Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 43 of 43

Thread: EU Marshall Plan for Europe 2020

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,616
    Points
    44,137
    Level
    64
    Points: 44,137, Level: 64
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 15.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece





    yes dagne,

    before 25 years all Europe had Swedish (EU made) Erickson and Finish (EU made) Nokia
    at the end, Today Nokia is made in India, and Erickson ended to SONY.
    Smart phones brought Apple and iPhone in the begin,
    Half Europeans have iPhone today, which is made in China,
    we made China, and now we curse them,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #27
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,675
    Points
    55,153
    Level
    72
    Points: 55,153, Level: 72
    Level completed: 74%, Points required for next Level: 397
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    yes dagne,

    before 25 years all Europe had Swedish (EU made) Erickson and Finish (EU made) Nokia
    at the end, Today Nokia is made in India, and Erickson ended to SONY.
    Smart phones brought Apple and iPhone in the begin,
    Half Europeans have iPhone today, which is made in China,
    we made China, and now we curse them,
    for 10 years consumers took the benefit of this
    now they are faced with some downsides

    it is not all black and white either
    2 years ago Belgian politicians blocked the takeover of the Belgian elctricity grid by Chinese investors because they would take 'all the know how'
    as if the Chinese don't know how to manage their own electricity grid yet
    the truth is that the Belgian electricity grid has a monopoly and many politicians have very lucrative seats in the board of the electricity distribution companies

    sometimes our own politicians are as corrupt as the Chinese

  3. #28
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,937
    Points
    748,954
    Level
    100
    Points: 748,954, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 45.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Smart phones brought Apple and iPhone in the begin,
    Half Europeans have iPhone today, which is made in China,
    we made China, and now we curse them,
    Actually iPhone's market share is only 27% in Europe, against 72% for Android. Apple's best market in Europe are the UK, Ireland and Norway.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  4. #29
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Dagne's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-04-11
    Location
    Vilnius
    Posts
    573
    Points
    14,174
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,174, Level: 36
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 676
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Ethnic group
    Lithuanian
    Country: Lithuania



    In this situation when everything is made in China we need

    1) free and open China where Chinese workers are protected similarly like in Europeans (the current trend of 996 working hour systems really overuses people) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system)

    2) reduce radically our own consumerism and ban the use of unethically made products

    As a result everything made in China will become more expensive, but that's good if we wanted to reduce consumerism and move the production of strategically important goods out of China.

    In any case, if Europe wants to be safe and act ethically, people have to make sacrifices in terms of their usual lifestyles (in terms food, fashion - clothing, gadgets, etc)

  5. #30
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Dagne's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-04-11
    Location
    Vilnius
    Posts
    573
    Points
    14,174
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,174, Level: 36
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 676
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Ethnic group
    Lithuanian
    Country: Lithuania



    The current economic model is rather faulty - somehow everyone believes that growth is good and recession is bad.

    However, all this increase in practical terms is not always good. Growth with regard to some developments may be very good, however majority of GDP growth, like in China, is about massive expansion/production of goods that will be replaced due to fashion or disposed otherwise.

    I somehow hope that his corona crisis can break the spine of this "overuse" - "overconsume" model.

    Perhaps China awakens - in terms of going back to its culture, developing spiritually, instead of just being CCP lead global factory for everything.
    Last edited by Dagne; 30-03-20 at 19:11.

  6. #31
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,675
    Points
    55,153
    Level
    72
    Points: 55,153, Level: 72
    Level completed: 74%, Points required for next Level: 397
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    China is not a case on it's own.
    Do you have any idea how many people around the world are desperate just to make a living for themselves and their family?
    All those employed in Europe and complaining about their job are obviously not. They have no clue. They see only their own small world.

  7. #32
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    890
    Points
    13,149
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,149, Level: 34
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 201
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I guess the Dutch are getting a 'calvinistic scroodge' image by now.
    IMO it's important to show solidarity within the EU especial in these times. That's besides humanitarian also in the economic self intrest of the Dutch.
    The questions stays how fare reaching this must be. That's a legitimate question.
    But I don't follow the people that are mostly 'right wing' and follow the lesson of Friedman c.s....reduce the public debt!! .The Dutch government has followed this lesson to the max. And now some of those same 'right wingers' are blaming the Dutch government for it....?
    Last edited by Northener; 31-03-20 at 18:12.

  8. #33
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Dagne's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-04-11
    Location
    Vilnius
    Posts
    573
    Points
    14,174
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,174, Level: 36
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 676
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Ethnic group
    Lithuanian
    Country: Lithuania



    Coronavirus epidemic is an emergency situation similar to a war. I don't think economic reasoning under business as usual light can be used in situations like this. Even Friedman himself would agree to this.

    it would be possible to successfully fight against the enemy by joining the forces, because enemy attacks the countries one by one - basically help is needed during the peak periods, when the health care system is overloaded. I think doctors from different countries would be willing to go on such missions, especially if it were organised on voluntarily basis, providing staff with serious bonuses. The leadership in initiating and organising such missions is missing.

    I even looked at the website page of "Doctors Without Borders" if they were doing something in the line. But no.
    Last edited by Dagne; 31-03-20 at 16:54.

  9. #34
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Dagne's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-04-11
    Location
    Vilnius
    Posts
    573
    Points
    14,174
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,174, Level: 36
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 676
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Ethnic group
    Lithuanian
    Country: Lithuania



    European Commission's measures include:
    • Ensure the adequate supply of protective equipment and medical supplies across Europe;
    • Cushion the blow for people’s livelihoods and the economy by applying full flexibility of EU fiscal rules;
    • Set up a EUR 37 billion Coronavirus Response Investment Initiative to provide liquidity to small businesses and the health care sector.
    • Provide a coherent set of guidelines to Member States on border measures to protect citizens’ health while allowing the free flow of essential goods
    • Restrict temporarily non-essential travel to the European Union


    To my mind it is too little. Of course, better than nothing, but why not to organise actual medical teams, when they are really needed in Spain/Italy now, and perhaps other countries, within a month or so, too. Besides, joint research team could also do better in modelling the situation in different countries. National medical associations, epidemiologists could indicate the kind of practical help needed as well as overarching horizontal cooperation.

    Some countries, perhaps, will do fine, because they were initially less connected or put the quarantine measures soon enough. Sweden is a special case - they think their people can keep the distancing without too much restrictions on economy and schooling. Scientifically, it would be very interesting to collect the data and compare developments in different countries so that best containment measures could be developed for the future. There is a lot of space for action for the EU.

  10. #35
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    890
    Points
    13,149
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,149, Level: 34
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 201
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    EU Marshall Plan for Europe 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Coronavirus epidemic is an emergency situation similar to a war. I don't think economic reasoning under business as usual light can be used in situations like this. Even Friedman himself would agree to this.it would be possible to successfully fight against the enemy by joining the forces, because enemy attacks the countries one by one - basically help is needed during the peak periods, when the health care system is overloaded. I think doctors from different countries would be willing to go on such missions, especially if it were organised on voluntarily basis, providing staff with serious bonuses. The leadership in initiating and organising such mission is missing.I even looked at the website page of "Doctors Without Borders" if they were doing something in the line. But no.
    Yes indeed in such situations as said within the EU we must show solidarity. Here on Eupedia I stated that we must join forces to get the serum etc etc. Nevertheless as we are confronted with years of sclerosis.... EU skeptics prevailed.....you can't blame the EU as such to not take enough actions.
    The nations are first at stake now. And all are facing isn some sense the same but also other kind of problems. And I see that within limits there is solidarity. Dutch people are going to IC in Germany. We come near ic system overload. That's first of all national responsibility. We can't export all our 'problems' to the Germans!
    A situation with flying borderless doctors is a nice ideal, but may it's may soberness we have to deal with the situation that is right in our face! And our leaders have to stand up as well and homely they jump across their own shadow. But they stay humans Dagne....all imperfect.

  11. #36
    Guest Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-14
    Posts
    280
    Points
    5,640
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,640, Level: 22
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 410
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Greece



    The good news : We all worry this time. Many goverments (and people) speak about war now, but they dont respond as such, -Or maybe they do?
    It will be interesting since the global scientific institutes, laboratories and companies of a lot of different sectors, struggle imtensive for the medicine, the tests and the medical supplies. That not only is prommising as a hope , but it is the first step to move on. (-Roger...)


    A lot of this " Marshall Plan" will be judged up on this field. -Will be the companies coorporate; or an unethical antagonism will prevail?
    For the moment is quite reliefing that at least from the academic community there is relativelly agreement, until now I believe.
    I expect and wish the same for the goverment and companies allthough occasionally they blur their role...
    Goverments should be goverments and Business should be bussiness. A good businessman is not necessary a man of politics, and vice versa.
    For the case of the bad-men, usually... They condemned to lost in deep oblivion from the history of co-existence (the lucky ones). Or their names are
    synonymous to recall us the remembrance of a "Chimp" that shouts inside us.(humans).

    The "Marshall plan" should be THE strategic plan. Which our strategy first will and must be the recovery (sic) of the public health.
    That's what the urgent situation demands.

  12. #37
    Guest Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-14
    Posts
    280
    Points
    5,640
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,640, Level: 22
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 410
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Greece



    1 members found this post helpful.
    The bad news; At the moment we haven;t got enough masks to hide our hypocrisy.


    I am afraid this time Nemesis will follow.

  13. #38
    Banned Achievements:
    10000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    17,412
    Level
    40
    Points: 17,412, Level: 40
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 638
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - BY143483
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    In this situation when everything is made in China we need

    1) free and open China where Chinese workers are protected similarly like in Europeans (the current trend of 996 working hour systems really overuses people) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system)

    2) reduce radically our own consumerism and ban the use of unethically made products

    As a result everything made in China will become more expensive, but that's good if we wanted to reduce consumerism and move the production of strategically important goods out of China.

    In any case, if Europe wants to be safe and act ethically, people have to make sacrifices in terms of their usual lifestyles (in terms food, fashion - clothing, gadgets, etc)
    The world wide populace strikes 20 plus years ago in very many nations to stop Globalization have proven to be correct......when a nation fails to produce anything it is heading into a "slave" nation ...........a nation too reliant on another

  14. #39
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    17,454
    Points
    379,055
    Level
    100
    Points: 379,055, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    "Coronavirus could be the final straw for the EU"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/coronavirus-could-be-final-straw-for-eu-european-experts-warn?CMP=share_btn_tw


    Too late; you heard it here first. :)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  15. #40
    Guest Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-14
    Posts
    280
    Points
    5,640
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,640, Level: 22
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 410
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I guess the Dutch are getting a 'calvinistic scroodge' image by now.
    IMO it's important to show solidarity within the EU especial in these times. That's besides humanitarian also in the economic self intrest of the Dutch.
    The questions stays how fare reaching this must be. That's a legitimate question.
    But I don't follow the people that are mostly 'right wing' and follow the lesson of Friedman c.s....reduce the public debt!! .The Dutch government has followed this lesson to the max. And now some of those same 'right wingers' are blaming the Dutch government for it....?
    Thank's for that. In turbulant times it seems everything lost their meaning. It is not surprize me, that actually it is no clear anymore what ιs Left
    and what is Right. That is a great indication that something is on crisis...
    I believe that Europe struggle to find a balance between the british empirism, the french rationalism and the german idealism, as someone said.
    At this moments, I personally have only trust, the greek doctors, medics personnel... and God help us, because Allah ran out of "pilaf".


    The "identistits; (spell it right;) kinda alike political movement, which seem very upgraded at many countries, are at the top of hypocrisity level.
    The faulse and utopic option of a wrong patriotism...

  16. #41
    Guest Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-14
    Posts
    280
    Points
    5,640
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,640, Level: 22
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 410
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    The world wide populace strikes 20 plus years ago in very many nations to stop Globalization have proven to be correct......when a nation fails to produce anything it is heading into a "slave" nation ...........a nation too reliant on another
    The interesting is that both right and left, (except radicals) embrace the possible profits of globalization...
    I think that globalization is a process indepedent of any political will. So, none to blame about anything, especially nations.
    That;s how the story goes.


    We have to get over this soon, we have critical issues to confront with. If we have quick respond to that , we better respond to the next challenges.
    We just happen to be here the same time.
    This time will not be forever.
    Consider all, as brothers of "time,"-we have more in common than we have with the past people of our possible heritage.
    We have to act global up on certain issues, and now.

    Coronacrisis is a milestone of our evolution

    (I dont critisize against or judge your opinion)

  17. #42
    Guest Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-14
    Posts
    280
    Points
    5,640
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,640, Level: 22
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 410
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Greece



    Yesterday I read an article which announced the -supposed, putative and fake- will of Merkell to support with a pack of trillion of Euros.
    Of course it was April's fools day... but it is also indicative how cynical sometimes life is.


    I have the sense that civilization among others is:
    When people have a -relatively- common ground for terms and meanings, for "price," "values" and "goods'.
    This is a safe indication that things might go well. If not, usually all the econo/social schemes and constructs collapse.
    That things can happen even to the best families... literally


    Money is a crisis birthchild, and...
    Today is second of April.

  18. #43
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,616
    Points
    44,137
    Level
    64
    Points: 44,137, Level: 64
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 113
    Overall activity: 15.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by ΠΑΝΑΞ View Post

    Coronacrisis is a milestone of our evolution

    it does what the Barbarrians can not do?
    or play with our weakness?

    Justinian plaque,
    Athenean λοιμος
    etc etc
    Last edited by Yetos; 02-04-20 at 23:39.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •