Health New Coronavirus in China

Some more back of the envelope (with the addition of a computer) analysis.

There may be something about "non mask culture" versus "mask culture", a culture which has a long history in East Asia, although how long I don't know. Was it a reaction to smog and pollution as some are suggesting, or the SARS fears, or is it older?

Korea would be the exception because of that bizarre religious sect which got hit early and refused to limit contact for a long time.

I've been saying from day one that the government proclamations about it not protecting you from infection made no sense. If that were true, why the drum beat that they have to be saved for health case workers?

Plus, if a big percentage of the population is wearing them, they're spewing less virus into the air around them.

Wish I had worn mine, no matter the social censure.

Not the only factor, but perhaps "a" factor...

CF7BfDA.png
 
I expect that in the coming week the US will take similar measurements as European countries took last week and weekend.
Stay away from the stock market for another week.

Countries that have banned Corona will have to close their borders till Corona is banned wordlwide.
This is what Singapoor allready does.
 
Italy has tested every inhabitant in a small town in the Veneto, population 3,432, and the epicenter of the virus in the Veneto, to try to get more information about this virus.

Of those infected, more than 50% are asymptomatic, but still highly contagious.
https://twitter.com/RobertoBurioni/status/1239107922417893378

Hope they pass this on to the WHO, who have been slow off the mark during this whole thing.

We should try to see if there's a copy of the paper available somewhere.

"Vò became the center of the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak in Veneto when two people were found positive on 21 February 2020. The next day, one of them, a 78-year-old man, died. This was the first death due to the virus in Italy. The number of infections had also risen to 29.[4] As of 28 February, there were 151 confirmed cases in Veneto, of which 70 cases in the municipality of Vò alone.[5]"


 
Some more back of the envelope (with the addition of a computer) analysis.

There may be something about "non mask culture" versus "mask culture", a culture which has a long history in East Asia, although how long I don't know. Was it a reaction to smog and pollution as some are suggesting, or the SARS fears, or is it older?

Korea would be the exception because of that bizarre religious sect which got hit early and refused to limit contact for a long time.

I've been saying from day one that the government proclamations about it not protecting you from infection made no sense. If that were true, why the drum beat that they have to be saved for health case workers?

Plus, if a big percentage of the population is wearing them, they're spewing less virus into the air around them.

Wish I had worn mine, no matter the social censure.

Not the only factor, but perhaps "a" factor...

CF7BfDA.png

This is a correlation or may be not....Scientist doubt:
The science, according to the CDC, says that surgical masks won’t stop the wearer from inhaling small airborne particles, which can cause infection. Nor do these masks form a snug seal around the face. The CDC recommends surgical masks only for people who already show symptoms of coronavirus and must go outside, since wearing a mask can help prevent spreading the virus by protecting others nearby when you cough or sneeze. The agency also recommends these masks for caregivers of people infected with the virus.

More practical, there is a world wide shortage of masks.....so let's keep them all for the health care personal!
 
Some more back of the envelope (with the addition of a computer) analysis.

There may be something about "non mask culture" versus "mask culture", a culture which has a long history in East Asia, although how long I don't know. Was it a reaction to smog and pollution as some are suggesting, or the SARS fears, or is it older?

Korea would be the exception because of that bizarre religious sect which got hit early and refused to limit contact for a long time.

I've been saying from day one that the government proclamations about it not protecting you from infection made no sense. If that were true, why the drum beat that they have to be saved for health case workers?

Plus, if a big percentage of the population is wearing them, they're spewing less virus into the air around them.

Wish I had worn mine, no matter the social censure.

Not the only factor, but perhaps "a" factor...

CF7BfDA.png

I think that is the big mistake of Europe and others
lack of masks?
or economical cost to produce and distribute free and low cost?

comparing Japan and Korea the effect of mask is x10
 
I think that is the big mistake of Europe and others
lack of masks?
or economical cost to produce and distribute free and low cost?

comparing Japan and Korea the effect of mask is x10

People don't know what they're talking about when it comes to masks, or they're talking out of both sides of their mouths out of ignorance or to prevent hoarding.

I AM NOT talking about surgical masks. I'm talking about N95 masks. They're more expensive, but much more effective.

Yes, it would be better if they were fitted, but less effective doesn't mean not effective at all.

If they weren't effective in preventing infection they wouldn't have clapped them on all the health care workers. Doctors and nurses in China were so desperate to have them on that they bleached the used ones when they'd worn them awhile and couldn't get new ones.

Plus, as I said it prevents people from spreading it to others. It certainly would have been a better solution than closing everything down, both for the mental health of people and for the economy.

Rationing is NEVER a freaking solution. Amped up supply is the solution. They should already have been cranking up production of these things by the billions, and I don't just mean the private companies. Trouble is, people sometimes listen too much to the supposed "experts".

There has to be a balance between listening to "authorities", and an individualist free for all.

In any situation: investigate and think for yourself, people.
 
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The coronavirus emerged in only December last year, but already the world is dealing with a pandemic of the virus and the disease it causes - Covid-19.

For most, the disease is mild, but some people die.

So how is the virus attacking the body, why are some people being killed and how is it treated?

Incubation period

This is when the virus is establishing itself.

Viruses work by getting inside the cells your body is made of and then hijacking them.

The coronavirus, officially called Sars-CoV-2, can invade your body when you breathe it in (after someone coughs nearby) or you touch a contaminated surface and then your face.

It first infects the cells lining your throat, airways and lungs and turns them into "coronavirus factories" that spew out huge numbers of new viruses that go on to infect yet more cells.

At this early stage, you will not be sick and some people may never develop symptoms.

The incubation period, the time between infection and first symptoms appearing, varies widely, but is five days on average.


Mild disease

This is all most people will experience.

Covid-19 is a mild infection for eight out of 10 people who get it and the core symptoms are a fever and a cough.

Body aches, sore throat and a headache are all possible, but not guaranteed.

The fever, and generally feeling grotty, is a result of your immune system responding to the infection. It has recognised the virus as a hostile invader and signals to the rest of the body something is wrong by releasing chemicals called cytokines.

These rally the immune system, but also cause the body aches, pain and fever.

The coronavirus cough is initially a dry one (you're not bringing stuff up) and this is probably down to irritation of cells as they become infected by the virus.

Some people will eventually start coughing up sputum - a thick mucus containing dead lung cells killed by the virus.

These symptoms are treated with bed rest, plenty of fluids and paracetamol. You won't need specialist hospital care.

This stage lasts about a week - at which point most recover because their immune system has fought off the virus.

However, some will develop a more serious form of Covid-19.

This is the best we understand at the moment about this stage, however, there are studies emerging that suggest the disease can cause more cold-like symptoms such as a runny nose too.

Severe disease

If the disease progresses it will be due to the immune system overreacting to the virus.

Those chemical signals to the rest of the body cause inflammation, but this needs to be delicately balanced. Too much inflammation can cause collateral damage throughout the body.

"The virus is triggering an imbalance in the immune response, there's too much inflammation, how it is doing this we don't know," said Dr Nathalie MacDermott, from King's College London.

iSp6AAx.png



Inflammation of the lungs is called pneumonia.

If it was possible to travel through your mouth down the windpipe and through the tiny tubes in your lungs, you'd eventually end up in tiny little air sacs.

This is where oxygen moves into the blood and carbon dioxide moves out, but in pneumonia the tiny sacs start to fill with water and can eventually cause shortness of breath and difficulty breathing.

Some people will need a ventilator to help them breathe.

This stage is thought to affect around 14% of people, based on data from China .

Critical disease

It is estimated around 6% of cases become critically ill.

By this point the body is starting to fail and there is a real chance of death.

The problem is the immune system is now spiralling out of control and causing damage throughout the body.

It can lead to septic shock when the blood pressure drops to dangerously low levels and organs stop working properly or fail completely.

Acute respiratory distress syndrome caused by widespread inflammation in the lungs stops the body getting enough oxygen it needs to survive. It can stop the kidneys from cleaning the blood and damage the lining of your intestines.

"The virus sets up such a huge degree of inflammation that you succumb... it becomes multi-organ failure," Dr Bharat Pankhania said.

And if the immune system cannot get on top of the virus, then it will eventually spread to every corner of the body where it can cause even more damage.

06UqjyW.png



Treatment by this stage will be highly invasive and can include ECMO or extra-corporeal membrane oxygenation.

This is essentially an artificial lung that takes blood out of the body through thick tubes, oxygenates it and pumps it back in.

But eventually the damage can reach fatal levels at which organs can no longer keep the body alive.

The first deaths

Doctors have described how some patients died despite their best efforts.

The first two patients to die at Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China, detailed in the Lancet Medical journal , were seemingly healthy, although they were long-term smokers and that would have weakened their lungs.

The first, a 61-year-old man, had severe pneumonia by the time he arrived at hospital.

He was in acute respiratory distress, and despite being put on a ventilator, his lungs failed and his heart stopped beating.

He died 11 days after he was admitted.

The second patient, a 69-year-old man, also had acute respiratory distress syndrome.

He was attached to an ECMO machine but this wasn't enough. He died of severe pneumonia and septic shock when his blood pressure collapsed.

Follow James on Twitter .

Copyright [emoji767] 2020 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.


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Maybe... if people forget their birth control.

But more importantly, is it safe to conceive a child while being infected with the Coronavirus? It stays dormant for 2 weeks before symptoms appear (if any), then can remain over 30 days in the body after having recovered. A fetus growing with a virus infecting the mother's body may have birth defects. It's well known for the Zika virus (which causes microcephalism). Covid-19 is a new virus. We have no idea what problems it could cause during pregnancy. Nobody seems to be talking about this, but for people in their 20's and 30's this is a much bigger concern than their own health (since the virus is so benign for young adults).
 
People don't know what they're talking about when it comes to masks, or they're talking out of both sides of their mouths out of ignorance or to prevent hoarding.

I AM NOT talking about surgical masks. I'm talking about N95 masks. They're more expensive, but much more effective.

Yes, it would be better if they were fitted, but less effective doesn't mean not effective at all.

If they weren't effective in preventing infection they wouldn't have clapped them on all the health care workers. Doctors and nurses in China were so desperate to have them on that they bleached the used ones when they'd worn them awhile and couldn't get new ones.

Plus, as I said it prevents people from spreading it to others. It certainly would have been a better solution than closing everything down, both for the mental health of people and for the economy.

Rationing is NEVER a freaking solution. Amped up supply is the solution. They should already have been cranking up production of these things by the billions, and I don't just mean the private companies. Trouble is, people sometimes listen too much to the supposed "experts".

There has to be a balance between listening to "authorities", and an individualist free for all.

In any situation: investigate and think for yourself, people.

I know
I manage to find 10 from a store that has products about dust of mettalic paints 9600 A multiusable 5-10 times
and I have my farming mask, which is better many times than KN95 (poisonous farming medicines gas mask) and also eye cover

even a sanitary napkin is much better than KN95
KN95 is not a very demanding mask,
 
People don't know what they're talking about when it comes to masks, or they're talking out of both sides of their mouths out of ignorance or to prevent hoarding.

I AM NOT talking about surgical masks. I'm talking about N95 masks. They're more expensive, but much more effective.

Yes, it would be better if they were fitted, but less effective doesn't mean not effective at all.

If they weren't effective in preventing infection they wouldn't have clapped them on all the health care workers. Doctors and nurses in China were so desperate to have them on that they bleached the used ones when they'd worn them awhile and couldn't get new ones.

Plus, as I said it prevents people from spreading it to others. It certainly would have been a better solution than closing everything down, both for the mental health of people and for the economy.

Rationing is NEVER a freaking solution. Amped up supply is the solution. They should already have been cranking up production of these things by the billions, and I don't just mean the private companies. Trouble is, people sometimes listen too much to the supposed "experts".

There has to be a balance between listening to "authorities", and an individualist free for all.

In any situation: investigate and think for yourself, people.

As far as I know these things are mostly made in ....China.

In these kind of matter when there is a shortage it’s common sense that health care has priority.
 
bachhhhh
Ouffff
I can't stay anymore locked inside my house
IT has another kind of Koronavirus,
MY WIFE.
 
Thanks, Duarte. :)

If the disease progresses it will be due to the immune system overreacting to the virus.

Those chemical signals to the rest of the body cause inflammation, but this needs to be delicately balanced. Too much inflammation can cause collateral damage throughout the body.

"The virus is triggering an imbalance in the immune response, there's too much inflammation, how it is doing this we don't know," said Dr Nathalie MacDermott, from King's College London.

This may be why they're getting some success with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus etc. immune disorder medications. They modulate the immune system not to be too active, without leaving you open to every bacteria or virus.

Problem is that the biologics are 10,000 per month per person. That's probably why they're using chloroquinine in some places; it's an old time medication for immune disorders, and it's cheap as dirt.
 
Italy has tested every inhabitant in a small town in the Veneto, population 3,432, and the epicenter of the virus in the Veneto, to try to get more information about this virus.

Of those infected, more than 50% are asymptomatic, but still highly contagious.
https://twitter.com/RobertoBurioni/status/1239107922417893378

Hope they pass this on to the WHO, who have been slow off the mark during this whole thing.

We should try to see if there's a copy of the paper available somewhere.

"Vò became the center of the 2019–20 coronavirus outbreak in Veneto when two people were found positive on 21 February 2020. The next day, one of them, a 78-year-old man, died. This was the first death due to the virus in Italy. The number of infections had also risen to 29.[4] As of 28 February, there were 151 confirmed cases in Veneto, of which 70 cases in the municipality of Vò alone.[5]"



“This is table broken down by age and sex. Also concerning is 18% false negative rate (another table). Link for full report:
https://www.scribd.com/document/450608044/Coronavirus-Regione-Veneto-Azienda-Zero-pdf

usZdbqk.png

I make no claims for the accuracy, as I haven’t read it yet, but I will.

The response is that factories in Veneto are gearing up to produce their own masks. Makes sense. It’s not like it’s blueprints for the atom bomb factories.

Isolating them, the percentage of the sick went from 3.2% to .3%, from 88 infected to 7 infected.

I’m assuming they mean isolating all those who tested positive, and percentage of the sick means people who have symptoms.

I'll have to read the paper to see if I'm interpreting that correctly. You guys can read it too.
 
Trouble is, people sometimes listen too much to the supposed "experts".
There has to be a balance between listening to "authorities", and an individualist free for all.

In any situation: investigate and think for yourself, people.

The measures that totalitarian regimes like China have made are not suitable for democracies.

I guess that this virus learns us that listening to authorities and experts on things like the right hygienic measures will hopefully prevent that the curve of sick will rise exponential so the health care is getting out of control (like in Italy) and can prevent draconian measures that lock our societies on the whole....

When think for yourself is ending in some kind of crackpottery it's all contra productive.

Requiring paid sick leave and guaranteed healthcare will slow the spread and economic consequences of corona.....
 
Given that the virus propagates in the throat, I've been taking a judicious amount of alcohol every so often.

Katherine Hepburn once told a story about the time she was making "The African Queen" on location. She said she was constantly ill, but Bogie and Huston weren't ever sick. She attributed it to the fact that they were constantly drinking. :)

When we didn't have modern medicine, they used alcohol and salt water. I have started to do the same. As I said, a judicious drink every once in a while, and gargle with salt water.
 
Given that the virus propagates in the throat, I've been taking a judicious amount of alcohol every so often.

Katherine Hepburn once told a story about the time she was making "The African Queen" on location. She said she was constantly ill, but Bogie and Huston weren't ever sick. She attributed it to the fact that they were constantly drinking. :)

When we didn't have modern medicine, they used alcohol and salt water. I have started to do the same. As I said, a judicious drink every once in a while, and gargle with salt water.

Reminds me of a scene in the news on TV. The government in the Netherlands announced on 17:30 that not only the schools on monday will be closed but also that pubs and restaurants had to be closed at 18:00.

In the middle of Amsterdam they went to a pub at about 17:45 and of course there was a grumpy man drinking beer....'alcohol is a disinfect so nonsens to close the pub' huhuh :grin:

More serious research:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110929235156.htm
 
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Given that the virus propagates in the throat, I've been taking a judicious amount of alcohol every so often.

Katherine Hepburn once told a story about the time she was making "The African Queen" on location. She said she was constantly ill, but Bogie and Huston weren't ever sick. She attributed it to the fact that they were constantly drinking. :)

When we didn't have modern medicine, they used alcohol and salt water. I have started to do the same. As I said, a judicious drink every once in a while, and gargle with salt water.

My wife and I drink a martini every afternoon for the same reason . . . haven't been sick once in the last 10 years! Don't argue with science.
 

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