Covid Coronavirus Transmission

Dagne said:
Our Mothers are always right ;)
I also wonder about the transmission in ships due to air conditioning systems. It was so unfair to all those people in the Diamond Princess being told that virus can be passed only by droplets, and they should not be afraid of air conditioning systems, which is not the case as we can see now. The good thing is that, apparently, the seriousness of COVID-19 depends on the amount of virus load one was exposed to, and in case of viruses being passed by air ventilation systems - if it is not in hospital environment packet with patients, the virus load passed by the air ventilation system should not be too bad. This is the statistics of the Diamond Princess

Diamond Princess 712 infected13 deaths644 recovered55 active cases7 serious


I think if the passengers were kept on board longer, both the number of infected people and the fatalities/serious cases were worse due to the fact that more sick passengers were using the same air which was passed throughout the ship to everyone.

To tell the truth, I absolutely dislike air conditioning as I often get allergy from it - start coughing and crying from the dust particles it carries within.
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The air conditioning systems in ships and large building and even large houses are divided into zones. While you might or might not have a giant compressor powering the whole ship or a bunch of smaller ones, it is the air handler or blower that blows air over the coils. Before the air can get to the air handler it goes through a filter. Depending on your filter, you may or may not receive recirculated viruses. So the better the filter the better off you are. Also, the more recently the filter, the better the quality of air. In a giant ship there will be 100's of different zones. The giant dining rooms, casinos and performance amphitheater's is probably the ones that aided in the spread.

Also, the giant fans in some places are much worse than the air-conditioning because they just move air around without any filtering.
 
Angela said:
Off topic a bit, but I had to tell you I just love that! I don't remember it for Carnevale, I'll have to ask my aunts and cousins, but in rural areas they still do it in Italy in early May. We call it Cantamaggio, or Sing May. It has disappeared from our cities. Lucky you if they still do broadly it in Slovenia.

Apennines of Parma

La Spezia, Liguria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeWrm6E-v7Q

As you say, great spreader event singing loudly into each other's faces like this.
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This looks fun, and yes, probably this kind of "turbulences" should be avoided.

In LT quarantine restrictions will be mostly removed for shops. Until now only small shops and those shops who had separate entrance form outside could open. From Monday, even the large malls can open. It is risky. I forwarded LT MoHealth two publications that we discussed here - about early case study research in China which indicated that spread occurs within in-door environment and that the virus in aerosol particles can travel up to 7-8 meters from the source or even further with the help of climate control systems.

I hope business interests are not outweighing the health reasons. Natural air ventilation and wearing masks inside should be made a must.
Up until now, it is required to wear a mask everywhere, but it is sort of hard when doing sports outside. As of three last days Lt is doing most testing per 1000 population in Europe, and found only 28 new cases. (the highest was over 100 cases per day)
 
bigsnake49 said:
The air conditioning systems in ships and large building and even large houses are divided into zones. While you might or might not have a giant compressor powering the whole ship or a bunch of smaller ones, it is the air handler or blower that blows air over the coils. Before the air can get to the air handler it goes through a filter. Depending on your filter, you may or may not receive recirculated viruses. So the better the filter the better off you are. Also, the more recently the filter, the better the quality of air. In a giant ship there will be 100's of different zones. The giant dining rooms, casinos and performance amphitheater's is probably the ones that aided in the spread.

Also, the giant fans in some places are much worse than the air-conditioning because they just move air around without any filtering.
Click to expand...

Well, I am sure there are good air ventilation and conditioning systems, only in practical terms up till now the requirements were not very diligently followed everywhere, especially in an environment where people try to save money by not replacing filters when it is needed...

As of this virus, new stringent requirements for air quality should be put in place, along with practical testing if the filtering system really works as it should and no particles with sizes of the coronavirus should pass through it.

Particle-Sizes-Virus-Labelled.jpg
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/

Besides, architecture should change too - more open air, natural ventilation everywhere, studying spaces outside in schools, sports clubs for doing sports outside, the same for swimming pools. Everything should be done in the open air, inasmuch as it is feasible. I would love it actually. Now I absolutely hate it when conference halls fully depend on climate control systems, and windows are made only for light but not for air, and it is impossible to open them.
 
Some more on how it moves through the air:

[FONT=&quot]"As Lydia Bourouiba of the MIT Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory recently [/FONT]noted[FONT=&quot] in [/FONT]JAMA Insights[FONT=&quot], the basic framework used to represent human-to-human transmission of respiratory diseases such as COVID-19 remain rooted in the tuberculosis era. According to the binary model established in the 1930s, droplets typically are classified as either (1) large globules of the Flüggian variety—arcing through the air like a tennis ball until gravity brings them down to Earth; or (2) smaller particles, less than five to 10 micrometers in diameter (roughly a 10th the width of a human hair), which drift lazily through the air as fine aerosols."[/FONT]

"[FONT=&quot]In a fascinating paper published on March 26th, [/FONT]Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen Emissions: Potential Implications for Reducing Transmission of COVID-19, [FONT=&quot]Bourouiba shows that analyzing a human sneeze is unusually difficult, even by the standards of fluid dynamics (whose mathematics I once [/FONT]modeled[FONT=&quot] in my former capacity as an engineer and computer programmer). That’s because those mucosalivary droplets we emit are cocooned within a warm, moist enveloping gas cloud—Bourouiba calls it a “puff”—that protects the droplets from evaporation and allows even small globules to travel much farther than one might otherwise predict. The binary distinction between large and small droplets remains fundamental: Eventually, the big particles fall while the smaller ones don’t. But during those first fractions of a second when a sneeze (or cough, or shout) is expelled, Bourouiba shows, the enveloping gas sheath allows smaller particles to act, ballistically speaking, as if they were larger."

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The science here is mind-bogglingly complex, because modeling the puff’s behaviour requires that Bourouiba and her team model not only the dynamics of the puff as it travels and dissipates, but also the biophysical and thermodynamic processes unfolding [/FONT]within[FONT=&quot] the gas cloud. But the overall upshot is that such a puff “and its payload of pathogen-bearing droplets of all sizes” can travel seven to eight meters—about four times the length of the six-foot social-distancing buffer zone we’ve all been taught to enforce since mid-March."

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gaining such an understanding is absolutely critical to the task of tailoring emerging public-health measures and workplace policies, because the process of policy optimization depends entirely on which mechanism (if any) is dominant:[/FONT]
  1. If large droplets are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, then the expanded use of masks and social distancing is critical, because the threat will be understood as emerging from the ballistic droplet flight connected to sneezing, coughing, and laboured breathing. We would also be urged to speak softly, avoid “coughing, blowing and sneezing,” or exhibiting any kind of agitated respiratory state in public, and angle their mouths downward when speaking.
  2. If lingering clouds of tiny aerosol droplets are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, on the other hand, then the focus on sneeze ballistics and the precise geometric delineation of social distancing protocols become somewhat less important—since particles that remain indefinitely suspended in an airborne state can travel over large distances through the normal processes of natural convection and gas diffusion. In this case, we would need to prioritize the use of outdoor spaces (where aerosols are more quickly swept away) and improve the ventilation of indoor spaces.
  3. If contaminated surfaces are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, then we would need to continue, and even expand, our current practice of fastidiously washing hands following contact with store-bought items and other outside surfaces; as well as wiping down delivered items with bleach solution or other disinfectants."
  4. https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/co...n-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

Even if the case is number 2, masks are still important. I'm also still going to disinfect surfaces until they figure this out.
 
Has anyone hear, If coronovirus can be transmited via gennital organs?

there are a lot of rumors about that.
 
Yetos said:
Has anyone hear, If coronovirus can be transmited via gennital organs?

there are a lot of rumors about that.
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You mean all those 80+ yo in Northern Italy were running around having sex with each other?
 
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:LOL::LOL:Well, maybe the men are still interested at 80, but the women?

My Neapolitan grandmother in law told me to do like she did when the time came; after menopause she told Joe the shop was closed and told him to sleep in one of the empty kids' rooms. She also looked at the wine bottle to make sure he only had one glass per meal, and he had to smoke his cigars on the porch because she couldn't stand the smell. Meanwhile, she smoked Camels or Lucky Strikes or some god awful thing. :grin:

Who says Italian men always rule the roost in their homes? She'd be very disappointed in me. I'm a door mat compared to her.

Seriously, in the U.S. anyway there's a lot of venereal disease in 55+ communities, or so the media says, so who knows if it's true. Oh, the unintended consequences of Viagra. Poor women. There's hormones for women too, for the ones who need it, but if I believe my friends many more women than men are less interested. Plus, what about your joints? What a way to break your hip. :grin: No way, Jose. Old goats. If I were ever going to change the habits of a lifetime and become promiscuous in my older years, he'd have to be not a day over 40, beautiful, and built or forget about it.:)

He's enough to set my heart pitter pattering just looking at photos. :).
c6778a358f4109d1a7a77678cebf918f.jpg


Love a man who wears a suit well...
660full-daniele-pecci.jpg


Seriously, you're kissing the other person on the mouth, right? So, what difference does it make if you transfer it the other way too?
 
bigsnake49 said:
You mean all those 80+ yo inNorthern Italy were running around having sex with each other?
Click to expand...
:LOL: :LOL:

No
I mean all under 50 years asymptomatic ones, who run for 'holidays'.
and then infect the 80 years old ones.
 
Angela said:
:LOL::LOL:Well, maybe the men are still interested at 80, but the women?

My Neapolitan grandmother in law told me to do like she did when the time came; after menopause she told Joe the shop was closed and told him to sleep in one of the empty kids' rooms. She also looked at the wine bottle to make sure he only had one glass per meal, and he had to smoke his cigars on the porch because she couldn't stand the smell. Meanwhile, she smoked Camels or Lucky Strikes or some god awful thing. :grin:

Who says Italian men always rule the roost in their homes? She'd be very disappointed in me. I'm a door mat compared to her.

Seriously, in the U.S. anyway there's a lot of venereal disease in 55+ communities, or so the media says, so who knows if it's true. Oh, the unintended consequences of Viagra. Poor women. There's hormones for women too, for the ones who need it, but if I believe my friends many more women than men are less interested. Plus, what about your joints? What a way to break your hip. :grin: No way, Jose. Old goats. If I were ever going to change the habits of a lifetime and become promiscuous in my older years, he'd have to be not a day over 40, beautiful, and built or forget about it.:)

He's enough to set my heart pitter pattering just looking at photos. :).
c6778a358f4109d1a7a77678cebf918f.jpg


Love a man who wears a suit well...
660full-daniele-pecci.jpg


Seriously, you're kissing the other person on the mouth, right? So, what difference does it make if you transfer it the other way too?
Click to expand...

The Villages retirement community in Central Florida is an over 55 community. It has the highest VD rate in the US. The old goats don't sheath their sword anymore since they don't have to worry about getting anybody pregnant but they forgot about venereal diseases.
 
Yetos said:
:LOL: :LOL:

No
I mean all under 50 years asymptomatic ones, who run for 'holidays'.
and then infect the 80 years old ones.
Click to expand...

This is getting worse and worse...you mean the under 50s are going home to have sex with 70 and 80 year olds??? Even if it were Daniele Pecci that would be just too...weird. Old enough to be your son is bad enough, but grandson?

No, wait, I get it. They're infected on vacation through sexual contact and then kiss grandma hello on the cheek when they get back. Whew! That's a relief. My dear Yetos, I was starting to wonder about you. :) Well, actually, I guess it's me who has a dirty mind. Oh, dear.

I'll repeat, though. If you're kissing them "passionately" on the mouth you're already infecting each other, so what does it matter if it passes the other way too?

That said, I don't know if it can be passed through intercourse.
 
The damn thing is trying to take all our physical pleasure in each other away, and now even our grief.

It has to be rooted out for ever.
 
Sorry, true, it was about SARs 1.

I could not find a clear message about COVID-19
It seems that some patients may shed coronavirus through tears but few of them. Chinese research of Feb 2020
"Evaluation of coronavirus in tears and conjunctival secretions of patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection "
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339511913_Evaluation_of_coronavirus_in_tears_and_conjunctival_secretions_of_patients_with_SARS-CoV-2_infection
Results: 21 common type and 9 severe type NCP patients were enrolled. Two samples of tear and conjunctival secretions were obtained from the only one patient with conjunctivitis yielded positive RT-PCR results. 58 samples from other patents were all negative.

"He contracted the virus after seeing an asymptomatic glaucoma patient who eventually developed fever and respiratory issues [15][16][17] . This was followed by many focused studies to estimate the frequency and spectrum of different ocular complications associated with COVID-19 [18][19][20][21][22] . However till now no systematic review and meta-analysis has been done to and Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) terms. ...

... Our study is the first to provide and detailed account of ocular manifestation and RT-PCR positivity of tear/conjunctival swab samples in case of COVID-19.Virus shedding through tear mandates the personal protective equipments (N95 masks, goggles, head cover, protective gowns, gloves, shoe cover, alcohol hand sanitizer, surface cleaning) by ophthalmologists and health care workers 19,46,47 as recommended by American academy of ophthalmology 48 and Royal college of ophthalmology 49 "

Overall, I'm sort of tired of finding yet another threatening news so it would be much better to find out how to pass immunity to this virus. It would be wonderful if antibodies could be passed to another person equally as easy as the virus spreads itself.
 
Medical professionals wear face guard masks which protect their eyes as we know that COVID-19 could be aerosol-transmitted, and the tiny particles that carry the virus stay in the air for few hours. If the tiny particles carrying the coronavirus get into the eye, you get infected with the virus.

In general, when a person coughs or sneezes, germs travel about 6 feet, while they can travel much farther to 20 feet away by breathing heavily in a gym and talking or singing loudly. Breathing the same air with a virus carrier in a closed space can get you infected with the coronavirus. The following study by Santarpia et al. (2020) looked into SARS-CoV-2's airborne transmission.

Abstract
Lack of evidence on SARS-CoV-2 transmission dynamics has led to shifting isolation guidelines between airborne and droplet isolation precautions. During the initial isolation of 13 individuals confirmed positive with COVID-19 infection, air and surface samples were collected in eleven isolation rooms to examine viral shedding from isolated individuals. While all individuals were confirmed positive for SARS-CoV-2, symptoms and viral shedding to the environment varied considerably. Many commonly used items, toilet facilities, and air samples had evidence of viral contamination, indicating that SARS-CoV-2 is shed to the environment as expired particles, during toileting, and through contact with fomites. Disease spread through both direct (droplet and person-to-person) as well as indirect contact (contaminated objects and airborne transmission) are indicated, supporting the use of airborne isolation precautions.

Although this study did not employ any size-fractionation techniques in order to determine the size 25 range of SARS-CoV-2 droplets and particles, the data is suggestive that viral aerosol particles are produced by individuals that have the COVID-19 disease, even in the absence of cough. First, in the few instances where the distance between individuals in isolation and air sampling could be confidently maintained at greater than 6 ft, 2 of the 3 air samples were positive for viral RNA. Second, 66.7% of hallway air samples indicate that virus-containing particles were being 30 transported from the rooms to the hallway during sampling activities. It is likely that the positive air samples in the hallway were cause by viral aerosol particles transported by aersonnel exiting the room (16,17). Finally, personal air samplers worn by sampling personnel were all positive for SARS-CoV-2, despite the absence of cough by most patients while sampling personnel were present.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....23.20039446v2
 
The immunity response to SARS-CoV-2 may depend on genetics. https://www.wired.com/story/why-does-covid-19-make-some-people-so-sick-ask-their-dna/
Some articles cautiously mention that the same gene mutation that makes people less susceptible or immune to HIV and bubonic plague may help to undergo COVID-19 in a very light form.
The gene mutation is called CCR5 delta 32
The Geographic Spread of the CCR5 Δ32 HIV-Resistance Allele https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1255740/
pbio.0030339.g001.jpg


The gene mutation is not that common (at least in homozygous carriers who happen to have two copies of the mutation), so it may not be very important in terms of statistics, but still it may have influenced the course of the disease.
 
Dagne said:
The immunity response to SARS-CoV-2 may depend on genetics. https://www.wired.com/story/why-does-covid-19-make-some-people-so-sick-ask-their-dna/
Some articles cautiously mention that the same gene mutation that makes people less susceptible or immune to HIV and bubonic plague may help to undergo COVID-19 in a very light form.
The gene mutation is called CCR5 delta 32
The Geographic Spread of the CCR5 Δ32 HIV-Resistance Allele https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1255740/
pbio.0030339.g001.jpg


The gene mutation is not that common (at least in homozygous carriers who happen to have two copies of the mutation), so it may not be very important in terms of statistics, but still it may have influenced the course of the disease.
Click to expand...

Britain and Belgium would be a bit of an anomaly, but I'm inclined to give it some credence. A paper I posted on the other thread also found some support for this, at a figure of about 50%.

It would certainly be an important factor, if not the whole story.
 
Not buying it yet. Britain, Belgium and Sweden have had plenty of deaths. I need to see statistics on how many contracted the virus, how many had no symptoms, how many developed light symptoms, how many more severe symptoms and how many deaths by age and underlying conditions.
 
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