Ancient genomes from present-day France unveil 7,000 years of its demographic history

Regio X said:
What is clear is that they used different ISOGG versions. For example, if you check CBV95 (Bell Beaker) at S01 and S11, you'll notice that he's assigned differently. R-M269 were R1b1a1a2 in 2016 and 2017, and became R1b1a1b after that. So, I believe all these Bell Beakers were R1b-M269, yes, which would mean they mixed ISOGG versions in the same graph. lol Three out five in that graph I posted would be confirmed R1b-P312 then; one confirmed R1b-L151 and one R1b-M269 (the CBV95). Curiously, most of them are not listed in S01 neither S11.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the three G-L497s anywhere outside S11. At least two look La Tène: BES1249 and ERS83-2. There would be a third G2a in S01, NOR2B2, labeled as Hallstatt C - Early "La Tène", however, he's not in S11, neither I found the related BAM file for further analysis. The first graph I posted in this thread shows only one G2a in La Tène though.

This paper could have been better "organized".
Click to expand...

That's quite an understatement.:)

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.
 
The genotype data of this paper avialable🤔

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB38152

If some experts can run the y haplogroup check for calls😉

P.s
( I also intrested about the e-m78 and e-m215 from berg alsace... which branch are they exactly )
 
Angela said:
^^Well, according to the authors, the steppe men brought women with them to France even if they took local mates (the data provided bears that out from what I can see), but seem to think that's not the case with Spain, where they don't find incoming steppe mtDna.

Michelsberg is one of those cultures where you suddenly get a lot of "resurgence" of hunter-gatherer mtDna. My question is not only where did the E1b1b come from, but where did the women come from? A movement south from the northeast? A refugia in the Alps?

In terms of any "possible" migration into Iron Age France, there's certainly a change in the mtDna. With all the confusion about the exact lineage of the Ydna Beaker to Iron Age I'm not sure if there was any change.
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a bit out of topic, but the Spain case could maybe explain how a Y-R1b BB 's small southern lineage (at first, and then with only males, some "arrow vanguard group") already IE speaker, lost its IE language for other languages more akin to Basque/Aquitanian or Iberian? Just an hypothesis.
 
MOESAN said:
a bit out of topic, but the Spain case could maybe explain how a Y-R1b BB 's small southern lineage (at first, and then with only males, some "arrow vanguard group") already IE speaker, lost its IE language for other languages more akin to Basque/Aquitanian or Iberian? Just an hypothesis.
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I think it's a good hypothesis. :)

It makes sense of results from other papers combined with these: an initial group? with some of their own women, but then predominately males, and this leading to the adoption of "local" languages.

It would go a long way to explaining the issues with language "not" changing in certain areas.
 
bicicleur said:
View attachment 12116
check this figure B - Olalde
first arrival of Bell Beaker in Iberia, some of the very first females were almost 100 % BB
BB females came to Iberia as well
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Thanks for sharing, Bicileur.
I had read Olalde, but I 've no remembering of some of these graphs.
YOu 're right: some first BB's in Iberia had "their" females by them. SO the possible shift in BB'slanguage is still uneasy to explain, finally; all the way, one graph shows they took local females (as we knew already), what is reflected in autosomes partial shift; interesting too: the IA less assimilated Y-R1b's and their females like them, what shows new arrivals surely from North into Iberia after BA; if not they would have been more 'chalcolike' after centuries of crossings. Or I am mistaken?
 
kingjohn said:
The genotype data of this paper avialable������
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB38152
If some experts can run the y haplogroup check for calls������
P.s
( I also intrested about the e-m78 and e-m215 from berg alsace... which branch are they exactly )
Click to expand...


Alf an expert from e3b haplozone site
Checked the e1b1b calls from berg (y)
And the e1b1a
Those e-m78 samples are real was able to verify them :)
The e1b1a not so much :unsure:
I wish he would look on the other 2
e- m215 samples to know there branch( but he didn't):unsure:

His words:
I found the fastq files for the M78 Bergheim, France samples. At present I have looked at BERG157-9, BERG157-3 and BERG79 (ordered most Y sequences to least). The sequencing appears to have targeted M215 and M78 and they are all positive for those.
The M78 calls for each sample are supported by positive results as follows:
BERG157-9: L337/PF1509, PF1554, PF1551, P2, M215, L336/PF1825, L539, M78.
BERG157-3: M96/PF1823, M215, CTS8002, M78.
BERG79: PF1551, M215, M78.
BERG157-9 has no coverage for any L618 or V13 equivalent nor do I see any positive results for any other M78 sub branch at present.
BERG157-3 has the one negative result for CTS3287 but no coverage for any other L618 or V13 equivalent to verify or contradict it.
BERG79 also has no coverage for any L618 or V13 equivalent.


I also have taken a look at the fastq files for the Pont-sur-Seine sample, PSS282, called E1b1a1a1a1c2c. I could not verify this result however and found negative results for the SNPs:
L337/PF1509, M96/PF1823, F1365/PF1558, P2. (Also as would be expected a negative result for L336/PF1825).
 
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What about the La Tene E1b1b, could he check the downstream?
 
Progon said:
What about the La Tene E1b1b, could he check the downstream?
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i am not a member in this site
johan the e-v13 member from this forum is
,maybe he can ask alf there :unsure:
kind regards
Adam

p.s
i am also interested to know there is 1 LA -Tene as you mention and 1 more individual from the berg site
 
This was the study that found I1? Does anybody know if there was I1 in SHG and EHG in places like Sweden, Finland and NW Russia?
 
Brunel thesis🤔
theses.md.univ-paris-diderot.fr/BRUNEL_Samantha_1_vd_20181114.pdf
 
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