Health New Coronavirus in China

How typical, Northener: ignore all the mistakes of fact I pointed out in your post and go into an anti-US rant. Your analysis was flawed and illogical. Period. Sweden did not do a good job; not all the western democracies with socialized medicine did a good job, among them Belgium.

Also, I didn’t, btw, say that I approved of China’s methods. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I was saying that if you’d look outside of Western Europe you would see it’s false to say that bottom up methods always work better at eradicating a pandemic. Also, where the government tried to make it voluntary, I.e. Sweden, the people did not fall inline, and that comes from the remarks of their own leaders.
 
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"Perfectly Healthy" teen according to the headline?

Look, it is sad that he died, but this kid did not look perfectly healthy, he looks to be obese.

https://people.com/health/16-year-old-dies-suddenly-from-covid-19/



I think genetics is certainly a factor as to why minority groups may be disproportionaly affected by covid 19. Here are also some other interesting facts, that may be contributing:
  • African American women have the highest rates of obesity or being overweight compared to other groups in the United States. About 4 out of 5 African American women are overweight or obese.
  • In 2018, non-Hispanic blacks were 1.3 times more likely to be obese as compared to non-Hispanic whites.
  • In 2018, African American women were 50 percent more likely to be obese than non-Hispanic white women.
  • From 2013-2016, non-Hispanic black females were 2.3 times more likely to be overweight as compared to non-Hispanic white females.
  • People who are overweight are more likely to suffer from high blood pressure, high levels of blood fats, diabetes and LDL cholesterol – all risk factors for heart disease and stroke.1
  • In 2018, African Americans were 20 percent less likely to engage in active physical activity as compared to non-Hispanic whites.

https://www.minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=25

The last one kind of suprised me, considering that African-Americans excel in professional sports.


Below is from a new finding:


Forty-two percent of the 208 children in the CDC analysis had at least one underlying condition, usually obesity.

"Childhood obesity affects almost 1 in 5 U.S. children," the CDC authors wrote, "and is more prevalent in Black and Hispanic children."

"There's something about obesity that causes an underlying inflammatory state that we don't understand that much about," said Dr. Josh Denson, a pulmonary medicine and critical care physician at the Tulane Medical Center in New Orleans. Denson treats severely ill adult COVID-19 patients, and has recently published research on the link between the coronavirus and obesity in the African American population.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/we...among-kids/ar-BB17Hz07?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

 
How typical, Northener: ignore all the mistakes of fact I pointed out in your post and go into an anti-US rant. Your analysis was flawed and illogical. Period. Sweden did not do a good job; not all the western democracies with socialized medicine did a good job, among them Belgium.

Also, I didn’t, btw, say that I approved of China’s methods. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I was saying that if you’d look outside of Western Europe you would see it’s false to say that bottom up methods always work better at eradicating a pandemic. Also, where the government tried to make it voluntary, I.e. Sweden, the people did not fall inline, and that comes from the remarks of their own leaders.

The last one I agree with you, but as such the Chinese methods aren't interesting in battling corona (IMO). Why? Because I can imagine things that work in a totality regime that are very effective against things like corona. But the remedy is even worse than the disease. The patient is better but has then becomes a prisoner. So I restrict it to the so called 'free' world. I admit that is a bubble but a chosen one.

May be a country like Belgium does it beter in battling corona than Sweden. In strict sense. But taken in account that the Swedish society didn't knew a lock down and Belgium did I guess the overall conclusion is that Sweden rolls one knows a relative higher dead rate, but it has not lead to a outbreak. So they managed to keep on rolling, without a massive break out. And the figures in Belgium are rising faster now than in Sweden.....

And I'm not anti US. But when I see how the US is coping with corona you see a country in severe decline, And I consider that as a loss, because the US is IMO a mainstay in the 'free' world. But corona has highlighted the weaknesses in the US. I sincerely regret that.

PS and I am a patriotic Dutchman? No, because the Dutch did it quite good in battling corona, but I see a little 'searching' for the right attitude government right know, no good sign....
 
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Below is from a new finding:




You must not forget that things like obese is not only related to genetics, but have a very big life style/ social-economic factor too.... The US is for the most part still a segregated society black people still live more than average in poor area's.
Here comes much together: low income, more flex jobs, bad kind of nutricion etc. So extra vulnerable for the corona spread. You seem to neglect that.
 
The last one I agree with you, but as such the Chinese methods aren't interesting in battling corona (IMO). Why? Because I can imagine thing that work in a totality regime that are very effective against things like corona. But the remedy is even worse than the disease. The patient is better but has then becomes a prisoner. So I restrict it to the so called 'free' world. I admit that is a bubble but a chosen one.

May be a country like Belgium does it beter in battling corona than Sweden. In strict sense. But taken in account that the Swedish society didn't knew a lock down and Belgium did I guess the overall conclusion is that Sweden rolls one knows a relative higher dead rate, but it has not lead to a outbreak. So they managed to keep on rolling, without a massive break out. And the figures in Belgium are rising faster now than in Sweden.....

And I'm not anti US. But when I see how the US is coping with corona you see a country in severe decline, And I consider that as a loss, because the US is IMO a mainstay in the 'free' world. But corona has highlighted the weaknesses in the US. I sincerely regret that.

PS and I am a patriotic Dutchman? No, because the Dutch did it quite good in battling corona, but I see a little 'searching' fro the right attitude government right know, no good sign....

... no US decline, ... In the USA there are 50 Governors who choose how to best fight Covid-19, the Feds gives Guidelines and Logistics Support.

My State has been fantastic at fighting Covid-19, the latest numbers are excellent.

50 voices and methods internally, but only one Federal Executive Voice with Power in International Affairs.
 
... no US decline, ... In the USA there are 50 Governors who choose how to best fight Covid-19, the Feds gives Guidelines and Logistics Support.

My State has been fantastic at fighting Covid-19, the latest numbers are excellent.

50 voices and methods internally, but only one Federal Executive Voice with Power in International Affairs.

huhuh....I don't live in North Korea Salento so the current state of affairs about corona is followed closely here.....
And of course wut all the respect our perspectives are different.....but let's say my impression is that you are a little bit selective ;)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html
 
huhuh....I don't live in North Korea Salento so the current state of affairs about corona is followed closely here.....
And of course wut all the respect our perspectives are different.....but let's say my impression is that you are a little bit selective ;)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/world/coronavirus-covid-19.html

I stand by what I said, ... that New York Times article is selective and is about Political President Trump, it is not consequential in real life,
internally the decisions are made by the Governors, not by the President.
 
I stand by what I said, ... that New York Times article is selective and is about Political President Trump, it is not consequential in real life,
internally the decisions are made by the Governors, not by the President.

What I said is that the approach towards corona of the president and the governors is different, I'm not talking about formal lines. My impression is that sometimes the president want to exceed it's powers beyond it's limits in this respect...

As it comes to information by the president even facebook and twitter refuse nowadays his worse disinformation, that's unheard of in 'the free countries'. He is telling simply lies about the function of hydroxychloroquine. You may defend him but even if he spread lies about it you still do?
But it's more severe that there are no checks and balances in a proper democracy a president or prime minister gets nailed for that! Misleading the public....
And nowadays facebook and twitter have to do that job and not the congres?

And the decline of the US is there:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53574953
So no US decline is simply not true.

Like I said the corona virus is like a xray photo that makes very clear where all our nations (every!) have difficulties in their functioning.

The US hasn't a proper welfare system and an accessible health care etc.....all choices....but IMO the US is going to pay the price for it now. But that's my (privat) opinion like you said: 'I stand by what I said'.
 
You must not forget that things like obese is not only related to genetics, but have a very big life style/ social-economic factor too.... The US is for the most part still a segregated society black people still live more than average in poor area's.
Here comes much together: low income, more flex jobs, bad kind of nutricion etc. So extra vulnerable for the corona spread. You seem to neglect that.

It doesn't cost a lot of money to not eat poorly. Fruits and vegetables are cheap, so are certain meats you can buy. In fact, garbage food like McDonalds, and Burger King, are more expensive. It seems that some people just don't have the cultural background in how to prepare those kinds of meals for their families, I guess. But now that we have the internet, it is not esoteric knowledge. Nobody is force feeding people to eat fast food. People should take some accountability for their actions, and stop blaming others for their poor choices.

That being said, I actually really like Hispanic food, like Cuban and Columbian cuisine. They probably don't eat fast food as much as African-Americans though. Moreover, they are varied in terms of genetics.
 
It doesn't cost a lot of money to not eat poorly. Fruits and vegetables are cheap, so are certain meats you can buy. In fact, garbage food like McDonalds, and Burger King, are more expensive. It seems that some people just don't have the cultural background in how to prepare those kinds of meals for their families, I guess. But now that we have the internet, it is not esoteric knowledge. Nobody is force feeding people to eat fast food, but somehow you think they are? How about people take some accountability for their actions, and stop blaming others for their poor choices.

IMO it's a cumulation:

The problem is not that a McDonald’s exists in a community. The problem is that it has an overwhelming influence on what that community has access to. And at the end of the day, no corporation should ever, in my opinion, replicate or try to assume any of the roles that the state should take on — and that is to make sure that people have safe places to spend time, healthy food to eat, good jobs that pay good wages, access to medical care, access to the arts and cultural experiences, and access to funding for colleges. All of those things. I think our state responsibilities have been grafted upon corporations. If you want people to develop a healthier diet, they have to have a better quality of life in which they can make real choices about what they eat.


https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/1/10/21058393/mcdonalds-fast-food-black-franchise-marcia-chatelain
 
But now that we have the internet, it is not esoteric knowledge. Nobody is force feeding people to eat fast food. People should take some accountability for their actions, and stop blaming others for their poor choices.

That being said, I actually really like Hispanic food, like Cuban and Columbian cuisine. They probably don't eat fast food as much as African-Americans though. Moreover, they are varied in terms of genetics.


It's not that simple IMO. I'm a social climber in many ways, so I know something about habits, choices etc. Of course is't also about responsibility, but that's not the whole story.....

You have like I have acquired (partly or whole) some kind of (higher) middle class values. So when I come back from holiday's and I see hoho too much weight I go on exercise, watch out what I eat etc. Read some articles on the net.But not the whole worlds functions like that Jovialis.
 
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It doesn't cost a lot of money to not eat poorly. Fruits and vegetables are cheap, so are certain meats you can buy. In fact, garbage food like McDonalds, and Burger King, are more expensive. It seems that some people just don't have the cultural background in how to prepare those kinds of meals for their families, I guess. But now that we have the internet, it is not esoteric knowledge. Nobody is force feeding people to eat fast food. People should take some accountability for their actions, and stop blaming others for their poor choices.

That being said, I actually really like Hispanic food, like Cuban and Columbian cuisine. They probably don't eat fast food as much as African-Americans though. Moreover, they are varied in terms of genetics.

To be honest bro relatively speaking Fast Food is the cheaper option in the US. Not everywhere but in most places I have been.

I was mind boggled how expensive fruit and vegetables are relative to less healthy options in the United States. Things that most people take for granted in what some would call a 3d world country (2nd at best) like N Macedonia, ie "organic fruit and veggies at a relatively cheap cost, are IMHO highly overpriced in some parts of the US. (fruit veggies are organic by default according to the most common definition of organic, barring pesticides according to other definitions)

I am speaking from personal anecdote of course, so take my words with a pinch of salt. But say Massachusetts (Martha's Vineyard more specifically), NY City, and to some extend Metro Chicago for me it was cheaper on average to go to Burger King than opt for "organic" options.
That was not the case in other places I have been like Iowa, Suburban Illinois and Minnesota.

Overall I have to agree with you... It comes down to personal responsibility and owning up to ones choices. But lets not pretend that for some people it is not cheaper to kill themselves with highly caloric / cheap fast food rather than opt into the "organic" trend. Cost per calorie ratio wise. Quite tragic if you ask me :( .
 
To be honest bro relatively speaking Fast Food is the cheaper option in the US. Not everywhere but in most places I have been.

I was mind boggled how expensive fruit and vegetables are relative to less healthy options in the United States. Things that most people take for granted in what some would call a 3d world country (2nd at best) like N Macedonia, ie "organic fruit and veggies at a relatively cheap cost, are IMHO highly overpriced in some parts of the US. (fruit veggies are organic by default according to the most common definition of organic, barring pesticides according to other definitions)

I am speaking from personal anecdote of course, so take my words with a pinch of salt. But say Massachusetts (Martha's Vineyard more specifically), NY City, and to some extend Metro Chicago for me it was cheaper on average to go to Burger King than opt for "organic" options.
That was not the case in other places I have been like Iowa, Suburban Illinois and Minnesota.

Overall I have to agree with you... It comes down to personal responsibility and owning up to ones choices. But lets not pretend that for some people it is not cheaper to kill themselves with highly caloric / cheap fast food rather than opt into the "organic" trend. Cost per calorie ratio wise. Quite tragic if you ask me :( .

I disagree, fast food is more expensive, without a doubt. Even in places like Whole Foods, it is cheaper than buying something like McDonald's to feed a family. The area I live in has the highest cost of living compared to almost everywhere else in the country.

Go to a place like Sam's Club, or other big box stores, and you will get food in bulk. Some garbage like a single big mac meal like $7.50 plus tax, when you can buy a lot of ground beef and make hamburgers for a whole family for much cheaper. The problem is people are lazy and want to have their food readily made for them. I go shopping almost every two weeks, so I know.

The cost of fast food hamburgers has jumped over 54% in the last decade, and it is toxic for you to boot:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/fast-food-hailed-as-cheap-and-speedy-isn-t-such-a-steal-today
 
I disagree, fast food is more expensive, without a doubt. Even in places like Whole Foods, it is cheaper than buying something like McDonald's. The area I live in has the highest cost of living compared to almost everywhere else in the country.Go to a place like Sam's Club, or other big box stores, and you will get food in bulk. Some garbage like a single big mac meal like $7.50 plus tax, when you can buy a lot of ground beef and make hamburgers for a whole family for much cheaper. The problem is people are lazy and want to have their food readily made for them. I go shopping almost every two weeks, so I know.The cost of fast food hamburgers has jumped over 54% in the last decade, and it is toxic for you to boot:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-as-cheap-and-speedy-isn-t-such-a-steal-today
Also it is common knowledge that is much cheaper to cook food at home than eat out:
We found on average, it is almost five times more expensive to order delivery from a restaurant than it is to cook at home. And if you’re using a meal kit service as a shortcut to a home cooked meal, it’s a bit more affordable, but still almost three times as expensive as cooking from scratch.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/priceo...-do-you-save-by-cooking-at-home/#7ef4e2c735e5
Question for you, do you usually go shopping? Also, are you from this country, or Albania? Also, you don't have to buy "organic". Regular food is better than processed garbage from fast food. Organic is just a marketing slogan. If you go to a regular grocery store, not everything is labeled organic.
 
I disagree, fast food is more expensive. Even in places like Whole Foods, it is cheaper than buying something like McDonald's. The area I live in has the highest cost of living compared to almost everywhere else in the country.

Go to a place like Sam's Club, or other big box stores, and you will get food in bulk. Some garbage like a single big mac meal is over $10, when you can buy a lot of ground beef and make hamburgers for a whole family for much cheaper. The problem is people are lazy and want to have their food readily made for them. I go shopping almost every two weeks, so I know.

The cost of fast food hamburgers has jumped over 54% in the last decade, and it is toxic for you to boot:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/fast-food-hailed-as-cheap-and-speedy-isn-t-such-a-steal-today

You are probably right.

I was paying 10-15$ at BK for one meal in Hyannis, as Marthas did not even have large franchise Fast Foods (quite interesting place, good wages for seasonal work as a student (really nice tips), but the prices were nuts) xD. With that $15 I could probably scrape something up.
The thing is while the article you share says the prices of Fast Food have gone up by as much as 50%, it explicitly states its about the prices of non dollar (ie non low cost) menus.

As a vegetarian just the romaine lettuce was like $8 for 340 grams (12 oz), with the cheese (Parmesan) $5 for ~200g (8oz)... But the salad... at least Balkan style has a lot of ingredients that just add to the cost. So far, $13 for two salads with just those basic ingredients... with more ingredients the cost would be maybe $15+ or $20 to add some add-ons. Example: $9 for 8oz of feta... This is the healthy option imo. You could probably save money eating pasta, but who eats pasta more than 2-3 times a week over a longer stretch of time, and how healthy is it anyway(?).

Was it cheaper than the options? Sure going to a local non franchised fast food could set you back $20-30 minimum for the cheaper places. And you do not get the dollar menu options even at the cheapest places.
Given all that, it must be said that Martha's/Cape Cod is a very fringe example. Touristic place and all.

But compare this to a metropolis like Prague. I could swear the prices for healthy vegetarian options were sometimes even cheaper than N Macedonia (including certified high quality imports)(excluding some greens). Sounds insane, but just what I experienced.

All that said, you are absolutely right. Personal responsibility above all, and that has a lot to do with culture/upbringing/family values.
But relatively speaking I find it easier to eat healthy in Europe. Maybe I am hopelessly biased. That said props to the Mid West, their prices/options for eating healthy were amazing.

Edit since I just read your second post: Never disputed it is cheaper to cook yourself, its a no brainer, since you are paying for labor, delivery, markups and what not when you order, or eat in.
As for shopping yeah. I used to shop maybe every 3-4 days in Prague, where I lived for the first 5-6 months of 2020, I could scrape by spending 40-60 Euros every 3-4 days on groceries. Occasionally ordering delivery.
Right now I live in N Macedonia so seldom I am the one doing the shopping. Eat out far more. A thing I noticed is that for the same Italian imports, Parmigiano for example, I would pay less in Prague than in N Macedonia.

PS: How do you manage to shop once every two weeks :O ... That is some discipline. I was shopping so often, because If I would buy a lot of stuff like veggies and fruits at once it would go bad before I could eat it.
 
You are probably right.

I was paying 10-15$ at BK for one meal in Hyannis, as Marthas did not even have large franchise Fast Foods (quite interesting place, good wages for seasonal work as a student (really nice tips), but the prices were nuts) xD. With that $15 I could probably scrape something up.
The thing is while the article you share says the prices of Fast Food have gone up by as much as 50%, it explicitly states its about the prices of non dollar (ie non low cost) menus.

As a vegetarian just the romaine lettuce was like $8 for 340 grams (12 oz), with the cheese (Parmesan) $5 for ~200g (8oz)... But the salad... at least Balkan style has a lot of ingredients that just add to the cost. So far, $13 for two salads with just those basic ingredients... with more ingredients the cost would be maybe $15+ or $20 to add some add-ons. Example: $9 for 8oz of feta... This is the healthy option imo. You could probably save money eating pasta, but who eats pasta more than 2-3 times a week over a longer stretch of time, and how healthy is it anyway(?).

Was it cheaper than the options? Sure going to a local non franchised fast food could set you back $20-30 minimum for the cheaper places. And you do not get the dollar menu options even at the cheapest places.
Given all that, it must be said that Martha's/Cape Cod is a very fringe example. Touristic place and all.

But compare this to a metropolis like Prague. I could swear the prices for healthy vegetarian options were sometimes even cheaper than N Macedonia (including certified high quality imports)(excluding some greens). Sounds insane, but just what I experienced.

All that said, you are absolutely right. Personal responsibility above all, and that has a lot to do with culture/upbringing/family values.
But relatively speaking I find it easier to eat healthy in Europe. Maybe I am hopelessly biased. That said props to the Mid West, their prices/options for eating healthy were amazing.

Edit since I just read your second post: Never disputed it is cheaper to cook yourself, its a no brainer, since you are paying for labor, delivery, markups and what not when you order, or eat in.
As for shopping yeah. I used to shop maybe every 3-4 days in Prague, where I lived for the first 5-6 months of 2020, I could scrape by spending 40-60 Euros every 3-4 days on groceries. Occasionally ordering delivery.
Right now I live in N Macedonia so seldom I am the one doing the shopping. Eat out far more. A thing I noticed is that for the same Italian imports, Parmigiano for example, I would pay less in Prague than in N Macedonia.

PS: How do you manage to shop once every two weeks :O ... That is some discipline. I was shopping so often, because If I would buy a lot of stuff like veggies and fruits at once it would go bad before I could eat it.

Me and my wife cook at home almost every day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We don't eat out very often, especially now given the pandemic. Actually, our biggest problem is overstocking our refridgerator. Part of the reason I married her is because she is a good cook :grin:. She's Italian (central). Though we used to go out to places pre-pandemic, for something different.
 
Me and my wife cook at home almost every day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We don't eat out very often, especially now given the pandemic. Actually, our biggest problem is overstocking our refridgerator. Part of the reason I married her is because she is a good cook, she's Italian (central). Though we used to go out to places pre-pandemic, for something different.

Yeah, should have thought of that, having a partner certainly makes shopping groceries easier. Now, having an Italian partner that knows how to cook is a blessing, you're a lucky man.
 
It's not that simple IMO. I'm a social climber in many ways, so I know something about habit, choices etc. Of course is't also about responsibility, but that's not the whole story.....

You have like I have acquired (partly or whole) some kind of (higher) middle class values. So when I come back from holiday's and I see hoho too much weight I go on exercise, watch out what I eat etc. Read some articles on the net.But not the whole worlds functions like that Jovialis.

I was very surprised by the CDC finding that African-Americans get 20% less physical activity. Granted, if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, you are unlikely to go outside as often. Nevertheless, there are many exercise routines you can do at home, without even using equipment. But that comes down to guidance, and parenting. But I think part of the reason may come down to genetics, and how they store fat, as well as metabolism. My metabolism was always very fast.
 
I was very surprised by the CDC finding that African-Americans get 20% less physical activity. Granted, if you live in a dangerous neighborhood, you are unlikely to go outside as often. Nevertheless, there are many exercise routines you can do at home, without even using equipment. But that comes down to guidance, and parenting. But I think part of the reason may come down to genetics, and how they store fat, as well as metabolism. My metabolism was always very fast.

The thing is that IMO you can't bring it all down to (your own) personal choices/circumstances. It's nature and also nurture. In the US as in the Netherlands when born they can predict based on your zip code what your social-economic future will be. There are of course exceptions but generally they can.


To bring it to my own situation I discovered on geneplaza and yourdna that I have quite a few snp's that hint to become obese. I was in the twenties early thirties tall and lean. But some stress factors enhanced it, now I'm in the overweight danger zone, the lock down measures (no gym :( were not good in this respect....but the battle has begon and the first kilo's are gone! Hopefully fit for the predicted second corona wave....
 
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