Genomic History of Neolithic to Bronze Age Anatolia, N.Levant & S. Caucasus

Definitely not from there:

Distance to:Bigsnake49
18.16825528ETM021
26.05528929IKI032
27.91974391IKI017
28.61514284TIT025
29.83090512ALA009
31.47419260TIT015
32.42911963IKI002
33.08045647IKI024
34.04272610IKI020
35.47691785IKI009
36.47147653TIT014
37.35419387ETM015
38.50329077IKI036
39.52497944CBT018
40.43957715TIT003
40.45515542CBT014
40.49821848CBT001
40.78044997IKI019
41.45173820ART014_PE
41.50249752CBT003
41.50732225IKI038
41.93649723ART014_SR
42.05207010IKI016
42.06470017ALA030
42.35626164ART024_PE

Actually, your ancestors partially come from there. Anatolian and Caucasian is without a doubt in Greeks, as well as other Europeans.

The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2 and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3and Iran4,5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6,7,8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9or Armenia4,9. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature23310


All Europeans have Anatolian farmer from the Neolthic revolution, as well as Iranian-like ancestry, found in Steppe. There is also some additional Iran/Caucasian-like ancestry in Southern Europeans.

z0pgATg.png
[SUB][/SUB]

 
Actually, your ancestors partially come from there. Anatolian and Caucasian is without a doubt in Greeks, as well as other Europeans.



All Europeans have Anatolian farmer from the Neolthic revolution, as well as Iranian-like ancestry, found in Steppe. There is also some additional Iran/Caucasian-like ancestry in Southern Europeans.

z0pgATg.png

Yes, much earlier.
 
Here is mine:

Bildschirmfoto 2020-06-13 um 10.18.33.png

No wonder I am close to him because he is close to Armenians (Caucasian/Iran-like):

Bildschirmfoto 2020-06-13 um 10.33.16.png

What I find interesting while I am close to the Arslantepe and Leyla Tepe/Shulaveri samples you guys are relatively "close" to the samples from Ebla in Syria.

Btw, do we have members who are Greeks from Anatolia ? I guess they will be close to all Anatolian samples.
 
Sorry, I'm with kingjohn on this one.

Obsession is the right word. I'm interested in the Indo-Europeans too but, I'm equally interested in the population genetics of other peoples and periods of history, and more interested in history itself. I'm also passionately interested in, and post about, music and art and theater and language etc. I'm not obsessed with the population genetics of any group, not even Italians, and I only get emotional when someone is t-rolling my people, and that includes both Italians and Americans.

What else to call it but obsession when grown men spend what sometimes seems like every waking moment trying to get every nuance of the origin, spread, genetics, yDna etc. etc. right? Why does it matter so much? Why is it such an emotional issue for some people whether they went to the Near East or not?

I beg to differ too that they're only interested in steppe in Anatolia because they're just interested in linguistics. You can't be that naive, Ygorcs. They want the Mitanni to have brought steppe to other areas of the Near East too, and they used to make it much more clear that the reason was to claim the accomplishments of all those people for their own ancestors. Some idiot once told me the Sumerians were probably Indo-Europeans, a well-respected idiot by others, btw. Why do you think tens of thousands of posts were written trying to prove that the ancient Greeks and Romans were Nordics? Maybe you weren't around then?

Scratch the surface of obsessions and you usually find something emotional or some agenda or something really sinister. I spent a chunk of my professional life looking at the dark underbelly in human beings and I'm telling you it's true. In the case of this issue, it's usually something racist imo, no matter whether it's a Pole or an Italian. They hide it on some sites, but on others, with others of their kind, they let it rip. What they write on the dark net must be completely and utterly insane. I'm glad I don't go there. It might disturb my sleep more than Covid.

I remember R1a/R1b wars over who was "more" or "less" Indo-European. I remember, before it became politically incorrect, the boasting about the "superior" Indo-Europeans, the Conan the Barbarians of pre-history who killed all the men in their path and stole all the women, the celebration of the "blonde-blue-eyed cowboys" of the steppes conquering dark peoples and on and on. As I said, maybe you weren't around, but I was. If it weren't so pathetic it would be laughable. Adolescent fantasies of weak men with a less than adequate manhood usually, like those of Hitler and the maimed and diminutive Goebels, fantasies designed to redress the feelings of ostracism, perhaps, of personal or ethnic humiliation? Who knows.

I've been reading the writings of people like this for ten years, and that's my conclusion. You're welcome to your own opinion.

As to the specifics of these papers, if I'm getting the facts straight, we have an R1b1a2 in southern Anatolia with no steppe, a Barcin Chalcolithic sample in whom your model shows 6% of something found on the steppe, and some Central Asian admixed person or people, who may or may not have been Mitanni, with barely any steppe. As to the latter, given they may have come from BMAC and the Reich Lab paper on India said there was no admixture there, why would they have it?

If that's it, I don't think it's enough to prove an incursion down through the Caucasus from the steppe. It may have happened, or it may not; I don't really care. If it did happen it left nothing behind, not even the language eventually. The "Huns" at least left that, although their other impact was as negligible as that of the steppe in the Near East. All the cultural accomplishments, the "civilization", which is the only important thing, went in the other direction. That's what it has to do with "civilization", that and the fact that for the worst of these kinds of people it's always been about cultural appropriation of the worst kind. Anyway, since you posted your opinion, I thought I'd post mine.

Live and let live, and we'll see what future ancient dna tells us.



Surely you are right here, concerning a lot of forumers. Personally I don't care people should be obsessed by a topic, what spites me is that it pushes often them to permanent biases, maybe proded (I opened my dictionary!) by some superiority/inferiority internal conflict. That said, an obsessed person with good knowledge and intellectual honesty can always bring some fuel to threads, when his obsession makes him digging deeply.
 
You argument dont match because the Progress individuals have nothing of ancestry from this younger Anatolian individual neither. What we could argue with is that wherever it is found, V1636 shows CHG ancestry, wich do not give you it's origin, because of how old this ancestry is. It's not a coincidence if V1636 are both found in North Caucasus and South of it, it means there was a path, but it's more likely that V1636 for most of it's story was more shifted towards CHG, than EHG population while living in North Caucasus prior to the expansion of the Repin culture. It's not a coincidence neither that before the Bronze Age R1b wasn't found anywhere in the Middle-East, not even V88, because what we thought before for years, base on modern distribution was biased.

It's the exact same story with J1 in eastern europe being 100% EHG, but we constantly need to say it again.


Agree, Halfalp
 
Except that the J1 came from the north, and Caucasus fails as the mixing source.

Amazing, also, the presence of J1 on the Pontic Caspian steppe, a type of J1 related to Satsurbia in the Caucasus. I thought it was settled that only women from the south were allowed onto the steppe?

The dominant impression is that females formed the bulk of the Caucasus input among Steppes herders. Y-R1 lineages were the rule, but here and there we see other Y-haplo's, even if rarer. So, some (supposed) foreign males, or at least not males from the "right" clan, could find some place for themselves? All that requires individual statute studies, concerning their true place in the society. Maybe it has been done, but I have some work to read IN DETAILS every new paper, they come quickly now. But in this case, if I understand well, this J1 is weird, so maybe his ancestors were long ago on Steppes?
 
No, it suggests a split from the core of Indo Europeans before the others. This could be explained in two ways.

A: Anatolian and "Steppe Indo European" splitted up somewhere unknown with Steppe Indo European moving into the Steppes. and Proto Anatolian into Anatolia.

B: P-Anatolia split up from the core of the Indo Europeans on the Steppes first and moved early into Anatolia.

Genetics rather supports A. And there is not really any archeological support for B either. Any archeological influence we know of during the Neolithic to early Bronze Age is from South to North.

How exactly does genetics rather supports A?

1) EHG:CHG cline with a rather Yamnaya-like ratio in Progress_Eneolithic and Vonyuchka_Eneolithic already existed as early as ~4,200 BC. EEF only appears in some eastern samples by the time of Yamnaya. (EDIT: In fact according to Anthony in his 2019 article, dozens of Eneolithic Steppe samples still to be published show a probable CHG spread northward into the steppe at least as early as 6200-4500 B.C. with Lower Volga fishing/hunter sites, and it was definitely found even as far up north as the Middle Volga BEFORE 4500 B.C.)

By that time, as other studies and this one which is the object of the present thread show, the Caucasus was already inhabited by heavily mixed Neolithic farmers, so the "pure CHG" without detectable ANF in Eneolithic samples from the Pontic-Caspian steppe do not seem to have come from Transcaucasia at all, at least not in the 4th or early 3rd millennium B.C., which is the timeline when PIE must be sought. CHG either existed in parts of the steppe (especially the southernmost area at the piedmonf of the North Caucasus) since even before the Neolithic (<8000 years ago), or it arrived in the steppe zone really early (before 4200 BC) with an almost entirely CHG population unchanged by ANF, Levant_N and Iran_N farmers' expansions, so probably in the northernmost parts of the Caucasus.

In either case, PIE would be originally a Pontic-Caspian or a North Caucasus language, and Anatolian IE would've had to move southward to be in Anatolia by the time of the EMBA (though my hunch is that the direction of this migration was not straight from the PIE homeland to Anatolia, but something more convoluted).

2) The ANF in the steppe samples up to Yamnaya appears to have come rather from the west (Europe) with EEF than from the south (South Caucasus) with Anatolian/Transcaucasian farmers.

3) The latest stage of PIE right before the first split can't be much earlier than ~6,000 years ago, so PIE must be found in some place at least by about 4500-4000 B.C., and it started to expand from that place to Europe, Central Asia and West Asia after that. If no significant migration from Transcaucasia or Central Asia to the Pontic-Caspian steppe cannot be established through genetics as dated precisely to ~3500-4500 B.C., then it is really unlikely that PIE was spoken elsewhere and only one of its branches ("Steppe PIE") went on to evolve independently in the Pontic-Caspian area and much later split further into other distinct branches.

4) Earliest R1b-M269, with TMRCA 6400 ybp, and R1a-M417, with TMRCA 5400 ybp, are both in Eastern Europe/North Eurasia. The sister clade R1b-M73 is also found in ancient North Eurasia (IIRC in Botai, right?). No R1b-M269 and R1a-M417 found in the Middle East before the LN/Chl so far AFAIK. R1b-V1636 with TMRCA 6,600 ybp is also found in the Eneolithic Steppe (Progress & Vonyuchka) ~6,200 ybp and later in BA Armenia and in LC Anatolia. It's indeed a bit intriguing that all these lineages have a TMRCA between 5400-6600 ybp, which is also exactly the timing when still undivided PIE is supposed to have been spoken.
 
Last edited:
In short: Not every Steppe related signal means Steppe admixture. It is much more likely shared ancestry because it does not exceed the "Steppe" signal we find in the surrounding cultures. That is why Lazaridis and co. wrote in their earlier study that the Hittite sampels can be modeled as Anatolian_Neolithic + something Calcolthic/Bronze Age Caucasus like.

Okay, that is plausible, but if that is so, nothing but shared ancestry widely distributed and diluted through a very broad range of populations, then why is it that Steppe_Eneolithic (Vonyuchka + Progress + Khvalynsk) admixture is picked up only by a few samples from specific areas (mainly Armenia) in the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age samples from West Asia that we have so far? That occurs even in individuals from the same site: most having no "steppe signal" at all, and only some others having a small proportion of that admixture. If it's a signal of widespread and heavily diluted shared ancestry, then it seems like some specific individuals had a distinct origin from others in West Asia and there was a strong cline from closer to EHG to more distant from it, because they have significantly more affinity with the mixture of North Caucasian CHG + EHG found in the Eneolithic Steppe. That is possible, of course, but the fact that this "steppe-like signal" is not found in all or even most of the samples indicate to me that there is something else going on and involving earlier population movements and admixing events.
 
Target
Distance​
GEO_CHGIRN_Ganj_Dareh_NKAZ_BotaiLevant_NatufianMAR_ENRUS_Karelia_HGRUS_Khvalynsk_EnRUS_Progress_EnRUS_Vonyuchka_EnTKM_Geoksyur_NTUR_Barcin_NWHG
ARM_Areni_C:I1407
0,0249516​
5,4​
11​
1,8​
0,4
22
14,8​
44,6​
ARM_Areni_C:I1631
0,0347996​
14,2​
1,8​
7,8​
14,6
12,2
11​
38,4​
ARM_Areni_C:I1632
0,0225098​
8,6​
6,8​
4,2​
19,2
0
16​
45,2​
ARM_Areni_C:I1634
0,0269163​
6,6​
3,2​
17,4
6,2
23,8​
42,8​
ARM_LBA:RISE397
0,0333375​
9​
22,6
0
29,6​
38,8​
ARM_LBA:RISE407
0,0233147​
14​
9​
2,4​
0
42,2
32,4​
ARM_LBA:RISE412
0,0417455​
28​
0,4​
16​
26,4
0
8,8​
20,4​
ARM_Lchashen_MBAA31
0,0212044​
19​
4​
3​
8,4​
5,8
15,6
16,8​
27,4​
ARM_Lchashen_MBAA35
0,0313758​
16,8​
0,8​
5,4​
19,2
0
25,2​
32,6​
ARM_MBA:I1656
0,0198216​
23,2​
6​
1,8​
0
27,2
9,6​
32,2​
ARM_MBA:RISE423
0,0331355​
14,4​
10,6​
6,8​
0
35
1,4​
31,8​
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002
0,0518553​
4,6​
37,6​
4,6​
0
2,6
50,6​
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001
0,0306184​
20,8​
10,2​
11,6​
0
0
13​
44,4​
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:pOT002
0,0362791​
26,4​
24,4​
6,8​
0
0
42,4​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA001
0,0349108​
5,2​
28,4​
17,4​
0
0
49​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA002
0,0323577​
6,8​
27,6​
17,2​
0
0
48,4​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA004
0,0401359​
10,2​
24,8​
22,2​
0
0
42,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA008
0,0472625​
6,8​
26,2​
20,8​
0
0
46,2​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA011
0,0383097​
4,6​
29,2​
19​
0
0
47,2​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA013
0,0338115​
10​
23,4​
16,6​
0
0
50​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA014
0,0382207​
8,4​
26,4​
21,4​
0
0
43,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA015
0,0433827​
7,4​
27​
22,4​
0
0
43,2​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA016
0,0414875​
13,8​
24,2​
11,4​
0
0
50,6​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA017
0,0451558​
4,8​
23,2​
26,2​
0
0
45,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA018
0,0316135​
16​
19,2​
13,2​
0
0
7,2​
44,4​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA020
0,0355821​
10,8​
13,2​
18,4​
0
0
18,4​
39,2​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA023
0,0493888​
4,6​
24,2​
18,6​
0
0
52,6​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA024
0,0498647​
4​
32,2​
16​
0
0
47,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA025
0,0389132​
13,8​
21,2​
16,2​
0
0
1,8​
47​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA026
0,0404300​
6,8​
26,6​
25,2​
0
0
41,4​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA028
0,0387363​
3​
26,4​
7,8​
0
0
62,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA029
0,0345955​
14,4​
19,8​
19,4​
0
0
46,4​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA030
0,0288160​
9,8​
14,2​
8,2​
0
0
7,8​
60​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA034
0,0362284​
5,4​
30​
18​
0
0
46,6​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA035
0,0438243​
1,2​
32​
25​
0
0
41,8​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA037
0,0490441​
12,4​
21,2​
18,8​
0
0
47,6​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA038
0,0676382​
10,8​
25,6​
15,6​
0
0
48​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA039
0,0303924​
7,8​
6,8​
19,6​
0
0
22,2​
43,6​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA084
0,0393594​
6​
38,6​
15,4​
0
0
40​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA095
0,0420903​
8,4​
17,6​
19,8​
0
0
9,2​
45​
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA_o:ALA019
0,0240158​
2,8​
26,8​
11,8​
5,6
0
42,4​
10,6​
 
Target
Distance​
GEO_CHG
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
KAZ_Botai
Levant_Natufian
MAR_EN
RUS_Karelia_HG
RUS_Khvalynsk_En
RUS_Progress_En
RUS_Vonyuchka_En
TKM_Geoksyur_N
TUR_Barcin_N
WHG
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART001
0,0431803​
10,6​
22,6​
18​
0
0
48,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART009
0,0376607​
22,8​
16,2​
11​
0
0
50​
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART010
0,0411286​
22,4​
18,4​
8,4​
0
0
50,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART011
0,0345940​
19,6​
13,8​
7,6​
0
0
6,2​
52,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART004
0,0533887​
10,8​
30​
11,2​
0
0
48​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART005
0,0339886​
0,6​
24,2​
6,2​
0
0
69​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART012
0,0388561​
14,2​
16,8​
14,2​
0
0
54,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART014
0,0312132​
17,4​
13,4​
15,2​
0
0
54​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART015
0,0386522​
10,8​
20​
21,4​
0
0
47,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART017
0,0354175​
13,4​
23,2​
4,2​
0
0
59,2​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART018
0,0321213​
29,8​
14,6​
6,4​
0
0
6​
43,2​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART019
0,0392705​
12,4​
23,6​
19,8​
0
0
44,2​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART020
0,0268593​
21,2​
15,8​
8,6​
0
0
54,4​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART022
0,0405536​
17​
18,4​
7,4​
0
0
57,2​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART023
0,0391195​
24,4​
14​
9,8​
0
0
51,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART024
0,0317834​
16,8​
12,2​
16​
0
0
55​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART026
0,0363879​
19,4​
19​
6​
0
0
55,6​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART027
0,0268124​
21,8​
19,8​
0,4​
0
0
3,6​
54,4​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART032
0,0299815​
17,4​
16,8​
10,6​
0
0
4,6​
50,6​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART038
0,0432255​
6​
24,6​
5,2​
0
0
64,2​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART039
0,0409516​
40​
3,4​
1,8​
0
0
54,8​
TUR_Arslantepe_LC:ART042
0,0321150​
4​
22,4​
19,4​
0
0
54,2​
TUR_Barcin_C:I1584
0,0240846​
14​
2​
0,4
5,2
19,2​
59,2​
TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
0,0199781​
15,8​
9,4​
3,6​
0
0
71,2​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT001
0,0341580​
11,4​
18,2​
3​
0
0
67,4​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT002
0,0348754​
14,6​
21​
8,2​
0
0
56,2​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT003
0,0389602​
15,4​
15​
1​
0
0
68,6​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT004
0,0373601​
13,6​
16,6​
6,4​
0
0
63,4​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT005
0,0397395​
16,6​
12,2​
7,2​
0
0
64​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT010
0,0440960​
17,8​
10​
8,4​
0
0
63,8​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT011
0,0353161​
12,8​
20,4​
5,2​
0
0
61,6​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT013
0,0342570​
14​
18​
3,8​
0
0
64,2​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT014
0,0264495​
18,6​
15,6​
6,6​
0
0
59,2​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT015
0,0386826​
14,6​
20,2​
1,8​
0
0
1,4​
62​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT016
0,0396373​
16,6​
14,8​
4,6​
0
0
64​
TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC:CBT017
0,0284358​
18​
14,2​
0,6​
0
0
67,2​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI002
0,0545419​
20,4​
10​
0
0
6​
63,6​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI009
0,0480633​
23,8​
13,6​
8,6​
0
0
54​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI012
0,0497833​
14,6​
24,2​
2,2​
0
0
59​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI016
0,0387767​
23,6​
18,8​
0
0
57,6​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI017
0,0464296​
28,4​
6,8​
0
3,6
61,2​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI024
0,0392625​
9,4​
21​
0
0
69,6​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI034
0,0443123​
28​
11,4​
8,6​
0
0
52​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI036
0,0451795​
18,4​
21​
2,4​
0
0
58,2​
TUR_Ikiztepe_LC:IKI037
0,0560888​
20,6​
17,4​
7,6​
0
0
54,4​
TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2495
0,0218276​
13,8​
13,2​
0,2​
0
0
72,8​
TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2499
0,0317810​
12,2​
19,8​
1,2​
0,4
0
66,4​
TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2683
0,0269601​
12,6​
18,8​
2,4​
0
0
66,2​
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2200
0,0213453​
18​
14​
8,4​
0
0
2,4​
57,2​
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2203
0,0216241​
4,2​
2,6
0
28,4​
64,8​
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2205
0,0345480​
15,8​
19​
4,2​
0
0
61​
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2206
0,0315966​
10,8​
9,6​
4,4​
0
0
13,8​
61,4​
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res:MA2208
0,0454031​
12,8​
16,6​
8,4​
0
5,4
56,8​
TUR_Ovaoren_EBA:MA2210
0,0263325​
11​
15,8​
5,8​
0
0
11​
56,4​
TUR_Ovaoren_EBA:MA2212
0,0309217​
12,2​
15,2​
9,8​
0
0
4​
58,8​
TUR_Ovaoren_EBA:MA2213
0,0251214​
17,8​
6​
5,4​
0
0
8,4​
62,4​
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD001
0,0369338​
2​
5,4​
17​
0
0
75,6​
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
0,0396137​
7,2​
17,6​
0
0
75,2​
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD004
0,0769840​
7​
1,2​
18,2​
0
0
73,6​
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD006
0,0281111​
8,8​
22,4​
0
0
68,8​
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC:KRD002
0,0411310​
2,6​
15,6​
14​
0
0
67,8​
TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA:TIT021
0,0512983​
12,8​
26,8​
7,6​
0
0
52,8​
 
^^What does the above say about how much East Eurasian was in Central Asia/Tarim Basin when the ancestors of Mittanis/Tocharians moved in?
 
from Carlos Quiles's site

but it is my fault. It seems that the western source is more similar to Goyet ( which is Aurignacian)
here is the quote ( EWE stands for early west eurasian)

Ancient North Eurasians (ANE): contributed to by ANS, an EWE source close to the Goyet cluster (ca. 75%) and an EEA population (ca. 25%).

Is ANE defined by Yana or Malta? If its the latter then I think ANE is only 9% EEA related not 25%.
 
^^What does the above say about how much East Eurasian was in Central Asia/Tarim Basin when the ancestors of Mittanis/Tocharians moved in?

AFAIK North-Central Asia was probably inhabited mainly by Botai-like and Dali_EBA-like populations, that is, mostly a mix of EHG + ANE + East Eurasian in minor but significant proportions (~15-20% IIRC).

South-Central Asia had some of that northern hunter-gatherer ancestry in scattered places and individuals, but the vast majority of the region's genetic makeup was Eastern Iran_N.
 
Eh, So I read almost the entire thread and not a word about Proto-Kartvelian peoples... Has there been any meaningful research done about them? Every time I read a new research about Caucasus it seems to be centered around IE/Semitic/Armenian/steppe ancestry. It's as if researchers are avoiding Proto-Kartvelian. Genetically speaking Modern Kartvelians seem to be related to Ancient Caucasians and Anatolians but when discussing ancient groups none of them are associated with Kartvelian.
 
AFAIK North-Central Asia was probably inhabited mainly by Botai-like and Dali_EBA-like populations, that is, mostly a mix of EHG + ANE + East Eurasian in minor but significant proportions (~15-20% IIRC).

South-Central Asia had some of that northern hunter-gatherer ancestry in scattered places and individuals, but the vast majority of the region's genetic makeup was Eastern Iran_N.

That's what I think too. Does North Central Asia extend to the Tarim in your opinion?

So NCA was like 75-80% West Eurasian and South Central Asia was mostly Iran_N but with some Anatolian ancestry as well no?
 
is there also a link to the supplements?

I clicked on the link for it, but it just sent me to a page of references.

In my spare time, I will try to decipher what the archeological designations are for the samples I have coordinates for.
 

This thread has been viewed 58995 times.

Back
Top