump was trying to reference when he mentioned "disinfecting the lungs", but with our out of control press this all fell through the cracks. Probably on purpose. But word choice is important, especially when you are the leader of the free world. Luckily 46% of the voting public gets what you were trying to put down, Mr. President.

    Spruithean, I did mention three doctors associated with this method (Levy, Shallenberger, and Cheng). I doubt seriously this will be a complete cure, but again we are looking for options here people. We need something else besides lung rupturing ventilators. These machines have a ridiculous morbidity rate. Also, a second person in New York has come forward with a similar story to Sara NP's friend. He attached his name and face to his position though and this is important... no longer anon. whistleblowers but real folks now. I will add his name on an edit because of time crunch sorry.

    _____________________________________
    _____________________________________

    Edit: physician mentioned above is Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell. Has some insightful opinions from the front lines. Worth watching what he is saying about ARDS and high altitude syndrome. I'm a big fan of passive oxygen-- via facemask, plastic bag over my head, couple pipets placed gently under the nose. Don't need a pipeline crammed down my gullet followed by a bouncy balloon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    I had a pithy response for all of you and the system booted it out... all my work erased.

    Short version... Spruithean you caught me on intubation being an oxygen delivery system. I should have specified a PASSIVE oxygen delivery system. Something tells me you probably caught my drift though.

    Regarding Remdesivir, The Lancet covered TWO recent studies, but nobody mentioned the second one out of China maybe because those findings weren't as positive?. Look I hope Remdesivir does work. I hope CQ works. Who trusts data that comes out of China anyway? Not me.

    I want as many arrows in our collective quiver as possible. What I fear is that we might lose successful options because of "orange man bad" syndrome. The French have had good results with CQ as has parts of Asia. The jury is still out on malaria meds.
    Intubation and increased mortality rate seems to be associated with older patients and those with co-morbidities (hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease, etc). I'm skeptical of information coming out of China, and I wait to make conclusions until I've seen it corroborated by other parties. I would agree that we need as many tools as we can find to counter this pandemic, however, we can't put all our eggs in one basket because one person insinuated that it was the ideal medicine. Again, as an outsider, I do not have orange man bad syndrome, I however think he should take responsibility for the things he says and the actions he takes, even if some of his statements were conjecture or "sarcastic" he should be aware that there will be people who misconstrue what he has said and suffer the consequences.


    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    ... But word choice is important, especially when you are the leader of the free world.
    Agree with you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Spruithean, I did mention three doctors associated with this method (Levy, Shallenberger, and Cheng). I doubt seriously this will be a complete cure, but again we are looking for options here people. We need something else besides lung rupturing ventilators. These machines have a ridiculous morbidity rate. Also, a second person in New York has come forward with a similar story to Sara NP's friend. He attached his name and face to his position though and this is important... no longer anon. whistleblowers but real folks now. I will add his name on an edit because of time crunch sorry.
    I've tried to find the specific published material on the matter you referenced, and I can't find anything but blog posts and other websites (none of which are official journals). Like I said before, higher mortality rates with intubation for COVID-19 patients is seemingly associated with the elderly and those with co-morbidities (many of which result in various changes in tissue in the specific systems they are associated with).

    I've seen several discussions from those on the front lines, and those who I know, have discussed the use of a prone position being beneficial for SaO2 levels for many patients, it's less invasive.

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