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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #1626
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    I just watch on tv a proffesor from the Chemistry Engineering of AUTh, (my after Diploma speciality was, on Enviroment, Enviromental technigue and Hydraylic Engineering, and Statistical and apllied Meteorology)
    about Coronavirus quantity on water after waste watertreatment,

    the first who found this are the Dutch,
    Anyway, I will try to communicate with old fellas, just personal interest,

    So, the quantities of virus on water after wastewater treatments are big enough,
    it is certainly a virus that loves sewers,
    and most possible is to be 'mutated' there, or in the production precedure of 'gutter oil'

    The first estimation concerns the city of Thessaloniki, on how many were infected,
    it is very possible that asymptomatics could have been more than we expected,
    I have no further information about analogies etc,

    I started to think sewer waters and fats is coronavirus first 'homeplace'
    after all bats love night, and humidity.

    I am thinking if the Eugeneo village in Italy and its Thalassaemia B is a natural shield against virus,
    I am waiting for a deeper serach about that,

    For aftermath,
    urban sewage network, and especially the closed ones (not rain, but houses one) is the best coronavirus enviroment,
    and a field to estimate the infection of the city, as concerns the asymptomatic ones,
    the study and method will be expand to all wastewater treatment facilities in Greece and islands, for 2 reasons
    1, as a mark of areas that were not infected, or had no confirmed case,
    2, as an indicator for population % infection including asymptomatic ones

    Btw
    I still remember 'the smell' when i was gathering wastewater to estimate and calculate the Escherichia, the Euglena,Deltaprotea, Desulfa etc
    yach, even 2 showers and it was still inside your nose, your cloth smell even after 2 timed washed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    So the masks are from a vendor on Esty,

    https://www.etsy.com/shop/TotallyMel..._shop_redirect
    Thanks, I ordered a few.

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    China has a big but brief chance right now to speed its way to global leadership:

    The Covid-19 pandemic has revealed more clearly than ever before the nature and relentlessness of the ruling Chinese Communist Party’s ambition to place itself at the center of global power and influence.
    What once was an opaque policy, articulated by Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, of “hide your strength, bide your time,” has now morphed into the transparent, if still unstated, approach by President Xi Jinping of “seizing the Covid-19 moment” – before it closes.
    The virus first appeared to be a dramatic setback for China, given its role as the pathogen’s source and epicenter in January and February. With China’s likely emergence now as the first major world economy to end lockdowns and regain growth, Covid-19 now offers a once-in-a-century chance to accelerate the geopolitical shift in Beijing’s favor through 2020 and far beyond.
    That said, Chinese leaders are moving at a pace that reveals not only their ambitions but also their apprehensions that this historic moment could close as quickly as it opened.
    “The party’s leaders believe they have a narrow window of strategic opportunity to strengthen their rule and revise the international order in their favor,” writes Lt. Gen. (ret.) H.R. McMaster, President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, in his just-released book “Battlegrounds: The Fight to Defend the Free World.”
    He sees the party leadership moving at warp speed to “co-opt, coerce and conceal” at home and abroad “before China’s economy sours, before the population grows old, before other countries realize that the party is pursing national rejuvenation at their expense, and before unanticipated events such as the coronavirus pandemic expose” their vulnerabilities.
    At the same time, Beijing is wrestling with the new burdens of global leadership: demands from debtor nations for relief, from developing nations for accountability, from Covid-19 victims for reparations and from the global human rights campaigners for less repression and more transparency.


    God blessed America, but Corona does CCP.

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    "Welcome back to the office. your every move will be watched" BY WSJ


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    Non-surgical masks on sale at woot.com:

    https://tools.woot.com/offers/face-m..._cnt_odet_bs_1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Why are we having outbreaks in meatpacking plants?

    "Meatpacking is dangerous, has cuts, bruises, and abrasions. “Very turbulent air conditions” often prevail, and steam can be present too. One old observational study concluded that workers have higher cancer risk, possibly from contact w animal viruses. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.100"

    I see the government has made them stay open, and I get it; they're afraid of food shortages.

    However, they have to protect these people. They need to be suited up like medical staff if necessary. They can't be sacrificed like this for the rest of us.
    My first thought: What are the temperatures in the meatpacking plants?



    The GAM dose-response curve suggested a negative linear relationship between temperatures and daily cumulative confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the range from 16.8 °C to 27.4 °C. Each 1 °C rise of temperature was associated with a −4.8951% (t = −2.29, p = 0.0226) decrease in the number of daily cumulative confirmed cases of COVID-19. A sensitivity analysis assessed the robustness of the results of the model. The predicted R-squared of the polynomial linear regression model was 0.81053.

    Temperature significantly changes COVID-19 transmission in (sub)tropical cities of Brazil

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    My first thought:
    What are the temperatures?
    I'm no expert, but it seems to run the gamut from hot (steam areas) to freezing. So, I don't know...

    I also heard somewhere that you have to shout to be heard over the noise of the machines and the water.

    If all the rules are hygienically followed, it should be sanitary. The only thing that could be added are good quality masks and shields. Otherwise, one or two positive people could infect a large number.

    " It is also recommended that all rooms where meat is processed, except in the slaughter and cooler storage areas, should be maintained at a temperature of about 12°C. In facilities where no refrigeration or cooling is furnished in processing areas, the handling of meat products is possible if all equipment contacting the products is throughly cleaned and sanitized from time to time (recommended every four hours). Frequent cleaning is necessary because in warmer temperatures bacteria multiply rapidly and the risk of product contamination increases."

    http://www.fao.org/3/t0279e/T0279E02.htm






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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm no expert, but it seems to run the gamut from hot (steam areas) to freezing. So, I don't know...

    I also heard somewhere that you have to shout to be heard over the noise of the machines and the water.

    If all the rules are hygienically followed, it should be sanitary. The only thing that could be added are good quality masks and shields. Otherwise, one or two positive people could infect a large number.

    " It is also recommended that all rooms where meat is processed, except in the slaughter and cooler storage areas, should be maintained at a temperature of about 12°C. In facilities where no refrigeration or cooling is furnished in processing areas, the handling of meat products is possible if all equipment contacting the products is throughly cleaned and sanitized from time to time (recommended every four hours). Frequent cleaning is necessary because in warmer temperatures bacteria multiply rapidly and the risk of product contamination increases."

    http://www.fao.org/3/t0279e/T0279E02.htm




    12 Celsius might be the ideal temperature for spreading. Similar to what Italy and Iran were like climate-wise when this outbreak first kicked in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    12 Celsius might be the ideal temperature for spreading. Similar to what Italy and Iran were like climate-wise when this outbreak first kicked in.
    Oh, this is bad news for me. The climate in my city is Cwb by the Köppen-Geiger climate classification. Here we are in autumn and that was the news in the main newspaper of the city today: ‘Belo Horizonte registered the lower temperature of year at this Monday (4) with 11.6ºC, at Cercadinho Climate Station, in Belvedere neighborhood, in the south-central region of Belo Horizonte. Before that, last Tuesday (28), the thermometers, also in Cercadinho, registered 12.6ºC.


    According to the National Institute of Meteorology (Inmet), the cold should become even more intense with the arrival of a mass of polar air between Wednesday (6) and next Thursday (7), causing rapid rains and plummeting the temperature. In the coming days, new cold records should occur in the capital of Minas Gerais. This Monday (4), the district of 'Monte Verde', Camanducaia City, recorded the lowest temperature in the state, with 4ºC.’

    The virus will like so much to know this.

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    March and April were right in that ballpark for the New York metro area, so there you go.

    Hope you're right and it will be less virulent in the coming warmer months.

    Oh, just heard that in one meat packing plant 58% of the people are CoV-19 positive. Thirty-seven people have died so far.

    They are putting plastic barriers between the people, and stopping them from working side by side in a sort of assembly line, so the production is much slower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Gross, I know, but this is a paper on covid virus concentrations from toilet flushing.

    Supposedly, it can hang around in the air for up to three hours, so anyone entering the bathroom after that might inhale it. I wonder if spread then through the air ducts is possible, which could partly explain some of the spread in ships, apartment buildings, etc., although the paper is focused on hospitals and nursing homes.

    A lot of patients in nursing homes, in particular, are incontinent, and there could be transmission to the staff even more directly than through the toilet flushing.

    When this is more under control they're going to have to totally revamp sanitation procedures in care homes, but even in hospitals. Even hospital staff, who should be even better trained, are lax as hell from my experience in them. After one procedure, well, I won't go into the gory details, but I told the nurses aide not even to think about touching me until she disinfected her hands and then put on sterile gloves. Otherwise, I'd apply the ointment myself, thank you very much. And this was a university teaching hospital.

    As for nursing homes, both the patients and the staff have to be better protected by the staff wearing face masks and gloves if need be when tending to the patients.

    See:
    "Particle concentrations measured before and after the flush were found to be significantly different (0.3–10 μm). Bioaerosol concentrations when flushing fecal waste were found to be significantly greater than background concentrations (p-value = 0.005). However, the bioaerosol concentrations were not different across time (p-value = 0.977) or distance (p-value = 0.911) from the toilet, suggesting that aerosols generated may remain for longer than 30 min post flush. Toilets produce aerosol particles when flushed, with the majority of the particles being 0.3 μm in diameter. The particles aerosolized include microorganisms remaining from previous use or from fecal wastes. Differences in bioaerosol concentrations across conditions also suggest that toilet flushing is a source of bioaerosols that may result in transmission of pathogenic microorganisms.Conclusions

    This study is the first to quantify particles and bioaerosols produced from flushing a hospital toilet during routine patient care. Future studies are needed targeting pathogens associated with gastrointestinal illness and evaluating aerosol exposure reduction interventions."
    https://aricjournal.biomedcentral.co...18-0301-9#Sec9
    Been thinking about this method of transmission for some time. My current jobsite (like most any standard construction site) has no functional plumbing for workers. A huge upgrade though is we now have an ample number of sinks with high flow water and industrial strength hand-cleaners infused with alcohol.

    But a port-a-potty is what is. No matter how careful we all are, escaping the squat pot is not really feasible. I think once one of us on site gets infected, it's off to the races.

    I live in a state where the numbers are growing rapidly. One of the subs (who I worked with daily) is now out because his wife has Covid.

    Am ready for the battle. I sense it is near.

    I can check the box for more co-morbidities than most. Figuring I have a one-in-four chance of checking out. But win or lose, at least I won't have to spray the bottom of my boots with Listerine when I come home after work or squirt the groceries with diluted bleach.

    Bring it Covid. Let's see what you're made of you single stranded bat dweller.
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 06-05-20 at 02:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    I've been thinking about this method of transmission for some time. My current jobsite (and almost all construction sites) has no functional plumbing for workers. A huge upgrade though is we now have an ample number of sinks with high flow water and industrial strength hand-cleaners infused with alcohol.

    But a port-a-potty is what is. No matter how careful we all are, escaping the squat pot is not really feasible. I think once one of us on site gets infected, it's off to the races.

    I'm in a state where the numbers are growing rapidly. One of the subs (who I worked with daily) is out because his wife has Covid.

    Am ready for the battle. I sense it is near.

    I can check the box for more co-morbidities than most. I figure I have a one-in-four chance of checking out. But win or lose, at least I won't have to spray the bottom of my boots with Listerine when I come home after work or squirt the groceries with diluted bleach.

    Bring it Covid. Let's see what you're made of you single stranded bat dweller.
    My dad was a general contractor, and my husband worked for him two summers during college, and so did I once in a while, sitting in the trailer occasionally doing paper work.

    I know it sounds extreme, but try keeping the eating and drinking to a minimum during the day so you don't have to use them very much. That's what I did because I hated the damn things. They used to keep the "fecal matter" ones separate. It makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    12 Celsius might be the ideal temperature for spreading. Similar to what Italy and Iran were like climate-wise when this outbreak first kicked in.
    I know about 14 Celsius,
    the difference is not big,
    truth is that most confirmed 'boom' happened among 7-18 Co daily temperatures

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Oh, this is bad news for me. The climate in my city is Cwb by the Köppen-Geiger climate classification. Here we are in autumn and that was the news in the main newspaper of the city today: ‘Belo Horizonte registered the lower temperature of year at this Monday (4) with 11.6ºC, at Cercadinho Climate Station, in Belvedere neighborhood, in the south-central region of Belo Horizonte. Before that, last Tuesday (28), the thermometers, also in Cercadinho, registered 12.6ºC.


    According to the National Institute of Meteorology (Inmet), the cold should become even more intense with the arrival of a mass of polar air between Wednesday (6) and next Thursday (7), causing rapid rains and plummeting the temperature. In the coming days, new cold records should occur in the capital of Minas Gerais. This Monday (4), the district of 'Monte Verde', Camanducaia City, recorded the lowest temperature in the state, with 4ºC.’

    The virus will like so much to know this.
    The virus does not like the open air. So even if it is 12C or 4C (which is supposedly the best for this virus) if the room is well aired every hour even with some infected person(s) around, other people won't get infected.
    Airing the rooms once an hour is rather a challenge though, especially if it is cool or cold outside.

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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    This article is kind of a no brainer. Of course the virus was spreading around the world before the "confirmed" cases. Which means since Late-November to mid-March, places like NYC had no measures in place to prevent the spread.

    "At the most, 10% of the global population has been exposed to the virus, Balloux estimated."

    Ergo, about 765,000,000 people have been infected.
    There can be no covenants between men and lions

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Thanks, I ordered a few.
    Glad I could help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Been thinking about this method of transmission for some time. My current jobsite (like most any standard construction site) has no functional plumbing for workers. A huge upgrade though is we now have an ample number of sinks with high flow water and industrial strength hand-cleaners infused with alcohol.

    But a port-a-potty is what is. No matter how careful we all are, escaping the squat pot is not really feasible. I think once one of us on site gets infected, it's off to the races.

    I live in a state where the numbers are growing rapidly. One of the subs (who I worked with daily) is now out because his wife has Covid.

    Am ready for the battle. I sense it is near.

    I can check the box for more co-morbidities than most. Figuring I have a one-in-four chance of checking out. But win or lose, at least I won't have to spray the bottom of my boots with Listerine when I come home after work or squirt the groceries with diluted bleach.

    Bring it Covid. Let's see what you're made of you single stranded bat dweller.
    All the best and stay safe! Washing your hands can go a long way, as well as any PPE you might already use. Possibly one of the hardest things is not touching the face, it's really surprising to see how many times we do that in a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    This article is kind of a no brainer. Of course the virus was spreading around the world before the "confirmed" cases. Which means since Late-November to mid-March, places like NYC had no measures in place to prevent the spread.

    "At the most, 10% of the global population has been exposed to the virus, Balloux estimated."

    Ergo, about 765,000,000 people have been infected.
    I recall reading about something similar almost a month ago about the earliest "pneumonia" cases that were spiking in Italy long before Italy was declared a hot-spot. I think the reach of this virus is a lot greater than we currently have data on, hopefully the more information we gather the better equipped we'll be at determining all the features of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    This article is kind of a no brainer. Of course the virus was spreading around the world before the "confirmed" cases. Which means since Late-November to mid-March, places like NYC had no measures in place to prevent the spread.

    "At the most, 10% of the global population has been exposed to the virus, Balloux estimated."

    Ergo, about 765,000,000 people have been infected.
    It may be quite a bit lower than even 10%. Current testing in a hot spot like New York shows an infection level of 10%. The early levels of 40-50% were probably, as we discussed here, because they were testing people with serious symptoms or contacts of such people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    All the best and stay safe! Washing your hands can go a long way, as well as any PPE you might already use. Possibly one of the hardest things is not touching the face, it's really surprising to see how many times we do that in a day.



    I recall reading about something similar almost a month ago about the earliest "pneumonia" cases that were spiking in Italy long before Italy was declared a hot-spot. I think the reach of this virus is a lot greater than we currently have data on, hopefully the more information we gather the better equipped we'll be at determining all the features of it.
    The paper concludes from that...

    "They also found genetic evidence that supports suspicions the virus was infecting people in Europe, the US and elsewhere weeks or even months before the first official cases were reported in January and February. It will be impossible to find the "first" patient in any country, Balloux said."All these ideas about trying to find a Patient Zero are pointless because there are so many patient zeros," he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    The virus does not like the open air. So even if it is 12C or 4C (which is supposedly the best for this virus) if the room is well aired every hour even with some infected person(s) around, other people won't get infected.
    Airing the rooms once an hour is rather a challenge though, especially if it is cool or cold outside.
    Thanks for the explanations and guidance Dagne :)
    For us in Belo Horizonte, a city with a typical Cwb climate, this care will be necessary now in the autumn and, mainly, in the months of June and July, which are usually the coldest months of winter:

    Köppen’s climate classification map for Brazil


    “Cwb climate is observed in only 2.1% of the Brazilian territory (Table 3) and similarly to Cwa, Cwb is a typical climate of southeastern Brazil (Fig. 6). Cwb occurs of central-southern Minas Gerais (26%), and the limit of this climate coincides with the administrative borders of this state with São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Thus, in Minas Gerais, Cwb climate occupies the whole region of Mantiqueira (22°S, > 850 m), Canastra (20°150S, > 900 m) and the Espinhaço (18°500 S, > 950 m) Mountains. The Minas Gerais capital, Belo Horizonte (19°550 S; 43°560W; 855 m), was selected as a typical location with a Cwb climate in Brazil (Fig. 8), to show the evident climatic seasonality in this region, where winter is cold and dry and summer is hot and humid. Regarding Curitiba (Cfa), Belo Horizonte is a bit warmer, with annual mean temperature of 19.3 °C, with a minimum of 15.5 °C in July and a maximum of 21.5 °C in January.
    Many regions of Bahia are classified as Cwb climate. Cwb is mapped in the south-central region where the altitudes are greater than 1,000 m throughout Espinhaço Mountain. Diamantina Plateau also presents Cwb climate, in altitudes above 1,100 m where the annual rainfall is lower than 700 mm, and thus it is the driest Cwb location in Brazil (Fig. 7). On the some landscapes of high altitude in the Borborema Plateau (Pernambuco and Paraíba states), in the hillslopes of altitude above 1,000 m, is the most northerly of the Cwb climate occur- rence in Brazil (7°490 S, Fig. 7).“

    Source: http://www.lerf.eco.br/img/publicaco..._etal_2014.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    The virus does not like the open air. So even if it is 12C or 4C (which is supposedly the best for this virus) if the room is well aired every hour even with some infected person(s) around, other people won't get infected.
    Airing the rooms once an hour is rather a challenge though, especially if it is cool or cold outside.
    I'm interested in more information about that. Do you have a link to a study?

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    Some researchers are working with CRISPR to see if they can create a CoV-2 test which would be self-administered and as fast and cheap as a pregnancy test.

    How long it will take to make and test it and get it out to consumers is anyone's guess.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/h...?smid=tw-share

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    The cold and the COVID-19.

    The Belo Horizonte civil defense has just issued a low temperature alert for the period from 3:00 PM on May 6 until 12:00 PM on May 10. Among the recommendations are the carrying out of physical activities only with warm clothing and to keep windows open for ventilation to avoid the spread of diseases typical of this time of the year.

    They do not mention specifically the COVID-19 virus and the Sars-CoV-2 disease, but it can be inferred in the alert is that this is the biggest concern of city health authorities. I received the alert in a SMS send to my cell phone and I checked its authenticity in the official website of the City Hall:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    The cold and the COVID-19.

    The Belo Horizonte civil defense has just issued a low temperature alert for the period from 3:00 PM on May 6 until 12:00 PM on May 10. Among the recommendations are the carrying out of physical activities only with warm clothing and to keep windows open for ventilation to avoid the spread of diseases typical of this time of the year.

    They do not mention specifically the COVID-19 virus and the Sars-CoV-2 disease, but it can be inferred in the alert is that this is the biggest concern of city health authorities. I received the alert in a SMS send to my cell phone and I checked its authenticity in the official website of the City Hall:

    Do they also advise drinking plenty of hot fluids? (tea, coffee, plain hot water)

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    Do they also advise drinking plenty of hot fluids? (tea, coffee, plain hot water)
    Yes. Is the first line of the alert: ‘Hidrate-se muito bem!’ means ‘Hydrate yourself very well!’

    Cheers.

    PS: In the second line it says to avoid bathing with very hot water, because it dry out the skin even more and, if necessary, you must use a body moisturizer.

    The last line says: Get medical attention in case of breathing problems.

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