Health New Coronavirus in China

Yetos: The USA is a Country. The EU is not a country and what we saw when early on when Italy starting having problems is all the major EU countries did not quickly close their airports, even when Italy did (restricting travel from China). Border checks were not in place, so returning Chinese celebrating the Chinese new year, celebrations that were in full force in January in anticipation of the Chinese New year which began on 25 January, could fly to France, or Holland, or Germany and catch a train back to Italy. Once the proverbial crap hit the fan in Italy, what did France and Germany do. Restrict any medical supplies, medical equipment, from being shipped to Italy. Border checks were put in place to prevent the shipment of such goods. So while Italy was hit with this, other EU countries had time to stock up supplies, equipment and prepare hospitals before the crap hit the fan in there countries. So what did being in the EU matter to Italy?

why should this be the EU's fault? Italy could have closed their borders towards european countries anytime. they didn't. and those borders were open for a very long time in both directions. even now they are only partially closed.
 
Yetos: The USA is a Country. The EU is not a country and what we saw when early on when Italy starting having problems is all the major EU countries did not quickly close their airports, even when Italy did (restricting travel from China). Border checks were not in place, so returning Chinese celebrating the Chinese new year, celebrations that were in full force in January in anticipation of the Chinese New year which began on 25 January, could fly to France, or Holland, or Germany and catch a train back to Italy. Once the proverbial crap hit the fan in Italy, what did France and Germany do. Restrict any medical supplies, medical equipment, from being shipped to Italy. Border checks were put in place to prevent the shipment of such goods. So while Italy was hit with this, other EU countries had time to stock up supplies, equipment and prepare hospitals before the crap hit the fan in there countries. So what did being in the EU matter to Italy?

So Italians revolting against the EU is not comparable to a US State revolting against the USA. The EU is just a "whatever it is now" between member countries.

Like I said, I hope Italy leaves the EU. That is my hope. For the USA, I voted for Trump in 2016 and will vote for him again. He was 100% correct in 2016 that 1) Borders matter, and you better have strong security measures on knowing who is coming in and out and be able to protect your border when you need to (which btw, is exactly what Mr. Macron and Ms. Merkel did once they saw how Bad Italy was being hit), 2) Trump in 2016 has been consistently talking about the USA being to dependent on China for too much stuff and that hurts the Economic and National security of the USA, and now we know, Health Security

Whatever happens, I hope this causes a rethinking of the Supply Chain of goods as it relates to the USA (people from other countries can vote for leaders in your own country to deal with these issues going forward) and now the majority of this Country will wake up to having Border security and an orderly system that processes immigrants into this Country. As I pointed out to some friends of mine, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, resulting the next day the USA entering WW2, FDR could sit in Washington DC and look across the USA and everything this country needed to equip what would be 16 Million servicemen was able to be produced right in the USA. Today, this country can't produce enough medical equipment, supplies to deal with this and 80% of the Pharmaceuticals that this country needs come from Communist China. That is while I want say Criminal, is as far beyond Stupid as one can go, i.e. eternally stupid.


No Excuse,
like vultures we both discuss politics,
and yes Italy has the right to exit Union,
as also NY to exit has the right to exit Union or federal, even revolt,

But it is not the correct timing,
First see what your country does, booming after 2 months of Coronavirus existance Information,
and then advice Italians or Spanish etc to exit.
when Coronavirus pass we have both time to discuss about it,
and finally it is the residents of Italy who decide,
Not Greeks, not Francais, not Americans,

politics in EU have nothing to do with USA,
Italian goverment could close boarder, and be prepaired earlier,
and yes we could say was Surprised, cause enter through Alps, and not from China,
and Italians achive the unique, to erase coronavirus from some areas,
But What about USA?
booming 2 months after Wuhan? one month after Italy? :unsure:

the judgement of everybody's sin or faults is after the battle,
Only you do now is harming your beloved Italy and bring Panic to them.
Italians now need other voices and help, to strength their will and courage.
Than my or your political advise
After the battle we make desissions about who's sin or mistake,
and desicions we will be by Italian people who suffered in Italy.
 
Dr. Fauci predicts that there will only be 200,000 deaths in the United States:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...llions-trump-considers-guidelines/2935804001/

This is 2 million less than the original model proposed by Neil Ferguson, who had it at 2.2 million.

Who knows if there will be even less, hopefully.

Yes, but what would the numbers have been like without all of this "social distancing"?

Interview with Dr. Fauci (a doctor doing the interview, thank God, not these moron reporters).

 
Yes, but what would the numbers have been like without all of this "social distancing"?

Interview with Dr. Fauci (a doctor doing the interview, thank God, not these moron reporters).


Consider though, that the virus started in mid-November. Theoretically, it could have reached places like NYC, within the same day, or week. This leads me to speculate that the vast majority of cases were probably asymptomatic. Prior to this, many cases could have been misdiagnosed as a flu, or allergies. At any rate, I do in fact think it is important to practice social distancing, as I myself have been doing.
 
why should this be the EU's fault? Italy could have closed their borders towards european countries anytime. they didn't. and those borders were open for a very long time in both directions. even now they are only partially closed.

I assume you are pro EU. That is fine. As for why Italy did not close its borders more quickly and shut down air travel from China quickly. Lots of reasons I can think of, 1) Disinformation coming from China as recently as 15 January, when the WHO (extension of the UN) reported that Chinese Government officials are telling the WHO that there is no evidence of human to human transmission (which was a lie on the Chinese part and shows either complicit behavior by the WHO or stupidity on their part, which from my perspective are observational equivalents). 2) So if Italy would have early on stopped Chinese workers, students, tourist from entering Italy at that time, what would have been the statements from the EU leaders in Brussels? I think I know because I am well aware when Italy cracked down on illegal migrants a few years back, what the EU PR machine did. So absent a medical crisis like this, does Italy under EU rules have the ability to close its borders and impose border checks? I honestly don't know.

I never said the COVID 19 virus was the EU's fault, it is the Chinese Governments fault, and what they allow to happen with these "wet markets.". As I noted above, they were even as of 15 January being untruthful about it and the WHO was, well I already stated. The response to the situation was/is what I am being critical about with respect to the EU.
 
Last edited:
why should this be the EU's fault? Italy could have closed their borders towards european countries anytime. they didn't. and those borders were open for a very long time in both directions. even now they are only partially closed.


You talk as if we created the virus or it first occurred there. China knew about it, whether it occurred naturally or escaped from the bio-weapons lab in Wuhan in late November. In December doctors who were warning about it were punished, researchers who were investigating it and knew it could be spread from person to person were told to destroy their research. On January 10th they announced they had isolated it, but as LATE as JANUARY 25th they were saying it couldn't spread from human to human, which they knew wasn't true. The documentation is upthread.

Only at the end of January did they try to close down Wuhan. Italy closed its borders to China on January 30th, and so did the U.S.A. When did the rest of the EU countries do the same?

Anyway, it was already too late by the time China announced what they had on their hands. SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE HAD LEFT WUHAN IN THE INTERVENING TIME. The first case on the west coast of the U.S. was already here by January 10th. Italy gets a LOT of tourists from China. It was ALREADY in ITALY by the time China admitted there was human to human transmission.

As to traffic within the EU:

Maybe if Italy had closed its borders with Germany right away the Jinjiang strain wouldn't have gotten into Italy. Let's be honest. Why would they look for danger from that direction? It didn't occur to them that a businesswoman from Jinjiang who later got ill with the virus and also infected half of the Germans with whom she came into contact, might prove dangerous to Lombardia because one contact was missed or broke quarantine. Maybe it entered a separate way. Does it matter?

There are a few strains in Northern Europe right now, one from an Austrian ski resort which kept open into March although they knew people in the town were ill. Why don't you go and ask Austria why they left their borders open with Germany, or Germany with Austria? The East Asian nations are quarantining any of their nationals who come back from Europe for fear of reinfection. Why didn't the EU countries do that when their nationals living in Italy went home once the lockdown was announced? Was Italy supposed to keep them in Italy at gunpoint?

Or maybe you should ask the WHO why, during all that time, they didn't advise travel restrictions, not even against China.

Do I have to keep repeating this over and over? People are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.

Plus, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAJOR POINT. What does the EU mean? If it doesn't mean that member states facing the first wave of a common emergency can get help from other member states, at least in terms of PPE, ventilators etc., if it's each country for itself, then screw the EU.

Get out just like Britain did. It was the best thing Britain's done in a long time. All they want you for is to serve as markets.
 
I assume you are pro EU. That is fine. As for why Italy did not close its borders more quickly and shut down air travel from China quickly. Lots of reasons I can think of, 1) Disinformation coming from China as recently as 15 January, when the WTO (extension of the UN) reported that Chinese Government officials are telling the WTO that there is no evidence of human to human transmission (which was a lie on the Chinese part and shows either complicit behavior by the WTO or stupidity on their part, which from my perspective are observational equivalents). 2) So if Italy would have early on stopped Chinese workers, students, tourist from entering Italy at that time, what would have been the statements from the EU leaders in Brussels? I think I know because I am well aware when Italy cracked down on illegal migrants a few years back, what the EU PR machine did. So absent a medical crisis like this, does Italy under EU rules have the ability to close its borders and impose border checks? I honestly don't know.

I never said the COVID 19 virus was the EU's fault, it is the Chinese Governments fault, and what they allow to happen with these "wet markets.". As I noted above, they were even as of 15 January being untruthful about it and the WTO was, well I already stated. The response to the situation was/is what I am being critical about with respect to the EU.

now we both step a more normal path,
It could be also a political mistake,
a backdoor not predicted,
Surely Ialy was surprised,
Coronavirus to Italy did not enter from China,
but from Alpine Skier resorts,

No, I am not a pro EU,
this EU is not the EU I want,
But the old EC before 1990's,
Yet the Idea is the same.
 
Yetos: With respect to the USA and secession, after the Civil War (1861-1865), the US Supreme Court in Texas vs. White (1869) ruled no US State can on there own leave the USA. That begs the question, how could States leave the USA. Well, one option would be Revolution, which no rational person wants to happen. And Defacto that is really going back to the Civil War Secession idea. The only legal option would be I guess is if State petitioned to leave and a required number of other States approved the Secession. Problem is nobody knows what that looks like as it has never been tried. So NY hypothetically unilaterally leaving the Union on its own would be a direct attack on the US Constitution and would constitute a legal insurrection, which is the same thing 11 Southern States did in 1861, Unilaterally left.
 
FFS, the U.S. federal government has not abandoned New York to its own devices. Stop comparing apples to oranges.
 
now we both step a more normal path,
It could be also a political mistake,
a backdoor not predicted,
Surely Ialy was surprised,
Coronavirus to Italy did not enter from China,
but from Alpine Skier resorts,

No, I am not a pro EU,
this EU is not the EU I want,
But the old EC before 1990's,
Yet the Idea is the same.

Yetos, the virus did come from China. The first person in Italy to test positive was a 38 year old Italian man who came into contact with someone returning from China. Now, typical of the American left wing press, they don't tell us who this guy is that infected the 38 year old Italian man. But to their credit, the clearly say he came back from Wuhan, China on 21 January, which btw was the same time that the first person in USA tested positive. So I go back to the time around 15 January, The Chinese Communist Government new that human to human transmission was real. At that same time, the WHO, which is branch of the UN, sent out a report communicating that the Chinese Government told them no human to human transmission is possible. So after this is over, President Trump needs to investigate why did the WHO put out information to cover for China. I have my theories, 1) the WHO is your typical Globalist open border organization, like the UN who it falls under, 2) China has lots of investments in countries that are developing and the WHO does not want to cross them

https://apnews.com/3ff698881c3cf741f0762a9d5c76031a
 
I assume you are pro EU. That is fine. As for why Italy did not close its borders more quickly and shut down air travel from China quickly. Lots of reasons I can think of, 1) Disinformation coming from China as recently as 15 January, when the WTO (extension of the UN) reported that Chinese Government officials are telling the WTO that there is no evidence of human to human transmission (which was a lie on the Chinese part and shows either complicit behavior by the WTO or stupidity on their part, which from my perspective are observational equivalents). 2) So if Italy would have early on stopped Chinese workers, students, tourist from entering Italy at that time, what would have been the statements from the EU leaders in Brussels? I think I know because I am well aware when Italy cracked down on illegal migrants a few years back, what the EU PR machine did. So absent a medical crisis like this, does Italy under EU rules have the ability to close its borders and impose border checks? I honestly don't know.

I never said the COVID 19 virus was the EU's fault, it is the Chinese Governments fault, and what they allow to happen with these "wet markets.". As I noted above, they were even as of 15 January being untruthful about it and the WTO was, well I already stated. The response to the situation was/is what I am being critical about with respect to the EU.

no, i mean that noone forces Italy to hold the borders towards europe open. it is their decision. they can close them if there is a good reason. and i think if Italy said we want to close them because you others still allow people from china inside it would have been possible.
and it goes both ways many countries in europe did not want to close their borders towards Italy but they could have if they wanted to do so. i guess for many it just doesn't work because the economic connection is too strong.

if there was no EU nothing would be different in this regard. every country would have decided for themselves whether they will shut down travel from china or other countries. like it was the case now.
 
The shock in the routine of large Brazilian cities, in quarantine by the coronavirus. High-traffic regions completely empty. Source: El País/Brasil - today- 6:30PM - Time of Brasília.

Downtown São Paulo (21 242 939 inhabitants):
CBYscOr.jpg


Downtown Rio de Janeiro (12 330 186 inhabitants):
cqoHJeS.jpg


Downtown Belo Horizonte (5 873 841 inhabitants):
4BfZYZJ.jpg
 
FFS, the U.S. federal government has not abandoned New York to its own devices. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

for now,

USA booming is at start, lets see after,
when number get astronomical,
and Italy and EU have the excuse since boom it is 1 month after Wuhan
But in USA is 2 months after Wuhan and 1 after Europe,
lets see USA stats and then we talk again,

Notice that USA today knows about the 4 medicines
Remdesivir
Plaquenil (cloroquine)
Zithromax
in Greece now we use Colchicine with Very good results specially at second phase, with very good results,
 
Yetos, the virus did come from China. The first person in Italy to test positive was a 38 year old Italian man who came into contact with someone returning from China. Now, typical of the American left wing press, they don't tell us who this guy is that infected the 38 year old Italian man. But to their credit, the clearly say he came back from Wuhan, China on 21 January, which btw was the same time that the first person in USA tested positive. So I go back to the time around 15 January, The Chinese Communist Government new that human to human transmission was real. At that same time, the WHO, which is branch of the UN, sent out a report communicating that the Chinese Government told them no human to human transmission is possible. So after this is over, President Trump needs to investigate why did the WHO put out information to cover for China. I have my theories, 1) the WHO is your typical Globalist open border organization, like the UN who it falls under, 2) China has lots of investments in countries that are developing and the WHO does not want to cross them

https://apnews.com/3ff698881c3cf741f0762a9d5c76031a

search WEBASTO corporation,
Infected Deutschland Italy.

China is Quilty anyway,
only when force the poor doctor to sign that he was mistaken is enough,
As we also never know what really happened there, the numbers could be fake,
etc etc,

but right now I do not know if it wise to judge her,
time will come for this also,

THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN HIDE UNDER THE SUN as we say in Greece,
τιποτα δεν μπορει να κρυφτει κατω απο τον ηλιο.
 
for now,

USA booming is at start, lets see after,
when number get astronomical,
and Italy and EU have the excuse since boom it is 1 month after Wuhan
But in USA is 2 months after Wuhan and 1 after Europe,
lets see USA stats and then we talk again,

Notice that USA today knows about the 4 medicines
Remdesivir
Plaquenil (cloroquine)
Zithromax
in Greece now we use Colchicine with Very good results specially at second phase, with very good results,

If you bothered to listen to the links I provided instead of always analyzing through your reflexive anti-Americanism, you would know that randomized control trials of Plaquenil, Plaquenil with Zithromax, Remdesivir and others are all being conducted in the U.S. as we speak. Governor Cuomo has been talking about them every freaking day and how he is personally following the progress of the trials.

Unless someone is on a ventilator and has only a day to live, to give patients untested drugs, by which I mean drugs which have NOT gone through "randomized control trials", is irresponsible, bordering on malpractice. It could make someone with mild symptoms worse; we just don't know yet.

It's like the vaccine. There are a number already in trials. YOU CAN'T RUSH THE SCIENCE when it comes to vaccines.

Left one out: plasma transfusions, and probably others.

Btw, all the mommy and me New Age anti-vaxxers have gone strangely silent, haven't they?
 
IT IS NOT WISE TO APPLY LYNCH LAW NOW

neither to EU
Neither to Italy
Neither to China,
neither USA
neither to politicians,

Right now we must follow the safety orders given to us
and protect us primary and those who we love.
and those who can, give a bottle of blood,
someone at this war may need it.
 
If you bothered to listen to the links I provided unstead of always analyzing through your reflexive anti-Americanism, you would know that randomized control trials of Plaquenil, Plaquenil with Zithromax, Remdesivir and others are all being conducted in the U.S. as we speak. Governor Cuomo has been talking about them every freaking day and how he is personally following the progress of the trials.

Unless someone is on a ventilator and has only a day to live, to give patients untested drugs, by which I mean drugs which have NOT gone through "randomized control trials", is irresponsible, bordering on malpractice.

Left one out: plasma transfusions, and probably others.

offcourse Angela,
But today,
If Italy and rest EU, knew these medicines one month before
she could save more
, TRUE
:cool-v:
now about Italy EU and America,
Lets see USA results, and we discuss again in one month,
if European Italy is more effective, or USA's Italy is more effective.

As for my Anti-Americanism,
I see how some Americans care about Italy, bringing mess and screaming for 'Lynch law', in the midle of the battle, to Italians,

PS
I wonder if now we discuss as mature and wise humans, or under emotional stress, and for what?
 
offcourse Angela,
But today,
If Italy and rest EU, knew thse medicines one month before
she could save more, TRUE
:cool-v:
now about Italy EU and America,
Lets see USA results, and we discuss again in one month,
if European Italy is more effective, or USA's Italy is more effective.

As for my Anti-Americanism,
I see how some Americans care about Italy, bringing mess and screaming for 'Lynch law', in the midle of the battle, to Italians,

PS
I wonder if now we discuss as mature and wise humans, or under emotional stress for reveange,

By USA's Italy, you mean New York? :) Well, I guess it can look like that: Governor Cuomo, Dr. Fauci etc. all are New York Italian-Americans as are a good number of anchors on TV and financial media people. I refuse to claim DeBlasio; that isn't his real surname, and he's only half-Italian anyway. :) Actually, it's the fact he's a dunce, and his far left "woke", "progressive" politics.

In actuality, however, this is the breakdown:


  • White: 42.67%
  • Black or African American: 24.27%
  • Other race: 15.12%
  • Asian: 13.95%
  • Two or more races: 3.51%
  • Native American: 0.43%
  • Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.05%
Italian Americans are only one of the ethnic groups which make up the "white" community. There is a huge Jewish community, and Irish, German, Polish, and English "AMERICANS".

There's 8.5 Million people in New York City, and of those "only" about 800,000 are Italian Americans. By comparison there are 1.1 million Jews in the five boroughs. If you count the greater New York Metro Area it's 1.3 million Italian-Americans. It still means NYC has the 3rd greatest concentration of Italians outside Italy, after Sao Paulo, Brazil, and Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Then, there was the exodus out to the suburbs for many of them as they climbed the social/economic ladder, and not just New Jersey, but also Nassau and Suffolk Counties in Long Island. On Long Island they constitute 25% of the population.

I think I can say for certain New York has a better shot, because it has the United States behind it, and Italy has no one to help it.

When you start talking crap about lynchings I'm out. If you mean the things which happened in the early periods of immigration, Americans don't obsess over what one ethnic group did to another one over one hundred years ago. This isn't the Balkans.

New Yorkers don't care, not just now but as a general principle, whether you're Italian-American, or Irish American, or Jewish-American or some mutt with various ancestries, which is increasingly the case. Did you even look at one of Cuomo's briefings? He picks the people he thinks can do the job, whatever the ethnicity. People here don't pick who to save based on ethnic background.

As for me personally, I've lived here most of my life now, and traveled all over the country, and I can say that I've never felt disrespected or devalued in any way. I can't say the same for some parts of Europe. Yes, I'd go so far as to say that on the whole Americans do love Italy, as Trump said. Of course, I wish some help went with that, but Italy isn't in a union with the U.S.

Now, I'm going to have a glass of wine, listen to some music, and play Scrabble with my friend.

Wait, no wine until after the game. She's a shark! :)
 
Yetos "Lynch Law?" Nobody is talking about hanging people, that is in my view rhetoric that is not consistent with at least what I am saying, and what others here who are Americans of Italian ancestry are saying at least from my perspective. Now, speaking for me, and only me, all I said is that I hope Italy follows the UK an exits the EU. I have given my analysis of the Strategic advantages that Italy has in an earlier post. One of them is Italy being an loyal and Strategic NATO ally to the US, hosting the 2nd Most US Military personnel in the EU at about 13,000 (trailing only Germany), an the largest US Navy presence in Europe. UK which is 3rd has about 9,000, Spain about 3,500 and Belgium where NATO HQ is about 1,500. That is a strategic advantage that Italy has that can be used if Italy does an Italian EU exit, which can be leveraged into Economic advantages given that Italy has 311 Sea Ports. Some of those ports, at strategic sites, can be upgraded to handle more shipping of goods and the US given its military presence can help with security of those ports.
 
Spaces that are being converted into emergency hospitals in Belo Horizonte. Municipal and state governments, plus private initiative, doing their part in the face of the omission of the federal government.

Othon Palace (current use: hotel).
JeNqZjb.jpg


Expominas (current use: exhibition park, large business events and large shows).
acTzM80.png


Mineirão (current use: soccer stadium, arena for major events and shows).
F0pNJBP.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 

This thread has been viewed 692596 times.

Back
Top