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Thread: Identifying the Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient Roman families through their descendants

  1. #76
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    28-06-15
    Posts
    10


    Country: Australia



    3 members found this post helpful.

    FitzRandolph and Randoll

    This Y-DNA is present in at least one modern lineage:

    R-P312/S116 > Z40481 > ZZ11 > U152/S28 > Z56 > BY3548 > Z43/S366 > Z144 > BY28794 > PF6582 > PF6577 > FGC36902/BY3953 > FGC36897 > FGC36895 > A8380 > FGC41936

    The families that have this (FitzRandolph and Randoll) are genealogically male-line descendants of Count Eudon Penteur (c999-1079), de facto Duke of Brittany from 1040 to 1057.

    FGC41936 is estimated to be a 12th century mutation of A8380, which we would therefore expect to be Eudon's Y-DNA.

    Eudons' children, the Eudonids, claimed descent from the Roman families Rutilius Rufus and Aurelius Cotta, specifically Rutilia, mother of Aurelia, mother of the dictator Gaius Julius Caesar.

    Gildas's war-orphan hero Ambrosius Aurelianus's surname indicates that he was born an Aurelius but adopted into another (unnamed) family, just as Gaius Octavius was adopted by Julius Caesar and became Octavianus.

    Some Aurelii were in Britain in the 200s as evidenced by the gravestone found at Carlisle of Aurelia Aureliana, wife of Ulpius Apolinaris.

    That is particularly interesting as we know from a letter of Sidonius Apollinaris, dated before 470, that one of his friends was 'Riothamus', leader of the Romano-Britons in either Britain or Gaul or both.

    Riothamus is a Latinised Brythonic title, probably meaning high king. It has been speculated that Riothamus is the same person as Ambrosius Aurelianus as they were contemporaries, performed similar roles, and both are described as exceedingly modest.

    It is conceivable that Sidonius and Riothamus may have been related, through that 3rd century married couple who lived near the western extremity of Hadrian's Wall.

    The Aurelii were a prolific family. Many Consuls and Emperors were Aurelii by ancient descent or by adoption. So it is not improbable for branches of the Aurelii to have descendants, even some male-line descendants, today.

    The claim by the Eudonids of descent from the Aurelii is rendered plausible by their living male-line descendants' possession of ancient central Italian Y-DNA.

    Had they fabricated any section of their long medieval or modern pedigree, or if non-paternal events occurred, it would be most likely for them to be R1b-L21, R1b-U106, I1 or I2, like the people who surrounded them during the many centuries they resided in Brittany, Normandy and England.

  2. #77
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    11-08-18
    Location
    Lugo - Galicia
    Posts
    78

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2 L283 BY162321
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Galician
    Country: Spain - Galicia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Hello Maciamo, about this issue. I am J2b2 L283 CTS3617 BY162321 related by Y haplogroup to ancient DNA in Dalmatia 1550ybp (id:I4331). My surname is Taboada, and the origin of this galician surname is related to an ancient noble family called Taboada; the origin of Taboada family is another very ancient noble family called Camba. The Camba family, according with the legendary nobiliar memorials has its origin in a roman consul called Lucio Cambero, who was the founder of Castro Candaz, an ancient castle in Lugo (Galicia). This castle controlled trading along the Mio River. The legend says Lucio Cambero was related to "galician mountaineers" and fought against Trajano Emperator with them, when Lucio Cambero and his "galician mountaineers" were defeated, he came back to Castro Candaz and stayed there. This is clearly a legend but it could hide some truth about the far origins of the Camba family related to Roman militaria, as I suppose my Y haplogroup marker should be related to Roman militaria.

  3. #78
    Regular Member Twilight's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-06-12
    Location
    Clinton, Washington
    Age
    28
    Posts
    931

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-Z56-BY3957
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Ethnic group
    15/32 British, 5/32 German, 9/64 Irish, 1/8 Scots Gaelic, 5/64 French, 1/32 Welsh
    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by GRDTobin View Post
    This Y-DNA is present in at least one modern lineage:

    R-P312/S116 > Z40481 > ZZ11 > U152/S28 > Z56 > BY3548 > Z43/S366 > Z144 > BY28794 > PF6582 > PF6577 > FGC36902/BY3953 > FGC36897 > FGC36895 > A8380 > FGC41936

    The families that have this (FitzRandolph and Randoll) are genealogically male-line descendants of Count Eudon Penteur (c999-1079), de facto Duke of Brittany from 1040 to 1057.

    FGC41936 is estimated to be a 12th century mutation of A8380, which we would therefore expect to be Eudon's Y-DNA.

    Eudons' children, the Eudonids, claimed descent from the Roman families Rutilius Rufus and Aurelius Cotta, specifically Rutilia, mother of Aurelia, mother of the dictator Gaius Julius Caesar.

    Gildas's war-orphan hero Ambrosius Aurelianus's surname indicates that he was born an Aurelius but adopted into another (unnamed) family, just as Gaius Octavius was adopted by Julius Caesar and became Octavianus.

    Some Aurelii were in Britain in the 200s as evidenced by the gravestone found at Carlisle of Aurelia Aureliana, wife of Ulpius Apolinaris.

    That is particularly interesting as we know from a letter of Sidonius Apollinaris, dated before 470, that one of his friends was 'Riothamus', leader of the Romano-Britons in either Britain or Gaul or both.

    Riothamus is a Latinised Brythonic title, probably meaning high king. It has been speculated that Riothamus is the same person as Ambrosius Aurelianus as they were contemporaries, performed similar roles, and both are described as exceedingly modest.

    It is conceivable that Sidonius and Riothamus may have been related, through that 3rd century married couple who lived near the western extremity of Hadrian's Wall.

    The Aurelii were a prolific family. Many Consuls and Emperors were Aurelii by ancient descent or by adoption. So it is not improbable for branches of the Aurelii to have descendants, even some male-line descendants, today.

    The claim by the Eudonids of descent from the Aurelii is rendered plausible by their living male-line descendants' possession of ancient central Italian Y-DNA.

    Had they fabricated any section of their long medieval or modern pedigree, or if non-paternal events occurred, it would be most likely for them to be R1b-L21, R1b-U106, I1 or I2, like the people who surrounded them during the many centuries they resided in Brittany, Normandy and England.
    How old is Ydna R-A8380? It appears that my Haplogroup R-BY97456 is also a child of R1B-BY3957. Its interesting that you list the Haplogroup as connected to a famous Roman. 😃
    R-BY97456
    R-BY97456

  4. #79
    Regular Member Twilight's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-06-12
    Location
    Clinton, Washington
    Age
    28
    Posts
    931

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-Z56-BY3957
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Ethnic group
    15/32 British, 5/32 German, 9/64 Irish, 1/8 Scots Gaelic, 5/64 French, 1/32 Welsh
    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by GRDTobin View Post
    This Y-DNA is present in at least one modern lineage:

    R-P312/S116 > Z40481 > ZZ11 > U152/S28 > Z56 > BY3548 > Z43/S366 > Z144 > BY28794 > PF6582 > PF6577 > FGC36902/BY3953 > FGC36897 > FGC36895 > A8380 > FGC41936

    The families that have this (FitzRandolph and Randoll) are genealogically male-line descendants of Count Eudon Penteur (c999-1079), de facto Duke of Brittany from 1040 to 1057.

    FGC41936 is estimated to be a 12th century mutation of A8380, which we would therefore expect to be Eudon's Y-DNA.

    Eudons' children, the Eudonids, claimed descent from the Roman families Rutilius Rufus and Aurelius Cotta, specifically Rutilia, mother of Aurelia, mother of the dictator Gaius Julius Caesar.

    Gildas's war-orphan hero Ambrosius Aurelianus's surname indicates that he was born an Aurelius but adopted into another (unnamed) family, just as Gaius Octavius was adopted by Julius Caesar and became Octavianus.

    Some Aurelii were in Britain in the 200s as evidenced by the gravestone found at Carlisle of Aurelia Aureliana, wife of Ulpius Apolinaris.

    That is particularly interesting as we know from a letter of Sidonius Apollinaris, dated before 470, that one of his friends was 'Riothamus', leader of the Romano-Britons in either Britain or Gaul or both.

    Riothamus is a Latinised Brythonic title, probably meaning high king. It has been speculated that Riothamus is the same person as Ambrosius Aurelianus as they were contemporaries, performed similar roles, and both are described as exceedingly modest.

    It is conceivable that Sidonius and Riothamus may have been related, through that 3rd century married couple who lived near the western extremity of Hadrian's Wall.

    The Aurelii were a prolific family. Many Consuls and Emperors were Aurelii by ancient descent or by adoption. So it is not improbable for branches of the Aurelii to have descendants, even some male-line descendants, today.

    The claim by the Eudonids of descent from the Aurelii is rendered plausible by their living male-line descendants' possession of ancient central Italian Y-DNA.

    Had they fabricated any section of their long medieval or modern pedigree, or if non-paternal events occurred, it would be most likely for them to be R1b-L21, R1b-U106, I1 or I2, like the people who surrounded them during the many centuries they resided in Brittany, Normandy and England.
    Id be careful about placing high regards on royal legends; much more do ancestors living in the Iron Age/Middle Ages. Before Paternity tests were invented, it was not uncommon for a wife to get pregnant with someone other than her spouse. Ancestry Thrulines does do a bang up job in detecting Adultry but they can only detect as far back as your 6th Great Grandparents.


    However, our closest ancient dna samples were 2 folks whom lived in Roma with the R-BY17346 subclade; one lived between (550 BC-150 BC) and another sample lived between (450 AD-650 AD); (Check my yfull link below in the Sources) :) .
    The common ancestor; R1B-Z56-BY1823 lived roughly in 900 BC, this strongly suggests that our BY3957 Haplogroup descends from a man whom took part and lived in the Villanova Culture.





    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Italics & Romans

    The Bronze Age was brought to Europe by the Proto-Indo-Europeans, who migrated from the North Caucasus and the Pontic Steppe to the Balkans (from circa 6,000 years ago), then went up the Danube and invaded Central and Western Europe (from 4,500 years ago). Italic-speakers, an Indo-European branch, are thought to have crossed the Alps and invaded the Italian peninsula around 3,200 years ago, establishing the Villanova culture and bringing with them primarily R1b-U152 lineages and replacing or displacing a large part of the indigenous people. The Neolithic inhabitants of Italy sought refuge in the Apeninne mountains and in Sardinia. Nowadays, the highest concentration of haplogroup G2a and J1 outside the Middle East are found in the Apeninnes, Calabria, Sicily and Sardinia.Source:https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/ita...ronze_iron_age




    It appears that the closest Italian relatives from YDNA BY3965 is A14978; both subclades are immediate children of R1B-U152-Z56-FGC36903. There is only one; maybe 2 families whom tested positive for the A14978 subclade; one family Immigrated to South America from their native lands of Ancient Lucania, Italy a century ago. The Lucanians were an Italic tribe. Another A14978 family is from Brandenburg Province, Germany.



    R1B-FCG36903 evolved between 868 BC-2 BC and FCG36903>A14978 formed almost immediately after.
    FGC36903>BY3965 evolved later between 342-878 AD and is found exclusively in the British Isles so far.


    R-BY187690 broke off from FGC36903 between 303-1053 AD to join the Jewish community in West Slavic and East Slavic countries.
    As seen through this link.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized




    Source


    https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-BY3965/story


    https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-A14978/story


    https://discover.familytreedna.com/y...BY187690/story


    https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-BY1823/story


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY1823/
    Last edited by Twilight; 21-07-22 at 23:02.

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