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Thread: New Coronavirus in China

  1. #2026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm so sorry. What a heartbreaking story. Is there any news as to when the vaccine will be distributed in your area? I know that there are cancer patients who are being e-mailed that as soon as the vaccine is available they will be called, so obviously there's a list and cancer patients are high up on the list. Fwiw, both Langone and Memorial Sloan Kettering have done it.

    Are you saying he already has it? If he does, couldn't your national health service provide it on humanitarian grounds if nothing else? Or someone could start a fund me campaign to raise money if doses are even available.

    What an awful mess.

    I've just been so angry about the lost and wasted lives, the human suffering both from the disease itself, the psychological effect of the isolation, and the tanking of the economy, and most of all that those ultimately responsible, like China and organizations like the WHO, with whom Fauci originally concurred by the way, pay no price for it.

    This is what left wing wokedom leads to...

    "Amazing that on Feb 13, The Lancet publishes an article from 16 global health law scholars AGAINST TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS (because is may be xenophobic). The WHO was also opposed to travel restrictions. This kind of thinking is deadly."

    Xenophobic be damned. If an unknown virus is loose, close all your borders immediately. Oh, and as I advised when the WHO and Fauci and Berks or whoever she is said it was inadvisable, wear MASKS. Use some goddamn common sense.

    Damn it, is the world full of fools with no ability to think rationally and pragmatically and put aside all their b.s. ideology of any kind??? Or is it even worse? Do ideologues of both the left and the right put politics above human suffering? I get so angry I have to turn off the tv for fear my already high blood pressure (a family curse) will shoot up so high I'll have a heart attack. :) The medications can only do so much.

    14 Dec starts Vaccination.
    Primary is Doctors and Nurses and GraveDiggers (Dec)
    Second is Police and Army and coast Guard (Jan)
    Then all Problematic
    My place is around March 14 to 29 March, and maybe I deny it, Idk,


    Anyway,

    I said about the New Global conspiracy.
    And you know and remember when we were repeating that Antiseptics work better than masks
    and other discussions,
    But the event that Science and state could prevail Deaths especially of Doctors and Nurses who treat COVID patients
    but prefer to save Politicians, I thin is trully a subject of 'Global Conspiracy.

    if every state started to produce its own monoclonal antibodies, and use them.
    We would save many gentle Human souls, MANY.

    I think that in future, Humans will make a film, a reality,
    the movie will Providing from TV that antiseptic are more efficient then masks,
    that treatment existed, for months but only for politicians,
    With the Verdict to Death of those who treat Covid patients, by Covid.

    We live That 'conspiracy' now
    And at least I, if not we, Know that it was truth,

    But, If a policeman shoots or use violance,
    We all make riots, and burn cities,
    If an illegal immigrant is drown, we make riots and public speaches,
    if oil prices raise, we yell,
    But if a doctor dies fighting Covid, and we know he could be saved,
    we all stay at homes, blaiming our missery.

    Yes China beat West Civilization,
    for 1 Year we do it as china did,
    after1 year, a surely neededtime, we found Vaccine,
    But in the middletime, we had Monoclonal antibodies,
    But we use them, to save politicians, religious leaders, and etc.

    we just seen in reality, with our own eyes, a modern 'maze runner' episode in our world.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #2027
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    I can tell you that they are extremely difficult to produce, and extraordinarily expensive, as I happen to take one. Without insurance, the cost of mine is 12,000 a month. The reason is that the company who invented it spent hundreds of millions doing so, and they're allowed to recoup their costs.

    The patent on mine expired a couple of years ago, but the company has the government tied up in court to prevent that expiration. Even if other companies could get the "formula", it would still be very expensive to produce and thus still expensive to purchase, although not 12,000. My husband will have to keep working until he's 80 at this rate, just to keep the insurance. Medicare, our "senior" public health care system, would make me pay 7,000 a month, which is impossible.

    I'm not sure of this, but I've been told that in some European countries the state health systems just don't make it available period because it's too expensive. I'd love to know more about that aspect of it.

    Perhaps to salve their conscience, the company "says" that arrangements can be made for those who absolutely can't pay.

    The monoclonal antibody for Covid is a different one and highly toxic in terms of side effects. That's part of the reason the use is restricted. Perhaps because of that there are a lot of criteria which have to be met.

    https://www.idstewardship.com/5-thin...-bamlanivimab/

    Making vaccines, although very expensive, is less expensive than making these and they are less toxic. There's also the advantage that if people don't get Covid the hospitals won't collapse.

    I'm afraid you've got it wrong here.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #2028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I can tell you that they are extremely difficult to produce, and extraordinarily expensive, as I happen to take one. Without insurance, the cost of mine is 12,000 a month. The reason is that the company who invented it spent hundreds of millions doing so, and they're allowed to recoup their costs.

    The patent on mine expired a couple of years ago, but the company has the government tied up in court to prevent that expiration. Even if other companies could get the "formula", it would still be very expensive to produce and thus still expensive to purchase, although not 12,000. My husband will have to keep working until he's 80 at this rate, just to keep the insurance. Medicare, our "senior" public health care system, would make me pay 7,000 a month, which is impossible.

    I'm not sure of this, but I've been told that in some European countries the state health systems just don't make it available period because it's too expensive. I'd love to know more about that aspect of it.

    Perhaps to salve their conscience, the company "says" that arrangements can be made for those who absolutely can't pay.

    The monoclonal antibody for Covid is a different one and highly toxic in terms of side effects. That's part of the reason the use is restricted. Perhaps because of that there are a lot of criteria which have to be met.

    https://www.idstewardship.com/5-thin...-bamlanivimab/

    Making vaccines, although very expensive, is less expensive than making these and they are less toxic. There's also the advantage that if people don't get Covid the hospitals won't collapse.

    I'm afraid you've got it wrong here.
    most monoclonal antobodies are treated with anti-alleric ones,
    usually cortizones and titanium dioxode.

  4. #2029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    most monoclonal antobodies are treated with anti-alleric ones,
    usually cortizones and titanium dioxode.
    Interesting you mention cortisone. Steroids relieve absolutely every symptom I have; they virtually disappear. I know because early in my treatment my doctors gave me a 14 day pack when it was absolutely essential that I travel, and my symptoms were not yet under control at all.

    I called my doctor on day 2 and he said "You don't need to tell me. I know. It's completely gone. You feel wonderful. It's a miracle. Problem is that if you took this at these dosages every day it would kill you." So that's where monoclonal antibodies come in. Which, by the way, are never a 100% fix, and to which your body can become accustomed, so they stop working.

    Nothing is as simple as it seems in medicine.

  5. #2030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting you mention cortisone. Steroids relieve absolutely every symptom I have; they virtually disappear. I know because early in my treatment my doctors gave me a 14 day pack when it was absolutely essential that I travel, and my symptoms were not yet under control at all.

    I called my doctor on day 2 and he said "You don't need to tell me. I know. It's completely gone. You feel wonderful. It's a miracle. Problem is that if you took this at these dosages every day it would kill you." So that's where monoclonal antibodies come in. Which, by the way, are never a 100% fix, and to which your body can become accustomed, so they stop working.

    Nothing is as simple as it seems in medicine.
    So to make an aftermath,

    You agree that plural majority of countries and medicine industries, left monoclonal antibodies out of (at least temporary) cure for 4,5 months,
    No matter the death toll cost of hospiatl-medicine personel, in the name of the economical cost of a monoclonal antibody injection dose?

    or you agree with me saying that we could save many many Covid-fighters and patients these 4,5 months?
    and cost would be less if all countries made their own antibody 'production' and idea was pushed,

    I do not say monoclonal antibodies is the cure for Covid,
    I just say it could save many many people.

  6. #2031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    So to make an aftermath,

    You agree that plural majority of countries and medicine industries, left monoclonal antibodies out of (at least temporary) cure for 4,5 months,
    No matter the death toll cost of hospiatl-medicine personel, in the name of the economical cost of a monoclonal antibody injection dose?

    or you agree with me saying that we could save many many Covid-fighters and patients these 4,5 months?
    and cost would be less if all countries made their own antibody 'production' and idea was pushed,

    I do not say monoclonal antibodies is the cure for Covid,
    I just say it could save many many people.
    I honestly don't have the data to know if your first option is correct. I know that the monoclonal antibody was used here in the U.S. because I personally know people who got it, but you had to meet certain criteria because of the side effects, i.e. you had to have been in reasonably good health before infection, and you couldn't get it if you were intubated, because to be honest once you needed intubation there was no hope for you; your lungs were too destroyed. Almost all of the people who were intubated died, if I remember correctly.

    They knew so little about how to treat this illness in the beginning. For example, we know that obese people are particularly prone to severe symptoms. They've discovered that placing them in certain ways and moving them periodically helps them breathe better, and thus have better outcomes.

    So, bottom line, I don't know how many, if any, Americans were denied monoclonal antibodies who could have benefited from them. Even more so, I have no data from other countries.

    You're mistaken, however, if you think all those who died could have been saved if they'd been given them. It could have helped only a percentage of them, and as I say, I don't know how many were denied it in different countries because of unavailability.

    So, purely on the basis of give everything you've got to what will help the most people, the vaccine was the way to go.

    It's also always the least dangerous, although from reports today from Britain, do not take the Pfizer version if you've ever gone into anaphylactic shock from some substance. In other words, if you walk around with an epi pen, this isn't for you.

  7. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I honestly don't have the data to know if your first option is correct. I know that the monoclonal antibody was used here in the U.S. because I personally know people who got it, but you had to meet certain criteria because of the side effects, i.e. you had to have been in reasonably good health before infection, and you couldn't get it if you were intubated, because to be honest once you needed intubation there was no hope for you; your lungs were too destroyed. Almost all of the people who were intubated died, if I remember correctly.

    They knew so little about how to treat this illness in the beginning. For example, we know that obese people are particularly prone to severe symptoms. They've discovered that placing them in certain ways and moving them periodically helps them breathe better, and thus have better outcomes.

    So, bottom line, I don't know how many, if any, Americans were denied monoclonal antibodies who could have benefited from them. Even more so, I have no data from other countries.

    You're mistaken, however, if you think all those who died could have been saved if they'd been given them. It could have helped only a percentage of them, and as I say, I don't know how many were denied it in different countries because of unavailability.

    So, purely on the basis of give everything you've got to what will help the most people, the vaccine was the way to go.

    It's also always the least dangerous, although from reports today from Britain, do not take the Pfizer version if you've ever gone into anaphylactic shock from some substance. In other words, if you walk around with an epi pen, this isn't for you.

    Until second half of March, which is my days to get vaccinated, surely we know more.

  8. #2033
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    If China thinks anyone will believe this, they're living in la la land.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-p...bshare_twitter

  9. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If China thinks anyone will believe this, they're living in la la land.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-p...bshare_twitter
    Another big lie from the Chinese. They were responsible for the spread of a deadly virus across the planet that takes thousands of lives every day and that threw the planet's economy into an endless abyss. The virus spread by the Chinese also had the unexpected help of some inept rulers in other countries to spread out without control.

  10. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Another big lie from the Chinese. They were responsible for the spread of a deadly virus across the planet that takes thousands of lives every day and that threw the planet's economy into an endless abyss. The virus spread by the Chinese also had the unexpected help of some inept rulers in other countries to spread out without control.
    I completely agree. They have to be held accountable.

    Some countries handled it better than others, but many did not, including in Europe. Look at the mess there now, in Britain, Germany, Belgium etc. Of the western countries, only Australia and New Zealand got a grip on it and they're both islands which closed their borders immediately. Taiwan is the same.

    I will never believe anything the WHO says ever again. They told countries NOT to close down international flights or national borders, and so did a lot of prominent politicians, both in the U.S. (including Biden and DiBlasio and Pelosi) and Italy, my other homeland, because it was "xenophobic". Screw that if something like this should ever happen again, which I think we should consider more than possible.

    The idiot WHO also said not to wear masks.

    Thank God the Case Fatality Rate is only 1%. Just imagine the world if another one escapes from some Chinese lab with a 25% or higher fatality rate?

    Another paper I saw: East Asians and Southeast Asians "may" have more innate immunity due to prior exposure long ago. Of course, the fact that places like Taiwan and Japan immediately closed their borders and are mask wearing cultures helped.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/scienti...19-11607166230

  11. #2036
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    See:

    How your genes can make Covid more deadly

    "Harry de Quetteville meets the team unravelling the mysteries of virus’s differing severity"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-f...-covid-deadly/

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The genes variants least wanted
    OAS1,2,3
    Role: Preventing viral reproduction
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 63pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.3x

    IFNAR2
    Role:
    Preventing viral reproduction
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 28 pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.3x

    TYK2
    Role:
    
Immune response/lung inflammation
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 5pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.6x

    DPP9
    Role:
    Immune response/lung inflammation
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 32pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.4x

    After looking at the data from Edinburgh, for example, researchers with a project called the Covid-19 Host Genetics Initiative have identified another gene, FOXP4, thought to play a role in lung cancer, which may also exacerbate Covid.
    Studying their DNA, 23&Me pinpointed a marker in the ABO gene, which determines blood type. “People with type O had about a 10 to 20 per cent reduction in risk of infection,” says Shelton. That finding was backed up by the work of Baillie’s group, which further indicated that the ABO gene variant “may be associated with susceptibility to Covid-19, but not critical illness.”

    What is critical is that researchers understand the processes by which Covid attacks and kills us. They can then think about how to stop those attacks – with new medicines but, more importantly, existing medicines like one for arthritis called baricitinib, which may help to solve the TYK2 problem. Understanding genetic pathways of disease helps doctors and drug companies zero in on the right targets. Drugs identified in this way “are twice as likely to succeed”, says Shelton."

    They're all in 23andme but there are lots of variants. I don't the precise ones to check or which letter is the good one.
    Last edited by Angela; 14-12-20 at 18:56.

  13. #2038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The genes variants least wanted
    OAS1,2,3
    Role: Preventing viral reproduction
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 63pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.3x

    IFNAR2
    Role:
    Preventing viral reproduction
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 28 pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.3x

    TYK2
    Role:
    
Immune response/lung inflammation
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 5pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.6x

    DPP9
    Role:
    Immune response/lung inflammation
    How many of us have the disease-related variant? 32pc
    Increased risk of severe disease: 1.4x

    After looking at the data from Edinburgh, for example, researchers with a project called the Covid-19 Host Genetics Initiative have identified another gene, FOXP4, thought to play a role in lung cancer, which may also exacerbate Covid.
    Studying their DNA, 23&Me pinpointed a marker in the ABO gene, which determines blood type. “People with type O had about a 10 to 20 per cent reduction in risk of infection,” says Shelton. That finding was backed up by the work of Baillie’s group, which further indicated that the ABO gene variant “may be associated with susceptibility to Covid-19, but not critical illness.”

    What is critical is that researchers understand the processes by which Covid attacks and kills us. They can then think about how to stop those attacks – with new medicines but, more importantly, existing medicines like one for arthritis called baricitinib, which may help to solve the TYK2 problem. Understanding genetic pathways of disease helps doctors and drug companies zero in on the right targets. Drugs identified in this way “are twice as likely to succeed”, says Shelton."

    They're all in 23andme but there are lots of variants. I don't the precise ones to check or which letter is the good one.
    This is the preprint, I guess:
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.20200048v2

    Supplementary material:
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medr...20200048-1.pdf

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Once the vaccine is available to me, I will receive it ASAP. The amount of ignorance circulating about the vaccine is troublesome. Some people think the vaccine was rushed, it was not. Operation "Warp Speed" is actually a terrible name for it, because it gives the impression as though it was rushed. What they did was develop each stage of the vaccine parallel to each other. Rather than step-by-step, which is how it is normally done. Moreover, they are not actually injecting you with an attenuated form of the virus. They are using a new method, where they use material that is similar to the virus, but not actually Covid-19. Also, allergic reactions are bound to happen, they are a small sub-set of people. I myself am allergic to penicillin. Of course, people who are allergic to it, will have to wait for an alternative. But it should not inhibit people that are perfectly able to take it.

    Anyone that is able to take the vaccine, and refuses, without any legitimate reason, is holding us back. Employers should make it mandatory, especially in professions where you have to directly engage people, (i.e. food service, supermarkets, hospitals, schools, etc.) Certain vaccines are already mandatory to attend school. Yeah, you can have the option to not take it, but you should be barred from contaminating others as well. I guess you have to hit people where it hurts, in order for them to comply. The pocket.

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    As soon as it is available for my risk group I will take it. My mask wearing, avoiding indoor places as much as I can and social distancing will continue until sufficient people have been vaccinated. I am assuming that employers can dictate vaccinations for their workers and I am assuming that at some point airlines and cruise ships will require them for their passengers. I'm also assuming that countries will require them for travel.

  16. #2041
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    Until there is more definitive information, I think the U.S. should follow the lead of some of the European countries and block travel to and from Great Britain, especially in light of the fact British scientists are saying the new mutation is more easily transmissible. Some American scientists are saying they see no sign of it, so the jury is still out.

    I hope to hell the vaccines still work against it.

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    I expected somthing from them

    a new alternative cure for ativirus is found at AUTh,
    but very expencive till now,
    they order new 'start reactors' for a massive production of method,
    It is based on shelf blood cells, T lempho
    the labs and the research clinic were created that Dr Fessas and Dr Anagnostopoulos Known for their achievements on blood and mellow diseases,

    it is much efficient than monoclonal antobodies.

    the typical problem, the eternal problem of 'dreamer philoshopher', the money for the maccines,
    a cost very low, 2 hundres thousand Euros, will decrease the cost of cure to 1/10.

    Method is tested on more than Student statistics samples,

  18. #2043
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    To Continue the above,

    they finally found themoney for the machines that are need for a cure
    a cure, which in case of tranplantation and some blood and mellow disease cases is unigue,
    They have find the specialized T lempho (kyttaro, cellule),
    they take from patient, they multiply them to high numbers, and they import them back (person's own cells)
    that has no allergies and is safer than monoclonal antibodies,

    This cure of coronavirus is also for 'healthy people' but mainly will help those who can not vaccinated,
    Especially people with blood and bone's myelic problems and the ones who had been tranplantated.

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    I should be able to obtain my vaccine by mid-January-February due to my profession, thankfully! However, I will not feel content until the rest of my family has received it.

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    More Than 1.9 Million People in the U.S. Have Gotten a Covid-19 Vaccine - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

    This is an interactive map that shows the amount of people who have been vaccinated in the United States.

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    I want to see the name and the face of the person responsible for this!

    This person should be charged with the equivalency of terrorism.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/12/31/95253...-vaccine-doses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I want to see the name and the face of the person responsible for this!

    This person should be charged with the equivalency of terrorism.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/12/31/95253...-vaccine-doses


    Steven Brandenburg, 46

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...on/4098837001/

  23. #2048
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: USA - New York



    What possible motivation could he have had? This one stumps me, and I've seen people do horrible things.

  24. #2049

  25. #2050
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
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    New York City
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
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    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What possible motivation could he have had? This one stumps me, and I've seen people do horrible things.
    I'm not sure, but I guess they will need to be more stringent in vetting who will be handling these vaccines. He must be a real wack job to do something like that.

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