Health New Coronavirus in China

Inside sweden’s radically different approach to the coronavirus
no lockdown, no quarantines, just voluntary advice and a big dose of hope

The ski pistes are open, the restaurants are doing ample business and the malls are awash with shoppers.
Welcome to Sweden, the last holdout among the small number of Western countries to have taken a radically different approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
While social life in Europe and much of the U.S. now centers on the home after governments imposed increasingly drastic curbs on freedom of movement, Sweden left offices and stores open, issued recommendations rather than restrictions, and waited to see what happens.
Businesses, kindergartens and schools remain open. After a long winter, Stockholm’s street cafes and outdoor bars swelled with people over the weekend, and the city’s old town drew large crowds as locals ventured out to enjoy the good weather. The only mandatory rules are a ban on meetings of more than 50 people and an order forcing bars and restaurants to only serve seated customers so as to avoid overcrowding.
The U.K. and the Netherlands also briefly considered letting the virus propagate through the population in a controlled manner so as to build a natural form of immunity. Both reversed course after academics warned they could face hundreds of thousands of deaths and an overwhelmed health care system.

It is too early to assess whether Sweden’s approach will have a benign or catastrophic outcome, but so far, the virus hasn’t spread widely there. Sweden, with 10 million inhabitants, had 4,028 confirmed infections and 146 deaths by Monday, according to a tally compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Austria, a similarly-sized European country with about 8.8 million people that is under lockdown, had 9,200 cases and 108 deaths.

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist and architect of the policy, says the approach, much like the original British one, is to let the virus spread as slow as possible while sheltering the elderly and the vulnerable until much of the population becomes naturally immune or a vaccine becomes available.
The next two weeks will determine whether Sweden’s approach can succeed or if authorities bend to the reality of a rash of new cases, said Dr. Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a physician and professor at the Karolinska Institute.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside...erent-approach-to-the-coronavirus-11585598175



 
A very good article by the New York Times about the difficulties of ramping up manufacturing ventilators. Among them:
1. Is this going to be a sole source contract? Or other companies will be tasked
2. How many will they have to make? The more you make the more the fixed cost of setting an assembly line will be spread over and
the cheaper they will be
3. Who is going to pay for them? FEMA, states, hospitals
4. Where to source all of the 700 to 1500 components that have to come from a dozen different counties
5. Who will distribute them?

I'm afraid they'll come to late.
 
If we use a mask we can still catch it through the eyes,

... here we go :) lol


GuVNiwn.jpg
 
@ Angela.

Have faith Angela. I know that what I will said next is just based in some statistics: As a rule, people who are in good health and healthy life are less likely to develop complications. This is not to say that they should not be quarantined, as they can act as spreaders of the virus by contaminating people who may have severe symptoms. Also there are many cases outside the curve, with young people deveveloping more severe symptoms. Quarantine aims to smooth the contamination curve, avoiding overloading the health system and allowing serious cases to be adequately treated and many lives to be saved. I am indoors confined with my son and wife. Yesterday I had a lot of fun with the two of them doing a sequence of exercises through a tele-class of the professor at the academy where they train. And so life goes on. Have faith dear friend. Everyhing is gonna be alright with you and your familiars.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
There's no way I'm gonna catch it :)

I follow all the rules and advice of the smarty pants on TV.

but more often than not. when they open their mouth without reading from a script, I realize they're all idiots :petrified:

... I'll definitely gonna catch it :annoyed:
 
Angela;600041Plus said:
I'm pro solidarity in the EU, for humanitarian reasons and also for the self intrest of the EU countries (one big market, is for exporteurs like the Dutch a big pro).

Nevertheless how fare does this solidarity reach? Legitimate question.

The Dutch (even many of the social democrats, yes Angela you read it well) government are strict followers of the lessons of the Chicago school of economics, reduce the public debt.....cut cut cut reduce reduce reduce this mantra has been consequent over times.....

The Italians were let's say it mildly not so consequent in this respect. You would say it in the NY way: they made it a mess ;)

And now is the Dutch government to blame to have taken Friedman c.s. too serious?

Let's be clear I'm not total into that 'calvinistic Scroodge' c.q. Friedman like politics.....but 'right wingers' have IMO no right to blame this kind of neo-liberal policy! ;)

Besides that everyone knows that a Italian EU exit is most of all tricky for the Italians.....(and honesty I would miss them in all aspects, but that's a personal opinion).
 
Last edited:
@Northener

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.


and all over the world there are 2 capitalistic model, by what I can see you call them right wings

The one I call anarchocapitalism, great example of such is G Sorros, from Neo-liberians to GlobaloTraders amd money transfer, Friedman school
The one I call middle class capitalism, typical of EU great glory days, Fiscal policy Central bank, Keynes model,

The communistic theories of Marx have already been rejected,
Yet it is a good study for economists and law school,

The socialists had no model, only the dream and the social (name me public) help
They have turn to be 2 groups in Europe
The ones that make their flag after Toma Piketty's work
the ones who accept a kind of 'social war' against capitalism, or monetarians, police and state, etc.
the hardest of the last are the ones who comes in Greece and Italy to 'save illegal immigrants'


Lately comes a new party,
The Capitalo-Socialisto-Globalists,
Like our ex prime minister,
They support the idea of a Global Goverment,
 
@Northener

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.

It's the actual discussion.
You and others did also a contribution in this respect.
And now I must keep my mound shut because of the crisis.....???
I keep it respectful for all members. And I'm not communicating in caps lock style or whatsoever. No ad hominem. So I keep it clear within our rules.
So I don't see a reason why I should not made a contribution.....

Or is this because you or others disagree with me?
 
This is quite political too and you even use words as dictator etc. I could say not now yetos.....

yup, you are right, I should not call him such.
but .. .. isn't ..
 
It's the actual discussion.
You and others did also a contribution in this respect.
And now I must keep my mound shut because of the crisis.....???
I keep it respectful for all members. And I'm not communicating in caps lock style or whatsoever. No ad hominem. So I keep it clear within our rules.
So I don't see a reason why I should not made a contribution.....

Or is this because you or others disagree with me?

The reporting is this,
11+1 ask for Corona bond, for their own reasons,
4 deny, for their own reasons
EU authorities think different, towards a 'Marshal plan',

That is the beauty of EU,

Discussion, and Democracy, pluralism of ideas and solutions, and respect to the Veto even of one.
 
The reporting is this,
11+1 ask for Corona bond,
4 deny,
EU authorities think different, towards a 'Marshal plan',

That is the beauty of EU,
Discussion, and Democracy, pluralism of ideas and solutions, and respect to the Veto even of one.

I know the Dutch government they are going to move.....'calvinistic arrogance' is in our genes, but cooperation, compromis, negotiation as well...mark my words.....
 
I know the Dutch government they are going to move.....'calvinistic arrogance' is in our genes, but cooperation, compromis, negotiation as well...mark my words.....

We both know that hundrends or thousands EUpoliticians think and work now,
some with Negative eye, some with Positive eye.
and somewhere and somehow a solution will be found,

participating and unite to EU is still a choice,
 
Half-year?

This is going to be really difficult to do.


Epidemiologist at the Clinic (Hospital in Barcelona): "If you want to win again, we will accept a new culture of epidemiology"

Anna Llupià argues that "stricter confinement is not needed" but "more selective", in reference to people with symptoms still down the street

img-20200327-220416-1_44_1600x800.jpeg


The coronavirus pandemic will not be able to be buried in a month or a half. At least this is the certainty that Anna Llupià conveys when contemplating the future approach to the infection. She is an epidemiologist at Hospital Clínic and has been closely monitoring Covid-19's behavior in recent months. Now, as we are about to reach two weeks of official confinement by the state of alarm, Llupià points to the crucial step that in the near future will have to be taken "to get out of it." "We will have to start accepting a new culture of epidemic or self-isolation as a routine," he warns.


That will be the price of returning to a kind of everyday life, says Llupià. "If we want to go out and relate to a certain amount of normality, we should apply this culture. And that means that anyone who has a little neck pain, can detect softer stools or suffocates, he must consider that. it is a positive case to prevent and isolate yourself, "says the Preventive Medicine and Public Health specialist.


That is, the minimal detection of symptoms linked to SARS-CoV-2 should be an immediate reason for confinement to the affected person, but not exclusively. "His contacts, with whom he had been in connection with the previous days for less than two meters and for more than 15 minutes, must also be isolated for two weeks," he adds.

This proposal also goes in line with what it proposes when assessing the current confinement situation, regulated by Royal Decree. "Confinement alone doesn't work. In fact, you don't have to be stricter, or as much as you are now, but more selective. We could organize ourselves. But the obvious thing is that what's happening now can't happen. that you should not be able to go super, "says the specialist at the Clinic. According to the defense, knowledge about coronavirus has not changed in recent weeks. "At the medical level, we knew everything. We did contact studies and ICU forecasts." However, he states that "it has been very fast." "Surely, on a social level, the control measures of the spread of the virus have overtaken us. And now we need to develop new tools," he concludes.

It also hints at the thinking that has been installed in many people, saying that coronavirus does not affect young people without previous pathologies. "It's a virus that attacks the entire population. It's true that if you are young and you have the means, you will usually leave, but that doesn't mean there is no risk," he says.


Precautions in the supermarket
On the security measures that can be taken during confinement, Anna Llupià is committed to raising awareness of the movements that are made when leaving, for example, when making a purchase. "Gloves are hands that you cannot wash as well as you would. So if you touch an item with those gloves and then you scratch your face or mucous membranes, we have broken it already," he says.


Managing what to do with the food packaging we buy is also not easy. The epidemiologist in woman gives some advice. One of the proposals for everything we do not have to eat the same day and that are medium term forecasts is to quarantine it. "You keep it and do not touch it for a few days. The virus lasts for a few days," he says. If they are foods that we want to consume immediately, there are other options, such as being very careful when spilling the contents of the container on the plate or the cooking utensil where we pour it. to do with gloves. "You have to consider the surface of that can to be dirty," he warns. The alternative is to disinfect the package. "But you have to do this with high concentration bleach and it's more complicated."

"We are giving everything"
The culture of isolation and social estrangement was one of the two important legs in managing an epidemic, says Anna Llupià, because it has to do with controlling the spread of the virus. The other crucial aspect is the current health response to the Covid-19 crisis. Barcelona hospitals are looking for new useful spaces, and administrations are starting to enable out-of-medical spaces - such as hotels or sports centers - to treat infected people or to welcome workers. "We will take care of the sick with all available means, but it must be clear that they will not be enough. Basically, because there will be attendances in spaces that have nothing to do with regular care. Anyway, we are giving everything, "he claims.


He also acknowledges the lack of material and the endless efforts being made by the centers to try to have as much resources as possible. However, he warns that there will be situations that are still unknown as to how they will end. One of the possible aids in detecting who has coronavirus and increasing the traceability of the infection is the rapid testes. But it's not easy to buy insurance and find out its usefulness. The Spanish government today acknowledged that it purchased more than half a million faulty fast pots. Llupià assures that the quality of this kind of test, when available devices, will be checked "with validations".

https://www.totbarcelona.cat/societ...Ha9QppNsDsU3V6ZrHkihrhQpR6aOIlgSxlcK8ZuI5b9Ck


The political class should learn from these health professionals that they are the ones who are pulling the chestnuts out of the fire, risking their own lives.

On the other hand, the panorama that is painted makes it very difficult not to end up getting infected sooner or later.
 
I would like confirmation if you can get it again once you had it..............and if so, does your immune system cope with this better

we have 3 confirmed cases in Australia of 1 year olds getting it ( announce yesterday, actually less than 1 year olds ) ............
 
I would like confirmation if you can get it again once you had it..............and if so, does your immune system cope with this better

we have 3 confirmed cases in Australia of 1 year olds getting it ( announce yesterday, actually less than 1 year olds ) ............

the first case is reported at Osaka Japan
Female

According to Chinese stats the % is 14% to reinfected by another corona,

it is in Greek, you may use google translator,
Σύμφωνα με τη βρετανική Daily Mail, ο κρατικός τηλεοπτικός σταθμός της Κίνας CCTV, μετέδωσε χθες την είδηση πως οι γιατροί βρήκαν πως η εκ νέου μόλυνση μπορεί να συμβεί ακόμη και στο 14% των ιαθέντων. Σε έρευνα που διεξήχθη, λοιπόν, στην Κίνα, 5 από τους 147 ασθενείς που συμμετείχαν βρέθηκαν για δεύτερη φορά θετικοί μετά την ανάρρωσή τους, ενώ σύμφωνα με τον αναπληρωτή διευθυντή του Κέντρου Ελέγχου και Πρόληψης Νοσημάτων της Κίνας, Song Tie, το ποσοστό όσων κολλούν τον κορονοϊό για δεύτερη φορά μπορεί να φτάνει και το 14%.


 
@Northener

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.


and all over the world there are 2 capitalistic model, by what I can see you call them right wings

The one I call anarchocapitalism, great example of such is G Sorros, from Neo-liberians to GlobaloTraders amd money transfer, Friedman school
The one I call middle class capitalism, typical of EU great glory days, Fiscal policy Central bank, Keynes model,

The communistic theories of Marx have already been rejected,
Yet it is a good study for economists and law school,

The socialists had no model, only the dream and the social (name me public) help
They have turn to be 2 groups in Europe
The ones that make their flag after Toma Piketty's work
the ones who accept a kind of 'social war' against capitalism, or monetarians, police and state, etc.
the hardest of the last are the ones who comes in Greece and Italy to 'save illegal immigrants'


Lately comes a new party,
The Capitalo-Socialisto-Globalists,
Like our ex prime minister,
They support the idea of a Global Goverment,

No I am supportive of the second one, an as broads as possible middle class....called Rhineland capitalism:
https://www.vanharen.net/blog/rhineland-model-v-2-1/
 
Yes, I participated in them too, but I think the EU thread is more appropriate for political discussions going forward, as I already stated some posts back.

Dr. Fauci's answers to common questions this morning on CNN. He talks about face masks, herd immunity, regular immunity, who's getting it,etc., in layman's terms.

At last someone is being honest and admitting that the face mask advice was based on a fear that health professionals would run short.


Btw, using the word "mess", is not Newyorkese, particularly; it's American English. I didn't realize it's unfamiliar to European speakers of English.
https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/71848/what-is-the-meaning-of-what-a-mess/71855
 
Yes, I participated in them too, but I think the EU thread is more appropriate for political discussions going forward, as I already stated some posts back.

Dr. Fauci's answers to common questions this morning on CNN. He talks about face masks, herd immunity, regular immunity, who's getting it,etc., in layman's terms.

At last someone is being honest and admitting that the face mask advice was based on a fear that health professionals would run short.


Btw, using the word "mess", is not Newyorkese, particularly; it's American English. I didn't realize it's unfamiliar to European speakers of English.
https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/71848/what-is-the-meaning-of-what-a-mess/71855

It's not unfamiliar Angela, but is seen as somewhat overdone;)

In the Netherlands the 'targeted lock down' is just extended to 28 april....and the schools are closed till 4 May....with overall a possibility of a prolonging of the measures.....so a 'house arrest' until begin May....a way to go.

The government is going to pay all the salary of the people that are working in company that has lost 20% or more of the sales volume.... in order to prevent an 'economic lock down'.
 
Yes, I participated in them too, but I think the EU thread is more appropriate for political discussions going forward, as I already stated some posts back.

Dr. Fauci's answers to common questions this morning on CNN. He talks about face masks, herd immunity, regular immunity, who's getting it,etc., in layman's terms.

At last someone is being honest and admitting that the face mask advice was based on a fear that health professionals would run short.


Btw, using the word "mess", is not Newyorkese, particularly; it's American English. I didn't realize it's unfamiliar to European speakers of English.
https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/71848/what-is-the-meaning-of-what-a-mess/71855

Trivial detail....due to corona crisis the Euro Song Festival is down the gutter......

For all the 'lock downers' here....the supposed to be Dutch contribution, the songtext reveals something more, a (personal) message, from me to everybody here ;)

 

This thread has been viewed 690713 times.

Back
Top