Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Massacre in the Pyrenees: Remains of Neolithic immigrants uncovered in modern Spain

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    454
    Points
    8,062
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,062, Level: 26
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 88
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M84

    Country: Uruguay



    2 members found this post helpful.

    Massacre in the Pyrenees: Remains of Neolithic immigrants uncovered in modern Spain

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-58483-9

    table 1:

    CET 1 5–6 n.d. f J1c3 (-) BFT peri and post Phase I 5311–5218 (MAMS 16159) a,bHaak et al. 2015 aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 2  > 20 m? m J1c1b I2a1a post Phase II 3933–3709 (MAMS 16160) aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017 cVillalba-Mouco et al. 2019
    CET 3 30–50 m m pre-T2c1d2 R1b1 BFT peri and post Phase I 5294–5066 (MAMS 16161) a,bHaak et al. 2015 aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 4 3.5–4.5 n.d. m K1a2a F* BFT peri and post Phase I 5294–5068 (MAMS 16162) a,bHaak et al. 2015 aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 5 30–50 m m N1a1a1 I2a1b1 BFT peri and post Phase I 5310–5080 (MAMS 16164) a,bHaak et al. 2015 aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 6 25–40 m? m U3a1 I2a1a post Phase II 3946–3767 (MAMS 16165) aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017 cVillalba-Mouco et al. 2019
    CET 7 3–4 n.d. f V (-) BFT peri and post Phase I 5303–5075 (MAMS 16166) a,bHaak et al. 2015 aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 8 6–8 n.d. n.d. H1 n.d. post Phase III 3350–3101 (MAMS 16167) aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 9  > 30 n.d. n.d. n.d. n.d. post Phase III assigned stratigraphically
    CET 10 50–70 f n.d. K n.d. AHT and BFT peri and post Phase I 5310–5078 (MAMS 16168) aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 11 6–7 f? n.d. n.d. n.d. BFT peri and post Phase I 5312–5219 (MAMS 16163)
    CET 12 30–50 m n.d. T2 n.d. BFT peri and post Phase I 5218–5034 (MAMS 40100) aSzécsényi-Nagy et al. 2017
    CET 13  > 20 n.d. n.d n.d. n.d. AHT and BFT peri and post Phase I assigned stratigraphically
    CET-F22580  > 20 n.d. n.d. n.d. n.d. AHT peri Phase I assigned stratigraphically
    CET-F22567  > 20 n.d. n.d. n.d. n.d. AHT peri Phase I assigned stratigraphically

  2. #2
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,591
    Points
    381,043
    Level
    100
    Points: 381,043, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think we already have some El Trocs samples in our list of ancient samples with K12b coordinates.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,687
    Points
    55,781
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,781, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,269
    Overall activity: 33.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Indeed, these samples are not new.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    454
    Points
    8,062
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,062, Level: 26
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 88
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M84

    Country: Uruguay



    If those samples are old
    I do wonder why they waited till 7th in february 2020 to published this paper..... 🤔

  5. #5
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,687
    Points
    55,781
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,781, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,269
    Overall activity: 33.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    the paper is not about the DNA, it is about the violence

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    454
    Points
    8,062
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,062, Level: 26
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 88
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M84

    Country: Uruguay



    Ok what are your thoughts
    On mtdna j1c % nice number
    Is it typical for european neolithic?...

    p.s
    i see no h3 here
    Last edited by kingjohn; 13-02-20 at 14:30.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    29-04-18
    Posts
    64
    Points
    2,842
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,842, Level: 15
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 208
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Norway



    Hm... You know this dating is at the start or just a little bit before the emergence of the Atlantic Megalith Culture. The people who raised all those standing stones along the Atlantic European coast. And they were a Farmer-WHG mix with WHG DNA very lopsided towards a male contribution. I don't see any young women in the remains. Makes one think.

    EDIT: Especially in light of this thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...244#post593244 and the fact that the middle neolithic was the time of the WHG resurgence. The oldest Atlantic Megaliths also seems to have been in Iberia, the Cromlech of the Almendres. First phase of construction 6000 - 5000 BC I realize I am speculating from far too few data points here, but could we be seeing a snapshot of the early expansion of the Atlantic Megalith Culture here?

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,687
    Points
    55,781
    Level
    73
    Points: 55,781, Level: 73
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,269
    Overall activity: 33.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarl View Post
    Hm... You know this dating is at the start or just a little bit before the emergence of the Atlantic Megalith Culture. The people who raised all those standing stones along the Atlantic European coast. And they were a Farmer-WHG mix with WHG DNA very lopsided towards a male contribution. I don't see any young women in the remains. Makes one think.

    EDIT: Especially in light of this thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...244#post593244 and the fact that the middle neolithic was the time of the WHG resurgence. The oldest Atlantic Megaliths also seems to have been in Iberia, the Cromlech of the Almendres. First phase of construction 6000 - 5000 BC I realize I am speculating from far too few data points here, but could we be seeing a snapshot of the early expansion of the Atlantic Megalith Culture here?
    I agree, I have already made the same observations.
    I guess Iberia, particularly the Almendres Cromlech is the origin of the Atlantic Megalithism and it is dominated by 3 subclades of I2 : I2a1a1-M26/L159, I2a1b-M423 and I2a2a2-Y6098.
    All 3 of them were present in the Iberian and British Neolithic. I2a1b-M423 is also found in megalithic France and megalithic TRB. Both I2a1a1-M26/L159 and I2a1b-M423 are found in Nuragic Sardegna.
    The megalithic was an elite society where male kinship was important.

    I don't know whether there was a link with Els Trocs, but we see the same Y-DNA appearing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •