Covid Why is mortality from Covid-19 higher in Italy?

Italy was oldest in Europe at 2018
but the tense might Bring Greece or Finland the oldest at 2020
by comparing above tense and 2018 demographics

Population_age_structure_by_major_age_groups%2C_2008_and_2018_%28%25_of_the_total_population%29.png

for Italy at 25% of populace of 61M over 65yo...........makes it the second oldest populace by % in the world after japan at 28% ..................Japan seems safe because its an island and much harder to visit
 
In Australia.....it is compulsory for children to have all their shots or else they cannot go to any form of schooling , this is law............there was issues with this compulsory "shots" from 2017-2018 , when some "modern" families, refused to get their children done
 
Every country in the western world has compulsory vaccinations for children. The question is whether or not the tuberculosis vaccine is included in the list.

As you can see from above, a lot of countries did it but stopped at the end of the 20th century or beginning of the 21st, probably because there was so little TB in the developed world.

The decision could also have been impacted by the fact that it's a "live" virus; a certain percentage of people do come down with TB, especially those who are immunocompromised like HIV patients.
 
Italy's death rate is above the global average largely due to a demographic issue. Asia and Europe are home to some of the world’s oldest populations, those ages 65 and above. At the top is Japan at 28 percent, followed by Italy at 23 percent. For the age group (70+), the mortality rate is 21 percent and the vast majority of coronavirus patients in Italy belong to this age group. Of the 15,751 coronavirus deaths in Italy, approximately 85 percent were patients aged 70 years and older.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/
 
The BCG vaccine was developed in France and was obligatory from 1950 to 2007. Almost every adult has been vaccinated, but the death rate in France is just as high as in Italy.
 
I am posting the order per mortality
and the order per spread
The difference among Italy and Swiss is mortality,
while share simmilar spread,

COUNTRYPopulation /1000Confirmed infecteddeaths upon confirmedConfirmed infected /1000 peopleCurrent Mortality of conf.Mortality 3 APR










1Italy 60318135586171272,24790,12630,1207
1San Marino33279348,45450,12190,1224
2UK675475524261590,81780,11150,0866
3Netherlands 174251958021011,12370,10730,0911
4Spain 46733141942140453,03730,09890,0923
5France 67022109069103281,62740,09470,0911
6Belgium 115162219420351,92720,09170,0659
7EU449507608750499901,35430,08210,0756
8sweden 1030376935910,74670,07680,0553
9Hungary9773817470,08360,05750,0417
10Albania 2877383220,13310,05740,0578
11Hubei585006780332131,15900,0474-
12Romania 1940244171970,22770,04460,0424
13Greece 107681832810,17010,04420,0343
14Severna Mac 2077599260,28840,04340,0286
15Bosnia 3511764330,21760,04320,0295
16Andora76545227,17110,04040,0280
17mainland China14276488275133370,05800,04030,0403
18Denmark 582350712030,87090,04000,0363
19Bulgaria 7000577230,08240,03990,0252
20Swiss8570222538212,59660,03690,0285



and here is after spread

COUNTRYPopulation /1000Confirmed infecteddeaths upon confirmedrecoverActive %Confirmed infected /1000 peopleCurrent Mortality of conf.Mortality 3 APRcurrent Recover of conf.Recover 3 APRdeaths per 10 000 populationEstimated mortality up limEstimated mortality low limestimated deaths *






























1San Marino33279344073,488,45450,12190,12240,14340,085710,3030


2Andora76545223988,817,17110,04040,02800,07160,02342,8947


3Luxenbourg61429704450081,684,83710,01480,01210,16840,03220,7166


4Iceland 3641586655964,384,35710,00380,00300,35250,21530,1648


5Feroe isls52184012034,783,53850,00000,00000,65220,50840,0000


6Spain 46733141942140454320859,663,03730,09890,09230,30440,23863,0054


7Swiss857022253821870457,202,59660,03690,02850,39110,21320,9580


8Italy 60318135586171272439269,382,24790,12630,12070,17990,15862,8395


9Liechtenstein397815528,212,00000,01280,00000,70510,00000,2564


10Belgium 11516221942035415772,101,92720,09170,06590,18730,16261,7671


11France 67022109069103281933772,801,62740,09470,09110,17730,21031,5410


12Austria 890312639243404666,071,41960,01920,01410,32010,15620,2729


13EU4495076087504999013580869,481,35430,08210,07560,30210,19051,1121


 
So if tuberculosis vaccine can not give an aswer,
the last I can imagine is the image described by 2 doctors, at TV
one in Bergamo, and one in Barcelona,
'Anaesthesiologists choose who will live and who will die'
sometimes above 65 could mean no breath support

comparing with nextby to Italy, Swiss and Austria,
Can the high mortality be a result of 'overcrowded' hospitals, crash of system?
bigger demand for the apropriate beds
 
So if tuberculosis vaccine can not give an aswer,
the last I can imagine is the image described by 2 doctors, at TV
one in Bergamo, and one in Barcelona,
'Anaesthesiologists choose who will live and who will die'
sometimes above 65 could mean no breath support

comparing with nextby to Italy, Swiss and Austria,
Can the high mortality be a result of 'overcrowded' hospitals, crash of system?
bigger demand for the apropriate beds

Being on a ventilator is not a guarantee of survival. In fact, most of the people who have died so far were in ICU with ventilators.
 
Being on a ventilator is not a guarantee of survival. In fact, most of the people who have died so far were in ICU with ventilators.

as a matter of facts it's quite scary
most of them are put asleep
and when you ask whether you'll wake up again, no reply
 
Being on a ventilator is not a guarantee of survival. In fact, most of the people who have died so far were in ICU with ventilators.

indeed but if 1 man survive out of 100 when being on a ventilator,
changes numbers and statistics.
the mortality distance from other EU countries could not be so high, (matrix bellow)
and Italy's high mortality could be just a normal point.

the possibily of age,
comparing the 22,6 % of Italy with 21,8% of Greece and 21,4% of Finland and with Japan,
would not make so much difference, except if most aged ones were in the epicenter of spread,

and Greeks are more fat and more smokers than Italians, (even some others)
so we may exclude the 2 above.

other vaccinations and immunities like tuberculosis or thalassaemia,
they don't seem to make such differnce when compared with other countries like France as it mentioned before.

that is the last (for now) someone may think.


offcourse the high mortality point, could be the random extraordinary statistical point,
the one in Greek we say 'εξαιρεση που επιβαιβεωνει τον κανονα', the exception that is needed to certify the normality
but observing UK stats and tense, the extraordinary high mortality point of Italy soon may be just a normal point.

Italy 0,1263
UK0,1115
Netherlands 0,1073
Spain 0,0989
France 0,0947
Belgium 0,0917
 
... imo, the title of the thread is debatable.

Every country has its own standard of assigning causes of death.

In Italy the dead with pre-existing conditions positive with Covid-19 are included in the list,
(unlike some other countries).

Statistics are worthless without a standardized data conformity between Countries.
 
... imo, the title of the thread is debatable.

Every country has its own standard of assigning causes of death.

In Italy the dead with pre-existing conditions positive with Covid-19 are included in the list,
(unlike some other countries).


Confirmed cases have only 2 results, Death or Recovery,
if you write pneumonia, then you must find another body, or ressurect someone else
otherwise the hoax is visual M+R= Confirmed

as for Greece, 1rst degree relatives must sign an information papper of Covid-19 death in family,
so the body to be delivered for funeral.
and is tranfered by special organised for the occasion team and vechicle, with Police company,


Only Lazaros and Jesus ressurect. :)
 

Confirmed cases have only 2 results, Death or Recovery,
if you write pneumonia, then you must find another body, or ressurect someone else
otherwise the hoax is visual M+R= Confirmed

as for Greece, 1rst degree relatives must sign an information papper of Covid-19 death in family,
so the body to be delivered for funeral.
and is tranfered by special organised for the occasion team and vechicle, with Police company,


Only Lazaros and Jesus ressurect. :)

and where the ... is Jesus ?

.... oops, mea culpa :)
 
... imo, the title of the thread is debatable.

Every country has its own standard of assigning causes of death.

In Italy the dead with pre-existing conditions positive with Covid-19 are included in the list,
(unlike some other countries).

Statistics are worthless without a standardized data conformity between Countries.

That's indeed the case. The issue was addressed in yesterday's briefing. It was pointed out that in the U.S. (and in Italy from what I understand), if the patient is a Covid 19 patient, either because of a Covid 19 test or because of the distinctive lung X-Ray, it's considered a "Covid fatality", which is only reasonable.

However, as was also pointed out, there are countries which don't do that, Germany being one.

Also, in some countries it's the hospitals which do the reporting, and they don't add in the deaths at nursing homes.

Finally, the deaths are always a lagging indicator.

We have great statistics for epidemics which are over. You really can't get completely accurate numbers while it's still going on. We would need randomized studies of how many people have been exposed, how many were symptomatic, not at any one point in time but for at least a month, then how many died.

Then the availability of the machines has to be examined, the amount of protective gear the doctors had, etc. Christ, they were using machines with 3D printer parts, and scuba gear. Here, at least, ventilators were sent from California and Oregon on loan to New York because their situation wasn't as dire, and doctors came from around the country to help out.

Last count I saw, more than 60 doctors have died in Lombardia, which echoes what was happening in China.

You can't compare the situation there with countries with a few hundred cases; it's ridiculous.

So, I personally see no point in continuing this discussion.
 
in germany the mortality could be this low because of several factors. i read somewhere that no other country in the world made as many corona tests as germany, relative to the population size. so maybe they were able to find more infected.
another reason could be that most people who are infected in germany are between 20-50 years old. but maybe that is actually also the case in other countries, they just didn't test those age groups that much because they show milder symptoms.
germany has 25'000 respirators compared to 7000 in france and 5000 in italy.


not sure but i believe in germany everyone who dies while having corona counts as a corona fatality. it's just that they do not test someone after the person already died. their argumentation is that someone who shows severe symptoms that could lead to death is most of the time tested before he dies. according to the german officials testing after the death would make little difference. according to italians it could make a difference because people who die at home are not included.
 
I think this rather proves the point:

"In Madrid 4260 of the 4750 people who've died in nursing and disability/mental health homes there in the last month had either contracted Covid or displayed Covid symptomsOnly 781 had been officially listed up until now".
https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/20...s-residencias-de-madrid-en-el-ultimo-mes.html


Same thing may be happening elsewhere, even in Italy. We just don't know, so our speculations are pretty groundless.
 
switzerland has a low mortality rate but many infected/1000 people. maybe it is also because they made more testing? the hospitals there are still fine i think. enough place for patients from other countries.
 
and where the ... is Jesus ?

.... oops, mea culpa :)



:useless: :useless: :useless: :useless:

there is no official report, by Greek hospitals,
since they were not Greeks or live in Greece

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

mea culpa? :unsure:
.
 
Last edited:
I think this rather proves the point:

"In Madrid 4260 of the 4750 people who've died in nursing and disability/mental health homes there in the last month had either contracted Covid or displayed Covid symptomsOnly 781 had been officially listed up until now".
https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/20...s-residencias-de-madrid-en-el-ultimo-mes.html


Same thing may be happening elsewhere, even in Italy. We just don't know, so our speculations are pretty groundless.

that means about 10% of these are still in 'machine', or recovered?
 
in germany the mortality could be this low because of several factors. i read somewhere that no other country in the world made as many corona tests as germany, relative to the population size. so maybe they were able to find more infected.
another reason could be that most people who are infected in germany are between 20-50 years old. but maybe that is actually also the case in other countries, they just didn't test those age groups that much because they show milder symptoms.
germany has 25'000 respirators compared to 7000 in france and 5000 in italy.


not sure but i believe in germany everyone who dies while having corona counts as a corona fatality. it's just that they do not test someone after the person already died. their argumentation is that someone who shows severe symptoms that could lead to death is most of the time tested before he dies. according to the german officials testing after the death would make little difference. according to italians it could make a difference because people who die at home are not included.


that is a factor that many discuss lately,
China and Japan had the ability to use as 8 /1000 population
 

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