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Thread: Eurasia became a melting pot during the Holocene

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    Eurasia became a melting pot during the Holocene



    The steppe has been a superhighway from East to West.

    Interesting article by Razib Khan, especially this part:

    * I am aware that in some of the work in David Reich’s lab there is evidence of East Eurasian gene flow into Mesolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe.

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2020/02/16/eurasia-became-a-melting-pot-during-the-holocene/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    The steppe has been a superhighway from East to West.

    Interesting article by Razib Khan, especially this part:

    * I am aware that in some of the work in David Reich’s lab there is evidence of East Eurasian gene flow into Mesolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe.

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2020/02/16/eurasia-became-a-melting-pot-during-the-holocene/

    Good article. Thanks, Jovialis.


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    I wouldn't say it was a melting pot, but yes there was some genes coming true, knowledge as well.
    Not only to Eruope, to SW Asia as well.
    What strikes me is mtDNA X, which is in Native Americans, but appeared in 10 ka Ganj Dareh as well.
    And 9 ka pottery arrived, bot north of the Caspian Sea and in the northern Zagros Mts.
    And there is EDAR in mesolithic Motala. It was there, but it didn't melt over.

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    Would be interesting to see how big and from which kind of population, because if it was not noticed so far it must be quite miniscule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    Would be interesting to see how big and from which kind of population, because if it was not noticed so far it must be quite miniscule.
    I don't know what you mean.
    When you look at West Eurasian data, you see evidence of East Eurasian gene flow into parts of Eastern Europe. Among Lithuanians, it seems to be there. It’s old andwell-mixed, so it doesn’t jump out at you. But it’s there. Even more striking is that many of the Muslim populations in the Near East seem to have some proportion of East Asian ancestry because of the Turkic expansions.

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    The diversity of Srubnaya-Alakulskaya individuals from the eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe was the highest among all published Bronze Age individuals (Table S10), while they also exhibited genetic affinity to northern and northeastern present-day Europeans (Krzewińska et al. 2018). Outgroup f3 statistics (Table S6) show modern Norwegians are the closest match to Srubnaya-Alakulskaya, followed by Lithuanians and Finns, which may explain East Eurasian gene flow into Lithuania via migrations from the Pontic-Caspian steppe.

    Code:
     
    
    Table S10. Diversity estimates in Bronze Age populations.
    Population Individuals used for calculation Diversity SE
    Sweden_BA RISE207-RISE210 0.186025408348 0.00567437465533
    Germany_BellBeaker RISE563-RISE559 0.204954660674 0.00238196360562
    Denmark_BA RISE21-RISE47 0.205913692062 0.00491262074343
    Sintashta RISE392-RISE395 0.207985447414 0.00119819217196
    Hungary_Maros RISE373-RISE374 0.209239516702 0.00207168293923
    Germany_CordedWare RISE446-RISE434 0.210062893082 0.0025514006288
    Mezhovskaya RISE523-RISE525 0.210722601222 0.00138512990074
    Czech_BellBeaker RISE569-RISE566 0.212265317903 0.00181644158497
    Poland_Unetice RISE150-RISE154 0.214606115915 0.00155032965903
    Andronovo RISE500-RISE505 0.214816293497 0.00116680874549
    Hungary_Vatya RISE479-RISE484 0.218826825425 0.00145712335716
    Yamnaya RISE552-RISE548 0.219131012011 0.00124075767074
    Karasuk RISE497-RISE495 0.226530753696 0.00114864113132
    Srubnaya-alakulskaya mur003-mur004 0.227769203871 0.00119314887087
    Cimmerian cim357-cim359 0.228726634869 0.00141566031662
    Scythian scy009-scy303 0.228317840078 0.00119261399261
    Sarmatian chy002-tem003 0.232992238624 0.00123786062818
    Table S6.

    Code:
    Outgroup Pop1 Pop2 f3 std.err Z SNPs
    Yoruba chy001 Norwegian 0.155436 0.001837 84.622 121054
    Yoruba chy001 Lithuanian 0.154615 0.00184 84.045 121030
    Yoruba chy001 Finnish 0.15354 0.001884 81.486 121015
    Yoruba chy001 Estonian 0.15347 0.001832 83.788 121060
    Yoruba chy001 English 0.153355 0.001804 84.994 121046
    Yoruba chy001 Ukrainian_East 0.153211 0.001939 79.023 120941
    Yoruba chy001 Belarusian 0.153125 0.001783 85.9 121032
    Yoruba chy001 Icelandic 0.153081 0.001771 86.422 121080
    Yoruba chy001 Mordovian 0.153047 0.001813 84.433 121057
    Yoruba chy001 Orcadian 0.153036 0.001814 84.343 121086
    Yoruba chy001 Czech 0.152836 0.001827 83.645 121062
    Yoruba chy001 Croatian 0.152733 0.001828 83.549 121032
    Yoruba chy001 Hungarian 0.152677 0.001753 87.09 121134
    Yoruba chy001 Russian 0.152634 0.001741 87.656 121132
    Yoruba chy001 Lezgin 0.151885 0.001801 84.325 121029
    Yoruba chy001 Scottish 0.151829 0.002028 74.873 120825
    Yoruba chy001 French 0.15146 0.001735 87.285 121140
    Yoruba chy001 Basque_French 0.151323 0.001815 83.378 121109
    Yoruba chy001 Basque_Spanish 0.151083 0.001899 79.549 120994
    Yoruba chy001 Chechen 0.150699 0.001769 85.195 121023
    Yoruba chy001 Bergamo 0.150488 0.001797 83.74 121052
    Yoruba chy001 French_South 0.150372 0.001854 81.12 120952
    Yoruba chy001 Albanian 0.150273 0.001858 80.898 120922
    Yoruba chy001 Tuscan 0.150131 0.001807 83.084 120985
    In conclusion, our genomic analyses revealed that both the Bronze Age and Iron Age were highly dynamic periods in the Pontic-Caspian steppe. The time span between 1800 BCE and 400 CE was characterized by mobility, population movements, and replacements, which shaped the complex demography of the region through time. Our results showed that the Western Eurasian steppe nomads were not direct descendants of the Bronze Age Srubnaya-Alakulskaya individuals but shared elements of common ancestry with contribution from different peoples. The early nomads could thus be referred to as a “cultural and chronological horizon” represented by various cultures of the Scythian-Siberian world that was not composed of a genetically homogeneous and/or isolated group. Quite the contrary is observed. We observe little evidence of mobility from the Far East, suggesting that the main source of most Western nomads is likely found in eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe and southern Urals. Thus, we propose that the region, similar to the so-called Mongolian steppe generator of peoples during the Middle Ages, served as the generator of the west nomadic peoples that sustained the western nomadic horizon in the Iron Age.
    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 18-02-20 at 04:40.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I don't know what you mean.
    When you look at West Eurasian data, you see evidence of East Eurasian gene flow into parts of Eastern Europe. Among Lithuanians, it seems to be there. It’s old andwell-mixed, so it doesn’t jump out at you. But it’s there. Even more striking is that many of the Muslim populations in the Near East seem to have some proportion of East Asian ancestry because of the Turkic expansions.
    What do you not understand? If the genetic influence was during the start of the Holocene and wasn't noticed up to now, how big is it really? How would such a sizeable componeent be missed given every other ancestral component we didn't miss up to now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    What do you not understand? If the genetic influence was during the start of the Holocene and wasn't noticed up to now, how big is it really? How would such a sizeable componeent be missed given every other ancestral component we didn't miss up to now?
    We're going by Razib Khan's report of the Reich Lab finding it in Mesolithic hunter gatherers. I guess we just have to wait and see. How do you know it is supposed to be minuscule? You don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    What do you not understand? If the genetic influence was during the start of the Holocene and wasn't noticed up to now, how big is it really? How would such a sizeable componeent be missed given every other ancestral component we didn't miss up to now?
    What do you not understand about the rules of civility???

    Moderate your tone.

    We don't need a Davidski like poster here.

    Clearly, most of it could date from later eras, but you could have just said that politely. When the data is available for the Holocene specifically, we'll know more.

    It's certainly visible, whenever it arrived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What do you not understand about the rules of civility???

    Moderate your tone.

    We don't need a Davidski like poster here.

    Clearly, most of it could date from later eras, but you could have just said that politely. When the data is available for the Holocene specifically, we'll know more.

    It's certainly visible, whenever it arrived.

    It spite me Angela, but I don't find the Bucket's post so unpolite. Maybe bit direct and not too kind, but not in the Davidsky 's way which I find far more scornful and harsher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    What do you not understand about the rules of civility???

    Moderate your tone.

    We don't need a Davidski like poster here.

    Clearly, most of it could date from later eras, but you could have just said that politely. When the data is available for the Holocene specifically, we'll know more.

    It's certainly visible, whenever it arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    It spite me Angela, but I don't find the Bucket's post so unpolite. Maybe bit direct and not too kind, but not in the Davidsky 's way which I find far more scornful and harsher.
    I know how Davidsky is(and it's irritating) and it's ridiculous that anyone would see my reply being remotely as hostile, plus coming from her of all people...

    I literally just asked what he didn't understand, where was I being direct? How round about could I have gone with my question to not be direct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    We're going by Razib Khan's report of the Reich Lab finding it in Mesolithic hunter gatherers. I guess we just have to wait and see. How do you know it is supposed to be minuscule? You don't.
    I never said I did, I just was wondering why if it was so recent it wasn't found before. The miniscule thing was just an idea, obviously the meaning of that is imprecise but I'm not in the position nor do I like to theorize anything precise really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket View Post
    Are you actually kidding me? YOU of all people police my tone? You are one of the most passively hostile person I've seen in a forum setting, don't go off policing other people for things you do worse yourself. And not just to me, to other people as well, always confrontational and hostile, and you are being one right now by imagining hostiltiy where there was literally none.



    I know how Davidsky is(and it's irritating) and it's ridiculous that anyone would see my reply being remotely as hostile, plus coming from her of all people...

    I literally just asked what he didn't understand, where was I being direct? How round about could I have gone with my question to not be direct?
    Give me a freaking break. You were being rude and you know it, or, as Moesan put it, "not too kind", at least. That's your tone in practically all your posts so far.

    Be that as it may, I certainly wouldn't be imagining it now, would I?

    I'm confrontational, as you call it, with people who have an agenda and come here to spout misinformation to support it, people who make racist statements or post links to racist content, people who insult other people and nationalities, and people who are rude and snide to good posters. I never start it, but believe you me I don't take it either, and I definitely finish it.

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    All you had to do was say you were misinterpreted and didn't mean to sound rude.

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    Dear lord!

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