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Thread: The Genomic History of the Bronze Age Southern Levant (Agranat-Tamir et al. 2020)

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    by the way i notice now when i looked
    in supplemental table S:1
    that one female from the baqah jordan
    dated to late bronze age 1424-1288 BC
    carry mtdna L0f2b

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    by the way i notice now when i looked
    in supplemental table S:1
    that one female from the baqah jordan
    dated to late bronze age 1424-1288 BC
    carry mtdna L0f2b
    Same thing happened with Spain, yes, some early SSA maternal haplogroups.

    It's highly unlikely, imo, that the SSA entered the Levant only with the Arab Slave Trade, although that may be when the majority of it arrived.


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    It is good to read about Hyksos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

    The chariot had initially been introduced to the Middle East by Indo-Iranians. The Hyksos were also responsible for introducing the horse into Egypt, and rode them in all their wars. Chariots had earlier played a key role in the conquests by the Hittites in Anatolia, the Indo-Iranians in northern India, and the Mycenaeans in Greece.
    Contemporary with the Hyksos, there was a widespread Indo-Aryan expansion in central and south Asia. The arrival of the Hyksos in Egypt, along with the arrival of the Hurrians in Syria and the Kassites in Babylonia, has been connected with this migration. The Hyksos used the same horsedrawn chariot as the Indo-Aryans, and Egyptian sources mention a rapid conquest. While the majority of the Hyksos are thought to have been Semitic, the Hyksos are usually believed to have contained Indo-Europeans and Hurrians among the leadership. According to William L. Ochsenwald, it is certain that the Hyksos contained Hurrians who were under Indo-Aryan rule and influence. Claude Frédéric-Armand Schaeffer states that the Hyksos were related to the Hurrians and the Mitanni. While the names of the earliest or "Lesser Hyksos" rulers are Semitic, names of later or "Greater Hyksos" rulers have been identified as having Indo-Aryan, Hurrian or uncertain etymologies. These names are associated with the second wave of Hyksos invasion in the 17th century BC, which was composed of a mixed group of well organized warriors that were different from the earlier Asiatic Hyksos princes that arrived in Egypt in the 18th century BC. John Bright cites this as evidence that there might have been an Indo-Aryan element among the Hyksos. Philip Khuri Hitti wrote that the Hyksos were a mixed group which in addition to Semites included Hurrians, Hittites, Mitanni and Habiru. Hitti connected the arrival of the Hyksos with the Indo-European migrations at the time, and cites the introduction of the horse and the chariot by them to Egypt as evidence of their Indo-European connections.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    someone run them( snp) it look like.....( other forum)

    Y chr Haplogroup assignments:

    I7182 Yehud J2b
    I2189 Megiddo_MLBA_family4 R1a1a1:F3551/V8042/PF6231
    I2190 Megiddo_MLBA J2a1a1a2b2a1a:Z509/PF5155
    I2195 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:FGC1677/Z2326
    I2198 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2F4849/Z1855
    I2201 Abel T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2:CTS6280
    I3965 Hazor J1a2a1a2d2b2b2F4881/YSC0000235
    I3966 Hazor E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
    I4517 Megiddo_IA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S16807/S21060
    I4518 Megiddo_MLBA T1a1a1b2:CTS2214
    I4519 Megiddo_MLBA_family1 J2a1a1a2b2a1a:M92
    I4521 Megiddo_IBA J2b
    I4525 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2:AM01339/PF4826/Z1874
    I6461 Baqah_family6 J1a2a1a2d2b2bF4843/Z2324
    I6464 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c3:FGC63758/HU80
    I6566 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
    I6569 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I6459 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I6460 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3985 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3987 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
    I3705 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3706 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I3703 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I6928 Yehud_low_coverage J2b
    I6923 Yehud J2b
    I7003 Yehud J2b
    I10093 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2bF4843/Z2324
    I10101 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1a258/PAGE8/PF4698/PAGES00008
    I10104 Megiddo_MLBA J1
    I10106 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2F4854/YSC0000183/Z2320
    I10264 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2:CTS11719/PF4863/Z1888
    I10266 Megiddo_MLBA J2a2a1a:Z28375
    I10268 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S21060
    I10269 Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage R
    I10359 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:CTS2453/PF4806/Z2319/FGC1677/Z2326
    I10361 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1:AM01312/CTS4376/Z1861
    I8187 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2F4881/YSC0000235
    I8188 Megiddo_MLBA_family2 J1a2a1a2d2b:Z1853
    S10769.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
    S10770.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a1:L29/PAGE47/PAGES00047
    S10768.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA R1b1a1b:M269


    List of derived and ancestral snps for each sample.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    someone run them( snp) it look like.....( other forum)

    Y chr Haplogroup assignments:

    I7182 Yehud J2b
    I2189 Megiddo_MLBA_family4 R1a1a1:F3551/V8042/PF6231
    I2190 Megiddo_MLBA J2a1a1a2b2a1a:Z509/PF5155
    I2195 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:FGC1677/Z2326
    I2198 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2F4849/Z1855
    I2201 Abel T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2:CTS6280
    I3965 Hazor J1a2a1a2d2b2b2F4881/YSC0000235
    I3966 Hazor E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
    I4517 Megiddo_IA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S16807/S21060
    I4518 Megiddo_MLBA T1a1a1b2:CTS2214
    I4519 Megiddo_MLBA_family1 J2a1a1a2b2a1a:M92
    I4521 Megiddo_IBA J2b
    I4525 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2:AM01339/PF4826/Z1874
    I6461 Baqah_family6 J1a2a1a2d2b2bF4843/Z2324
    I6464 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c3:FGC63758/HU80
    I6566 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
    I6569 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I6459 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I6460 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3985 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3987 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
    I3705 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
    I3706 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I3703 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
    I6928 Yehud_low_coverage J2b
    I6923 Yehud J2b
    I7003 Yehud J2b
    I10093 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2bF4843/Z2324
    I10101 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1a258/PAGE8/PF4698/PAGES00008
    I10104 Megiddo_MLBA J1
    I10106 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2F4854/YSC0000183/Z2320
    I10264 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2:CTS11719/PF4863/Z1888
    I10266 Megiddo_MLBA J2a2a1a:Z28375
    I10268 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S21060
    I10269 Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage R
    I10359 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:CTS2453/PF4806/Z2319/FGC1677/Z2326
    I10361 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1:AM01312/CTS4376/Z1861
    I8187 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2F4881/YSC0000235
    I8188 Megiddo_MLBA_family2 J1a2a1a2d2b:Z1853
    S10769.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
    S10770.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a1:L29/PAGE47/PAGES00047
    S10768.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA R1b1a1b:M269


    List of derived and ancestral snps for each sample.
    Are they sure about that R1a1a1? Somebody get lost? :)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Are they sure about that R1a1a1? Somebody get lost? :)
    no he probably arrived from the steppe ( according to davidski blog)

    The Megiddo samples, dated to 1600-1500 BCE, include a trio of interesting outliers with significant ancestry from the steppe. One of these individuals is a male, I2189, who belongs to Y-haplogroup R and probably R1a. So he might also be of Indo-Aryan origin.

    Another Megiddo male, S10768, belongs to R1b-M269 and probably shows a few per cent of steppe ancestry. I've already discussed how R1b and steppe ancestry may have ended up in the Bronze Age Near East in a couple of my previous posts


    p.s
    about the person who run those samples ( snp calls)
    i think he knows and have enough experience .....

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Interesting. After the peak of this Canaanite city's power, and just before the Battle of Megiddo and the domination by the Egyptians.

    I need to do some digging around.

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    Well, 12189, which the authors just called "R", and 12200 are siblings, children, so they better be almost the same autosomally, or something is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting. After the peak of this Canaanite city's power, and just before the Battle of Megiddo and the domination by the Egyptians.

    I need to do some digging around.
    Amazing isn't it 😉

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    no he probably arrived from the steppe ( according to davidski blog)

    The Megiddo samples, dated to 1600-1500 BCE, include a trio of interesting outliers with significant ancestry from the steppe. One of these individuals is a male, I2189, who belongs to Y-haplogroup R and probably R1a. So he might also be of Indo-Aryan origin.

    Another Megiddo male, S10768, belongs to R1b-M269 and probably shows a few per cent of steppe ancestry. I've already discussed how R1b and steppe ancestry may have ended up in the Bronze Age Near East in a couple of my previous posts


    p.s
    about the person who run those samples ( snp calls)
    i think he knows and have enough experience .....
    I certainly agree but it shows R1a1a1 and R1b-M269 were Indo-Iranian haplogroups, not Proto-Indo-European.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Middle-East Chalcolithic/Bronze Age probably was a paradise of civilization for Steppe people, or any other foreigners when they came there. Huge cities-states with high structures and sculptures, lots of people, hugh wealth... not that hard to think that any Steppe lineage could have lost itself into this new world of many possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Middle-East Chalcolithic/Bronze Age probably was a paradise of civilization for Steppe people, or any other foreigners when they came there. Huge cities-states with high structures and sculptures, lots of people, hugh wealth... not that hard to think that any Steppe lineage could have lost itself into this new world of many possibilities.
    Of course you know these samples with R1a and R1b haplogroups date back to about 1500 BC when most of this paradise of civilization was under the rule of Indo-Europeans such as Hittites and Mitanni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    Of course you know these samples with R1a and R1b haplogroups date back to about 1500 BC when most of this paradise of civilization was under the rule of Indo-Europeans such as Hittites and Mitanni.
    It was not, i presume. Indo-Europeans in Middle-East were at last an opportunistic luck. There was many more other ethnics and languages in the near-by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, 12189, which the authors just called "R", and 12200 are siblings, children, so they better be almost the same autosomally, or something is wrong.
    from the paper:
    The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
    , Toffolo et al., 2014
    ), whereas the bone of one of the three (I10100) was directly dated (1688–1535 BCE, ± 2Σ). The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast (Table S2; Figure S2B). The Neolithic Levant component is 22%–27% in I2200, and 9%–26% in I10100. These individuals are unlikely to be first generation migrants, as strontium isotope analysis on the two outlier siblings (I2189 and I2200) (Methods S1A) suggests that they were raised locally. This implies that the Megiddo outliers might be descendants of people who arrived in recent generations. Direct support for this hypothesis comes from the fact that in sensitive qpAdm modeling (including closely related sets of outgroups), the only working northeast source population for these two individuals is the contemporaneous Armenia_MLBA, whereas the earlier Iran_ChL and Armenia_EBA do not fit (Table S2). The addition of Iran_ChL to the set of outgroups does not change this result or cause model failure. Finally, no other Levantine group shows a similar admixture pattern (Table S2). This shows that some level of gene flow into the Levant took place during the later phases of the Bronze Age and suggests that the source of this gene flow was the Caucasus

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    from the paper:
    The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
    , Toffolo et al., 2014
    ), whereas the bone of one of the three (I10100) was directly dated (1688–1535 BCE, ± 2Σ). The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast (Table S2; Figure S2B). The Neolithic Levant component is 22%–27% in I2200, and 9%–26% in I10100. These individuals are unlikely to be first generation migrants, as strontium isotope analysis on the two outlier siblings (I2189 and I2200) (Methods S1A) suggests that they were raised locally. This implies that the Megiddo outliers might be descendants of people who arrived in recent generations. Direct support for this hypothesis comes from the fact that in sensitive qpAdm modeling (including closely related sets of outgroups), the only working northeast source population for these two individuals is the contemporaneous Armenia_MLBA, whereas the earlier Iran_ChL and Armenia_EBA do not fit (Table S2). The addition of Iran_ChL to the set of outgroups does not change this result or cause model failure. Finally, no other Levantine group shows a similar admixture pattern (Table S2). This shows that some level of gene flow into the Levant took place during the later phases of the Bronze Age and suggests that the source of this gene flow was the Caucasus
    Thanks, kingjohn, I read that. I was referring to the fact that I've heard that bloggers claim the "R" child supposedly has "steppe" ancestry. I then heard that the other "outlier" samples don't show it. "IF" bloggers have found real steppe ancestry in that child, then it should be in the sibling. It's possible to see differing levels, perhaps, but none?

    I probably shouldn't have mentioned it as it is double hearsay, but that was the genesis of my comment.
    Last edited by Angela; 01-06-20 at 16:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    by the way i notice now when i looked
    in supplemental table S:1
    that one female from the baqah jordan
    dated to late bronze age 1424-1288 BC
    carry mtdna L0f2b
    It's not a female but a male with the Y-DNA J1a2b.

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    Ok a male
    Sorry 🤔
    Regards
    Adam


    P.s
    Even if he is a male that doesnt change
    The fact that he carry subsharan mtdna
    And it is cool to see it was present in bronze age remains from jordan 😉
    Last edited by kingjohn; 02-06-20 at 00:46.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    from the paper:
    The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
    , Toffolo et al., 2014
    ), whereas the bone of one of the three (I10100) was directly dated (1688–1535 BCE, ± 2Σ). The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast (Table S2; Figure S2B). The Neolithic Levant component is 22%–27% in I2200, and 9%–26% in I10100. These individuals are unlikely to be first generation migrants, as strontium isotope analysis on the two outlier siblings (I2189 and I2200) (Methods S1A) suggests that they were raised locally. This implies that the Megiddo outliers might be descendants of people who arrived in recent generations. Direct support for this hypothesis comes from the fact that in sensitive qpAdm modeling (including closely related sets of outgroups), the only working northeast source population for these two individuals is the contemporaneous Armenia_MLBA, whereas the earlier Iran_ChL and Armenia_EBA do not fit (Table S2). The addition of Iran_ChL to the set of outgroups does not change this result or cause model failure. Finally, no other Levantine group shows a similar admixture pattern (Table S2). This shows that some level of gene flow into the Levant took place during the later phases of the Bronze Age and suggests that the source of this gene flow was the Caucasus
    About Megiddo it is good to mention it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biridiya Biridiya was the ruler of Megiddo in the 14th century BC. Biridiya authored five of the Amarna letters correspondence. He is also mentioned in the corpus from the city of 'Kumidu', the Kamid al lawz.

    Survey of Ancient India, page 132: Iranian affinity is clear in Biridiya, for we have Bardiya, younger son of Cyrus; whatever the sense may be the d points to Old Persian affinities.

    The Indian Historical Quarterly, Page 578: Of clear Iranian forms Mironov stresses Biridiya, on the score of the d corresponding to an original gh, distinctive of Persian.

    You can read more about it in Origin of Vedas, by K S Krishnan:


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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Ok a male
    Sorry ������
    Regards
    Adam


    P.s
    Even if he is a male that doesnt change
    The fact that he carry subsharan mtdna
    And it is cool to see it was present in bronze age remains from jordan ������

    I didn't say anything about the African mtDNA, my correction referred to the gender of this individual. Hey, we have a woman from Central Asia in Bronze Age Levant this is even more surprising than a Levantine? carrying an African mtDNA. Keep in mind Egyptians and Nubians had lots of interactions with Canaan during the Bronze Age. Who knows? This guy could be also an Egyptian who resided in Baqah Jordan. Anyway, I'd love to see how this man looks like genetically speaking. There is a possible Israelite from Iron Age II.




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    Some eurogenes k13 values: (someone sent me) check this individual

    Yehud_low_coverage:I7179,0.00,0.00,0.00,4.24,36.64 ,27.23,8.66,0.00,0.00,4.86,5.08,13.30,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I7180,0.00,0.00,11.82,14.35,45. 75,25.19,0.00,0.32,0.00,0.80,1.78,0.00,0.00

    Yehud:I7182,2.22,0.00,8.58,13.32,45.92,26.79,2.95, 0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.22,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I7184,0.00,4.04,17.72,8.08,49.6 3,17.84,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.69

    Megiddo_MLBA_family4:I2189,0.70,19.49,8.37,27.31,3 2.32,8.63,2.27,0.00,0.65,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.26

    Megiddo_MLBA:I2190,0.00,0.00,11.28,21.95,45.02,15. 85,2.95,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.24,0.71,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I2195,0.00,0.00,12.44,20.84,50.21,12. 99,1.04,0.00,0.72,0.00,0.00,1.75,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I2198,0.00,0.00,17.80,16.93,46.23,15. 21,0.72,0.00,0.11,0.00,0.00,3.00,0.00

    Megiddo_I2200:I2200,8.40,9.41,8.27,28.83,29.33,9.9 4,3.70,0.86,0.04,0.87,0.00,0.00,0.35

    Abel:I2201,0.00,0.00,14.97,18.99,45.60,17.88,0.39, 0.75,0.23,0.00,0.00,1.19,0.00

    Hazor:I3965,0.00,0.00,13.47,22.39,46.49,14.50,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.83,1.07,1.25,0.00

    Hazor:I3966,0.00,0.00,11.69,18.43,48.95,18.00,0.00 ,0.00,1.34,0.00,0.72,0.87,0.00

    Megiddo_IA:I4517,3.11,0.00,12.06,17.85,44.82,19.37 ,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.33,1.47,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I4518,0.00,0.00,13.94,21.94,41.30,20. 20,0.00,0.50,0.00,0.18,0.00,1.94,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_family1:I4519,0.00,0.00,17.81,16.04,4 8.29,15.17,0.00,0.00,2.45,0.00,0.24,0.00,0.00
    Megiddo_IBA:I4521,0.71,0.00,13.16,9.03,51.60,22.91 ,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.59,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I4525,0.00,0.00,15.03,17.19,47.53,18. 82,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.69,0.15,0.58,0.00

    Baqah_low_coverage:I6463,0.00,4.08,0.00,9.45,44.71 ,26.99,0.00,0.00,5.48,0.00,2.40,6.89,0.00

    Baqah:I6565,0.00,0.00,8.85,18.80,47.87,21.13,0.10, 0.00,0.00,0.00,2.12,1.13,0.00

    Baqah_family6:I6461,0.00,0.00,15.02,16.65,49.41,17 .29,0.00,0.20,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.43

    Baqah:I6462,0.00,0.00,12.48,13.50,54.16,16.60,0.00 ,1.20,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.06,0.00

    Baqah:I6464,0.00,0.00,11.07,11.73,56.71,19.39,0.00 ,1.11,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Baqah:I6564,0.82,0.00,10.73,16.99,48.39,20.69,0.66 ,0.00,0.00,0.41,0.00,1.31,0.00

    Baqah:I6566,0.00,0.00,13.60,12.83,52.56,18.07,1.16 ,0.97,0.00,0.00,0.01,0.80,0.00

    Baqah:I6567,0.00,0.00,14.87,17.12,46.91,19.80,0.00 ,0.07,0.00,0.00,0.75,0.48,0.00

    Baqah:I6569,0.00,0.00,9.17,17.35,51.76,20.69,0.00, 0.69,0.15,0.20,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Baqah:I6570,0.00,0.00,13.81,15.89,49.11,18.94,0.00 ,0.72,0.00,0.00,0.49,1.03,0.00

    Baqah:I6571,0.00,0.00,13.91,15.38,47.74,20.68,0.00 ,0.28,0.00,1.14,0.00,0.87,0.00

    Baqah:I6572,0.00,0.00,14.59,15.58,46.47,20.67,0.71 ,0.74,0.00,0.52,0.20,0.51,0.00

    Baqah:I6459,0.00,0.00,16.37,16.59,47.79,16.02,0.99 ,0.63,0.00,0.00,0.61,1.00,0.00

    Baqah:I6460,0.00,0.00,12.18,17.88,47.33,19.63,0.00 ,2.51,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.47,0.00

    Baqah:I3707,0.00,0.00,14.34,11.49,51.10,20.71,0.00 ,0.53,0.00,0.00,0.57,1.25,0.00

    Baqah:I3985,0.00,0.00,12.46,11.98,55.73,17.72,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,1.53,0.00,0.59,0.00

    Baqah:I3986,0.00,0.00,12.34,17.88,51.21,16.97,0.00 ,0.00,0.74,0.00,0.43,0.43,0.00

    Baqah:I3987,0.00,0.00,9.84,16.93,51.46,18.98,0.22, 1.42,0.05,0.47,0.45,0.18,0.00

    Baqah:I3705,0.00,0.00,15.45,13.59,48.96,19.43,0.00 ,1.09,0.00,0.00,0.02,1.46,0.00

    Baqah:I3706,0.00,1.23,13.83,16.41,50.95,15.40,1.09 ,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.53,0.57,0.00

    Hazor:I3832,0.00,0.00,14.49,10.75,52.04,21.46,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.26,0.00

    Baqah:I3703,0.00,0.00,13.29,18.35,52.13,14.65,0.00 ,1.13,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.45,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I6932,0.00,0.00,14.84,0.00,51.6 7,30.74,1.79,0.78,0.18,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I6925,0.00,0.00,3.17,17.73,41.3 2,37.79,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I6924,0.00,3.15,4.27,17.58,38.3 3,32.37,0.00,0.00,0.00,3.73,0.57,0.00,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I6928,0.00,0.00,21.96,6.04,45.1 4,23.96,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.44,0.00,1.46,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I7002,0.00,1.98,11.04,13.84,45. 84,25.54,0.00,1.72,0.00,0.00,0.06,0.00,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I6922,0.00,0.00,15.10,11.26,47. 02,19.44,0.62,0.00,0.11,6.44,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Yehud:I6923,0.00,0.00,16.34,10.29,44.23,29.02,0.00 ,0.00,0.00,0.11,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Yehud:I7003,0.00,0.00,17.85,5.17,51.81,21.88,3.01, 0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.28,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10092,1.34,0.00,11.99,12.57,48.31,22 .85,0.00,1.75,0.00,0.00,0.70,0.48,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10093,0.42,0.00,11.26,13.21,48.41,22 .87,0.27,0.90,0.00,0.00,0.24,2.42,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage:I10096,1.78,1.05,0.00,27 .52,40.55,29.10,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10097,0.00,0.00,13.64,15.91,51.44,17 .39,0.00,0.26,0.00,0.00,0.30,1.07,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10099,3.04,0.00,8.09,20.51,48.38,17. 57,0.00,0.91,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.50,0.00

    Megiddo_I10100:I10100,15.48,10.19,2.79,28.89,21.57 ,9.40,5.25,0.00,0.00,3.10,3.33,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_family3:I10101,4.91,0.00,15.18,10.69, 50.11,15.79,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,3.32,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10104,0.00,0.00,6.17,8.26,60.32,22.1 7,2.03,0.00,0.00,1.06,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10106,0.00,0.00,8.56,17.54,51.27,20. 76,0.00,0.97,0.00,0.00,0.90,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10263,0.00,2.82,4.54,17.63,49.61,21. 15,0.00,0.00,2.43,0.00,0.32,1.51,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10264,0.00,0.00,9.51,20.42,46.80,19. 51,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.92,1.84,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10265,0.00,0.00,7.39,15.37,58.91,13. 04,0.00,5.03,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.26,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10266,0.00,0.00,18.34,22.48,46.48,11 .75,0.00,0.00,0.20,0.75,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage:I10267,0.00,0.00,1.97,2. 58,55.74,30.67,4.61,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,4.43

    Megiddo_MLBA:I10268,0.00,0.00,15.91,15.58,48.48,17 .38,0.00,0.25,0.67,0.10,0.72,0.91,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage:I10269,4.46,0.00,21.98,2 3.15,6.09,15.05,28.45,0.00,0.00,0.82,0.00,0.00,0.0 0

    Megiddo_MLBA_family3:I10270,0.00,0.00,12.94,16.43, 47.27,18.69,2.20,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.46,0.00,0.00
    Megiddo_MLBA:I10359,0.00,0.00,6.04,26.93,44.42,18. 88,0.00,1.74,1.32,0.00,0.58,0.09,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_family3:I10361,0.00,0.00,25.27,0.00,5 1.89,16.42,6.42,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Yehud_low_coverage:I7177,0.00,0.00,8.14,0.00,68.88 ,22.97,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:I8187,0.00,0.00,12.71,11.93,53.43,20. 04,0.00,0.39,0.00,0.31,0.00,1.19,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA_family2:I8188,0.00,0.00,15.19,11.96,5 3.40,15.71,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.33,3.41,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:S10771.E1.L1,0.00,0.00,14.17,19.63,47 .68,16.45,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.07,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:S10769.E1.L1,0.00,0.00,9.67,20.98,49. 60,17.44,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.65,0.67,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:S10770.E1.L1,0.00,0.00,7.03,21.05,51. 01,16.56,1.42,0.02,0.81,0.00,1.62,0.49,0.00

    Megiddo_MLBA:S10768.E1.L1,2.40,0.00,12.69,15.32,49 .55,17.90,0.76,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.39,0.00,0.00

  21. #46
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^I ran Megiddo Iron Age just for the heck of it.

    Just parenthetically, I honestly have to pinch myself; I am looking at the genetics of the people of Megiddo and Hazor, those almost mythical places I read about so often. :) I'm sure you've read scripture, but did you ever read "The Source" by Michener? He must have had genius researchers or some professors helping him out, because it's amazing how much he got right as a non-archaeologist.

    Looks like perhaps some significant gene flow from tribal Arabs going north during the invasion period might have occurred? So, maybe all that stuff wasn't propaganda after all. Of course, the Jews are far different too.

    Target: IronAgeMegiddoI4517
    Distance: 1.9161% / 1.91607142
    46.2 Lebanese_Christian
    30.2 Saudi
    6.6 Lebanese_Druze
    5.4 Yemenite_Jewish
    5.2 Laz
    5.0 Sephardic_Jewish
    0.8 French_Basque
    0.6 Papuan


    Distance to: IronAgeMegiddoI4517
    5.83624023 Palestinian
    7.47651657 Samaritan
    8.87532535 Jordanian
    8.90790660 Lebanese_Christian
    10.17634512 Bedouin
    10.71843272 Syrian
    11.74845522 Lebanese_Druze
    11.94831787 Lebanese_Muslim
    13.56100660 Nusayri
    14.99159098 Cyprian
    14.99159098 Greek_Cypriot
    16.15976176 Turk_Cypriot
    16.42481050 Tunisian_Jewish
    16.46080496 Kurdish_Jewish
    16.59787035 Egyptian
    16.71634529 Libyan_Jewish
    17.12021320 Iranian_Jewish
    18.52263210 Saudi
    18.55920526 Yemenite_Jewish
    19.46903182 Assyrian
    20.45469139 Sephardic_Jewish
    20.89022559 Greek_Dodecanese
    21.01150161 Greek_Cappadocian
    21.88697329 Algerian_Jewish
    22.08385609 Italian_Jewish

  22. #47
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    Zionists not going to like it ...🤔
    Megido iron age cluster with palestinians😎

  23. #48
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't remember which book I read it in but the book made the case that the Israelites were actually coastal people from Northern Saudi Arabia that went north through the desert to what is now Israel. It had convincing arguments, I just wish I remember what they were. I do remember telling my wife that I couldn't wait to tell our Jewish friends that they were Saudis after all.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 02-06-20 at 20:00.

  24. #49
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    Source: some points raised by smart person From other forum😉
    Taken from paper: 👍
    Area H in the north: buildings (and burials) immediately to the west of the Middle Bronze III-Late Bronze palaces of Megiddo
    Level H-15, Late Bronze I.
    The sampled burial, with two individuals (I10769 and I10770), was found above the monumental tomb of Level H-16; those who dug it were probably aware of this association.
    The two Megiddo individuals with the next lowest Neolithic Levant component (I10769 and I10770, brothers) were found near the monumental tomb that was likely related to the palace at Megiddo, raising the possibility that they might be associated with the ruling caste. Indeed, a ruler of Taanach (a town located immediately to the south of Megiddo) mentioned in a 15th century BCE cuneiform tablet found at the site and the rulers of Megiddo and Taanach mentioned in the 14th century BCE Amarna letters (found in Egypt) carry Hurrian names (a language spoken in the northeast of the ancient Near East, possibly including the Caucasus) (Na’aman, 1994b). This provides some evidence—albeit so far only suggestive—that at least some of the ruling groups in these (and other) cities might have originated from the northeast of the ancient Near East.

    P.s
    Those are the 2 e-m34 brothers from tel-megido
    I personally think they were probably just regular cannanites
    but my mind open to a hurrian origin...
    🤔
    Last edited by kingjohn; 02-06-20 at 20:05.

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    The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
    The Coming of the Greeks: Indo-European Conquests in the Aegean and the Near East, page 60:


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