Asian "grooming gangs" in England

as if spain could be racist against albanians, their phenotype is not much darker than the one in spain. is it also racist to target spanish criminals? are they called western european instead? stop with this "brown skinned muslim" nonsense.
eastern european gangs do exist, i doubt muslim albanians are the majority.
here just one recent example

https://www.bayradio.fm/spanish-police-have-arrested-a-gang-of-polish-drug-traffickers/

another one
https://eu-ocs.com/polish-criminal-organisation-broken-up-in-spain/

why they label albanians as eastern europe? maybe it's because the media wants to have recognisable black sheeps. when people read eastern europe they already have feelings against this group. albanians are rather unknown in spain, a blank sheet.

My point is not that albano-kosovars are dark-skinned, but that phenotypically they are clearly different from Slavs. And Slavs are innocent bystanders that are assuming all the bad negative effects, of actions they are not responsible for, due to the evilness of politically correct journalists.
 
Well, I certainly think Tardis Blue's post is in line with what we're talking about, which is that western European countries are shamelessly kowtowing to their Muslim residents.

Whether there is sufficient proof in these two cases I don't know, but it's well known that crimes against Jews by Muslims are sometimes ignored, as crimes against working class white girls in England were ignored.

Do you think there's another exodus of Jews from Europe for no reason?

When the victims of "Muslim" crime are white, Christian girls we accept news reports, but when it's Jews we don't?

I told you what the difference is : there is no proof whatsoever that French justice chose to handle the case to avoid "stirring up islamophobia".
These are insinuations.
I admit you can question the verdict of the judges and I don't know their motivations, but here certain Jewish media and certain Jewish organisations are blowing things out of proportion.
Tell me what reasons are there for an exodus of the Jews out of Europe? Is there an exodus? Maybe some find better opportunities elsewhere, but it surely is not because of discrimination or being endagered.
 
This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and there is no proof whatsoever that French justice chose to handle the case to avoid "stirring up islamophobia".

I do think it has a lot to do with the subjet of this thread. Double standards are constantly applied, some racist crimes are hushed because they're committed by certain minorities, when such crimes make the news, they "edit" the name of the perpetrator (for ie, they choose a French sounding name) or avoid mentioning their ethnicity. Why do you think that is? Last year, a Guinean man was brutally murdered in front of his own wife by a Turkish hooligan who hurled racist insults at him. It was barely talked about. If the murderer had been a "White" man, it would have been all over the news.
Anyway, I stop here. Nowadays, it's impossible to have a rational debate about these issues without people falling into hysteria.
 
I do think it has a lot to do with the subjet of this thread. Double standards are constantly applied, some racist crimes are hushed because they're committed by certain minorities, when such crimes make the news, they "edit" the name of the perpetrator (for ie, they choose a French sounding name) or avoid mentioning their ethnicity. Why do you think that is? Last year, a Guinean man was brutally murdered in front of his own wife by a Turkish hooligan who hurled racist insults at him. It was barely talked about. If the murderer had been a "White" man, it would have been all over the news.
Anyway, I stop here. Nowadays, it's impossible to have a rational debate about these issues without people falling into hysteria.

I completely agree with you. This is what in the U.S. we call the "WOKE" mentality, and the same situation applies in Britain where free speech is under constant attack, the most recent example being that a scientist investigating group differences in IQ was recently fired.

Here in the U.S. there was a recent announcement that YALE University will no longer offer a course called Introduction to Art History, because all the artists are WHITE MEN. It's as if Cambridge or Oxford or the most prestigious university in other European countries did this.

Can you FREAKING believe it? There's been an uproar. We'll see what happens. Every single alumni who has given money to the college should instantly stop funding them. I personally favor people trying to get legislation through Congress that any university engaging in such attempts should lose any and all public funding it may receive. ENOUGH!

It's like living in Stalinist Russia or China. The government and their media toadies decide the favored groups and distort even history and science to support them.

If we stop protesting against things like this, Tardis Blue, they will win, and it won't be the kind of world we want to live in or for our children to live in.
 
@Bicicleur,
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f26a56-fc62-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521

Between the Muslims, their left wing sympathizers who identify with them as regards Israel, and old-fashioned right wing anti-semitism, they're facing an impossible situation.

I don't know why they haven't all left, as Netanyahu urged, although of course he has his own ulterior motives.

If it were me I'd be long gone. Read the writing on the wall, people.
 
@Bicicleur,
https://www.ft.com/content/a8f26a56-fc62-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521

Between the Muslims, their left wing sympathizers who identify with them as regards Israel, and old-fashioned right wing anti-semitism, they're facing an impossible situation.

I don't know why they haven't all left, as Netanyahu urged, although of course he has his own ulterior motives.

If it were me I'd be long gone. Read the writing on the wall, people.

Become an FT subscriber to read:
Anti-Semitism prompts 40% of European Jews to consider emigration

A bold statement. How do they get to this?
What is that anti-semitism and from who does it come?
 
I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.

I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.

What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."

I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.
 
I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.
I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.
What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."
I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.
So, I guess you consider hate for Jews anti-Semitism
But what about hatred for Israel? You mentioned both in the same breath. Many do so.
Some consider criticising Israel anti-Semitism.
 
So, I guess you consider hate for Jews anti-Semitism
But what about hatred for Israel? You mentioned both in the same breath. Many do so.
Some consider criticising Israel anti-Semitism.

Do I consider hate for Jews to be anti-Semitism? Well, yeah. What do you want to call it?

Hatred for Israel is not necessarily anti-Semitism, but it often is. There are reasons to dislike and oppose the policies of any nation, but the volume of hate versus Israel (no nation has had so much calumny aimed at it) argues for at least a measure of anti-Semitism.
 
I think we know where anti-Semitism comes from.

I remember as a young child being amazed when I first learned about anti-Semitism ("Gentleman's Agreement," et al). I couldn't comprehend what it was about. My parents were by no means woke; my mother was willing, as she would say, to "jew someone down" to make a deal. But disliking someone for their culture or religion was something I was never taught and still don't understand. There are people I don't like, but it's because they're not nice people.

What we seem to be seeing today is not so much right-wing anti-Semitism, though it certainly exists, as a combination of Arab hatred for Jews & Israel (I don't know, maybe with some justifications?) and a left-wing desire to support the underdog, no matter how vile their beliefs, so that they can "punch up."

I don't get it. Racism, no matter who expresses it, is wrong.

the left doesn't want to support antisemitism in any form, but it is better to be careful about this. for the same reason jewish communities in europe do not speak against muslims in general, if at all. it is about individual offenders. in fact the jewish communities even try to support the muslim community sometimes because they see that they sit in the same boat against the far right in europe which basically again uses anti-jewish propaganda. for example all those stories around the big evil jew Soros.

criticising israel is never anti-semitism imo. in that case many jewish people would be anti-semites. in fact the first critique i ever heard came from a jewish person.
a big difference with other countries is that israel was an obvious consequence of european actions and it is obviously supported and protected by the west. and i don't think the left is criticising israel more than other countries. just because some other groups want to add some critique just because they hate jews doesn't make criticising israel anti-semitic.
 
some Jewish organisations condemn criticism against Israel as being anti-semitic
it pisses me off and I tend to project this behaviour to all Jews, which I shouldn't do
but some do, because these organisations claim to be speaking for the Jewish community as a whole
that is how these narrow-minded organisations help anti-semitism grow
 
some Jewish organisations condemn criticism against Israel as being anti-semitic
it pisses me off and I tend to project this behaviour to all Jews, which I shouldn't do
but some do, because these organisations claim to be speaking for the Jewish community as a whole
that is how these narrow-minded organisations help anti-semitism grow

I understand how that could be frustrating. It's not unlike criticizing the mismanagement of a sub-Saharan government and being told "you can't say that, it's racist!"
 
the left doesn't want to support antisemitism in any form . . . and i don't think the left is criticising israel more than other countries.

Oh yeah? I can't talk about what's going on in Europe, maybe everything there is good, I sincerely hope so, but in the US the left is using Middle East politics and what they perceive to be the prejudices of our Muslim communities as an excuse to express some rather ugly things about Jews.

As far as criticizing Israel goes, I don't think you'll find any country, no matter how dismal their record, that has received as many rebukes and condemnations from the UN as Israel. And I don't think there's a divestment movement concerning China's treatment of Muslims or Iran's treatment of gays. Why the difference?

I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think those things are true. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
 
Radical leftist black organizations were anti-semitic starting from the 1960s with the rise of Black Nationalism and the purging of Jews from black civil rights organizations. It was a disgrace and an appalling show of lack of gratitude. I'm sure no American has to be reminded of Farrakhan's madness.

As for Europe, far leftists, adopting the cause of the Palestinians, have turned concern for them into bigotry against Jews.

Denial of these facts either means complete ignorance of the reality or complicity in the feeling.

The Jews just can't win. Both the far left and the far right hate them.

That's why Jews I know won't publicly criticize Israel even when they're queasy about certain policies, from those in the Palestinian territories and Gaza to the compromises that have to be made with the religious parties, when most of them are barely religious after all. When push comes to shove, that may be the only place which would welcome them with open arms and move heaven and earth to protect them. There's always that doubt that when the time comes it will be very few non-Jews who will risk their lives for them.

The Chinese with their concentration camps for Uighurs is an excellent example. Where is the condemnation in the UN? Where are the marches, and petitions, and calls for boycotts? Where is the acknowledgement and condemnation of the Saudis, who still practice slavery? There are Europeans who even turn a blind eye to Muslims practicing child marriage and female genital mutilation, but they want to outlaw kosher butchers.

When the UN starts bleating about human rights, women's rights, children's rights, I feel my head exploding. What about how women are treated in Africa, what about the fact that in certain countries girls are disfigured for trying to go to school? Do they pass resolutions against those countries? That was a rhetorical question. They don't. It's all very selective, and against a country facing an existential threat.

You can't make this freaking stuff up.

If it were up to me I'd close the UN down tomorrow. Build some middle income housing or put up parking garages. It would be a much better use of that real estate.
 
The report found multiple failings at the hands of GMP, including how fears over race relations appear to have played a part in senior police thinking when tackling grooming gangs comprised of predominantly Asian men.

It added that officers were aware of "many sensitive community issues" around policing in south Manchester in 2002 and 2003.

The report is about what happened more than 15 years ago, when Britain was under New Labour. Pakistani gangs used their takeout restaurants as a base to abuse children in care under 17. The PC atmosphere back then may have prevented investigating Asian gangs in the early-2000s as some officers claimed. Most victims were from council-run children's homes, which did not take good care of them. Until the late 1990s, the police were slow to act mainly due to the victims' social background (i.e. orphans or abandoned children in care) and the victims, who pleaded with police officers for help, were treated like criminals.
 
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Oh yeah? I can't talk about what's going on in Europe, maybe everything there is good, I sincerely hope so, but in the US the left is using Middle East politics and what they perceive to be the prejudices of our Muslim communities as an excuse to express some rather ugly things about Jews.
As far as criticizing Israel goes, I don't think you'll find any country, no matter how dismal their record, that has received as many rebukes and condemnations from the UN as Israel. And I don't think there's a divestment movement concerning China's treatment of Muslims or Iran's treatment of gays. Why the difference?
I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think those things are true. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

for me, what the Jewish settlers do on the east bank is land theft legalised by the Israeli government
and you are surprised Israel is condemned by the UN?
that other countries do worse is no excuse for Israel misbehaving
 
for me, what the Jewish settlers do on the east bank is land theft legalised by the Israeli government
and you are surprised Israel is condemned by the UN?
that other countries do worse is no excuse for Israel misbehaving

Of course it is not an excuse. BUT if you see that the Principle of Proportionality is not applied (same outputs for the same inputs) you might start thinking that something is wrong.

For me, it is obvious Israel is the most mistreated country in the world. Everybody, both on the Left and on the Right, hates them in an extraordinary fashion. And there is no reason for that, except envy.

With all the pain and damage we all have done to Jews, we should support them in all possible ways. But instead, there seems to be a coordinated effort to exterminate them.

I just love the Jews and Israel, for the balls they have to stand against their awful enemies, despite a clear imbalance in power and demography. Note: according to 23andme, I am 0% Jew.
 
The input is not even proportional; it's not the same kind of input. Leaving that aside, as Farstar said, of course it's no excuse. However, none of this is an excuse for harassing people in the street, much less killing them.

@Third Term,
I doubt very much that Britain is any the less PC now. A while ago, I posted a video of James Fox, an excellent British actor, and his exchange with some deranged WOKE woman who told him he can't speak on racism in any way and whether it exists because he's a white man. For responding that was total nonsense he started a fire storm and even got death threats.

If people think the U.S. is divided over "wokeness", they should look at Britain; that may even be worse.

On a minor scale the same thing went on with the Harry and Meghan fiasco. He imported a "WOKE" woman into the royal palace. Perfectly legitimate complaints, imo, that both of them were incredible hypocrites for campaigning against global warming while flying around in private jets, that they were spending like drunken sailors etc. were labeled "racist" by both her and her husband. Rumors of her throwing tantrums because she couldn't use the crown she wanted for her wedding, acting like Bridezilla during the preparations, treating her staff like crap, etc. which at the time I thought might have been made up seem now, in hindsight, as if they were probably true.

A society cannot function if illegality can't be prosecuted and questionable behavior pointed out if the "accused" is part of a "protected" minority. I've spent the better part of my life trying to ensure that every single individual is treated EQUALLY before the law. Is that always the case? No, it's not, but if we don't all stand together for that principle, no matter the ethnic identity of the perpetrator, then democracy is doomed.
 
A society cannot function if illegality can't be prosecuted and questionable behavior pointed out if the "accused" is part of a "protected" minority. I've spent the better part of my life trying to ensure that every single individual is treated EQUALLY before the law. Is that always the case? No, it's not, but if we don't all stand together for that principle, no matter the ethnic identity of the perpetrator, then democracy is doomed.

I agree that the police need to go after criminals regardless of their ethnicity. Child grooming was rampant in the 2000s but knife crime is still an ongoing issue. Police officers are reluctant to stop and search minorities to avoid the appearance of racism, even though knife crime is overwhelmingly committed by black or Asian kids. Boris Johnson said he is determined to tackle rising levels of knife crime by announcing an extension of police stop-and-search powers. “We have the impression of a growing culture of insolence on the part of the thugs; and in the face of that sense of impunity – entirely misplaced – I believe the British public knows instinctively what we must do,” he said. The new British prime minister can change Britain for the better and he is also thinking about emergency laws to block the early release of convicted terrorists. After Brexit, Britain is no longer bound by the EU's human rights law that is overly protective of terror suspects.

This article by a former detective who dealt with street grooming is very informative.

Asian grooming gangs: how ethnicity made authorities wary of investigating child sexual abuse

https://theconversation.com/asian-g...ry-of-investigating-child-sexual-abuse-130099
 
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The report is about what happened more than 15 years ago, when Britain was under New Labour. Pakistani gangs used their takeout restaurants as a base to abuse children in care under 17. The PC atmosphere back then may have prevented investigating Asian gangs in the early-2000s as some officers claimed. Most victims were from council-run children's homes, which did not take good care of them. Until the late 1990s, the police were slow to act mainly due to the victims' social background (i.e. orphans or abandoned children in care) and the victims, who pleaded with police officers for help, were treated like criminals.

But in May 2019 it was estimated that there were at least 73 grooming gangs operating in the UK. The inability of South Yorkshire Police and other forces to act professionally and speak openly and plainly about the ethnicity of on-street child abusers is a significant factor in why these horrific offences have gone undetected for so long and it remains a significant factor today.
 

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