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Thread: Kinship, acquired and inherited status, and population structure at the Early Bronze

  1. #51
    Regular Member Stuvanè's Avatar
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    25-09-16
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    473

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1e

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    3 members found this post helpful.
    Based on Jovialis' coordinates (post #49)

    Distance to: Dodecadk12bStuvanè
    7.10973980 MOK17A
    7.13288862 MOK31
    9.34752374 MOK13
    11.53205966 MOK18A
    11.84456838 MOK27
    12.36716621 MOK32
    12.84523258 MOK10B
    12.89133042 MOK26A
    13.68285789 MOK29A
    13.76925924 MOK20
    14.79943918 MOK14
    15.25246210 MOK12
    16.21934956 MOK15
    18.60279280 MOK24A
    18.79096858 MOK25A
    20.63358427 MOK9B
    21.68185416 MOK16A
    24.69359634 MOK19A
    26.41023097 MOK28A
    28.97581578 MOK21A
    30.24503430 MOK30
    31.47546981 MOK23
    31.62416955 MOK33
    31.96579891 MOK22

  2. #52
    Regular Member
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    10-05-19
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    949

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States



    My distances from coordinates provided by Jovialis (post 49, used a gradiant of 100):

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_Combined
    11.44593378 MOK17A
    17.42200620 MOK31
    22.03547140 MOK13
    23.86057837 MOK18A
    24.96407018 MOK27
    24.99093035 MOK10B
    25.23786045 MOK26A
    25.45299982 MOK32
    26.03796075 MOK29A
    27.12167583 MOK20
    27.80877200 MOK14
    28.22450354 MOK12
    29.35501150 MOK15
    31.76865908 MOK24A
    32.08000779 MOK25A
    33.79543164 MOK9B
    35.05058915 MOK16A
    37.97799494 MOK19A
    39.70144204 MOK28A
    39.71255343 MOK33
    42.30256612 MOK21A
    43.32400836 MOK30
    44.63727590 MOK23
    45.25635535 MOK22

  3. #53
    Regular Member
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    25-06-18
    Posts
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    It would be for the umpteenth time the discovery of hot water. It is obvious that a civilization such as the Greek one, which was able to expand and cover a territory that went from Anatolia to North Africa and the Spanish and French coasts, was genetically a non-homogenous population.

    The typical error of these amateur bloggers passionate about genetics, who some users, with great naivety, consider professionals, is that they lack the most basic historical and archaeological knowledge. Even geneticists have often insufficient historical, archaeological, linguistic and anthropological knowledge, let alone amateur bloggers.




    Davidski is saying this because of the presumed Slavic migration story in Greece. He is angry at geneticists who don't give a damn about this story, as if the whole world should revolve around the Slavs.


    When people stop being interested in ancient history only because of personal issues concerning their own identity, it will always be too late.
    Before the Slavs were the Celts and the Goths, the Vandals and the Avars. Get in line, Slavs! Before those invaders there was all the migration of artisans to Athens and other thriving Greek cities from all over the Med. Even before that all the pockets of surviving Pelasgians (EEFs). Yep there was a lot of admixture.

  4. #54
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,980

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Distance to: Torziok12b
    6.67385945 MOK13
    7.29586184 MOK32
    7.53574150 MOK29A
    7.87324584 MOK26A
    8.30419773 MOK20
    8.79490762 MOK14
    8.84277106 MOK18A
    8.90372956 MOK27
    9.18165562 MOK10B
    9.36960511 MOK31
    10.54345769 MOK15
    10.92896152 MOK12
    11.97106512 MOK17A
    12.97427069 MOK24A
    13.20777423 MOK25A
    15.97026612 MOK16A
    16.24850147 MOK9B
    19.69233099 MOK19A
    20.98221866 MOK28A
    23.70530109 MOK21A
    23.91177325 MOK30
    25.72246295 MOK33
    26.11773727 MOK23
    26.31809454 MOK22




    Distance to: Torziok12b
    3.72852309 35.60% MOK17A + 64.40% MOK32
    4.04195166 67.60% MOK17A + 32.40% MOK30
    4.25372434 59.20% MOK14 + 40.80% MOK17A
    4.34019108 38.80% MOK17A + 61.20% MOK20
    4.51732965 53.80% MOK15 + 46.20% MOK17A
    4.74925299 70.00% MOK17A + 30.00% MOK23
    4.78553473 41.80% MOK16A + 58.20% MOK17A
    4.85535097 65.20% MOK17A + 34.80% MOK28A
    5.08207860 52.40% MOK17A + 47.60% MOK24A
    5.15947700 33.80% MOK17A + 66.20% MOK29A
    5.17663295 70.60% MOK17A + 29.40% MOK22
    5.28975067 39.40% MOK31 + 60.60% MOK32
    5.43340976 64.00% MOK17A + 36.00% MOK19A
    5.46173407 86.80% MOK13 + 13.20% MOK33
    5.48872104 68.40% MOK17A + 31.60% MOK21A
    5.55140447 56.20% MOK13 + 43.80% MOK32
    5.55700743 53.00% MOK17A + 47.00% MOK25A
    5.84829498 33.60% MOK17A + 66.40% MOK26A
    5.96149832 52.80% MOK14 + 47.20% MOK31
    5.99147593 55.60% MOK20 + 44.40% MOK31
    6.04822978 61.40% MOK29A + 38.60% MOK31
    6.12986656 60.00% MOK10B + 40.00% MOK17A
    6.13453409 47.40% MOK29A + 52.60% MOK32
    6.20750626 26.60% MOK10B + 73.40% MOK13
    6.23290019 64.00% MOK13 + 36.00% MOK29A
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  5. #55
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,536

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    (R1b-F1794) R-M269
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Here is the Dodecad Globe 13 coordinates:

    Code:
    MOK9B,0,0.47,0.33,0,4.84,0,37.24,0,2,5.45,48.53,0,1.14
    MOK10B,0,0.61,0.78,0,11.69,0,38.83,0,0,6.1,40.76,0.76,0.46
    MOK12,0,0,0.12,0,6.11,0,42.05,1.47,0.31,6.54,43.01,0,0.41
    MOK13,0,0.39,0.75,0,8.05,0,42.3,0.49,0.69,9.68,37.64,0,0
    MOK14,0,0.78,0.52,0.54,6.68,0,38.85,0.57,0,9.6,42.46,0,0
    MOK15,0,0.11,0.75,0,7.98,0,38.74,0.65,0.1,7.08,44.37,0,0.22
    MOK16A,0,0,0.21,0.45,5.15,0,37.78,0.74,0,5.83,49.77,0.09,0
    MOK17A,0.13,0,0,1.41,12.09,0.89,43.6,0.87,0.53,16.55,23.43,0.17,0.35
    MOK18A,0,0,1.38,0.14,8.32,1.24,41.86,0.89,0,7.43,38.72,0,0
    MOK19A,0,1,0.82,0,6.86,0.43,35.32,0.58,0,2.76,52.21,0,0.02
    MOK20,0,0,0.96,0,8.75,0,37.91,0.36,0.39,8.35,42.92,0.35,0
    MOK21A,0,1.63,0.86,0,4.08,0,35.55,0,0,1.48,56.4,0,0
    MOK22,0,0.25,0.89,0,5.24,1.53,33.36,0.33,0,0,58.39,0,0
    MOK23,0.51,1.24,0.67,0,4.69,0.13,32.78,0,0,0.78,59.21,0,0
    MOK24A,0.51,0,0.9,0,7.87,0,38.15,0,0,5.05,46.37,1.15,0
    MOK25A,0.95,0,0.38,0.45,7.53,0.5,37.87,0.01,0,6.18,46.14,0,0
    MOK26A,0.29,0,0.69,0,8.55,1.05,40,0,0,9.88,39.55,0,0
    MOK27,1.35,0.54,0.55,0,9.46,0,39.96,0.45,0,6.07,41.44,0,0.18
    MOK28A,0.24,0.46,1.07,0.01,6.34,0,34.92,0.75,0,2.13,54.07,0,0
    MOK29A,0.33,0,0.55,0,4.94,0,41.88,0.25,0.5,10.9,40.65,0,0
    MOK30,1.13,0.05,1.28,0.16,2.32,0,34.92,0.31,0,4.13,54.93,0.77,0
    MOK31,0,0.05,0.73,0,10.74,0,43.52,2.31,0,10.52,32.14,0,0
    MOK32,0,1.54,0.4,0.24,12.08,0,36.08,0,0.1,6.19,43.38,0,0
    MOK33,0,0,0,1.09,3.87,0,30.33,0,6.81,9.07,48.83,0,0

  6. #56
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,536

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    (R1b-F1794) R-M269
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Distance to: Jovialis
    9.13749419 MOK17A
    17.67078097 MOK31
    22.07027186 MOK13
    22.96831513 MOK26A
    24.19065935 MOK18A
    24.60202431 MOK29A
    25.60164253 MOK10B
    25.83504596 MOK14
    26.36555897 MOK20
    26.52408340 MOK27
    27.58360201 MOK32
    28.39128387 MOK15
    28.40546778 MOK12
    30.41982413 MOK25A
    31.18597762 MOK24A
    33.42938827 MOK9B
    33.78767231 MOK33
    34.11848473 MOK16A
    37.44198980 MOK19A
    39.43855347 MOK28A
    40.17974863 MOK30
    42.13969388 MOK21A
    44.49260500 MOK22
    44.92748713 MOK23

  7. #57
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Iron Gates HGs still formed a significant percentage of their ancestry.

    Interesting that I2a1 was already there; came to the area way before the Slavs, apparently, yes?

    More steppe than in Bronze Age Italy and certainly than in Bronze Age Greece. Easier access I suppose.

    Certainly no R1a yet, so perhaps only arrived with Slavs.
    I think it's the opposite. Some Slavic-like R1a was already present, while Slavic I2a was practically zero percent.

    It's interesting they lack E-V13, while late antiquity was full of it, and so were the Thracians. Could the E-V13 carriers caused a south-eastern shift?

  8. #58
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    11-11-19
    Location
    Honolulu
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I think it's the opposite. Some Slavic-like R1a was already present, while Slavic I2a was practically zero percent.

    It's interesting they lack E-V13, while late antiquity was full of it, and so were the Thracians. Could the E-V13 carriers caused a south-eastern shift?
    That's what Stamov is suggesting:

    We noticed that IA Thracian samples shared most genetic drift with Neolithic and especially chalcolithic Balkan samples; they however did not
    show continuity with the preceding Copper and Bronze age samples from
    Bulgaria, which is puzzling.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...06.02.446576v1
    We have already discussed that potentially the ultimate origin of E-V13 is in Encrusted Pottery Culture from Western Pannonia. Aspurg has put his arguments why this is the case.

    We know that Bulgarian Neolithic and Chalcolithic had no E-V13 in their ranks, and it's quite logical to assume so without even aDNA which we have leaks now (image below).


  9. #59
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    2,037

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Jovialis’ post #49
    Distance to: Duarte
    11.41465286 MOK26A
    11.85893334 MOK29A
    13.71989431 MOK14
    14.37556608 MOK18A
    14.40763339 MOK10B
    14.51881882 MOK13
    14.84355079 MOK15
    14.87050436 MOK32
    15.19026662 MOK20
    15.63879791 MOK31
    15.65147597 MOK12
    16.27092192 MOK27
    16.59652373 MOK25A
    16.68498726 MOK24A
    18.15247366 MOK17A
    20.15258048 MOK16A
    20.68951425 MOK33
    22.80255907 MOK9B
    24.37376869 MOK19A
    24.45839324 MOK28A
    25.04026358 MOK30
    27.50002909 MOK21A
    28.45475004 MOK22
    29.31282484 MOK23
    Distance to: Duarte
    8.75957231 62.20% MOK18A + 37.80% MOK33
    8.76850845 59.20% MOK31 + 40.80% MOK33
    9.50581125 54.40% MOK17A + 45.60% MOK33
    9.77410889 63.00% MOK13 + 37.00% MOK33
    9.86483447 76.00% MOK26A + 24.00% MOK33
    10.29639858 75.40% MOK29A + 24.60% MOK33
    10.90973430 61.00% MOK12 + 39.00% MOK33
    11.29476280 59.60% MOK27 + 40.40% MOK33
    11.29917487 69.00% MOK26A + 31.00% MOK29A
    11.31295289 9.60% MOK17A + 90.40% MOK26A
    11.38379609 69.20% MOK14 + 30.80% MOK33
    11.62343608 14.40% MOK17A + 85.60% MOK29A
    11.72240240 17.60% MOK10B + 82.40% MOK29A
    11.78009781 88.20% MOK29A + 11.80% MOK31
    12.02661288 68.00% MOK10B + 32.00% MOK33
    12.04271102 65.80% MOK32 + 34.20% MOK33
    12.06443484 64.60% MOK20 + 35.40% MOK33
    12.47802453 69.80% MOK14 + 30.20% MOK17A
    12.51590784 62.20% MOK17A + 37.80% MOK30
    12.58441893 67.60% MOK15 + 32.40% MOK33
    12.71559827 62.80% MOK15 + 37.20% MOK17A
    12.85642720 65.00% MOK14 + 35.00% MOK31
    13.15300526 45.00% MOK17A + 55.00% MOK24A
    13.17291788 44.80% MOK17A + 55.20% MOK25A
    13.18084850 39.60% MOK10B + 60.40% MOK14
    Target: Duarte
    Distance: 8.1806% / 8.18059376
    39.2 MOK18A
    38.3 MOK33
    22.5 MOK17A







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