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Thread: What do you think about the latest publication on the Eurogenes blog?

  1. #51
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's all probably more complicated than that, and probably has much more to do with nutrition and environment than with any specific sub-population.

    Light skin : Afontovagora 2, Satsturblia, Natufian I1072, Near East PPN Bon002, Ukraine Meso, Iran EN WC1, Kotias Meso, Norway Hummer Vik Meso, Serbia Meso, Sweden Meso, Latvia Meso, Kennewick man, etc...

    Also, see the very "unpredictable" distribution of blond hair, scattered randomly among ancient samples, until it seems to finally aggregate around the Baltic, notably among GAC people, and derived. There's even a light-skinned, blond-haired, blue-eyed guy in North West Early Neolithic Anatolia (I1580)!

    It's all there : https://genetiker.wordpress.com/pigmentation/
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

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    I still bet at some point Denisova or Neanderthal will turn with fair features.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    I still bet at some point Denisova or Neanderthal will turn with fair features.
    Pigmentation:

    What
    A unique Neanderthal version of the gene MC1R, associated with fair or red hair and lighter skin.

    Why
    A genetic variant that became widespread among modern humans because of the advantages it conferred in areas with less sunlight.

    How
    Interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post565357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Pigmentation:

    What
    A unique Neanderthal version of the gene MC1R, associated with fair or red hair and lighter skin.

    Why
    A genetic variant that became widespread among modern humans because of the advantages it conferred in areas with less sunlight.

    How
    Interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post565357

    Not sure to understand, is this confirmed in some previous studies that some Neanderthals had a unique version of the MC1R gene and that it made some of them fair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    It's all probably more complicated than that, and probably has much more to do with nutrition and environment than with any specific sub-population.

    Light skin : Afontovagora 2, Satsturblia, Natufian I1072, Near East PPN Bon002, Ukraine Meso, Iran EN WC1, Kotias Meso, Norway Hummer Vik Meso, Serbia Meso, Sweden Meso, Latvia Meso, Kennewick man, etc...

    Also, see the very "unpredictable" distribution of blond hair, scattered randomly among ancient samples, until it seems to finally aggregate around the Baltic, notably among GAC people, and derived. There's even a light-skinned, blond-haired, blue-eyed guy in North West Early Neolithic Anatolia (I1580)!

    It's all there : https://genetiker.wordpress.com/pigmentation/

    I agree as a whole; but mutations are at first linked to individual(s) and then to pop (even if not general in it) and need exchanges and crossings to expand and to be selected. After that, yes, climate and diet can do the work, it's evident.
    to others:
    our light skin mutated genes (Europeans) as the East-Asians one, have not been inherited from Neanderthal who had another mutation: it is not very new. ATW, all Neanderthals were not light skinned by force, according to places.
    Concerning the selection of light skin genes, I think the process has been more complicated than believed by someones. Perhaps the selection (beside a possible sexual one) was favoured or hindered by a polygenic problem implying at the same time more than a vital vs letal question ?
    &: apart: I have always thought that a late selection of light skin in North was curious for people living often warmly dressed against cold weather. It seems weather has been a bit warmer at some time there, but not 6 ky ago or sooner?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Not sure to understand, is this confirmed in some previous studies that some Neanderthals had a unique version of the gene and that it made some of them fair?
    MRC1 - MC1R

    ... MRC1 was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy ...

    ... Modern humans display similar mutations of MC1R ...

    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/...and-phenotypes


    I think: MRC1 is the Neanderthal version of the Modern Human MC1R

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    @Salento and others
    Let's recall

    Ancient DNA has been used to show aspects of Neanderthal appearance. A fragment of the gene for the melanocortin 1 receptor (MRC1) was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy: El Sidrón 1252 and Monte Lessini (Lalueza-Fox et al. 2007). MC1R is a receptor gene that controls the production of melanin, the protein responsible for pigmentation of the hair and skin. Neanderthals had a mutation in this receptor gene which changed an amino acid, making the resulting protein less efficient and likely creating a phenotype of red hair and pale skin. (The reconstruction below of a male Neanderthal by John Gurche features pale skin, but not red hair) .How do we know what this phenotype would have looked like? Modern humans display similar mutations of MC1R, and people who have two copies of this mutation have red hair and pale skin. However, no modern human has the exact mutation that Neanderthals had, which means that both Neanderthals and humans evolved this phenotype independent of each other.

    similar # identical
    MRC1 & MC1R are maybe the same thing in different languages? (as DNA and ADN in English and French)
    But no, these mutations were not exactly the same ones, but had the same effect: red hair and lightER skin (not by force very light skin, maybe?: I saw some metis of the blend "white"-"negro" with red hair but not fully white skin surely because other genes or loci (darkening) were at work, inherited from SSA.

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    erratum: from wikipedia
    I wrote : "MRC1 & MC1R are maybe the same thing in different languages? (as DNA and ADN in English and French)..."
    I'm laughable! Here under the explanation: it seems they are 2 different things
    Mannose receptor C-type 1 MC1R (one variant: there are too MC2R, MC3R, MC4R & MC5R) is a protein that in humansis encoded by theMRC1gene
    # MelanoCortin 1 Receptor: MC1R

    But no only me was wrong: MRCA could not be for MelanoCortin 1 Receptor!!! it's typo in the paper report.

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    I'm tired! I crossed my writings:
    put in order: for melanin, only MC1R (or MC2R etc...)
    # MRC1: mannose receptor C 1
    Sorry, too much pancakes this evening, and too much wine? I'm going to bed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    erratum: from wikipedia
    I wrote : "MRC1 & MC1R are maybe the same thing in different languages? (as DNA and ADN in English and French)..."
    I'm laughable! Here under the explanation: it seems they are 2 different things
    Mannose receptor C-type 1 MC1R (one variant: there are too MC2R, MC3R, MC4R & MC5R) is a protein that in humansis encoded by theMRC1gene
    # MelanoCortin 1 Receptor: MC1R

    But no only me was wrong: MRCA could not be for MelanoCortin 1 Receptor!!! it's typo in the paper report.
    I do not have the MC1R variants related to red hair,





    But I have these ones modern variants that influence the final phenotype, according “yourDNAportal”.






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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    erratum: from wikipedia
    I wrote : "MRC1 & MC1R are maybe the same thing in different languages? (as DNA and ADN in English and French)..."
    I'm laughable! Here under the explanation: it seems they are 2 different things
    Mannose receptor C-type 1 MC1R (one variant: there are too MC2R, MC3R, MC4R & MC5R) is a protein that in humansis encoded by theMRC1gene
    # MelanoCortin 1 Receptor: MC1R

    But no only me was wrong: MRCA could not be for MelanoCortin 1 Receptor!!! it's typo in the paper report.
    The example of the world wide more seldom red hair snp in MCR1 shows IMO these trait has most probably multiple sources.

    This is from 23and Me:



    My impression:

    MC1R R51C is most 'Celtic' West European red hair type, connected with Indo-Europeans?

    MC1R D294H is Isles and France/Belgium, Swiss, looks a bit LaTene.

    MC1R R160W is typical NE European (high in Sweden/ Baltic), the parts of Europe with the highest HG level, we already found this along Moltala samples.

    The last one is also my red hair variant (my HG level is that of Sweden/Poland).


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    Thnaks, Northerner, mijn beste vriend (Dutch ancient learner's tempered humor), I saw this maps (found on this forum, I suppose);
    in Australia they found 7 variants associated with to hair on their Euro's, but with different penetrance (efficacity).
    BTW the third variant on the above maps, rather high in percentage there, seem having produced less characterised red hair than the two "Western" ones. But I'm not sure these % reflect accutely the true input of these variants in the pops, because I think there has not been sufficient samples in everyplace to make it sure.
    And I wonder what kind of mutation has Mordwins.
    Goede slaap, slimme en leergierige vriend.

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