Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 60

Thread: Can Spanish and Portuguese speakers understand Italian?

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    TardisBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-02-17
    Posts
    159
    Points
    9,094
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,094, Level: 28
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 256
    Overall activity: 0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    W3a1

    Ethnic group
    Cheesy macaroni
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone who speaks and reads "ITALIAN" can do quite well with written French. We share more vocabulary with French than with any other Latin based language. Pronunciation is different. It's much easier to understand spoken Spanish than spoken French.

    This just popped up on my youtube feed. It's from a series where they conduct a simple conversation in X language and provide subtitles in English to help in language acquisition. I think it's a good idea.

    The one that popped up asks French people which language they find the most beautiful. I return the compliment. After Italian I find French the most beautiful/then Portuguese/Spanish.

    It's a good way to see how much you can understand of spoken French.

    In an online poll conducted in 2018, a majority of language learners voted French as the most beautiful language… except the French themselves, who overwhelmingly voted for Italian. I agree. Were it not for my wonderful father who left when I was a kid and deprived me of my grandparents, I'd speak the language. Now I find I'm too lazy to start learning it (a shame). That being said, though Italian sounds more beautiful (more poetic, more romantic and melodic), English remains my favourite language. And French… well of course I love it, since it's my native language. But it can be so complicated and convoluted sometimes. I've read it doesn't sound so good in songs (maybe because we have so many "r" sounds, so it doesn't really flow well in a song).

  2. #27
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsTagger Second Class

    Join Date
    20-05-18
    Posts
    114
    Points
    3,308
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,308, Level: 16
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 142
    Overall activity: 99.1%


    Country: Portugal



    Eu consigo entender 80% do que é dito em italiano.

    I can understand 80% of what is said in Italian.

  3. #28
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,175
    Points
    31,651
    Level
    54
    Points: 31,651, Level: 54
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 299
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Country: Spain



    It seems that Germany increases the preference for Spanish. The Spanish is halfway there with the French and it is already perceived what the drift will be for the future for obvious reasons.


  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Joey37's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-06-18
    Location
    Coventry, Rhode Island
    Posts
    410
    Points
    6,142
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,142, Level: 23
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 408
    Overall activity: 20.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-YP445
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c2b

    Ethnic group
    Celto-Germanic
    Country: USA - Rhode Island



    English might not be the most beautiful language, but it doesn't have many sounds that I deem unlovely, like guttural Rs and throaty CHs. I also tend to deprecate an abundance of shibilants (sh-sounds). I would say maybe Italian or Greek, Spanish perhaps, without the Castilian lisp, I also like Finnish, well, the sound, just not the long words.

  5. #30
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TardisBlue View Post
    In an online poll conducted in 2018, a majority of language learners voted French as the most beautiful language… except the French themselves, who overwhelmingly voted for Italian. I agree. Were it not for my wonderful father who left when I was a kid and deprived me of my grandparents, I'd speak the language. Now I find I'm too lazy to start learning it (a shame). That being said, though Italian sounds more beautiful (more poetic, more romantic and melodic), English remains my favourite language. And French… well of course I love it, since it's my native language. But it can be so complicated and convoluted sometimes. I've read it doesn't sound so good in songs (maybe because we have so many "r" sounds, so it doesn't really flow well in a song).
    Open vowels are much easier to sing (when doing scales singers will typically use "AH", or think of the Do Re Mi song. :)) and create a more euphonic sound, and most Italian words end in open vowels. There are few Italian words with long strings of consonants. Also, the stress patterns are pretty regular and there's fewer diphthongs, which are harder to sing.

    I too really like the English language, and I like French very much as well, but I am passionately in love with standard Italian, if one can say that about a language.:)

    I'm obviously biased, so take the following for what it's worth, but I believe it. :)

    I think Italian is beautiful not just because of the things I mentioned above, or maybe it is the way I described it in terms of singing because it's a language that didn't develop organically; it's a literary language created by poets and novelists like Dante, Petrarca, Bembo, and Manzoni and only adopted broadly after unification in the 1800s.

    Bello/bella is one of the most used Italian words. Aesthetics is important, that something be beautiful is important, and so these poets and novelists created a beautiful and elevated language.

    Bembo, a poet from Venice and a lover of the Tuscan dialect, in his book "Discussions on the Vernacular" discussed how and why he chose the 14th century language of Petrarca as his model. One the reasons was specifically about sound, and the balance between light and heavy sounds.

    In a poem like the following, a very simple one by our Ligurian Nobel Prize Winner for Literature Eugenio Montale, I don't think you need to even understand the words to appreciate its beauty. Here it's interpreted by Luca Zingaretti, whom I think is a great actor.
    I went down a million stairs, at least, arm in arm with you.
    And now that you are not here, I feel emptiness at each step.
    Our long journey was brief, though.
    Mine still lasts, but I don't need
    any more connections, reservations,

    traps, humiliation of those who think reality
    is what we are used to see.


    I went down a millions of stairs, at least, arm in arm with you,
    and not because with four eyes we see better that with two.
    With you I went downstairs because I knew, among the two of us,
    the only real eyes, although very blurred,
    belonged to you.



    Or, La Pioggia nel Pineto, Rain in the Pine Woods, by Gabriele D'Annunzio, who whatever his flaws, was a good poet. You could get drunk on the sounds alone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeW6...qAjvXoyiDDwq_T
    Be silent. At the edge
    of the woods I do not hear
    the human words you say;
    I hear new words
    spoken by droplets and leaves
    far away.
    Listen. It rains
    from the scattered clouds.
    It rains on the briny, burned
    tamarisk,
    it rains on the pine trees
    scaly and rough,
    it rains on the divine
    myrtle,
    on the bright ginestra flowers
    gathered together,
    on the junipers full of
    fragrant berries,
    it rains on our sylvan
    faces,
    it rains on our
    bare hands
    on our light
    clothes,
    on the fresh thoughts
    that our soul, renewed,
    liberates,
    on the beautiful fable
    that beguiled you
    yesterday, that beguiles me today,
    oh Hermione.


    Can you hear? The rain falls
    on the solitary
    vegetation
    with a crackling noise that lasts
    and varies in the air
    according to the thicker,
    less thick foliage.
    Listen. With their singing, the cicadas
    are answering this weeping,
    this southern wind weeping
    that does not frighten them,
    and nor does the grey sky.
    And the pine tree
    has a sound, the myrtle
    another one, the juniper
    yet another, different
    instruments
    under countless fingers.
    And we are immersed
    in the sylvan spirit,
    living the same
    sylvan life;
    and your inebriated face
    is soft from the rain,
    like a leaf,
    and your hair is
    is fragrant like the light
    ginestra flowers,
    oh terrestrial creature
    called Hermione.


    Listen, listen. The song
    of the flying cicadas
    becomes fainter
    and fainter
    as the weeping
    grows stronger;
    but a rougher song
    rises from afar,
    and flows in
    from the humid remote shadow.
    Softer and softer
    gets weaker, fades away.
    One lonely note
    still trembles, fades away.
    No one can hear the voice of the sea.
    Now you can hear the silver rain
    pouring in
    on the foliage,
    rain that purifies,
    its roar that varies
    according to the thicker,
    less thick foliage.
    Listen.
    The child of the air
    is silent; but the child
    of the miry swamp, the frog,
    far away,
    sings in the deepest of shadows
    who knows where, who knows where!
    And it rains on your lashes,
    Hermione.


    It rains on your black lashes
    as if you were weeping,
    weeping from joy; not white
    but almost green,
    you seem to come out of the bark.
    And life is in us fresh
    and fragrant,
    the heart in our chests is like a peach
    untouched
    under the eyelids our eyes
    are like springs in the grass
    and the teeth in our mouths
    green almonds.
    And we go from thicket to thicket,
    at a time together, at a time apart
    (the vegetation, thick and vigorous,
    entwines our ankles
    entangles our knees)
    who knows where, who knows where!
    And it rains on our sylvan
    faces,
    it rains on our
    bare hands
    on our light
    clothes,
    on the fresh thoughts
    that our soul, renewed,
    liberates,
    on the beautiful fable
    that beguiled me
    yesterday, that beguiles you today,
    oh Hermione.



    Be silent. At the edge
    of the woods I do not hear
    the human words you say;
    I hear new words
    spoken by droplets and leaves
    far away.
    Listen. It rains
    from the scattered clouds.
    It rains on the briny, burned
    tamarisk,
    it rains on the pine trees
    scaly and rough,
    it rains on the divine
    myrtle,
    on the bright ginestra flowers
    gathered together,
    on the junipers full of
    fragrant berries,
    it rains on our sylvan
    faces,
    it rains on our
    bare hands
    on our light
    clothes,
    on the fresh thoughts
    that our soul, renewed,
    liberates,
    on the beautiful fable
    that beguiled you
    yesterday, that beguiles me today,
    oh Hermione.

    Last edited by Angela; 02-03-20 at 23:10.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  6. #31
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,844
    Points
    33,648
    Level
    56
    Points: 33,648, Level: 56
    Level completed: 50%, Points required for next Level: 602
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    I'm curious to know what you guys think about Portuguese vis à vis Spanish, Italian and French. Do your ears perceive it as sounding really similar to its first cousin Spanish/Castillian, or would you say it sounds like some strange conflation of Spanish, French and Russian (yes, I've heard such a weird description more than once) or something else more "unique"?

    For those who want to give it another listening before voicing an opinion, this is European Portuguese:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zyxM48Qd7w

    And this is Brazilian Portuguese accent, mostly from São Paulo (highly distinctive sound in my opinion compared to other Brazilian accents):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0EH-hdRBs

  7. #32
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,175
    Points
    31,651
    Level
    54
    Points: 31,651, Level: 54
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 299
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Country: Spain



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I'm curious to know what you guys think about Portuguese vis à vis Spanish, Italian and French. Do your ears perceive it as sounding really similar to its first cousin Spanish/Castillian, or would you say it sounds like some strange conflation of Spanish, French and Russian (yes, I've heard such a weird description more than once) or something else more "unique"?


    I have practically understood the entire Portuguese poem in French or Italian, I might not have understood it even a quarter.

    It reminds me more of Russian in loudness. In my Spanish I was born until 7 years old, the S did not exist so I find it an effort for me apart that if I could communicate by telepathy, I am terribly lazy to speak and this type of languages requires a lot of effort and Spanish can speak it Almost without opening his mouth and linear without accents, he is lazy to talk so much.

  8. #33
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I'm curious to know what you guys think about Portuguese vis à vis Spanish, Italian and French. Do your ears perceive it as sounding really similar to its first cousin Spanish/Castillian, or would you say it sounds like some strange conflation of Spanish, French and Russian (yes, I've heard such a weird description more than once) or something else more "unique"?

    For those who want to give it another listening before voicing an opinion, this is European Portuguese:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zyxM48Qd7w

    And this is Brazilian Portuguese accent, mostly from São Paulo (highly distinctive sound in my opinion compared to other Brazilian accents):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0EH-hdRBs
    Anyone who knows even a bit of Spanish would know this is a sister language, I think. I don't know where people get Russian from unless it's because of the sh sound. That sound is also in some Ligurian words, so I guess "Russian" didn't occur to me.

    No offense, but the man from Sao Paulo sounds like an Italian speaking Portuguese to me: accent, cadence, rhythm, everything. I think I sound like that speaking Portuguese. :)

  9. #34
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,844
    Points
    33,648
    Level
    56
    Points: 33,648, Level: 56
    Level completed: 50%, Points required for next Level: 602
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone who knows even a bit of Spanish would know this is a sister language, I think. I don't know where people get Russian from unless it's because of the sh sound. That sound is also in some Ligurian words, so I guess "Russian" didn't occur to me.

    No offense, but the man from Sao Paulo sounds like an Italian speaking Portuguese to me: accent, cadence, rhythm, everything. I think I sound like that speaking Portuguese. :)
    I also think so, but I guess those comments come from people who barely know Spanish and notice it's "kind of like Spanish but with a different sound" (Portuguese phonology is really very deviant from Spanish phonology, many more phonemes, different patterns of stress and cadence, a much "stronger", more forcefully articulated prosody - I'd say it's closer to Italian than to Spanish in that respect -, etc.).

    No offense taken! Don't worry, I'm from a place 2,000 km away from São Paulo, and in fact I must say: you nailed it in your comment. The accents of São Paulo (both the state and, in particular, the city) were heavily influenced by Italian immigration from the 1870s to the 1930s (the majority of them - and they were many, more than 1.5 million - went to São Paulo and multiplied rapidly there). Even many Brazilians joke that they can sound like an Italian trying to speak Portuguese (and sometimes failing at that, lol - just joking, guys... well, not so much, lol). There is also other typical accent in the state, probably the "original" one, which is the "caipira" accent mainly found in the interior of the state. I'd say most modern Paulistas speak some dialectal form that is somewhere between that "Italianized" Portuguese and the core "caipira" dialect.

    As for my own dialect, I'm from the northeasternmost part of Northeastern Brazil, which also has its own very distinctive dialect (believe me, we have even a few dictionaries with words and expressions that are only or mostly used here, but unknown in other parts of Brazil). I'm not sure foreigners can readily notice how different the accent, cadence, rhythm, prosody is in comparison to São Paulo Portuguese, but my own accent is pretty much similar to the accent of this young popular poet from a city close to where I was born and where I lived till I was 10 years old:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AsDq7q1qfM

  10. #35
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    TardisBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-02-17
    Posts
    159
    Points
    9,094
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,094, Level: 28
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 256
    Overall activity: 0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    W3a1

    Ethnic group
    Cheesy macaroni
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    In a poem like the following, a very simple one by our Ligurian Nobel Prize Winner for Literature Eugenio Montale, I don't think you need to even understand the words to appreciate its beauty. Here it's interpreted by Luca Zingaretti, whom I think is a great actor.
    I went down a million stairs, at least, arm in arm with you.
    And now that you are not here, I feel emptiness at each step.
    Our long journey was brief, though.
    Mine still lasts, but I don't need
    any more connections, reservations,

    traps, humiliation of those who think reality
    is what we are used to see.


    I went down a millions of stairs, at least, arm in arm with you,
    and not because with four eyes we see better that with two.
    With you I went downstairs because I knew, among the two of us,
    the only real eyes, although very blurred,
    belonged to you.



    Or, La Pioggia nel Pineto, Rain in the Pine Woods, by Gabriele D'Annunzio, who whatever his flaws, was a good poet. You could get drunk on the sounds alone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeW6...qAjvXoyiDDwq_T

    Absolutely gorgeous and enchanting. What a divine language! It really appeals to higher emotions, I think (even for those who don't understand the language).

    I was looking for a French song that I like (I'm not a fan of French pop music), here's one with a lot of "r" sounds. How does it sound to you non-French speakers? I think it's lovely. The "r's" are not too pronounced/harsh. The video clip was partly shot in the Mercantour National Park.



    The Madonna of the North
    And the lake appears
    Brave and strong


    Where nothing breathes


    Body against body
    Sky against eyelashes
    The forest twists
    The horizon sighs


    To love you on the banks of the lake
    Your heart on my body that breathes
    As long as the men watch us
    In love with the shadows and with the worst


    To love you on the banks of the lake
    Your heart on my body that breathes
    As long as the men watch us
    In love with the shadows and with the worst


    I will come back strong
    And surprise the peak
    The river and the gold
    Are taking root


    I cheated death
    The slope is easy
    Hold me again
    My angels are shaky


    If tomorrow you regret
    The scratched mirror
    That the lake reflects to you
    Promise me to forget

  11. #36
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,175
    Points
    31,651
    Level
    54
    Points: 31,651, Level: 54
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 299
    Overall activity: 25.0%


    Country: Spain



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AsDq7q1qfM

    Those vocational professors who instilled in children hobbies such as poetry are wonderful and in this case a good teaching work has in some way achieved a new poet's birth.

    This accent would be better for me



    Vayse meu corachón de mib¿Ya Rab, sise me tornarad?¡Tan mal meu doler li-l-habib!enfermo yed ¿cuándo sanarad?

    This is a Mozarabic jar that Mozarabic is a term invented by historians since they called themselves Latinos. Here some Arabic words are used but before that influence it has that thing of corashon like the old Castilian or the Portuguese and yet as a whole taking away the Arabic words and some affectation almost has sounded to me to modern Spanish more than the old Castilian itself.

  12. #37
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TardisBlue View Post
    Absolutely gorgeous and enchanting. What a divine language! It really appeals to higher emotions, I think (even for those who don't understand the language).

    I was looking for a French song that I like (I'm not a fan of French pop music), here's one with a lot of "r" sounds. How does it sound to you non-French speakers? I think it's lovely. The "r's" are not too pronounced/harsh. The video clip was partly shot in the Mercantour National Park.



    The Madonna of the North
    And the lake appears
    Brave and strong


    Where nothing breathes


    Body against body
    Sky against eyelashes
    The forest twists
    The horizon sighs


    To love you on the banks of the lake
    Your heart on my body that breathes
    As long as the men watch us
    In love with the shadows and with the worst


    To love you on the banks of the lake
    Your heart on my body that breathes
    As long as the men watch us
    In love with the shadows and with the worst


    I will come back strong
    And surprise the peak
    The river and the gold
    Are taking root


    I cheated death
    The slope is easy
    Hold me again
    My angels are shaky


    If tomorrow you regret
    The scratched mirror
    That the lake reflects to you
    Promise me to forget
    I do like it; I think we're on the same wavelength.:) I also don't think it's harsh sounding at all. Even "classic" French songs very sharply enunciated, like an Edith Piaf song, are not harsh to the ear the way German is, for example.

    There's a lot of current Italian music I don't like. No doubt I'll sound like an old fogey, but I really don't like rap, and so many of the current hits in Italy are "rap" songs. From my perspective they've adopted the worst of the American music scene without being discriminating at all. It's not music at all as far as I'm concerned, never mind that it's so often filthy. I personally listen to pop, country, old rock, and Latin music as well as classical music.

    Luckily, the Italian love affair with the ballad form, even if they tinker with it, continues. I liked this year's winner of the San Remo festival who chose to take his song to Eurovision. He's created a really beautiful song imo: lyrics and music and voice. In fact, although I liked it right away, I've been playing it a lot, learning it, and the more I play it the more I like it. I think most of the Eurovision songs are garbage, so I don't really care what the judges or the young viewers think. I just hope his song, and he himself, get more exposure.



    Having said all of that about "urban" music, I thought our winner last year was a good song and well performed, not as grungy and ugly as so many of them are imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEwvUu1dBTs

    Getting back to Spanish songs, I really like this singer too for happy summer music, and yes, I find it perfectly understandable.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNHwNreDp3A

    I think it's fair to say that Italians really like Latin American music, especially in the summer, and Latin Americans really like Italian music. Quite a few of our singers have a big following in Latin America, sometimes bigger than in Italy itself. So big, that they just sing Spanish versions of their Italian songs. It's really easy to do between Italian and Spanish, whereas it would be very hard to do an Italian song in English. You'd have to change all the words and inevitably the meaning would usually change to a certain degree.

    Laura Pausini in Spanish.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Jo...70BC35&index=3

    Italian song reworked for English speakers. The original song is Grande, Grande, Grande by Mina. Shirley Bassey had English lyrics written for the music. It's beautiful, and does convey the essence of the original song, but all the words had to be changed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsooGR166Gk
    Last edited by Angela; 04-03-20 at 00:00.

  13. #38
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I also think so, but I guess those comments come from people who barely know Spanish and notice it's "kind of like Spanish but with a different sound" (Portuguese phonology is really very deviant from Spanish phonology, many more phonemes, different patterns of stress and cadence, a much "stronger", more forcefully articulated prosody - I'd say it's closer to Italian than to Spanish in that respect -, etc.).

    No offense taken! Don't worry, I'm from a place 2,000 km away from São Paulo, and in fact I must say: you nailed it in your comment. The accents of São Paulo (both the state and, in particular, the city) were heavily influenced by Italian immigration from the 1870s to the 1930s (the majority of them - and they were many, more than 1.5 million - went to São Paulo and multiplied rapidly there). Even many Brazilians joke that they can sound like an Italian trying to speak Portuguese (and sometimes failing at that, lol - just joking, guys... well, not so much, lol). There is also other typical accent in the state, probably the "original" one, which is the "caipira" accent mainly found in the interior of the state. I'd say most modern Paulistas speak some dialectal form that is somewhere between that "Italianized" Portuguese and the core "caipira" dialect.

    As for my own dialect, I'm from the northeasternmost part of Northeastern Brazil, which also has its own very distinctive dialect (believe me, we have even a few dictionaries with words and expressions that are only or mostly used here, but unknown in other parts of Brazil). I'm not sure foreigners can readily notice how different the accent, cadence, rhythm, prosody is in comparison to São Paulo Portuguese, but my own accent is pretty much similar to the accent of this young popular poet from a city close to where I was born and where I lived till I was 10 years old:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AsDq7q1qfM
    Hello Ygorcs.
    The Cearense's poet Bráulio Bessa is wonderful. His appearances in the program "Encontro", by Fátima Bernardes, declaiming his wonderful poetry and his sympathetic and charismatic figure, whose trademarks are the northeastern accent and the inseparable hat, enchant all of Brazil. I ask your permission to introduce my accent to the readers of this thread through the Belo Horizonte Pop/Rock Group, "Skank", posting a video clip. We are of the same town (all of them was born and live in Belo Horizonte, like me) and speak Portuguese as I speak, loaded in the guttural "R" (GRRRRR, LOL) and with a little hiss in the "S" (SH) whenever this consonant appears preceded by the vowel "e" and it is immediately followed by the consonants "d" or "t". This is the song "Algo Parecido". They, as you know, are part of the Belo Horizonte music scene that began to emerge in Brazil in the late 60s and 70s, whose precursors were Milton Nascimento, Beto Guedes, Fernando Brandt, Flávio Venturini, Lô Borges, among others. Greetings.

  14. #39
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsTagger Second Class

    Join Date
    20-05-18
    Posts
    114
    Points
    3,308
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,308, Level: 16
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 142
    Overall activity: 99.1%


    Country: Portugal



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone who knows even a bit of Spanish would know this is a sister language, I think. I don't know where people get Russian from unless it's because of the sh sound. That sound is also in some Ligurian words, so I guess "Russian" didn't occur to me.

    No offense, but the man from Sao Paulo sounds like an Italian speaking Portuguese to me: accent, cadence, rhythm, everything. I think I sound like that speaking Portuguese. :)
    The Portuguese accent spoken in Rio de Janeiro is more reminiscent of the Portuguese accent.

  15. #40
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    10 accents of portuguese language around the world. Subtitles in English. If the subtitles do not appear automatically, you can select this option in the video settings. Comparisons with Brazilian Portuguese. Enjoy ;)

    Last edited by Duarte; 08-03-20 at 14:22.

  16. #41
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Can Spanish and Portuguese speakers understand Italian?

    Video narrated and subtitled in Portuguese (São Paulo accent) with the recommendations of Augusto Cury, a Brazilian psychiatrist and writer, for the prevention of COVID-19 infection and also with words of solidarity and self-help for those in quarantine, for the sick and, also, for those who are healthy.



    Original, only subtitles:





    Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

  17. #42
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Tongue twister challenge. Portuguese x Italian.


  18. #43
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Tongue twister challenge. Portuguese x Italian.

    Very cute. :)

    There are some in Italian which aren't that difficult and then there are some which I think are impossible to say quickly for anyone.

    "“Se l’arcivescovo di Costantinopoli si disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse, tu ti
    disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzeresti come si è disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse l’arcivescovo di Costantinopoli?”.

    I had to(If the archbishop of Constantinople renounced his position of archbishop, would you renounce your position as archbishop, as the archbishop of Constantinople renounced his position as archbishop?)


    I had to look it up because even typing it is hard. :)

    Somebody from the Accademia della Crusca, our language policing society, must have made it up.

    English ones are fun too.

    This is the first one I learned.
    Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
    A peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked
    If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
    Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?

    This one is deceptively simple, but all the "sh" versus "s" sounds twists people up.
    She sells seashells by the seashore.

    I know language teachers use them, but I think they're hard for some native speakers too if they have to do them really quickly.

  19. #44
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Very cute. :)

    There are some in Italian which aren't that difficult and then there are some which I think are impossible to say quickly for anyone.

    "“Se l’arcivescovo di Costantinopoli si disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse, tu ti
    disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzeresti come si è disarcivescoviscostantinopolizzasse l’arcivescovo di Costantinopoli?”.

    I had to(If the archbishop of Constantinople renounced his position of archbishop, would you renounce your position as archbishop, as the archbishop of Constantinople renounced his position as archbishop?)


    I had to look it up because even typing it is hard. :)

    Somebody from the Accademia della Crusca, our language policing society, must have made it up.

    English ones are fun too.

    This is the first one I learned.
    Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
    A peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked
    If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
    Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?

    This one is deceptively simple, but all the "sh" versus "s" sounds twists people up.
    She sells seashells by the seashore.

    I know language teachers use them, but I think they're hard for some native speakers too if they have to do them really quickly.
    Yes, Angela, Very cute young people. There are very difficult phrases even for those who speak Portuguese, like this one, if spoken very quickly, LOL:

    ‘O rato roeu as roupas do Rei de Roma’.

    This means. ‘The rat gnawed on the clothes of the King of Rome’.

    There are many guttural Rs together. LOL.

    You are right. It is a lot of fun this game of tongue twister.

    Cheers :)

  20. #45
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Brazilian Portuguese (PT-BR) - Can Spanish and Italian speakers understand?


  21. #46
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Brazilian Portuguese (PT-BR) - Can Spanish and Italian speakers understand?

    Six names on his identity papers! They indeed have to be large. :)

    The Spanish speaker understands better, as I would expect, but she does pretty well. That was one thing I noticed too, how many "false friends" there are.

    Still, one can make oneself understood if one gets some explanation for certain words.

    French would be different. Italian shares more vocabulary with French than any other Romance language, so written French was always very easy for me, but spoken French requires more concentration and practice than Portuguese, and even than Spanish. Brazilian is harder for me. I think it's more pronunciation, though, than vocabulary.

    I've forgotten if women keep their maiden names in Brazil and Portugal. We do in Italy. I was looking at my mother's Italian passport today, the one she had when we came here, and my father's name isn't on it. It's like a courtesy title.

  22. #47
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Six names on his identity papers! They indeed have to be large. :)

    The Spanish speaker understands better, as I would expect, but she does pretty well. That was one thing I noticed too, how many "false friends" there are.

    Still, one can make oneself understood if one gets some explanation for certain words.

    French would be different. Italian shares more vocabulary with French than any other Romance language, so written French was always very easy for me, but spoken French requires more concentration and practice than Portuguese, and even than Spanish. Brazilian is harder for me. I think it's more pronunciation, though, than vocabulary.

    I've forgotten if women keep their maiden names in Brazil and Portugal. We do in Italy. I was looking at my mother's Italian passport today, the one she had when we came here, and my father's name isn't on it. It's like a courtesy title.
    Brazilians can understand Spanish perfectly. The reciprocal is not true. Spanish speakers have a harder time understanding Portuguese. The guy in the video has a terrible country accent, with a terrible retroflex R that hurts in my ears (without prejudice but I personally don't like it). Besides, he said a lot of nonsense. Regarding ‘the bird that emits a characteristic sound and whose meat is consumed in the whole world’, in the Brazil, this bird is called ‘galo’ (for the male bird), 'galinha' (for the female bird) and ‘frango’ (when we want to refer to the meat of these birds). ‘Frango’ is not the male form of 'galinha', as he hinted in the video, confusing the Mexican boy and the Italian girl. ‘Frango’ is a young ‘galo’ or its meat.

    My first surname is from my mother, and my last surname (Duarte) is from my father. All my brothers have the same sequence and that is the common form in Brazil.

    My son inherited my two surnames and, as a courtesy, he has as his first surname one of his mother's surnames, LOL. My wife didn't change her maiden name when she married me. She doesn't have my last name, just my son have.;)
    Last edited by Duarte; 23-04-20 at 05:23.

  23. #48
    Banned Achievements:
    10000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    17,412
    Level
    40
    Points: 17,412, Level: 40
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 638
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - BY143483
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Brazilian Portuguese (PT-BR) - Can Spanish and Italian speakers understand?

    Which italian are the speaking....as i recall only Talian is spoken there
    Check Talian on the net

  24. #49
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends25000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    1,228
    Points
    47,489
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,489, Level: 67
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 861
    Overall activity: 55.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Which italian are the speaking....as i recall only Talian is spoken there
    Check Talian on the net
    Thanks torzio. I taked the link in portuguese wikipedia ;)

    https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talian

  25. #50
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Talian is the Italian they speak in Brazil. The girl in the video is Italian from Verona.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •