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Thread: Asian "grooming gangs" in England

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    maybe it's because the reasons to be far left are different than the reasons to be far right. both positions are unhealthy but they aren't the same.

    which party do you mean? if the connections to communism are something positive in catalonia i assume this party must be quite popular
    Yes, the reasons are the same: to suck resources without others realizing of that. The only differences are the lies used.

    The party is called CUP. Fortunately, they have only a few seats in the Parliament. And truth to be told, possibly not all members of CUP are supporters of Stalinism (but an overwhelming majority are supporters of Communism).

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    Asian "grooming gangs" in England

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Actually, I think the current label is "Democratic Socialist". :)

    I don't care what people call it, as I suspect you don't care either; what I care about are the policy proposals.

    To my knowledge no whacko militia man from out west advocating putting people who disagree with him in camps has a senior position on the staff of a current presidential candidate.

    There's a long history of Marxist propaganda. I've been listening to it since I first went to listen to Herbert Marcuse. It hasn't changed.

    I don't want these 18-29 year old college students, which is Sanders' entire base going by the Iowa results, although maybe that isn't the best marker, becoming the Mao like Cultural Revolutionaries of America.

    As for the rancor between the parties, there have been other periods like this in American history, and we didn't need a 24 hour news cycle. Around the time of the Revolutionary War thousands of Loyalists felt they couldn't live here anymore, they were being harassed, and they moved to Canada. The pre-Civil War period was horrible, with duels, men in Congress attacking and seriously injuring each other in the halls of Congress itself, and then, ultimately, war. The atmosphere before WWI was also terrible.

    Maybe we were just spoiled by an unusually calm period. :)

    I agree, however, that I wish it weren't this way.

    Come on Angela! The point is that your country is polarized; a president who is cuddling the 'white milk' drinkers you mentioned a time ago....and that earns a kind of countervailing reaction, and never the two shall meet.....

    From a more European point of view (admitted at Eupedia? ;) Sanders seems to me an old fashioned leftist, in a Dutch newspaper of this morning there is a analysis of Sanders, friends of him said he was already in the sixties a kind of old fashioned man: so no long hair, cannabis, or Mao...a kind of 'thirties' old left. And that is consistent until today.

    As a social-democrat myself I stress that social democrats are in the first place democratic!

    So the suggestion that with Sanders a kind of neo Jacobines come to power and that the guillotine will run overtimes (I exaggerate) .....is something from the red scarce fairy tale book. More a symptom of the deep divide in the US.

    And the analysis of the paper ended with a nice observation, Trump and Sanders resemble each other in one thing, they are both spindoctor resistant! ;)
    Last edited by Northener; 08-02-20 at 13:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    “The earth is flat. Creationism is the correct science and not the theory of the evolution of species. Rock'n'roll was a KGB invention to destabilize the West and and stimulates drugs, sex, abortion and Satanism. Nazism is left-wing. Indigenous people need to integrate with society to become human. There was no military dictatorship in Brazil. Torturers are heroes and Pinochet saved Chile. Sex education must focus on sexual abstinence.”

    These are some of the pearls of thinking of the extreme right that governs Brazil today.

    God above all and save yourself if you can.

    OMG!!!!
    Human Resources Department of a public office of the Federal Government in Brazil. Reasons for firing a civil servant. Humor video by the Brazilian humor group “Porta dos Fundos”. English subtitles (just choose the subtitle language in the specific dialog).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Come on Angela! The point is that your country is polarized; a president who is cuddling the 'white milk' drinkers you mentioned a time ago....and that earns a kind of countervailing reaction, and never the two shall meet.....

    From a more European point of view (admitted at Eupedia? ;) Sanders seems to me an old fashioned leftist, in a Dutch newspaper of this morning there is a analysis of Sanders, friends of him said he was already in the sixties a kind of old fashioned man: so no long hair, cannabis, or Mao...a kind of 'thirties' old left. And that is consistent until today.

    As a social-democrat myself I stress that social democrats are in the first place democratic!

    So the suggestion that with Sanders a kind of neo Jacobines come to power and that the guillotine will run overtimes (I exaggerate) .....is something from the red scarce fairy tale book. More a symptom of the deep divide in the US.

    And the analysis of the paper ended with a nice observation, Trump and Sanders resemble each other in one thing, they are both spindoctor resistant! ;)
    Yes, indeed, the whole WOKE phenomenon, the stifling of free speech, the attitudes of Ocasia Ortiz (another Democratic Socialist who has endorsed Sanders and is considered the "future" of the new Democratic party) and her fervent supporters are a REACTION to Trump, not an organic outgrowth of movements within society dating back to the 60s and indeed even the 30s.

    Since you're being so rude to me, I'll return the favor.

    Are you kidding? Why don't you stick to analyzing European politics, and not American ones. I'd also suggest not relying on puff pieces written by European apologists for Bernie Sanders.

    I've been following Bernie Sanders and what he says and believes for decades. I know exactly what he's all about, and perhaps more importantly, I know what his supporters believe as well.

    They've been interviewed up the wazoo, and it's all very clear. They want, eventually, government take over of major sections of the economy, and they believe that will eventually give them free everything.

    Here is Alexandra Ocasio Cortez...

    "Ocasio-Cortez is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America[8] and embraces the democratic socialist label as part of her political identity. In an interview on NBC's Meet the Press, she described democratic socialism as "part of what I am. It's not all of what I am. And I think that that's a very important distinction."[151] In response to a question about democratic socialism ultimately calling for an end to capitalism during a Firing Line interview on PBS, she answered: "Ultimately, we are marching towards progress on this issue. I do think that we are going to see an evolution in our economic system of an unprecedented degree, and it's hard to say what direction that that takes."[152]
    She also, btw, believes in a guaranteed income and abolishing our Immigration Enforcement arm and throwing open the borders of the country to anyone who can get here.

    Now, that may all sound great to you, but it doesn't sound great to me. Luckily, I'll be voting, not you.

    Wait, I'm sure AOC would give voting rights to anyone who showed up too, so maybe you would be voting under her regime.

    As for "Jacobite" tendencies, do you think any politician is going to announce ahead of time that rights will be taken away? Really? I'll go with recordings of what they're saying privately, which is, for your information, exactly what they were saying privately (in small meetings on campuses) back in the 60s and way into the late 70s, when I heard them myself.

    I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump the last time, but if it turns out to be a Trump/Sanders race, I will this time with no hesitation.



    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, indeed, the whole WOKE phenomenon, the stifling of free speech, the attitudes of Ocasia Ortiz (another Democratic Socialist who has endorsed Sanders and is considered the "future" of the new Democratic party) and her fervent supporters are a REACTION to Trump, not an organic outgrowth of movements within society dating back to the 60s and indeed even the 30s.

    Since you're being so rude to me, I'll return the favor.

    Are you kidding? Why don't you stick to analyzing European politics, and not American ones. I'd also suggest not relying on puff pieces written by European apologists for Bernie Sanders.

    I've been following Bernie Sanders and what he says and believes for decades. I know exactly what he's all about, and perhaps more importantly, I know what his supporters believe as well.

    They've been interviewed up the wazoo, and it's all very clear. They want, eventually, government take over of major sections of the economy, and they believe that will eventually give them free everything.

    Here is Alexandra Ocasio Cortez...

    "Ocasio-Cortez is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America[8] and embraces the democratic socialist label as part of her political identity. In an interview on NBC's Meet the Press, she described democratic socialism as "part of what I am. It's not all of what I am. And I think that that's a very important distinction."[151] In response to a question about democratic socialism ultimately calling for an end to capitalism during a Firing Line interview on PBS, she answered: "Ultimately, we are marching towards progress on this issue. I do think that we are going to see an evolution in our economic system of an unprecedented degree, and it's hard to say what direction that that takes."[152]
    She also, btw, believes in a guaranteed income and abolishing our Immigration Enforcement arm and throwing open the borders of the country to anyone who can get here.

    Now, that may all sound great to you, but it doesn't sound great to me. Luckily, I'll be voting, not you.

    Wait, I'm sure AOC would give voting rights to anyone who showed up too, so maybe you would be voting under her regime.

    As for "Jacobite" tendencies, do you think any politician is going to announce ahead of time that rights will be taken away? Really? I'll go with recordings of what they're saying privately, which is, for your information, exactly what they were saying privately (in small meetings on campuses) back in the 60s and way into the late 70s, when I heard them myself.

    I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump the last time, but if it turns out to be a Trump/Sanders race, I will this time with no hesitation.

    The difference is that I don't see any respect of you that there is a social democratic tradition in large parts of the world that is to the core democratic. You may dislike the social democratic politics (as I dislike the Trump one), no problem, but seeing social democrats as 'despotic' is simple false.

    And by the way as if the persons of the Trump entourage are so pure democratic in their way of thinking.

    And beside the politics there is also the person. I always go for the test from which politicians I would buy a second hand car.

    And in the case of Trump or Sanders I would in the second hand car test go definitely for Sanders. More thrust worth. In the case of Trump you get much hollow words. And when your care is after a week predictable with some problems and you complain than you get a big mound and I will sue you....(in earlier days with his consiglieri Roy Cohn). That's the core of Trump.

    No extravaganza and me myself and I in the white House with Sanders.....

    I know Sanders would probably make no chance too much 'niche' in the US. But from European perspective it will be a great thing if that 'unguided projectile' in the White House would disappear.

    But i guess it will not take look long and mister Bloomberg comes into the scene, he has personal reserves that even Trump can't crush.....(30 million spot during the super bowl etc). We will see....
    Last edited by Northener; 08-02-20 at 22:05.

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    we are buying New Cars.

    as a reminder: 63 million Americans voted for Trump (3Xs the Holland population).

    ... and the USA is experiencing an Economic Boom.

    Trump Economy is the Envy of the World.

    imo people like money more than BS, and Trump is going to win again in a landslide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    we are buying New Cars.

    as a reminder: 63 million Americans voted for Trump (3Xs the Holland population).

    ... and the USA is experiencing an Economic Boom.

    Trump Economy is the Envy of the World.
    Amen from the Trump supporter's home.

    Even I know that in absolute figures Clinton got more votes (2.87 million more) ;)

    And I know that the Mohammed Ali principle 'I'm the...' is nowadays popular again: hear hear!

    What a world....

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    The rules:

    ... The election of the president and the vice president of the United States is an indirect election in which citizens of the United States who are registered to vote in one of the fifty U.S. states or in Washington, D.C., cast ballots not directly for those offices, but instead for members of the Electoral College ...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...ntial_election

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    1 members found this post helpful.

    Asian "grooming gangs" in England

    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The rules:

    ... The election of the president and the vice president of the United States is an indirect election in which citizens of the United States who are registered to vote in one of the fifty U.S. states or in Washington, D.C., cast ballots not directly for those offices, but instead for members of the Electoral College ...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...ntial_election
    hahah thanks I know them...in my country the party with the most votes wins....bust obviously not in the US ;) the greatest demorcacy in the world....without doubt;)
    Last edited by Northener; 08-02-20 at 23:30.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    hahah thanks I know them...in my country the party with the most votes wins....bust obviously not in the US ;) the greatest demorcacy in the world....without doubt;)
    the Map:
    red: MAGA Country
    blue: Dems





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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    the Map:
    red: MAGA Country
    blue: Dems





    Have you taken the population size in account? See: https://www.businessinsider.nl/2016-...onal=true&r=US


    Sent from my iPad using Eupedia Forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Have you taken the population size in account? See: https://www.businessinsider.nl/2016-...onal=true&r=US


    Sent from my iPad using Eupedia Forum
    The point is to equalize the importance of the states regardless of the population or you could end up like Germany who makes the rules for everyone else in the EU!

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    Asian "grooming gangs" in England

    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    The point is to equalize the importance of the states regardless of the population or you could end up like Germany who makes the rules for everyone else in the EU!
    I thought democracy had something to do with one man one vote and all those votes are equal.....

    Germany has also partly a federal system just like you have but the national elections are one man one vote.

    I know the background of it ; the founding fathers aimed with this system to temper the popular vote. But real Trumpist would be angered by such a system that is aimed to temper populism Salento.

    But I guess the founding fathers all in heaven are looking down now and are nodding with their wise heads.....


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    besides a referendum style vote, there are no pure democracies.

    The United States is a representative democracy.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    The difference is that I don't see any respect of you that there is a social democratic tradition in large parts of the world that is to the core democratic. You may dislike the social democratic politics (as I dislike the Trump one), no problem, but seeing social democrats as 'despotic' is simple false.

    And by the way as if the persons of the Trump entourage are so pure democratic in their way of thinking.

    And beside the politics there is also the person. I always go for the test from which politicians I would buy a second hand car.

    And in the case of Trump or Sanders I would in the second hand car test go definitely for Sanders. More thrust worth. In the case of Trump you get much hollow words. And when your care is after a week predictable with some problems and you complain than you get a big mound and I will sue you....(in earlier days with his consiglieri Roy Cohn). That's the core of Trump.

    No extravaganza and me myself and I in the white House with Sanders.....

    I know Sanders would probably make no chance too much 'niche' in the US. But from European perspective it will be a great thing if that 'unguided projectile' in the White House would disappear.

    But i guess it will not take look long and mister Bloomberg comes into the scene, he has personal reserves that even Trump can't crush.....(30 million spot during the super bowl etc). We will see....
    Where did I ever say that Democratic Socialists are "all" totalitarians in disguise? What I said is that Bernie Sanders' campaign harbors a lot of totalitarians. What I also said is that the extreme left in this country has a history of proposing gulags for those who disagree with them.

    If someone working for Trump was guilty of saying things like that I would be equally outraged, and I would expect the person and anyone spouting the same ideology to be fired immediately. Of course, that hasn't happened with the Sanders team, and, in fact, the leftist toadies in the media barely mentioned it.

    What I also implied and believe is that Socialism is a terrible system. It's my right to believe that and to vote accordingly.

    The person on this thread who started throwing insults and hurling disdain at another country and other people's beliefs is you, which is typical of leftists everywhere. When the facts prove uncomfortable, just ignore them and go off on a tangent and insult the other person's beliefs and his country's system.

    You really can't tell the difference between the Electoral College and someone wanting to send all conservatives to re-education camps?

    When Trump was first elected people on this board were screaming about how Trump was going to lead the U.S. into a recession and start WWIII. This is the reality:

    "Gallup: 59% of Americans say they are better off financially than they were a year ago, the highest level in the history of Gallup polling. Gallup has never recorded this level in over 40 years - even the dot com boom was 58%."

    Paul Krugman, who's never been right about anything, had to admit he was wrong to predict a recession with Trump's policies.

    I could go down a whole list of his accomplishments, but there's no point; you would never admit them. He has done better than I ever thought he would do. Does that mean I like him as a man? No, it doesn't and I don't, and he's been in my face for decades. I think he acts like a jerk half the time, but he's a jerk who has gotten things done of which I approve, and at least he's not a Socialist with "Jacobites", to use your term, working for him.

    For goodness sakes', you're even dogmatic, and authoritarian and insulting about genomics.

    You're not presenting a very positive image of leftists; just the same old intolerance and invective and refusal to deal with facts and instead rely on personal and national insults.

    So, in the future consider yourself ignored.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    For a level playing field, a Constituency (electoral college) is sometimes better than a Popular Vote.

    If a simple majority could be sufficient to elect a hypothetical EU President, It is likely that only candidates from the highest populated Countries will be elected.

    The minority Countries will always be underrepresented.

    Candidates will only campaign in the most populated Countries, ‘cause the other Countries are not important to them.

    And they will do anything to keep “Their” people happy at the expense of the others.
    ........

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Where did I ever say that Democratic Socialists are "all" totalitarians in disguise? What I said is that Bernie Sanders' campaign harbors a lot of totalitarians. What I also said is that the extreme left in this country has a history of proposing gulags for those who disagree with them.

    If someone working for Trump was guilty of saying things like that I would be equally outraged, and I would expect the person and anyone spouting the same ideology to be fired immediately. Of course, that hasn't happened with the Sanders team, and, in fact, the leftist toadies in the media barely mentioned it.

    What I also implied and believe is that Socialism is a terrible system. It's my right to believe that and to vote accordingly.

    The person on this thread who started throwing insults and hurling disdain at another country and other people's beliefs is you, which is typical of leftists everywhere. When the facts prove uncomfortable, just ignore them and go off on a tangent and insult the other person's beliefs and his country's system.

    You really can't tell the difference between the Electoral College and someone wanting to send all conservatives to re-education camps?

    When Trump was first elected people on this board were screaming about how Trump was going to lead the U.S. into a recession and start WWIII. This is the reality:

    "Gallup: 59% of Americans say they are better off financially than they were a year ago, the highest level in the history of Gallup polling. Gallup has never recorded this level in over 40 years - even the dot com boom was 58%."

    Paul Krugman, who's never been right about anything, had to admit he was wrong to predict a recession with Trump's policies.

    I could go down a whole list of his accomplishments, but there's no point; you would never admit them. He has done better than I ever thought he would do. Does that mean I like him as a man? No, it doesn't and I don't, and he's been in my face for decades. I think he acts like a jerk half the time, but he's a jerk who has gotten things done of which I approve, and at least he's not a Socialist with "Jacobites", to use your term, working for him.

    For goodness sakes', you're even dogmatic, and authoritarian and insulting about genomics.

    You're not presenting a very positive image of leftists; just the same old intolerance and invective and refusal to deal with facts and instead rely on personal and national insults.

    So, in the future consider yourself ignored.
    Of course I can see that US seems to have a prosperous economy right now. No doubt. And when the Democrats are continuing the way they now do....simple end of story.

    And when there are totalitarian tendencies left or right no doubt this is wrong. But I have the impression that you underestimate the difference; the extreme right in your country seems to me incredibly stronger than the extreme left.

    My prediction (for what it's worth) is the decline of the US will continue. Why? Because the mindset is only short term and economic based ('what's in it for me'). The public/ common good is totally erosive!

    Your country is spending more on prisons than on education for the children! And why? Partly because since the eighties the government and public spending is the problem. Privat wealth is considered ok. Public spending not ok. So public services as school are considered less important. Besides that we see that prison are runned like a business so they have a lobby for their own sake too....totally perverse IMO.

    The Americans have lost the sense for the public good.....Sanders could correct that, but I'm afraid he is not going to make it.

    Ok in the long run who can afford privat schools, gated communities etc will prevail but the nation as a whole? In a knowledge society.....I have my doubts.

    But I stay interested and never ignored, doesn't suit me! ;)
    Last edited by Northener; 09-02-20 at 15:08.

  18. #93
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    For a level playing field, a Constituency (electoral college) is sometimes better than a Popular Vote.

    If a simple majority could be sufficient to elect a hypothetical EU President, It is likely that only candidates from the highest populated Countries will be elected.

    The minority Countries will always be underrepresented.

    Candidates will only campaign in the most populated Countries, ‘cause the other Countries are not important to them.

    And they will do anything to keep “Their” people happy at the expense of the others.
    ........
    The more I ponder the work of the "Founders", the more impressed I am with their foresight and wisdom. The compromises which they hammered out are the reason that this democratic republic has lasted for so long.

    Two of the best things they did, imo, were the establishment of the Electoral College and the Senate, the latter with its two votes per state, no matter the population. As just one small advantage, it forces candidates to consider the effects of their policies on all segments of the country geographically and in terms of population. Protection of the minority view is important.

    To return to the topic of the thread, protection of minority "blocks" should never mean that they have preferential treatment before the law. The law is pictured "blind" for a reason.

    Have there been cases in the past where the law was stacked against minorities? Of course there were, and it's a disgrace. It's no excuse to now ignore illegality, however.

    More broadly, what the left in this country doesn't understand is that equality means equality of opportunity, not equality of result.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The more I ponder the work of the "Founders", the more impressed I am with their foresight and wisdom.
    Yes, yes, yes.

    The Founders studied the history of democracy (I suspect especially that of Athens) and knew that its great weakness was the tendency to mob rule. The myriad of checks and balances they created were meant to slow things down and to make it difficult to make dramatic change (like amending the Constitution or impeaching a President). It's worked pretty well so far and I don't think that current affairs are worse now than they have been many times in the past. We work through these things and soldier on.

    As to any decline, when I was younger I was told the Soviet Union was going to bury us, then it was Japan, then the EU, and now China. Who knows, nothing lasts forever, but I wouldn't bet against the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Yes, yes, yes.

    The Founders studied the history of democracy (I suspect especially that of Athens) and knew that its great weakness was the tendency to mob rule. The myriad of checks and balances they created were meant to slow things down and to make it difficult to make dramatic change (like amending the Constitution or impeaching a President). It's worked pretty well so far and I don't think that current affairs are worse now than they have been many times in the past. We work through these things and soldier on.

    As to any decline, when I was younger I was told the Soviet Union was going to bury us, then it was Japan, then the EU, and now China. Who knows, nothing lasts forever, but I wouldn't bet against the US.

    They studied the acte van verlathinghe, the independence decllaration of the Dutch republic, see this visit of Obama a couple of years ago:

    https://nos.nl/video/627324-rutte-la...nghe-zien.html

    And besides that the Dutch financed the young US republic, of course they teached Adams also a lesson in republicanism (Dutch are merchants and pastors in 1 ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj1cgBI5rdI

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    The Founders studied and understood everything they could; they had a big task and took it seriously. The point was, they weren't stupid. They created the current US system out of an abundance of knowledge about past failures and successes, a system that has lasted 250 years, so far. I don't know how much longer it will last, but we've had a pretty good run so far . . .

    And, yes, we do appreciate the aid the French and the Dutch provided (though if you read Adams you'll know he became pretty frustrated at one point, at least). The countries that aided us made our revolution possible. I don't know if this consoles you or makes you happy, but your country's action made the current America possible. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    For a level playing field, a Constituency (electoral college) is sometimes better than a Popular Vote.

    If a simple majority could be sufficient to elect a hypothetical EU President, It is likely that only candidates from the highest populated Countries will be elected.

    The minority Countries will always be underrepresented.

    Candidates will only campaign in the most populated Countries, ‘cause the other Countries are not important to them.

    And they will do anything to keep “Their” people happy at the expense of the others.
    ........
    I think you make an excellent point with this European example. This was the way America saw itself in 1783; a confederation of free states in which the smallest population states saw themselves as fully equal to their more populous neighbors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The Founders studied and understood everything they could; they had a big task and took it seriously. The point was, they weren't stupid. They created the current US system out of an abundance of knowledge about past failures and successes, a system that has lasted 250 years, so far. I don't know how much longer it will last, but we've had a pretty good run so far . . .

    And, yes, we do appreciate the aid the French and the Dutch provided (though if you read Adams you'll know he became pretty frustrated at one point, at least). The countries that aided us made our revolution possible. I don't know if this consoles you or makes you happy, but your country's action made the current America possible. Thank you.
    No thanks! Made no contribution ;) Just nice to see that at that time the founding fathers made a good job and took inspiration from elsewhere!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    Yes, because in these cultures, if a woman/female doesn't dress modestly, I imagine in head to toe garment, she is the low hanging fruit that their religion will grant them access to. It doesn't matter if a man has chastity, just the female. However, here in the west, we need to keep pretending this is acceptable behaviour, else be labeled a racist.
    To be fair their religion doesn't grant access to women just because they aren't dressing modestly. The same instructions that tell women to dress modestly also tell men to low their gaze before women and avoid being tempted by their looks. However, of course there is the troublesome issue of the permission to have sexual female slaves in some parts of Islamic scripture, as long as they were captured as non-Muslims and in a context of war IIRC.

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    There was this old story of 2003-2004 where a teenage girl from northwest england was groomed by 2 guys of a kebab, she disappeared and there was rumors that the 2 guys " raped here, killed here and made kebab meat of here body ". It was a very popular and frightening topic back in the days, weirdly they bot got released, and there was huge controversises about this, because a freelance detective made some illegal stuffs or what not.

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