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Thread: Asian "grooming gangs" in England

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Bicicleur,
    https://www.ft.com/content/a8f26a56-...f-99e208d3e521

    Between the Muslims, their left wing sympathizers who identify with them as regards Israel, and old-fashioned right wing anti-semitism, they're facing an impossible situation.

    I don't know why they haven't all left, as Netanyahu urged, although of course he has his own ulterior motives.

    If it were me I'd be long gone. Read the writing on the wall, people.
    Become an FT subscriber to read:
    Anti-Semitism prompts 40% of European Jews to consider emigration

    A bold statement. How do they get to this?
    What is that anti-semitism and from who does it come?

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    I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.

    I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.

    What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."

    I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.
    I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.
    What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."
    I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.
    So, I guess you consider hate for Jews anti-Semitism
    But what about hatred for Israel? You mentioned both in the same breath. Many do so.
    Some consider criticising Israel anti-Semitism.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    So, I guess you consider hate for Jews anti-Semitism
    But what about hatred for Israel? You mentioned both in the same breath. Many do so.
    Some consider criticising Israel anti-Semitism.
    Do I consider hate for Jews to be anti-Semitism? Well, yeah. What do you want to call it?

    Hatred for Israel is not necessarily anti-Semitism, but it often is. There are reasons to dislike and oppose the policies of any nation, but the volume of hate versus Israel (no nation has had so much calumny aimed at it) argues for at least a measure of anti-Semitism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.

    I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.

    What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."

    I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.
    the left doesn't want to support antisemitism in any form, but it is better to be careful about this. for the same reason jewish communities in europe do not speak against muslims in general, if at all. it is about individual offenders. in fact the jewish communities even try to support the muslim community sometimes because they see that they sit in the same boat against the far right in europe which basically again uses anti-jewish propaganda. for example all those stories around the big evil jew Soros.

    criticising israel is never anti-semitism imo. in that case many jewish people would be anti-semites. in fact the first critique i ever heard came from a jewish person.
    a big difference with other countries is that israel was an obvious consequence of european actions and it is obviously supported and protected by the west. and i don't think the left is criticising israel more than other countries. just because some other groups want to add some critique just because they hate jews doesn't make criticising israel anti-semitic.

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    some Jewish organisations condemn criticism against Israel as being anti-semitic
    it pisses me off and I tend to project this behaviour to all Jews, which I shouldn't do
    but some do, because these organisations claim to be speaking for the Jewish community as a whole
    that is how these narrow-minded organisations help anti-semitism grow

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    some Jewish organisations condemn criticism against Israel as being anti-semitic
    it pisses me off and I tend to project this behaviour to all Jews, which I shouldn't do
    but some do, because these organisations claim to be speaking for the Jewish community as a whole
    that is how these narrow-minded organisations help anti-semitism grow
    I understand how that could be frustrating. It's not unlike criticizing the mismanagement of a sub-Saharan government and being told "you can't say that, it's racist!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    the left doesn't want to support antisemitism in any form . . . and i don't think the left is criticising israel more than other countries.
    Oh yeah? I can't talk about what's going on in Europe, maybe everything there is good, I sincerely hope so, but in the US the left is using Middle East politics and what they perceive to be the prejudices of our Muslim communities as an excuse to express some rather ugly things about Jews.

    As far as criticizing Israel goes, I don't think you'll find any country, no matter how dismal their record, that has received as many rebukes and condemnations from the UN as Israel. And I don't think there's a divestment movement concerning China's treatment of Muslims or Iran's treatment of gays. Why the difference?

    I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think those things are true. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

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    Radical leftist black organizations were anti-semitic starting from the 1960s with the rise of Black Nationalism and the purging of Jews from black civil rights organizations. It was a disgrace and an appalling show of lack of gratitude. I'm sure no American has to be reminded of Farrakhan's madness.

    As for Europe, far leftists, adopting the cause of the Palestinians, have turned concern for them into bigotry against Jews.

    Denial of these facts either means complete ignorance of the reality or complicity in the feeling.

    The Jews just can't win. Both the far left and the far right hate them.

    That's why Jews I know won't publicly criticize Israel even when they're queasy about certain policies, from those in the Palestinian territories and Gaza to the compromises that have to be made with the religious parties, when most of them are barely religious after all. When push comes to shove, that may be the only place which would welcome them with open arms and move heaven and earth to protect them. There's always that doubt that when the time comes it will be very few non-Jews who will risk their lives for them.

    The Chinese with their concentration camps for Uighurs is an excellent example. Where is the condemnation in the UN? Where are the marches, and petitions, and calls for boycotts? Where is the acknowledgement and condemnation of the Saudis, who still practice slavery? There are Europeans who even turn a blind eye to Muslims practicing child marriage and female genital mutilation, but they want to outlaw kosher butchers.

    When the UN starts bleating about human rights, women's rights, children's rights, I feel my head exploding. What about how women are treated in Africa, what about the fact that in certain countries girls are disfigured for trying to go to school? Do they pass resolutions against those countries? That was a rhetorical question. They don't. It's all very selective, and against a country facing an existential threat.

    You can't make this freaking stuff up.

    If it were up to me I'd close the UN down tomorrow. Build some middle income housing or put up parking garages. It would be a much better use of that real estate.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The report found multiple failings at the hands of GMP, including how fears over race relations appear to have played a part in senior police thinking when tackling grooming gangs comprised of predominantly Asian men.

    It added that officers were aware of "many sensitive community issues" around policing in south Manchester in 2002 and 2003.
    The report is about what happened more than 15 years ago, when Britain was under New Labour. Pakistani gangs used their takeout restaurants as a base to abuse children in care under 17. The PC atmosphere back then may have prevented investigating Asian gangs in the early-2000s as some officers claimed. Most victims were from council-run children's homes, which did not take good care of them. Until the late 1990s, the police were slow to act mainly due to the victims' social background (i.e. orphans or abandoned children in care) and the victims, who pleaded with police officers for help, were treated like criminals.
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 03-02-20 at 07:03.
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Oh yeah? I can't talk about what's going on in Europe, maybe everything there is good, I sincerely hope so, but in the US the left is using Middle East politics and what they perceive to be the prejudices of our Muslim communities as an excuse to express some rather ugly things about Jews.
    As far as criticizing Israel goes, I don't think you'll find any country, no matter how dismal their record, that has received as many rebukes and condemnations from the UN as Israel. And I don't think there's a divestment movement concerning China's treatment of Muslims or Iran's treatment of gays. Why the difference?
    I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think those things are true. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
    for me, what the Jewish settlers do on the east bank is land theft legalised by the Israeli government
    and you are surprised Israel is condemned by the UN?
    that other countries do worse is no excuse for Israel misbehaving

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    for me, what the Jewish settlers do on the east bank is land theft legalised by the Israeli government
    and you are surprised Israel is condemned by the UN?
    that other countries do worse is no excuse for Israel misbehaving
    Of course it is not an excuse. BUT if you see that the Principle of Proportionality is not applied (same outputs for the same inputs) you might start thinking that something is wrong.

    For me, it is obvious Israel is the most mistreated country in the world. Everybody, both on the Left and on the Right, hates them in an extraordinary fashion. And there is no reason for that, except envy.

    With all the pain and damage we all have done to Jews, we should support them in all possible ways. But instead, there seems to be a coordinated effort to exterminate them.

    I just love the Jews and Israel, for the balls they have to stand against their awful enemies, despite a clear imbalance in power and demography. Note: according to 23andme, I am 0% Jew.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    The input is not even proportional; it's not the same kind of input. Leaving that aside, as Farstar said, of course it's no excuse. However, none of this is an excuse for harassing people in the street, much less killing them.

    @Third Term,
    I doubt very much that Britain is any the less PC now. A while ago, I posted a video of James Fox, an excellent British actor, and his exchange with some deranged WOKE woman who told him he can't speak on racism in any way and whether it exists because he's a white man. For responding that was total nonsense he started a fire storm and even got death threats.

    If people think the U.S. is divided over "wokeness", they should look at Britain; that may even be worse.

    On a minor scale the same thing went on with the Harry and Meghan fiasco. He imported a "WOKE" woman into the royal palace. Perfectly legitimate complaints, imo, that both of them were incredible hypocrites for campaigning against global warming while flying around in private jets, that they were spending like drunken sailors etc. were labeled "racist" by both her and her husband. Rumors of her throwing tantrums because she couldn't use the crown she wanted for her wedding, acting like Bridezilla during the preparations, treating her staff like crap, etc. which at the time I thought might have been made up seem now, in hindsight, as if they were probably true.

    A society cannot function if illegality can't be prosecuted and questionable behavior pointed out if the "accused" is part of a "protected" minority. I've spent the better part of my life trying to ensure that every single individual is treated EQUALLY before the law. Is that always the case? No, it's not, but if we don't all stand together for that principle, no matter the ethnic identity of the perpetrator, then democracy is doomed.

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    A society cannot function if illegality can't be prosecuted and questionable behavior pointed out if the "accused" is part of a "protected" minority. I've spent the better part of my life trying to ensure that every single individual is treated EQUALLY before the law. Is that always the case? No, it's not, but if we don't all stand together for that principle, no matter the ethnic identity of the perpetrator, then democracy is doomed.
    I agree that the police need to go after criminals regardless of their ethnicity. Child grooming was rampant in the 2000s but knife crime is still an ongoing issue. Police officers are reluctant to stop and search minorities to avoid the appearance of racism, even though knife crime is overwhelmingly committed by black or Asian kids. Boris Johnson said he is determined to tackle rising levels of knife crime by announcing an extension of police stop-and-search powers. “We have the impression of a growing culture of insolence on the part of the thugs; and in the face of that sense of impunity – entirely misplaced – I believe the British public knows instinctively what we must do,” he said. The new British prime minister can change Britain for the better and he is also thinking about emergency laws to block the early release of convicted terrorists. After Brexit, Britain is no longer bound by the EU's human rights law that is overly protective of terror suspects.

    This article by a former detective who dealt with street grooming is very informative.

    Asian grooming gangs: how ethnicity made authorities wary of investigating child sexual abuse

    https://theconversation.com/asian-gr...l-abuse-130099
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 03-02-20 at 23:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post
    The report is about what happened more than 15 years ago, when Britain was under New Labour. Pakistani gangs used their takeout restaurants as a base to abuse children in care under 17. The PC atmosphere back then may have prevented investigating Asian gangs in the early-2000s as some officers claimed. Most victims were from council-run children's homes, which did not take good care of them. Until the late 1990s, the police were slow to act mainly due to the victims' social background (i.e. orphans or abandoned children in care) and the victims, who pleaded with police officers for help, were treated like criminals.
    But in May 2019 it was estimated that there were at least 73 grooming gangs operating in the UK. The inability of South Yorkshire Police and other forces to act professionally and speak openly and plainly about the ethnicity of on-street child abusers is a significant factor in why these horrific offences have gone undetected for so long and it remains a significant factor today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    The Chinese with their concentration camps for Uighurs is an excellent example. Where is the condemnation in the UN? Where are the marches, and petitions, and calls for boycotts? Where is the acknowledgement and condemnation of the Saudis, who still practice slavery? There are Europeans who even turn a blind eye to Muslims practicing child marriage and female genital mutilation, but they want to outlaw kosher butchers.
    maybe it's different in the US but here those countries are criticised the whole time. and when germany sells weapons to the saudis the protest usually comes from the left political spectrum. also what about trumps support for saudi arabia?
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...rabia-n1026926

    i never heard of europeans who agree or ignore child marriage or female genital mutiliation. child marriage is outlawed already and female genital mutiliation is also criminalised in the EU.
    Last edited by Ailchu; 04-02-20 at 01:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Plenty of Russian gangs in the US and then plenty of Albanian gangs also. There are plenty of Albanian criminals still in Greece.
    In Greece there have been many Albanian criminals because of proximity, so they are overrepresented. But not in Europe, and Spain especially. Morocco is 35 million people, no way Albanians can dominate illicit narcotic trade in Spain, not to mention Polish and Ukrainian mafia that are way more sophisticated and organized. In USA the dominant mafia is Blacks and Latinos, Russians are a very small part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    But in May 2019 it was estimated that there were at least 73 grooming gangs operating in the UK. The inability of South Yorkshire Police and other forces to act professionally and speak openly and plainly about the ethnicity of on-street child abusers is a significant factor in why these horrific offences have gone undetected for so long and it remains a significant factor today.
    When Jack Straw ( I think his name was) spoke in UK parliament about the issue, was not rape. If rape happens the police will come after them until catch or shoot them dead, gang or not gang. The issue was they were dating English women consensually, sometimes impregnating them but never marring them creating social problems. But they were not behaving the same way with their women. Because of large number of Asians behaving this way created the need to warn vulnerable white girls from this behavior of Asians, and warn the population of gang nature of Asians(Pakistanis in general).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    When Jack Straw ( I think his name was) spoke in UK parliament about the issue, was not rape. If rape happens the police will come after them until catch or shoot them dead, gang or not gang. The issue was they were dating English women consensually, sometimes impregnating them but never marring them creating social problems. But they were not behaving the same way with their women. Because of large number of Asians behaving this way created the need to warn vulnerable white girls from this behavior of Asians, and warn the population of gang nature of Asians(Pakistanis in general).
    Stop spreading such complete misinformation. This wasn't about 20 year old women white women having affairs with British Pakistani guys and then they didn't marry them.

    It helps to educate oneself before opining.

    This was indeed about rape and when it wasn't about "actual" rape it was about grooming vulnerable CHILDREN from dysfunctional families with drugs, alcohol, gifts etc.

    Eventually some men were convicted. Not enough of them, however, and not harshly enough. I always did think chemical castration has its place.

    "The abuse of underage girls that occurred in 2008 and 2009 centred around two takeaways in Heywood near Rochdale. Despite one victim going to the police in 2008 to report the child grooming, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) decided not to prosecute two men, invoking the witness's credibility.Attempts by Rochdale Crisis Intervention Team co-ordinator for the NHS, Sara Rowbotham to alert police and authorities to "patterns of sexual abuse" were ignored. Between 2003 and 2014, Sara Rowbotham, made more than 180 attempts to alert police and social services but was told the witnesses were not reliable.[14]
    As a result of the CPS dropping the case, the police halted their investigation, which was resumed when a second girl made complaints of a similar nature in December 2009.[15] The CPS's original decision was overturned in 2011 when a new chief prosecutor for the region, Nazir Afzal, a first generation British-Pakistani,[16] was appointed.[2]
    The victims, vulnerable teenagers from deprived, dysfunctional backgrounds, were targeted in "honeypot locations" where young people congregated, such as takeaway food shops. One victim, a 15-year-old known as the Honey Monster, acted as a recruiter, procuring girls as young as 13 for the gang. The victims were coerced and bribed into keeping quiet about the abuse by a combination of alcohol and drugs, food, small sums of money and other gifts.[1][2]
    The oldest person to be convicted, Shabir Ahmed,[17] was for a while the main trafficker of the victims. On one occasion he ordered a girl aged 15 to have sex with Kabeer Hassan, as a "treat" for his birthday — Hassan then raped the girl himself.[18] Abdul Aziz, a married father of three, took over from Shabir Ahmed as the main trafficker and was paid by various men to supply underage girls for sex.[18]
    Victims were physically assaulted and raped by as many as five men at a time,[1] or obliged to have sex with "several men in a day, several times a week".[9] The victims, plied with drugs and alcohol, were passed around friends and family,[19] and taken to various locations in the north of England, including Rochdale, Oldham, Nelson, Bradford and Leeds.[1] The abusers paid small sums of money for the encounters.[1] One 13-year-old victim recounted that, after being forced to have sex in exchange for vodka, her abuser immediately raped her again and gave her £40 to not say anything about the incident.[19] Among the incidents recorded by the police were a 15-year-old victim too drunk to recall being raped by 20 men, one after the other; and another victim so drunk that she vomited over the side of the bed as she was being raped by two men.[2] One thirteen-year-old victim had an abortion after becoming pregnant.[9]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochda...sex_abuse_ring

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    The problem is the Left is always putting people in boxes. And then, they consider they have the right to reduce the rights of some people in some boxes (the ones considered to be privileged) in order to give more rights to people in other boxes (the ones considered to be not-privileged).

    There are many problems with this approach. One is that it is impossible to put people in the "right boxes". Another one is that Left wingers are not "good people, willing to do good", but people who try to get the most benefit for themselves.

    As a consequence, what happens is that this process of making people with different rights (as opposed to everybody having the same rights) creates real discrimination. But this real discrimination is invisible, since the discriminated people are the ones considered to be "privileged" by the media, so **** with them.

    Putting people in boxes is the beginning of all evil. For example, saying "you are Muslim, so you are bad" is bad. However, it is not bad to recognize that Muslims have a higher propensity to bad behaviour than Europeans, in Europe. Also, men (like me) have a higher propensity to bad behaviour than women, and this does not mean that men should be stripped from their rights.

    But recognizing that statistically certain groups behave in certain ways is good. Prohibiting that people have this knowledge (as media do) is clearly bad. And as always, the law of unintended consequences kick in big time, for example with the case of Slavic people, who are now "discriminated" in the street (people believe that Slavic people are criminals) when in fact, Slavic people have been signaled because media uses the term "Eastern European gangs" to avoid using the "albano-kosovar" term, but then people relate intuitively the term "Eastern European" with "Slavic-looking", incorrectly. But politically correct media do not care (in fact, they like it, since they hate whiteness).
    Well, I couldn't help noticing a bit of an unwitting irony in your post when you said it is impossible to put people in the "right boxes", and putting people in boxes is the beginning of all evil, and then you go on to confidently xlaim that left-wingers always put people in boxes and are not "good people, willing to do good, but people who try to get the most benefit for themselves". You are apparently guilty of the same sin, but not focusing on ethnicity and instead on political/ideological leanings (in a pretty fervent, militantly polarized way as people are wont to do nowadays).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    In Greece there have been many Albanian criminals because of proximity, so they are overrepresented. But not in Europe, and Spain especially. Morocco is 35 million people, no way Albanians can dominate illicit narcotic trade in Spain, not to mention Polish and Ukrainian mafia that are way more sophisticated and organized. In USA the dominant mafia is Blacks and Latinos, Russians are a very small part of it.
    I never said albano-kosovars dominated criminality in Spain. What I said is that they are very often the responsible, when in the Spanish media talk about "Eastern European gangs".

    Albano-kosovars also became very famous (before the politically correct language became widespread, and journalists could describe reality with the right names) in very violent acts. In Spain, criminality is not very high, and the criminality that exists, is low intensity. Instead, albano-kosovars pushed violent crimes to a level never seen in Spain before (they were mostly trained in the military, if I recall correctly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Well, I couldn't help noticing a bit of an unwitting irony in your post when you said it is impossible to put people in the "right boxes", and putting people in boxes is the beginning of all evil, and then you go on to confidently xlaim that left-wingers always put people in boxes and are not "good people, willing to do good, but people who try to get the most benefit for themselves". You are apparently guilty of the same sin, but not focusing on ethnicity and instead on political/ideological leanings (in a pretty fervent, militantly polarized way as people are wont to do nowadays).
    Maybe you are right, at least partly. I am willing to concede my faults. And despite my claim, I do not think left wingers are bad per se. I think they are (often) bad now. Maybe one hundred years ago, they were good people.

    The key issue is to be able to concede one is sometimes (often?) wrong. Me, I am the first to accept this, and to accept that others may enrich me with their opinions.

    My alarms start to sound when I see people acting religiously on their opinions. In other periods of history, those were probably fascists, communists ... Now, I think the danger comes from the Left.

    But I could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    Maybe you are right, at least partly. I am willing to concede my faults. And despite my claim, I do not think left wingers are bad per se. I think they are (often) bad now. Maybe one hundred years ago, they were good people.

    The key issue is to be able to concede one is sometimes (often?) wrong. Me, I am the first to accept this, and to accept that others may enrich me with their opinions.

    My alarms start to sound when I see people acting religiously on their opinions. In other periods of history, those were probably fascists, communists ... Now, I think the danger comes from the Left.

    But I could be wrong.
    there shouldn't be left or right people
    each individual should make up his own mind on each seperate issue
    but there are to many people always listening to the same propaganda, be it left or right propaganda

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    [QUOTE=Angela;596508]Stop spreading such complete misinformation. This wasn't about 20 year old women white women having affairs with British Pakistani guys and then they didn't marry them.

    It helps to educate oneself before opining.

    This was indeed about rape and when it wasn't about "actual" rape it was about grooming vulnerable CHILDREN from dysfunctional families with drugs, alcohol, gifts etc.

    Eventually some men were convicted. Not enough of them, however, and not harshly enough. I always did think chemical castration has its place.

    "The abuse of underage girls that occurred in 2008 and 2009 centred around two takeaways in Heywood near Rochdale. Despite one victim going to the police in 2008 to report the child grooming, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) decided not to prosecute two men, invoking the witness's credibility.Attempts by Rochdale Crisis Intervention Team co-ordinator for the NHS, Sara Rowbotham to alert police and authorities to "patterns of sexual abuse" were ignored. Between 2003 and 2014, Sara Rowbotham, made more than 180 attempts to alert police and social services but was told the witnesses were not reliable.[14]
    As a result of the CPS dropping the case, the police halted their investigation, which was resumed when a second girl made complaints of a similar nature in December 2009.[15] The CPS's original decision was overturned in 2011 when a new chief prosecutor for the region, Nazir Afzal, a first generation British-Pakistani,[16] was appointed.[2]
    The victims, vulnerable teenagers from deprived, dysfunctional backgrounds, were targeted in "honeypot locations" where young people congregated, such as takeaway food shops. One victim, a 15-year-old known as the Honey Monster, acted as a recruiter, procuring girls as young as 13 for the gang. The victims were coerced and bribed into keeping quiet about the abuse by a combination of alcohol and drugs, food, small sums of money and other gifts.[1][2]
    The oldest person to be convicted, Shabir Ahmed,[17] was for a while the main trafficker of the victims. On one occasion he ordered a girl aged 15 to have sex with Kabeer Hassan, as a "treat" for his birthday — Hassan then raped the girl himself.[18] Abdul Aziz, a married father of three, took over from Shabir Ahmed as the main trafficker and was paid by various men to supply underage girls for sex.[18]
    Victims were physically assaulted and raped by as many as five men at a time,[1] or obliged to have sex with "several men in a day, several times a week".[9] The victims, plied with drugs and alcohol, were passed around friends and family,[19] and taken to various locations in the north of England, including Rochdale, Oldham, Nelson, Bradford and Leeds.[1] The abusers paid small sums of money for the encounters.[1] One 13-year-old victim recounted that, after being forced to have sex in exchange for vodka, her abuser immediately raped her again and gave her £40 to not say anything about the incident.[19] Among the incidents recorded by the police were a 15-year-old victim too drunk to recall being raped by 20 men, one after the other; and another victim so drunk that she vomited over the side of the bed as she was being raped by two men.[2] One thirteen-year-old victim had an abortion after becoming pregnant.[9]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochda...sex_abuse_ring
    [/QU

    You over react Angela! Nobody is spreading misinformation! Probably you spilled a hot spoon of soup while writing! I was talkin for 10 years ago, not now.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    I never said albano-kosovars dominated criminality in Spain. What I said is that they are very often the responsible, when in the Spanish media talk about "Eastern European gangs".

    Albano-kosovars also became very famous (before the politically correct language became widespread, and journalists could describe reality with the right names) in very violent acts. In Spain, criminality is not very high, and the criminality that exists, is low intensity. Instead, albano-kosovars pushed violent crimes to a level never seen in Spain before (they were mostly trained in the military, if I recall correctly).
    The same thing happened in Greece @farstar. Now my family and I have known many Albanians that came to Greece for work. They are very hard workers that scrimped and saved and made something of themselves. Some of them became Greek citizens, others went back to Albania and bought houses and opened up shops. But it is the .5% of Albanian/Kossovars that came to Greece that brought violent crime to levels never seen in Greece. Before that, the only violent crimes were crimes of passion and in the modern era those were actually going down. So the reputation of Albanians/Kossovars now is of a violent race when only very few engage in such behavior.

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