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Thread: Coronavirus Transmission

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    Coronavirus Transmission

    There are a number of interesting researches dealing with transmission of coronavirus.
    One Chinese study
    Indoor transmission of SARS-CoV-2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....full.pdf+html
    says that

    “among our 7,324 identified cases in China with sufficient descriptions, only one outdoor outbreak involving two cases occurred.”

    Methods: "We collected descriptions of each confirmed case from the local Municipal HealthCommission website of 320 prefectural cities in mainland China, not including Hubei province. Each local Municipal Health Commission announced a description of the confirmed cases each day. The case descriptions generally included age, sex, venue of infection, symptoms, date of symptom onset, hospitalisation, and confirmation and history overxposure. Many described cases also included the individual trajectory and relationship with other confirmed cases, and quite often clusters had already been identified. We consulted the websites nationwide except for those of cities in Hubei province and collected all available data up to 11 February 2020. Data from a few major cities – Beijing, Shanghai, andGuangzhou – were not included in our analysis due to insufficient case descriptions. Case descriptions from Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan were collected from their health authorities. We input the data into a database in a unified format and conducted cross validation to ensure data reliability. A total of 7324 cases with the minimum required descriptions (i.e., the information listed above) were found; these accounted for 66.7% of the 10,980 confirmed non-Hubei cases inChina by 11 February 2020. "


    The findings are very significant, it means that practically there is little change of getting infected while being outside. Surface cleaning and hand washing, too, might not be the way to stop the transmission, it is more about being together in a closed badly ventilated place.

    On the other hand, the findings may reflect transmission routes under lockdown conditions, because China started lockdown outside of Hubei province from the 2nd or 3rd of February, and conditions where such that transmission could mostly happen in at home among related persons.

    Having said that I think it is still true that transmission happens in-doors, if it is home or work environment. The latest cluster of infections in Lithuania is among sewing workshop workers which worked in the same closed space, and it did happen in spite of general precautionary measures. Staying within in-door space for a longer time with at least one infected person is enough to start a large cluster.

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    The paper was posted in the other thread.

    As I mentioned there, the caveat is that the largest cluster in Germany was the result of outdoor festivities for Carnival.

    So, not sure how significant it is.

    See also from that thread...

    "One recent study showed that the 1.5m social distance advised in Belgium may not be enough to protect against the cloud of droplets ejected by the force of a cough or sneeze – droplets which carry the virus and can travel up to 8m.
    Now, a study from the National Institutes of Health demonstrates that the same droplets are expelled – albeit with much less force – when simply speaking.
    The test subjects, all healthy volunteers, were asked to say the words “stay healthy” in a normal speaking voice, into a box. The droplets then passed through a film of laser light, and were photographed and measured.
    The research found that the simple statement produced “numerous droplets” measuring between 20 and 500 micrometres – one micrometre is one-thousandth of a millimetre. Speaking more loudly produced more droplets, and the “th” sound in the word “healthy” produced the most.
    The droplets themselves were smaller than those produced by a sneeze, but about the size which some studies have shown are produced by a cough. Because of the way the experiment was set up, it was not possible to measure the distance travelled by the droplets.
    The most important result of the experiment, apart from demonstrating the existence of droplets produced during normal speech, was the effectiveness of a face mask.
    Many if not most people think the face mask they wear when they go outside is to protect them from infection by the virus, despite the fact that it can enter through the eyes.
    Medical professionals know, and have stressed since the beginning, that a mask is more effective in protecting others, and this study supports that view.


    https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-ne...eads-droplets/



    Takeaways from CV study in Bavaria: Children rarely transmit the virus; virus in feces appears non-infectious, merely touching surfaces doesn't transmit virus unless they're freshly/intensely infected; fresh air disperses CV, sunlight's UV kills it.

    If we took that as incontrovertible fact, we should forget about being so manic about disinfecting surfaces, open all the windows and keep them open, keep teens, not toddlers away from grandparents, stay away from our elderly parents ourselves, and wear masks all the time, as it seems it's airborne. Being outside is safer, but packed venues outside may still spread it.

    My other take homes: stay away from ships. It will also be a long time before I go to a movie theater, mask or not.


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    some things are becoming clear

    a doorknob would not be able to transmit the virus unless someone infected coughs on it just before you touch it
    in normal circumstances 1,5 meter distance is enough, but cyclists who ride 30 km/h are advised to keep 5-10 meter distance behind

    I'm sure one can think of special coincidences by which the virus still transmits, but the most important message is : zero-risk does not exist, unless you force the whole population to stay in the basement untill they perish from hunger and thirst

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    "One recent study showed that the 1.5m social distance advised in Belgium may not be enough to protect against the cloud of droplets ejected by the force of a cough or sneeze – droplets which carry the virus and can travel up to 8m.
    Now, a study from the National Institutes of Health demonstrates that the same droplets are expelled – albeit with much less force – when simply speaking.
    The test subjects, all healthy volunteers, were asked to say the words “stay healthy” in a normal speaking voice, into a box. The droplets then passed through a film of laser light, and were photographed and measured.
    The research found that the simple statement produced “numerous droplets” measuring between 20 and 500 micrometres – one micrometre is one-thousandth of a millimetre. Speaking more loudly produced more droplets, and the “th” sound in the word “healthy” produced the most.
    The droplets themselves were smaller than those produced by a sneeze, but about the size which some studies have shown are produced by a cough. Because of the way the experiment was set up, it was not possible to measure the distance travelled by the droplets.
    The most important result of the experiment, apart from demonstrating the existence of droplets produced during normal speech, was the effectiveness of a face mask.
    Many if not most people think the face mask they wear when they go outside is to protect them from infection by the virus, despite the fact that it can enter through the eyes.
    Medical professionals know, and have stressed since the beginning, that a mask is more effective in protecting others, and this study supports that view.
    I very much agree about it, however it should be taken into consideration that the study you referred to https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763852 relates to indoor environment - so to say, viruses disperse while being outside with natural air movements, while inside, infections follow airflow imposed by ventilation or climate control systems and, if it is not specially filtered (which is done only within special negative pressure rooms) all the infections stays within the system, which is the problem.
    This is from the article you mentioned:

    "Droplets that settle along the trajectory can contaminate surfaces, while the rest remain trapped and clustered in the moving cloud. Eventually the cloud and its droplet payload lose momentum and coherence, and the remaining droplets within the cloud evaporate, producing residues or droplet nuclei that may stay suspended in the air for hours, following airflow patterns imposed by ventilation or climate-control systems".
    Last edited by Dagne; 20-04-20 at 08:04.

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    Regarding festivities of the Carnival - it may mean many thinks not necessarily that people got infected while being outside. As I imagine Carnival in Bavaria, people would sit somewhere nice and cozy, drink and socialise... which is exactly what is needed for the virus to spread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Regarding festivities of the Carnival - it may mean many thinks not necessarily that people got infected while being outside. As I imagine Carnival in Bavaria, people would sit somewhere nice and cozy, drink and socialise... which is exactly what is needed for the virus to spread.
    Still wouldn't want to be standing here when someone with Covid 19 is coughing next to me.

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    :) That's true, where did you get the picture, is it this year's Karneval in Köln? It is a dense crowd, really ...
    I think of Carnival in term of Balls in Theatre Halls


    I've never been to Bavaria, but I suppose it was still rather cold in February, so in addition to outside parades, there must have been many activities in doors too. At least that's how it in my local tradition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    :) That's true, where did you get the picture, is it this year's Karneval in Köln? It is a dense crowd, really ...
    I think of Carnival in term of Balls in Theatre Halls


    I've never been to Bavaria, but I suppose it was still rather cold in February, so in addition to outside parades, there must have been many activities in doors too. At least that's how it in my local tradition.
    I don't know about Germany. In the U.S. and in the areas near me in Italy it's a lot about the parades.

    In New Orleans the celebrations were credited with spreading the virus. I only went to Mardis Gras once, and it was an accident because there was a raging storm in New York so our plane from the Caribbean was diverted there for two days. I'm not a fan. It's about the parades, as I said, but also about a lot of public drunkenness and lewd behavior, i.e. women walking around bare breasted. Not my scene. I almost decked one moron who vomited all over my Bruno Magli shoes.

    There are balls and dinner parties, but that's for the locals, not the tourists or the young.



    In Viareggio it's again mostly about parades and floats either for the young or satirical ones about celebrities or with a decidedly political turn, and there's a lot of children around. No drunkenness, which is a blessing, and the floats are fabulous, but I really don't love standing around in brisk weather watching floats. I guess I'm just not a parade person, especially when packed in like sardines. It makes me a bit claustrophobic. If you start at about 9 minutes in you can see what it's like, and one of the younger themed floats.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke6Kku1O_Wc

    In Venezia, again, parties and balls for the locals, but parades, and for the rest you just concentrate on creating the most beautiful costume conceivable and parading around being gorgeous. :) Now that I could definitely get into...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLRQzlu2Goo

    The Veneto wasn't hit very badly at all; I doubt any virus made it outside those masks. :)

    In Lombardia the big superspreader event was probably the Atalanta/Valencia match. I bet all that shouting and singing was a great conduit for the virus.

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    There is a lot of drinking in New Orleans both inside and outside. Same thing in Miami/Ft Lauderdale and Cleawater FL during spring break. But most of the clusters in Florida were probably a result of New Yorkers escaping from New York and not outdoor spring breakers. There are a lot of clubs in Miami Beach that those spring breakers went after hours.

    I believe that if you're at the beach with a nice little breeze blowing, if you catch coronavirus you are a very unlucky person. On the other hand if you are at a restaurant indoors and you are getting served by a waiter/waitress that went to an overcrowded club the night before, you are sure to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    There is a lot of drinking in New Orleans both inside and outside. Same thing in Miami/Ft Lauderdale and Cleawater FL during spring break. But most of the clusters in Florida were probably a result of New Yorkers escaping from New York and not outdoor spring breakers. There are a lot of clubs in Miami Beach that those spring breakers went after hours.

    I believe that if you're at the beach with a nice little breeze blowing, if you catch coronavirus you are a very unlucky person. On the other hand if you are at a restaurant indoors and you are getting served by a waiter/waitress that went to an overcrowded club the night before, you are sure to get it.
    Coronavirus is detected in water even after wastewater treatment, a precedure that can last according the quantities, sh..load, BOD, from 1 day, usually 2-4 days, (in case of high quantities chemicals added (high cost) and its min 12 hrs), PLUS the time in shewers and transportation.
    considering that areas at sea lvl, are swampy,
    and corona can infect pets, I have a 'feeling' that some pods may be infection source,
    or close to wastewater exit to sea,

    Just suspicious,

    BTW,
    my dog is angry, cause I don't let him smell other dog's pissing corners,
    I am afraid for him. or I just turn to psycho
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    A test of 200 volunteers in Chelsea, Massachusetts showed that 32% had been exposed to the virus instead of the 2% that had been tested in Chelsea. Now this was just a sample it was not totally random sample but it is an indication. None of the 200 people were symptomatic. Take it for what it's worth:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/test-200-...144732703.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Coronavirus is detected in water even after wastewater treatment, a precedure that can last according the quantities, sh..load, BOD, from 1 day, usually 2-4 days, (in case of high quantities chemicals added (high cost) and its min 12 hrs), PLUS the time in shewers and transportation.
    considering that areas at sea lvl, are swampy,
    and corona can infect pets, I have a 'feeling' that some pods may be infection source,
    or close to wastewater exit to sea,

    Just suspicious,

    BTW,
    my dog is angry, cause I don't let him smell other dog's pissing corners,
    I am afraid for him. or I just turn to psycho
    Well, it is difficult to say how the novel coronavirus does in water environment. I think it is always worse when it is in-doors. In Lithuania there was a cluster when a man returned from Denmark and went with his two sons to water spa park. After several days he discovered that his friend whom he travel with from Denmark had COVID. So he tested himself and he had it too (without symptoms).
    The bad twist is that at the same spa, but on a different place, in a restaurant, which is apart from water spa facilities, there was a party organised, where a couple celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary. Some 13 quests got ill, and one man - of 61 who did not had any health problems before - died. The party happened before the quarantine started in Lithuania, and Denmark was not among the list of countries where people had to quarantine themselves after returning from.
    The 40th wedding anniversary party, too, believed they were safe as they did not travel anywhere and did not want to postpone the celebration as many quests were invited from different locations throughout Lithuania, the restaurant was booked...

    BTW
    And about the dog - let him sniff wherever he wants - I think ticks are much more dangerous for dogs than COVID. I read a story that perhaps cats (tigers) can get it but for dogs it is nothing and they won't pass it to human in any case (dogs are too small and the virus cannot multiply in them well so it is OK)
    Anyway, I let my dog be as always :)

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    Well, about the cluster in water park spa - actually, the people who attended the wedding party anniversary stayed overnight, and also used spa, which means they went to variety of pools and saunas (closed small space, dry or humid air). Besides, the man who died was very heavy built, he was a business person, and such men according to Lithuanian statistics are very prone to cardio vascular problems, as they tend to eat a lot of meat, animal fats, get high blood pressure already in forties, but they tend not to go to doctors until it is critical. So it was written in the news article that this person was healthy according to his family members, which most probably mean that he was not complaining, but it is unclear if his actual physical condition was good. He most probably was among the risk group because of coronary artery problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    A test of 200 volunteers in Chelsea, Massachusetts showed that 32% had been exposed to the virus instead of the 2% that had been tested in Chelsea. Now this was just a sample it was not totally random sample but it is an indication. None of the 200 people were symptomatic. Take it for what it's worth:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/test-200-...144732703.html
    Yes, I posted about the paper on the original thread. As I said at the time, I have no idea what the results would show for Boston, but randomized control studies are the only ones that will give accurate information, not studies made up of "volunteers" who perhaps have reason to think they've been exposed, and whether people are actually "asymptomatic" is time dependent. There's no way of knowing whether they're truly asymptomatic unless they're seen and examined at least fourteen days later.

    The only randomized trials I recall having been done are the ones in the hard hit area in Germany and in Lombardia, both of which showed a 15% infection rate.

    So, I think you're right to be cautious. Some of these papers may be worth very little in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    I very much agree about it, however it should be taken into consideration that the study you referred to https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763852 relates to indoor environment - so to say, viruses disperse while being outside with natural air movements, while inside, infections follow airflow imposed by ventilation or climate control systems and, if it is not specially filtered (which is done only within special negative pressure rooms) all the infections stays within the system, which is the problem.
    This is from the article you mentioned:

    "Droplets that settle along the trajectory can contaminate surfaces, while the rest remain trapped and clustered in the moving cloud. Eventually the cloud and its droplet payload lose momentum and coherence, and the remaining droplets within the cloud evaporate, producing residues or droplet nuclei that may stay suspended in the air for hours, following airflow patterns imposed by ventilation or climate-control systems".
    Yes, I get it.

    If you're indoors it hangs around in a cloud for some period of time. If you're outdoors it's dispersed. So, if you're outside you'd have to be standing rather close to the person expelling the droplets while the person is sneezing, coughing, or even shouting or singing, for example. If you're in a packed square you could inhale them from a person close to you. Indoors you could inhale them even from people not so close.

    Illustration: How people can be infected by a current of air propelled by flows of air from air conditioning. (My mother was right once again; air conditioning isn't good for you.:) She wasn't just a saint, she was a "sensitive"; she was right about so many things. Fool that I am I didn't always listen.)

    It makes me wonder how much of the transmission on ships is due to this sort of thing.

    See:
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

    I've already read how despite the lifting of lockdowns people are not returning to restaurant eating in any great numbers in South Korea. This could turn into a lasting disaster for that industry and for all the poor people employed in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Coronavirus is detected in water even after wastewater treatment, a precedure that can last according the quantities, sh..load, BOD, from 1 day, usually 2-4 days, (in case of high quantities chemicals added (high cost) and its min 12 hrs), PLUS the time in shewers and transportation.
    considering that areas at sea lvl, are swampy,
    and corona can infect pets, I have a 'feeling' that some pods may be infection source,
    or close to wastewater exit to sea,

    Just suspicious,

    BTW,
    my dog is angry, cause I don't let him smell other dog's pissing corners,
    I am afraid for him. or I just turn to psycho
    The question is whether those snippets are still contagious. The same goes for the "fomites" which remain on plastic or metal surfaces even after 24 hours.

    Those are things which they have to test. Until they do and say they're no longer virulent, I'm still wiping off my groceries, although not as manically as before. :)

    As for my dog and cat, it's more likely they'd get it from one of us. My cat, especially, never goes outside.

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    In North Italy, also in Slovenia, main carnival event is house-to-house visits, you can check the video below. Regularly there is also community gathering – in bigger cities now usually the main event of custom. It really seems a perfect opportunity for virus spread.

    http://isn3.zrc-sazu.si/etnofolk/Pri...N_2012_561.mp4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Yes, I get it.

    If you're indoors it hangs around in a cloud for some period of time. If you're outdoors it's dispersed. So, if you're outside you'd have to be standing rather close to the person expelling the droplets while the person is sneezing, coughing, or even shouting or singing, for example. If you're in a packed square you could inhale them from a person close to you. Indoors you could inhale them even from people not so close.

    Illustration: How people can be infected by a current of air propelled by flows of air from air conditioning. (My mother was right once again; air conditioning isn't good for you.:) She wasn't just a saint, she was a "sensitive"; she was right about so many things. Fool that I am I didn't always listen.)

    It makes me wonder how much of the transmission on ships is due to this sort of thing.
    Our Mothers are always right ;)
    I also wonder about the transmission in ships due to air conditioning systems. It was so unfair to all those people in the Diamond Princess being told that virus can be passed only by droplets, and they should not be afraid of air conditioning systems, which is not the case as we can see now. The good thing is that, apparently, the seriousness of COVID-19 depends on the amount of virus load one was exposed to, and in case of viruses being passed by air ventilation systems - if it is not in hospital environment packet with patients, the virus load passed by the air ventilation system should not be too bad. This is the statistics of the Diamond Princess



    I think if the passengers were kept on board longer, both the number of infected people and the fatalities/serious cases were worse due to the fact that more sick passengers were using the same air which was passed throughout the ship to everyone.

    To tell the truth, I absolutely dislike air conditioning as I often get allergy from it - start coughing and crying from the dust particles it carries within.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mha View Post
    In North Italy, also in Slovenia, main carnival event is house-to-house visits, you can check the video below. Regularly there is also community gathering – in bigger cities now usually the main event of custom. It really seems a perfect opportunity for virus spread.

    http://isn3.zrc-sazu.si/etnofolk/Pri...N_2012_561.mp4
    Off topic a bit, but I had to tell you I just love that! I don't remember it for Carnevale, I'll have to ask my aunts and cousins, but in rural areas they still do it in Italy in early May. We call it Cantamaggio, or Sing May. It has disappeared from our cities. Lucky you if they still do broadly it in Slovenia.

    Apennines of Parma


    La Spezia, Liguria
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeWrm6E-v7Q

    As you say, great spreader event singing loudly into each other's faces like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Our Mothers are always right ;)
    I also wonder about the transmission in ships due to air conditioning systems. It was so unfair to all those people in the Diamond Princess being told that virus can be passed only by droplets, and they should not be afraid of air conditioning systems, which is not the case as we can see now. The good thing is that, apparently, the seriousness of COVID-19 depends on the amount of virus load one was exposed to, and in case of viruses being passed by air ventilation systems - if it is not in hospital environment packet with patients, the virus load passed by the air ventilation system should not be too bad. This is the statistics of the Diamond Princess



    I think if the passengers were kept on board longer, both the number of infected people and the fatalities/serious cases were worse due to the fact that more sick passengers were using the same air which was passed throughout the ship to everyone.

    To tell the truth, I absolutely dislike air conditioning as I often get allergy from it - start coughing and crying from the dust particles it carries within.
    Take a look at this from the paper's authors:


    I guess the moral of the story is never sit where the air conditioning is blowing on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagne View Post
    Our Mothers are always right ;)
    I also wonder about the transmission in ships due to air conditioning systems. It was so unfair to all those people in the Diamond Princess being told that virus can be passed only by droplets, and they should not be afraid of air conditioning systems, which is not the case as we can see now. The good thing is that, apparently, the seriousness of COVID-19 depends on the amount of virus load one was exposed to, and in case of viruses being passed by air ventilation systems - if it is not in hospital environment packet with patients, the virus load passed by the air ventilation system should not be too bad. This is the statistics of the Diamond Princess



    I think if the passengers were kept on board longer, both the number of infected people and the fatalities/serious cases were worse due to the fact that more sick passengers were using the same air which was passed throughout the ship to everyone.

    To tell the truth, I absolutely dislike air conditioning as I often get allergy from it - start coughing and crying from the dust particles it carries within.
    The air conditioning systems in ships and large building and even large houses are divided into zones. While you might or might not have a giant compressor powering the whole ship or a bunch of smaller ones, it is the air handler or blower that blows air over the coils. Before the air can get to the air handler it goes through a filter. Depending on your filter, you may or may not receive recirculated viruses. So the better the filter the better off you are. Also, the more recently the filter, the better the quality of air. In a giant ship there will be 100's of different zones. The giant dining rooms, casinos and performance amphitheater's is probably the ones that aided in the spread.

    Also, the giant fans in some places are much worse than the air-conditioning because they just move air around without any filtering.

  22. #22
    Elite member Dagne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Off topic a bit, but I had to tell you I just love that! I don't remember it for Carnevale, I'll have to ask my aunts and cousins, but in rural areas they still do it in Italy in early May. We call it Cantamaggio, or Sing May. It has disappeared from our cities. Lucky you if they still do broadly it in Slovenia.

    Apennines of Parma


    La Spezia, Liguria
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeWrm6E-v7Q

    As you say, great spreader event singing loudly into each other's faces like this.
    This looks fun, and yes, probably this kind of "turbulences" should be avoided.

    In LT quarantine restrictions will be mostly removed for shops. Until now only small shops and those shops who had separate entrance form outside could open. From Monday, even the large malls can open. It is risky. I forwarded LT MoHealth two publications that we discussed here - about early case study research in China which indicated that spread occurs within in-door environment and that the virus in aerosol particles can travel up to 7-8 meters from the source or even further with the help of climate control systems.

    I hope business interests are not outweighing the health reasons. Natural air ventilation and wearing masks inside should be made a must.
    Up until now, it is required to wear a mask everywhere, but it is sort of hard when doing sports outside. As of three last days Lt is doing most testing per 1000 population in Europe, and found only 28 new cases. (the highest was over 100 cases per day)

  23. #23
    Elite member Dagne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The air conditioning systems in ships and large building and even large houses are divided into zones. While you might or might not have a giant compressor powering the whole ship or a bunch of smaller ones, it is the air handler or blower that blows air over the coils. Before the air can get to the air handler it goes through a filter. Depending on your filter, you may or may not receive recirculated viruses. So the better the filter the better off you are. Also, the more recently the filter, the better the quality of air. In a giant ship there will be 100's of different zones. The giant dining rooms, casinos and performance amphitheater's is probably the ones that aided in the spread.

    Also, the giant fans in some places are much worse than the air-conditioning because they just move air around without any filtering.
    Well, I am sure there are good air ventilation and conditioning systems, only in practical terms up till now the requirements were not very diligently followed everywhere, especially in an environment where people try to save money by not replacing filters when it is needed...

    As of this virus, new stringent requirements for air quality should be put in place, along with practical testing if the filtering system really works as it should and no particles with sizes of the coronavirus should pass through it.

    https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/...ce-mask-virus/

    Besides, architecture should change too - more open air, natural ventilation everywhere, studying spaces outside in schools, sports clubs for doing sports outside, the same for swimming pools. Everything should be done in the open air, inasmuch as it is feasible. I would love it actually. Now I absolutely hate it when conference halls fully depend on climate control systems, and windows are made only for light but not for air, and it is impossible to open them.

  24. #24
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Some more on how it moves through the air:

    "As Lydia Bourouiba of the MIT Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory recently noted in JAMA Insights, the basic framework used to represent human-to-human transmission of respiratory diseases such as COVID-19 remain rooted in the tuberculosis era. According to the binary model established in the 1930s, droplets typically are classified as either (1) large globules of the Flüggian variety—arcing through the air like a tennis ball until gravity brings them down to Earth; or (2) smaller particles, less than five to 10 micrometers in diameter (roughly a 10th the width of a human hair), which drift lazily through the air as fine aerosols."

    "In a fascinating paper published on March 26th, Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen Emissions: Potential Implications for Reducing Transmission of COVID-19, Bourouiba shows that analyzing a human sneeze is unusually difficult, even by the standards of fluid dynamics (whose mathematics I once modeled in my former capacity as an engineer and computer programmer). That’s because those mucosalivary droplets we emit are cocooned within a warm, moist enveloping gas cloud—Bourouiba calls it a “puff”—that protects the droplets from evaporation and allows even small globules to travel much farther than one might otherwise predict. The binary distinction between large and small droplets remains fundamental: Eventually, the big particles fall while the smaller ones don’t. But during those first fractions of a second when a sneeze (or cough, or shout) is expelled, Bourouiba shows, the enveloping gas sheath allows smaller particles to act, ballistically speaking, as if they were larger."

    "
    The science here is mind-bogglingly complex, because modeling the puff’s behaviour requires that Bourouiba and her team model not only the dynamics of the puff as it travels and dissipates, but also the biophysical and thermodynamic processes unfolding within the gas cloud. But the overall upshot is that such a puff “and its payload of pathogen-bearing droplets of all sizes” can travel seven to eight meters—about four times the length of the six-foot social-distancing buffer zone we’ve all been taught to enforce since mid-March."

    "
    Gaining such an understanding is absolutely critical to the task of tailoring emerging public-health measures and workplace policies, because the process of policy optimization depends entirely on which mechanism (if any) is dominant:
    1. If large droplets are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, then the expanded use of masks and social distancing is critical, because the threat will be understood as emerging from the ballistic droplet flight connected to sneezing, coughing, and laboured breathing. We would also be urged to speak softly, avoid “coughing, blowing and sneezing,” or exhibiting any kind of agitated respiratory state in public, and angle their mouths downward when speaking.
    2. If lingering clouds of tiny aerosol droplets are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, on the other hand, then the focus on sneeze ballistics and the precise geometric delineation of social distancing protocols become somewhat less important—since particles that remain indefinitely suspended in an airborne state can travel over large distances through the normal processes of natural convection and gas diffusion. In this case, we would need to prioritize the use of outdoor spaces (where aerosols are more quickly swept away) and improve the ventilation of indoor spaces.
    3. If contaminated surfaces are found to be a dominant mode of transmission, then we would need to continue, and even expand, our current practice of fastidiously washing hands following contact with store-bought items and other outside surfaces; as well as wiping down delivered items with bleach solution or other disinfectants."
    4. https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/cov...s-and-lessons/


    Even if the case is number 2, masks are still important. I'm also still going to disinfect surfaces until they figure this out.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    Has anyone hear, If coronovirus can be transmited via gennital organs?

    there are a lot of rumors about that.

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