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Thread: Upcoming Reich Lab paper on Viminacium etc

  1. #26
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    i think the romans were impressed by the dacian civilization (i may be wrong )
    http://www.angelfire.com/journal/dacians/

    and it wouldn't surprise anyone here if e-v13 was also significant among them ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    There is no evidence for what you are saying but there is a lot of evidence that E-V13 and the direct ancestor of all E-V13'S today lived in the Neolithic Cucuteni-Trypillian culture.
    And these guys were among the first builders of large settlements in Europe, way before the Steppe invaders came and destroyed those settlements.
    It extended from the Carpathian Mountains to the Dniester and Dnieper regions, centred on modern-day Moldova and covering substantial parts of western Ukraine and northeastern Romania, encompassing an area of 350,000 km2 (140,000 sq mi), with a diameter of 500 km (300 mi; roughly from Kyiv in the northeast to Brașov in the southwest).[1][2]

    Most likely the Steppe invaders have learned to build cities from the Neolithic people to which the ancestor of all modern E-V13 most likely belong.
    And even more likely is that this ancestor was in the Balkans way before any Steppe people.
    just check the TMRCA's of the E-V13 subclades to see they expanded around 4,7 ka, way after the end of the Cucuteni
    and the steppe invaders, they remained herders, they didn't build cities at that time
    well, I guess some of them became traders

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    pribislav from anthrogenica:
    posted the y haplogroups from those serbian roman and late antiquity
    but i am not sure about the veracity of them so i will wait for the real paper to come out .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    nope, the city builders were gone by the time E-V13 started to expand
    the steppe intruders were allready in the Carpathian Basin
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/
    the E-V13 godfather had probably learned his stricks from them
    We are grandsons of a man called Proteus( in Ancient Egyptian inscription prt ) who lived somewhere in Early Bronze Age. He was a farmer and warrior who lived in the Alpine region, descended of Old Neolithic Farmers. His family and tribe was killed by some invaders from the East, Bull Beakers. Proteus revenged his family by killing two of the sons of Bull Beaker leader then he escaped further south in Italian Penninsula where he was welcomed and entered the services of the King of Rutulis.

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    Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):

    E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)

    G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)

    R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)

    R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)

    J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)

    T x 1 (M184)

    I1 x 1 (M253)

    I2 x 1 (L596)


    Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):

    E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)

    J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)

    R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)

    G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)

    I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)


    Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):

    I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)

    E x 1 (L618)

    J x 1 (M304)

    R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)


    Lepenski Vir - 2:

    E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman

    J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval


    Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):

    G x 1 (P287)

    I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)


    Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):

    I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)


    from pribislav :

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post695643



    Originally Posted by Aspar
    Are these SNP confirmed or just predicted from STR markers?



    All samples were 1240K sequenced at Reich Lab, so they are SNP confirmed. They obviously haven't paid much attention to Y-haplogroups, so we'll have to wait for paper to be published to check the BAM files for downstream SNPs.



    One more thing, I've only seen samples from Serbia, but this paper should be massive, with hundreds of samples from all across the Roman Empire, so we can expect samples from other Balkan countries as well. I'm pretty sure there will be samples from Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece and Hungary, but I'm hoping there will also be some from Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegowina, Montenegro, Albania and Romania.




    p.s
    the e-z830 and e-m123 from
    Viminacium can turn e-m123* or E-L791 like napoleon

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post






    Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):

    E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)

    G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)

    R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)

    R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)

    J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)

    T x 1 (M184)

    I1 x 1 (M253)

    I2 x 1 (L596)


    Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):

    E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)

    J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)

    R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)

    G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)

    I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)


    Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):

    I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)

    E x 1 (L618)

    J x 1 (M304)

    R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)


    Lepenski Vir - 2:

    E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman

    J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval


    Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):

    G x 1 (P287)

    I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)


    Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):

    I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)


    from pribislav :

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post695643



    Originally Posted by Aspar
    Are these SNP confirmed or just predicted from STR markers?



    All samples were 1240K sequenced at Reich Lab, so they are SNP confirmed. They obviously haven't paid much attention to Y-haplogroups, so we'll have to wait for paper to be published to check the BAM files for downstream SNPs.



    One more thing, I've only seen samples from Serbia, but this paper should be massive, with hundreds of samples from all across the Roman Empire, so we can expect samples from other Balkan countries as well. I'm pretty sure there will be samples from Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece and Hungary, but I'm hoping there will also be some from Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegowina, Montenegro, Albania and Romania.




    p.s
    the e-z830 and e-m123 from
    Viminacium can turn e-m123* or E-L791 like napoleon
    Wow this is so exciting, thanks for sharing. Any word yet on autosomal results of the Serbia samples, or any other samples? Hopefully we will see the downstream Y DNA clades.

  7. #32
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    You welcome... 😉
    No i don't think anyone know on the autosomal
    Results of the serbian samples
    I also think it would be very cool
    Paper and when the bam file will be out
    Someone would check for downstream clades
    In each haplogroup..🤔
    P.s
    The autosomal picture is important
    For us to know or to make good guess
    On the ethnicity of each remain
    is he local moesian.... ?
    Is he roman soldier from legion... ?
    Is he auxilary soldier..... ?
    🤔

    Roman ruins in serbia ..


    https://davidsbeenhere.com/2016/08/2...-ruins-serbia/
    Last edited by kingjohn; 31-08-20 at 14:57.

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    it would be interesting if the 2 e-m35 samples from timacum minus and lepenski vir ( which are not asign to e-z830 or e-L618 and it's dervied clade E-V13
    will end up in e-L19 or e-m81

    Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):

    E x 3 (M35 x 1;
    L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)

    J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)

    R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)

    G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)

    I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)


    Lepenski Vir - 2:

    E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman

    J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval


    p.s
    as there where north african auxilary units in the roman army

    i now notice that in
    Viminacium
    there is 1 sample of z1902
    E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)
    z1902 is the common ancestor of e-v12 and e-v65
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1902/ fascinating
    wonder if this sample will end in e-v12 or e-v65 after bam files release

  9. #34
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    this is the name of the paper that will be published : ( from where the leak came)

    Olalde Iñigo: Human mobility at the Roman Danubian Limes before and after the fall of the Empireolalde is the same dude who made the great paper : on 8000 years of iberian history
    so i am looking forward to this paper

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    this is the name of the paper that will be published : ( from where the leak came)

    Olalde Iñigo: Human mobility at the Roman Danubian Limes before and after the fall of the Empireolalde is the same dude who made the great paper : on 8000 years of iberian history
    so i am looking forward to this paper
    Coming on June 1 conference

    https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...JkNZZJwxnzxuXg


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Coming on June 1 conference

    https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...JkNZZJwxnzxuXg


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
    9:00AM-10:30AM. Session 3 ‘Human Evolution’
    1. Olalde Iñigo. Human mobility at the Roman Danubian Limes before and after the fall of the Empire



    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Coming on June 1 conference

    https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...JkNZZJwxnzxuXg


    Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum

    thanks blevins for the link
    that is very cool there are many gifts in session 3

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    42. Guarino-Vignon Perle et al. Genetic continuity in Central Asia since Iron Age
    43. Makarewicz Cheryl et al. Identifying the geospatial origins of Altai Neolithic and Bronze Agecommunities in bone collagen delta-2H and delta-18O
    44. Ariano Bruno et al. Inbreeding in ancient Malta
    45. Leggett Samantha. Thinking Outside the box with human mobility studies: a case study fromearly medieval Europe
    46. Popović Danijela et al. Ancient genomes reveal long range influence of the site and cultureof Tiwanaku
    47. Green Eleanor et al. Dredging up genomes: leveraging submerged human remains tounderstand life and death around the River Thames
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    Sorry for the noob question, but when and where can we read the paper, since it's supposed to be published somewhere today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faunus View Post
    Sorry for the noob question, but when and where can we read the paper, since it's supposed to be published somewhere today?
    i think today it is only the date of the presentation of this paper in the conference
    not the actual date this paper will be published

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faunus View Post
    Sorry for the noob question, but when and where can we read the paper, since it's supposed to be published somewhere today?
    Good question. We should have booked a ticket for the conference btw, it was most likely online and we could ask more specific questions to the authors themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    i think today it is only the date of the presentation of this paper in the conference
    not the actual date this paper will be published
    KingJohn: I am not a facebook subscriber. Do you have a link to the conference? Many times the abstracts of the papers will be made available on the conference website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    KingJohn: I am not a facebook subscriber. Do you have a link to the conference? Many times the abstracts of the papers will be made available on the conference website.

    i am also not ,
    but i promise you this :
    when the paper will be published i will post it here

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    Why is there a DNA study for only Viminacium, but there is yet to be any from The Battle of Teutoburg site in Germany, which could potentially yield an estimated 15,000 - 20,000 Y DNA samples from the mass Roman graves?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy Overlord View Post
    Why is there a DNA study for only Viminacium, but there is yet to be any from The Battle of Teutoburg site in Germany, which could potentially yield an estimated 15,000 - 20,000 Y DNA samples from the mass Roman graves?
    If i am not wrong
    this paper will also be on other sites
    In serbia from roman period to early mediveal
    Not only viminacium ( like : Timacum Minus, ,Lepenski Vir,Mediana,Gomolava)
    your question is good maybe you
    Should emaill wolfgang haak or other researches from germany
    If they will decide to go for it
    I believe it could happen, and we could see dna from this site in germany
    Last edited by kingjohn; 03-06-21 at 17:33.

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