Potential R1a-M458 sample discovered in Bronze Age South-West Germany

[Dibran]

Interesting news indeed.
I13780 seems to be downstream. If you hit the info button, you will see that it is positive for R-YP4289 and R-Y126934 under YP263. Besides the Swiss MX265 there is also I25524 (IA La Tene - Hungary) at M458 level (this is the sample reported as PF6155 in the british paper) although it also seems positive for a downstream SNP (R-Z29307).

Yea. The problem is he is no call for YP263 which defines those downstream branches. So its likely to remain R-L1029 given the lack in confidence of placement. If any moderns ever pop up that form a branch with the sample it could change in the future. Recently some of the L1029's with no calls formed downstream branches, and the Pole L1029 with no callsand Slovakian L1029* should form a clade in the next update. Only the German Czech is truly R-L1029* at the moment.

The Hungary La Tene sample that I'd M458 is very Balto-Slavic shifted. Unless these samples are misdated they are outliers.

The L1029 sample if misdated could be late antiquity/early medieval, given his Scando-Germanic admixture. However, as far as I know they were archaeologically dated to La Tene. Not sure how that differs from carbon dating though.

 

[Illyri]

Yea. The problem is he is no call for YP263 which defines those downstream branches. So its likely to remain R-L1029 given the lack in confidence of placement. If any moderns ever pop up that form a branch with the sample it could change in the future. Recently some of the L1029's with no calls formed downstream branches, and the Pole L1029 with no callsand Slovakian L1029* should form a clade in the next update. Only the German Czech is truly R-L1029* at the moment.

I13780 is now classified under YP5267 (downstream of YP263> R-Y18892) on the Ytree live.
L1029's TMRCA should increase accordingly.

 

[Dibran]

I13780 is now classified under YP5267 (downstream of YP263> R-Y18892) on the Ytree live.
L1029's TMRCA should increase accordingly.

Since the sample wasn't properly carbon dated they will not adjust the tmrca I'm afraid. It was already moved downstream.

 

[Illyri]

Since the sample wasn't properly carbon dated

I did not know that. Is there any serious reason to believe that it is younger than iron age ?

 

[Joey37]

On Anthrogenica it is said that the man was buried wearing a Celtic arm-ring, so that would validate the initial date.

 

[Dibran]

I did not know that. Is there any serious reason to believe that it is younger than iron age ?

One would assume based on its Scando-Germanic makeup with 20%ish Balto-Slavoc shift that it could be East Germanic and therefore late antiquity.

However, according to some, even if he is likely an immigrant some generations earlier, he was buried with a Celtic arm ring. Which suggests it could very well be late Iron Age as anticipated.

If it was carbon dated and confirmed, it would have given a huge overhaul to the TMRCA of L1029.