Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: What would explain this in Catalonia?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsTagger Second Class

    Join Date
    20-05-18
    Posts
    122
    Points
    3,640
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,640, Level: 17
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Country: Portugal



    What would explain this in Catalonia?

    Catalonia does not show any Moorish mix (unlike the rest of the peninsula). Catalonia follows the peak of Malta 1 ancestry as in the northwest part of the peninsula, but the center of the peninsula (also the Basques) has lower values ​​of ANE ancestry and higher levels of WHG ancestry. It seems that the Indo-European peoples were concentrated in the western part of the peninsula (nothing new) but the eastern part concentrates more WHG ancestry as well as the Basques, but Catalonia leaves the 'Basque' pattern and follows the northwestern Indo-European peak of the peninsula.

    Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01518
    Distance: 6.9207% / 0.06920656
    54.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    20.8 WHG
    12.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    10.8 RUS_MA1
    1.4 GEO_CHG


    Target: Spanish_Aragon:HG01675
    Distance: 5.2136% / 0.05213594
    51.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.8 WHG
    14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    10.0 RUS_MA1
    2.6 GEO_CHG
    1.6 MAR_Iberomaurusian


    Target: Spanish_Cataluna:HG01536
    Distance: 4.9751% / 0.04975077
    57.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.6 WHG
    14.6 RUS_MA1
    8.6 GEO_CHG


    Target: Portuguese:EBC_Portugal1
    Distance: 5.0376% / 0.05037571
    54.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    15.8 WHG
    14.2 RUS_MA1
    7.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    5.2 GEO_CHG
    3.0 MAR_Iberomaurusian



    Target: Spanish_Extremadura:HG01510
    Distance: 4.6142% / 0.04614193
    55.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    17.6 WHG
    12.2 RUS_MA1
    10.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    4.2 GEO_CHG
    0.8 MAR_Iberomaurusian


    Comparison with other regions

    Target: Italian_Lombardy:BGD31
    Distance: 5.5511% / 0.05551127
    51.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    27.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    11.8 WHG
    7.8 RUS_MA1
    1.8 GEO_CHG


    Target: Welsh
    Distance: 8.0972% / 0.08097181
    40.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    22.6 WHG
    18.8 RUS_MA1
    10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    8.0 GEO_CHG


    Target: French_Auvergne
    Distance: 5.7057% / 0.05705727
    52.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    18.6 WHG
    14.6 RUS_MA1
    8.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    6.0 GEO_CHG


    Target: French_Paris
    Distance: 6.9837% / 0.06983691
    47.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.4 WHG
    16.4 RUS_MA1
    10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    6.0 GEO_CHG


    Target: Italian_Lazio:NOR28
    Distance: 3.0378% / 0.03037840
    46.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    43.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    9.0 WHG
    1.4 RUS_MA1



    Target: Irish
    Distance: 8.6648% / 0.08664825
    38.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    22.4 WHG
    20.6 RUS_MA1
    9.4 GEO_CHG
    9.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    Maybe they will be doing reviews and many more tests sometimes there are results that seem to be getting old. And there are so many agendas, God what a waste of time.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    210
    Points
    6,629
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,629, Level: 24
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Of course, I have no clue. But it comes to my mind that Catalonia has traditionally been linked to the Occitània, on the south-east of France. In fact, during the last centuries there was quite a lot of exchange of population (mostly from Occitània to Catalonia).

    This hypothesis would be consistent with the Auvergne data, which is geographically more or less close to Occitània (on the north).

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    210
    Points
    6,629
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,629, Level: 24
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    By the way, where is it stated that in Catalonia there is no genetic imprint of the Moors? I would like to read more about this.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    These coordinates are from Northeast, I think that's Catalonia, right? I mean North East, I would say yes.

    Code:
     Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1310,0.121791,0.152329,0.059208,0.007429,0.070782,-0.009482,-0.00329,-0.001846,0.039473,0.05704,-0.001299,0.010191,-0.017393,-0.017203,0.005429,0.015248,0.016298,-0.006841,-0.000628,0.002126,-0.001622,0.006183,-0.007518,-0.025064,-0.000599
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1313_d,0.122929,0.152329,0.058831,-0.004845,0.064012,-0.019522,-0.008695,-0.001154,0.041927,0.047564,0.000325,0.010041,-0.029732,-0.011836,0.002036,0.010607,0.021774,0.005701,0.004651,0.007379,0.01959,0.005935,-0.013311,-0.008555,0.001317
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836,0.129758,0.157407,0.058454,-0.00323,0.059396,-0.000558,-0.00141,-0.003231,0.039064,0.04811,0.00065,0.006145,-0.029435,-0.021332,0.002443,0.011535,0.008214,0.000127,-0.00176,-0.001251,0.008859,0.010016,-0.007765,-0.016629,-0.007544
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4559,0.12862,0.14319,0.062979,0.006783,0.07386,-0.004462,0.006345,0.000231,0.047859,0.062689,0.000325,0.008093,-0.021407,-0.020368,-0.000679,0.02254,0.015646,-0.005068,0.00176,0.013506,0.010731,0.004328,-0.010723,-0.016267,0.002395
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4560,0.127482,0.151314,0.059962,0.008398,0.063704,-0.005578,-0.00658,0.004154,0.025361,0.061049,-0.008931,0.007793,-0.029435,-0.019267,-0.005157,0.009016,0.025816,0.001394,-0.005656,0.003752,0.003119,-0.006677,-0.015406,-0.015183,0.003233
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561,0.130897,0.144205,0.064488,0.011305,0.065858,0.004462,0.00235,0,0.041723,0.054853,-0.003897,0.015137,-0.026164,-0.018029,-0.000271,0.003713,-0.002868,0.008108,0.006662,0.001751,0.015348,-0.003957,-0.016392,-0.014219,-0.001078
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4562,0.122929,0.152329,0.062979,-0.001938,0.065551,-0.007251,0.00235,-0.001154,0.039473,0.055035,-0.007957,0.004346,-0.024232,-0.016102,0.004343,0.008884,0.00339,-0.000127,0.000503,0.003502,0.010232,0.004081,-0.01023,-0.022654,0.006586
    Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4563,0.126344,0.149283,0.059962,0.001615,0.072013,-0.00502,0.00235,-0.000923,0.035792,0.054124,-0.001786,0.010641,-0.027354,-0.023121,-0.001764,0.004243,0.002868,-0.000507,0.001885,0.00075,0.020214,-0.00136,-0.02391,-0.012532,-0.001557
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I3777,0.125205,0.144205,0.050534,0.018088,0.041546,0.001116,0.004935,0.004615,0.02168,0.023873,-0.008282,0.012439,-0.006095,-0.009909,0.016015,0.002917,0.004955,0.005321,0.005028,-0.00025,0.000374,-0.01286,-0.00037,0.001446,0.000718
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673,0.111547,0.147252,0.038843,0.009044,0.047701,-0.001394,-0.00376,0.010615,0.027202,0.02934,-0.007795,0.005395,-0.006838,-0.003441,0.008143,0.001193,-0.021513,0.003421,-0.006536,0.005753,-0.001373,0.011005,-0.010969,0.003374,-0.005269
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031,0.126344,0.133034,0.039598,0.017119,0.03416,0.007809,0.009635,0.009461,0.002659,0.004738,-0.006658,-0.002548,-0.009068,-0.003165,0.002307,-0.003315,0.004303,0.003547,-0.008296,0.006128,-0.000499,0.001237,-0.002711,0.00482,-0.008263
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032,0.142279,0.145221,0.04978,0.030039,0.03139,0.010877,-0.00047,0.013153,0.011862,0.011116,-0.006333,0.013038,-0.01888,-0.00234,0.004886,0.008221,0.004563,0.012162,0.002263,0.013006,0.010232,-0.000618,-0.001356,-0.002651,0.000838
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034,0.130897,0.139128,0.0445,0.01615,0.052317,-0.001394,0.00047,0,0.021475,0.036447,-0.000974,0.017085,-0.019623,-0.009358,0.017644,0.009281,0.000522,-0.00152,-0.009804,-0.005503,0.006738,0.005688,-0.00493,-0.013616,-0.001197
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162,0.114961,0.126941,0.046763,0.030685,0.043085,0.011713,0.006815,0.000923,0.002863,0.006196,-0.010393,0.007343,-0.000297,-0.011147,0.005157,-0.005701,0.001173,0.003801,0.005656,0.002501,0.019965,0.000371,-0.000616,0.014821,-0.002634
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163,0.122929,0.139128,0.05242,0.022287,0.028313,0.005857,0.00799,-0.001615,0.001841,0.000911,-0.005196,-0.001349,-0.015163,-0.004817,0.001221,0.01843,0.020079,-0.000253,0.00352,0.008004,-0.003494,0.003091,-0.003821,0.009399,-0.003233
    Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852,0.1161,0.135065,0.040729,-0.007429,0.043393,0.001394,0.001645,0.005307,0.025361,0.036083,-0.013478,0.000599,-0.006838,-0.007569,0.00665,0.016309,0.015385,0.001014,0.00088,0.005503,0.00549,-0.005317,-0.00419,-0.010724,0.003353
    Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10853,0.112685,0.155376,0.017725,-0.002261,0.025851,0.002231,-0.002585,0.004615,0.029656,0.036447,-0.000974,0.003447,-0.012636,-0.013762,-0.0076,-0.007558,0.00352,-0.006081,-0.00264,-0.006628,0.007736,0.000742,-0.001109,0.006748,0.005149
    Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892,0.114961,0.147252,0.033187,-0.010659,0.040623,-0.000279,-0.003055,0.002077,0.02352,0.030798,-0.001461,0.006894,-0.012487,-0.009358,0.008143,-0.007558,-0.01356,-0.008868,0.002514,-0.007379,-0.000624,0.004946,0.002095,0.000482,-0.006586
    Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895,0.112685,0.144205,0.044123,-0.005168,0.040315,-0.00753,0.004465,0.000692,0.025156,0.028976,0.002923,0.004496,-0.015312,-0.016102,0.0038,-0.006364,-0.005085,-0.00228,-0.004274,-0.001626,0.004742,0.001113,0.002465,-0.001205,-0.003353
    Iberia_Northeast_CA:I4565,0.129758,0.167562,0.056191,-0.029393,0.08617,-0.0251,-0.006815,-0.001615,0.066061,0.099319,-0.001299,0.014987,-0.032408,-0.015276,-0.005565,0.008618,0.008214,0.013429,0.004777,-0.003126,0.016221,0.007419,-0.018734,-0.043259,0.002515
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8203,0.126344,0.14319,0.051288,0.021641,0.037238,-0.005299,0.00094,0.004846,0.024747,0.026971,-0.003897,0.008992,-0.025272,-0.026011,0.008822,0.004906,0.012126,-0.003547,0.003268,0.003627,0.007487,0.000618,-0.001972,0.004458,-0.00467
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8206,0.125205,0.127957,0.053928,0.048773,0.040931,0.013387,0.006815,0.006231,0.012067,0.014214,-0.001786,-0.005245,-0.015163,-0.018029,0.021444,0.011403,0.011735,0.010262,0.003897,0.009129,0.009733,-0.000989,-0.004807,0.016629,0.006227
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8209,0.12862,0.145221,0.054682,0.013243,0.043393,0.009761,-0.001175,0.006,0.026384,0.033167,-0.006658,0.018434,-0.016501,-0.023121,0.011401,0.004508,0.005085,0.000127,0.003897,-0.009254,0.001123,0.00507,0.002218,-0.009881,0.008263
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8214,0.130897,0.138112,0.058454,0.026809,0.046162,0.008367,-0.001175,-0.004154,0.016771,0.030069,-0.001624,0.009741,-0.022299,-0.014588,0.010586,0.00769,0.002868,0.002787,0.003645,0.001376,0.011105,0.006801,-0.00986,-0.012893,0.005628
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8208,0.1161,0.158423,-0.017348,-0.06783,0.026774,-0.032351,-0.00282,-0.001154,0.007158,0.04319,0.003573,0.015586,-0.017096,0.006468,-0.016965,-0.02559,-0.007693,-0.000253,0.00993,-0.017133,-0.003494,0.000866,0.005053,0.00241,-0.010538
    Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215,0.120652,0.158423,-0.000754,-0.066215,0.023697,-0.023427,0.00611,-0.009,0.002659,0.041914,0.002111,0.006894,-0.01665,0.000688,-0.020087,-0.005967,0.014864,0.001014,-0.000754,-0.008254,-0.013102,0.002226,-0.001725,0.011809,-0.006466
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10277,0.121791,0.173656,0.050911,-0.034884,0.090786,-0.01757,-0.004935,0.003,0.066061,0.090754,-0.003573,0.020532,-0.023786,-0.013349,-0.009636,0.011933,0.020079,0.005321,-0.005154,-0.005127,0.003369,0.000742,-0.015406,-0.034704,0.000838
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10278,0.121791,0.17264,0.050157,-0.044574,0.088324,-0.017849,-0.000705,0.006,0.072197,0.101141,0.005359,0.012889,-0.0278,-0.01156,0.003257,-0.011005,-0.009518,0.006461,0.002388,-0.000625,0.009109,0.000495,-0.017748,-0.046754,0.007065
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10280,0.130897,0.165531,0.055814,-0.045543,0.094171,-0.027331,-0.002115,-0.000462,0.056653,0.090936,-0.00341,0.018883,-0.032111,-0.025598,-0.004343,-0.003182,-0.002217,-0.005068,-0.000754,-0.005628,0.010232,0.008656,-0.020459,-0.03868,-0.003832
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285,0.132035,0.171624,0.065619,-0.029393,0.092633,-0.009203,-0.008695,0.007384,0.062584,0.090389,-0.001461,0.006744,-0.03107,-0.018992,0.006379,-0.007027,-0.004172,0.011909,0.000628,-0.008629,0.014599,0.006677,-0.013434,-0.039042,-0.000239
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10287,0.117238,0.169593,0.043369,-0.033915,0.093864,-0.028447,-0.002115,-0.000692,0.054812,0.095492,-0.004872,0.017385,-0.031516,-0.018166,-0.013029,0.013259,0.024512,-0.000633,-0.004525,-0.001376,0.012977,0.008656,-0.020213,-0.032776,-0.004431
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11305,0.130897,0.168578,0.042992,-0.050065,0.078784,-0.023148,-0.000705,0.006461,0.061971,0.096221,0.001137,0.023979,-0.038354,-0.02491,-0.016558,0.009812,0.021253,0.000253,-0.005782,-0.005378,0.01123,0.001484,-0.01442,-0.020605,0.000599
    Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11306,0.126344,0.171624,0.061471,-0.037468,0.092633,-0.0251,-0.015041,0.006,0.069743,0.096038,-0.007632,0.017085,-0.030327,-0.010459,-0.002036,-0.006099,-0.01356,0.004181,0.009553,-0.002126,0.019216,0.00915,-0.017378,-0.043862,0.005389
    Iberia_Northeast_RomP:I8339,0.129758,0.140143,0.048271,0.019703,0.056626,-0.00502,0.00282,-0.007615,0.031701,0.045923,-0.006171,0.004946,-0.010852,-0.006331,0.010043,0.014054,0.007171,0.00038,-0.003142,0.002876,0.004866,0.006925,-0.007272,0.000241,0.000479
    Iberia_Northeast_UP_Azilian:BAL051,0.101303,0.076165,0.144814,0.163762,0.136641,0.042112,0.00235,0.032537,0.08999,0.02934,-0.012666,-0.009891,-0.001338,-0.016652,0.047909,0.050119,0.00013,0.006461,-0.008925,0.058528,0.092337,0.014838,-0.052997,-0.158095,0.012095 

    Since we are wearing I will prove to myself that I am Andalusian

    Distance to: Karlos_scaled
    0.02390459 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
    0.03332549 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892
    0.04167169 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
    0.04185729 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
    0.04222330 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852
    0.04351254 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I3777
    0.04385475 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8203
    0.05096035 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10853
    0.05295242 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836
    0.05364093 Iberia_Northeast_RomP:I8339
    0.05627540 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4562
    0.05699892 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031
    0.06267726 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1310
    0.06351448 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4563
    0.06360881 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561
    0.06406900 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1313_d
    0.06524682 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032
    0.06727163 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162
    0.06765854 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4560
    0.06901739 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163
    0.07530671 Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4559
    0.07807269 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8206
    0.10676395 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215
    0.11104281 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285
    0.11444102 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10277
    0.11600957 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8208
    0.11686297 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10280
    0.11779538 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10287
    0.11958207 Iberia_Northeast_CA:I4565
    0.12003683 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11305
    0.12362155 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10278
    0.12433334 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11306





    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 2.1086% / 0.02108610
    61.0 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
    11.8 Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852
    5.4 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
    5.0 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892
    4.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8203
    1.6 Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    Target: Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
    Distance: 0.8736% / 0.00873641
    13.2 DEU_MA_o

    12.8 Corded_Ware_CHE_o

    12.4 UKR_N_o

    11.0 England_EMBA

    8.8 CZE_Starounetice_EBA

    6.0 Iberia_North_CA

    5.8 DEU_Karsdorf_LN

    5.4 DEU_Anselfingen_FN

    5.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Early_Christian

    4.4 Levant_PPNC

    3.8 USA_colonial_period

    3.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    2.8 DNK_BA

    2.8 MAR_Taforalt

    2.0 RUS_Petrovka_MLBA

    0.2 DEU_Lech_MBA

    0.2 ZAF_2000BP

    I have taken my first results with these Catalan samples. There is that Tarofalt cave very little 2.8. We usually take it out almost all, how many people were in that cave.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    Ancient G25 World Neolithic-Eneolithic Calculator


    Target: Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
    Distance: 4.0280% / 0.04028041
    41.6 FARMERS-Iberia_Neolithic
    28.8 STEPPE-Eneolithic
    11.4 FARMERS-Balkans_Neolithic
    8.8 HUNTERS-WHG
    4.0 LEVANT-Neolithic
    2.8 HUNTERS-SHG
    2.6 IBEROMAURUSIAN

    I have tried this other Catalan result of mine and it is also subscribed to Iberomaurusian, a bit like everyone.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Ack View Post
    Catalonia does not show any Moorish mix (unlike the rest of the peninsula). Catalonia follows the peak of Malta 1 ancestry as in the northwest part of the peninsula, but the center of the peninsula (also the Basques) has lower values ​​of ANE ancestry and higher levels of WHG ancestry. It seems that the Indo-European peoples were concentrated in the western part of the peninsula (nothing new) but the eastern part concentrates more WHG ancestry as well as the Basques, but Catalonia leaves the 'Basque' pattern and follows the northwestern Indo-European peak of the peninsula.
    Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01518
    Distance: 6.9207% / 0.06920656
    54.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    20.8 WHG
    12.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    10.8 RUS_MA1
    1.4 GEO_CHG

    Target: Spanish_Aragon:HG01675
    Distance: 5.2136% / 0.05213594
    51.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.8 WHG
    14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    10.0 RUS_MA1
    2.6 GEO_CHG
    1.6 MAR_Iberomaurusian

    Target: Spanish_Cataluna:HG01536
    Distance: 4.9751% / 0.04975077
    57.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.6 WHG
    14.6 RUS_MA1
    8.6 GEO_CHG

    Target: Portuguese:EBC_Portugal1
    Distance: 5.0376% / 0.05037571
    54.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    15.8 WHG
    14.2 RUS_MA1
    7.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    5.2 GEO_CHG
    3.0 MAR_Iberomaurusian


    Target: Spanish_Extremadura:HG01510
    Distance: 4.6142% / 0.04614193
    55.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    17.6 WHG
    12.2 RUS_MA1
    10.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    4.2 GEO_CHG
    0.8 MAR_Iberomaurusian
    Comparison with other regions
    Target: Italian_Lombardy:BGD31
    Distance: 5.5511% / 0.05551127
    51.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    27.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    11.8 WHG
    7.8 RUS_MA1
    1.8 GEO_CHG

    Target: Welsh
    Distance: 8.0972% / 0.08097181
    40.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    22.6 WHG
    18.8 RUS_MA1
    10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    8.0 GEO_CHG

    Target: French_Auvergne
    Distance: 5.7057% / 0.05705727
    52.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    18.6 WHG
    14.6 RUS_MA1
    8.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    6.0 GEO_CHG

    Target: French_Paris
    Distance: 6.9837% / 0.06983691
    47.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    19.4 WHG
    16.4 RUS_MA1
    10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    6.0 GEO_CHG

    Target: Italian_Lazio:NOR28
    Distance: 3.0378% / 0.03037840
    46.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    43.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    9.0 WHG
    1.4 RUS_MA1


    Target: Irish
    Distance: 8.6648% / 0.08664825
    38.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    22.4 WHG
    20.6 RUS_MA1
    9.4 GEO_CHG
    9.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    Interesting. But why don't you use averages instead individuals? You're also comparing old pops with a too recent one: IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic (ID I1955, only ~500 years old).
    Btw, I read somewhere that unscaled coordinates would be better when using too different clusters, or something. Researchers would supposedly use unscaled.
    Assuming you may be interested in checking ANE (which would explain the presence of MA1), an option could be using other very old components, avoiding those too similar. Such either Taforalt or Natufian (that would be related to each other, if my memory serves), Villabruna, MA1, and either HotuIIIb Meso or CHG (which btw also have ANE)...
    ANF per se derives mostly from AHG, which could be modeled as a mix of older components, such half WHG-like and half Natufian-like.
    Anyway, not sure that's the best way to check possible Moorish DNA in Catalans, if I got correctly your main goal.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    210
    Points
    6,629
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,629, Level: 24
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

    Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

    Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

    Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

    Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?
    Well in my case it would be from both parents and ancestors of the same population in at least a quarter of a century after nearby populations from the same region and my results with Andalusia are conspicuous by their absence and even if I were a product of the repopulation almost one hundred for a hundred it is impossible that I was the only one, for which reason tests for Andalusia may be lacking or discrimination is made when selecting the data to be entered.


    We already know the huge number of Andalusians and other regions in Catalonia and Barcelona province especially, practically most have married Catalans or Andalusians from different regions have mixed there or Andalusians with Galicians etc etc etc, all speak Catalan for what for the language cannot be identified as well as for the aspect for the homogeneity that we already have in Spain. In other words, the majority of people who have traveled to Barcelona have been seeing a large number of Andalusians speaking Catalan or a mix of Spanish regions speaking Catalan.


    The point is that I have never seen a Basque or a Catalan publish with both Catalan or Basque parents and ancestors, nor do I see Andalusians or Galicians publish and if they do it very timidly, how can I be almost the only one who publishes and who also does not I have no idea about all this.


    Through those worlds of God I have met people who pretended to be Andalusian with distances of 60 it is like because it is known that the Moors were there any result could strain.


    I think there is also someone out there who can extract from your file the values ​​you don't like, so that way we don't go anywhere if later that type of person is publishing.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

    Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

    Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?
    Some components involved above.

    Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
    The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
    Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
    MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
    This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
    Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

    Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
    Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
    HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    465
    Points
    3,357
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,357, Level: 16
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 93
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Some components involved above.

    Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
    The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
    Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
    MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
    This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
    Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

    Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
    Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
    HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.
    isn't natufian 70% dzudzuana like and 30% taforalt?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    isn't natufian 70% dzudzuana like and 30% taforalt?
    I'm affraid I inverted, since Taforalt would have had SSA ancestry, while Natufian would not. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, Taforalt had some Neanderthal, but Natufian didn't.

    "Among all possible no-admixture and two-way admixture models on this scaffold graph, the best model for Taforalt is a mixture of Natufian and Yoruba with a 30% contribution from a Yoruba-related branch, consistent with the qpAdm results (Fig. S19B)."
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/suppl/2018/03/14/science.aar8380.DC1/aar8380_vandeLoosdrecht_SM.pdf

    Perhaps someone else here has more info in hand about it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    @Ailchu
    I see what you're saying now.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...1/423079-1.pdf

    "The analysis using the All set showed that Levantine (Natufians and PPNB) and North African (Taforalt and Morocco_EN) populations could be modeled as a mixture of Dzudzuana with extra Basal Eurasian ancestry. The study of the Ibero-Maurusian remains from Taforalt was initially interpreted as suggesting that this population was formed by admixture between Natufians and a Sub-Saharan population15. However, the admixture graph model suggests the opposite scenario: that Natufians were formed by admixture from a Taforalt-related population and a Dzudzuana-related one"
    (...)
    "Taforalt could not be modeled as any 2-way mixture. The best model involving Natufians and an African population (Yoruba) could still be strongly rejected (p=2.7e-13). Taforalt could also not be modeled as a 3-way mixture. However, Natufians could be convincingly modeled as a 2-way mixture of ~86% Dzudzuana and ~14% Taforalt (p=0.405) with small standard errors of 1.9%. Thus the affinity between Natufians and Taforalt described in ref.15 may have come about by admixture from a North African/Taforalt-related population into Natufians, rather than by admixture in the opposite direction. The results of our analysis using the All set, as well as the results of the analysis of ref.15 do suggest that Taforalt can be modeled as a mixture of a West Eurasian related population (represented by Dzudzuana in our case) and a Sub-Saharan African lineage. However, when one uses only a single African population as a source without using others as outgroups, this mixture can only be interpreted as evidence of ancestry from a lineage basal to members of the All set, rather than as evidence of ancestry specifically specifically 44 related to the chosen African population. No Sub-Saharan African populations appear to be good sources for the ancestry of Taforalt as described previously. The admixture graph model suggests an alternative possibility: that it is West African populations like the Yoruba that may have ancestry from a North African Taforalt-like population. Under such a scenario, North Africa and the Levant were occupied by populations that experienced gene flow from each other, with more ancestry from a Basal lineage in North Africa, and more ancestry from a West Eurasian specific lineage (represented by Dzudzuana) in the Levant, thus explaining the presence of Dzudzuana related admixture in Taforalt and of Taforalt-related admixture in the Levant. Under this scenario, a North African-related population may have contributed some ancestry to Sub-Saharan populations to its south, perhaps during the Holocene Green Sahara period (~11-6kya)22 that postdates the sampled Taforalt individual which may have facilitated north→south gene flow across the Sahara. Based on the very low presence of Neandertal admixture in Yoruba, it has been estimated that >2.7±0.9% of the ancestry of Yoruba came from West Eurasia 9618 ± 1825 years ago 23 . The admixture graph model predicts that 13% of the ancestry of Yoruba came from Taforalt, which in turn was 55% descended from Dzudzuana and which in turn was 72% descended from Villabruna, for a total of 0.13*0.55*0.72≈5% Villabruna-related ancestry that would have carried Neanderthal DNA. This is consistent with the >2.7±0.9% estimate of ref. 2"
    (...)

    Yoruba with 5% of Villabruna-related ancestry. Interesting!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    210
    Points
    6,629
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,629, Level: 24
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Some components involved above.

    Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
    The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
    Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
    MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
    This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
    Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

    Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
    Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
    HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.
    A serious question: is it reasonable to give %, with some samples being 24.000 years old, and others much "younger"?

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534

    G25 Ancient Averages scaled, official datasheet


    Target: MAR_Taforalt
    Distance: 3.0025% / 0.03002541
    97.0 MAR_EN
    1.8 ETH_4500BP
    0.8 TZA_Pemba_600BP
    0.4 TWN_Gongguan

    If I remove the other MAR N Tarofalt sample from the source you get this.

    Target: MAR_Taforalt
    Distance: 19.8339% / 0.19833939
    87.4 ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    8.8 ZAF_400BP
    3.6 KEN_Pastoral_IA
    0.2 VUT_150BP_all


    I am trying to see why we Spaniards are subscribed in Tarofalt, it always comes out as a tagline


    G25 Ancient Individual Samples scaled, official datasheet


    Same for individual

    Out another sanples tarofalt

    Target: MAR_Taforalt
    Distance: 19.8094% / 0.19809449
    85.0 ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940
    8.4 ZAF_400BP:new001
    6.4 TZA_PN:I13981
    0.2 VUT_150BP_all:I4450_all

    Some type of concrete basal may coincide with the Iberian peninsula rather than being a migration. We always get Tarofalt at a low value but by the time of the foundation it had to have been a migration with a huge number of individuals to have anchored in the modern Spanish heritage and I doubt that such a large migration would have taken place at that time.


    I don't know, but the modern Spanish subscription to Iberomarusian and Tarofalt doesn't quite match. Well and also in older samples as seen here in the old Catalan samples


    My own example. Some appear and disappear on different calculators but we are subscribed to Tarofalt. Curiously now I have seen that Sardinia is just behind. I don't know if it has to do more with something basal than really a direct Tarofalt result.

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 0.9304% / 0.00930425
    20.6 CZE_Starounetice_EBA
    18.4 DEU_Anselfingen_FN
    14.8 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    13.2 IRL_MN
    5.8 USA_colonial_period
    5.2 Corded_Ware_CHE_o
    3.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
    3.4 MAR_Taforalt
    3.2 ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    2.4 UKR_N_o
    2.0 GEO_CHG
    2.0 Iberia_Menorca_LBA
    1.8 RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
    1.4 Levant_PPNC
    1.0 HRV_Vucedol
    0.6 DEU_MA_o
    0.4 HRV_EBA

    If I eliminate Tarofalt, it is exactly Sardinia that increases and Iberia Menorca appears, which also in MTA I have Deep Dive. Bell Beaker Iberia also appears. And if it is a sample in itself with incomplete results or I do not know we are finding it a hindrance in the calculators. Menorca and Bell Beaker Iberia were hiding from me. This how can it be, of that nothing, here is something that is not right with Tarofalt sample.


    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 0.9344% / 0.00934374
    20.2 DEU_Anselfingen_FN
    19.4 CZE_Starounetice_EBA
    11.8 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    10.2 IRL_MN
    6.2 Iberia_Menorca_LBA

    5.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
    5.0 ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    4.6 USA_colonial_period
    4.0 Corded_Ware_CHE_o
    2.8 UKR_N_o
    2.2 MAR_EN
    2.0 GEO_CHG
    1.6 DEU_MA_o
    1.4 Levant_PPNC
    1.0 HRV_EBA
    1.0 RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
    0.6 HRV_Vucedol
    0.2 DEU_Karsdorf_LN
    0.2 RUS_Yana_MA


    My Deep Dive with Menorca sample


    I think that Tarofalt is a baseline result for the Spaniards under false flag
    Last edited by Carlos; 03-06-20 at 16:28.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    A serious question: is it reasonable to give %, with some samples being 24.000 years old, and others much "younger"?
    Yes, it can cause problems sometimes. If the populations are far enough genetically, even being from different times, it's better. It also depends on the goal, I guess. Sometimes people use related pops to separate "extra" ancestry. Or they may want to "overfit" the model to better isolate some specific component and estimate a minimal contribution of it. In this case, the %s per se as a whole would not matter that much; just a specific one would be more, say, "informative".

    @Carlos
    Firstly, I think the Taforalt influence will not necessarily correspond to the Moorish one. That said, in my opinion it's not intuitive to think that there were not significant gene flow between Morocco and Iberia, in both directions, after thousand and thousand of years. I guess that a bit of this "Taforalt-like" ancestry may have reached some other parts of Europe as well, even if weakly compared to Iberia.

    You could try a model in G25 with ANF (Barcin), Levant Neo, CHG or Iran, Loschbour, Yamnaya and Taforalt (or Morocco Early Neo, which is very similar). You could also include as target pops such South French, North French, Dutch, English... To see what results they'd get for Taforalt-related ancestry.

    If you use more recent components such Iberia Chalco, Anatolia MBA etc., you'd get lower %s for Taforalt, perhaps because part of what you found in the first model would be supposedly hidden in Iberia Chalco.

    When Moorish arrived in Iberia, they possibly had a bit of shared ancestry with Europeans too. They must have carried Taforalt-like and also other components then, but I have no idea on the impact of "actual" Moorish DNA over Iberia.

    Out of curiosity, one of the theories regarding the origin of a very important cultural item of my birth state Rio Grande do Sul, the "bombacha", is that it came from Moors, through Iberians. :)



    The culture of the "gaucho" is strongly Iberian, and even people with no or few Iberian ancestry in South Brazil were heavily influenced by it.
    Another item that became very important in all Rio Grande do Sul, independently of ancestry, is the "chimarrão", originally Native American:


  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    The theme of fashion is very random. The typical Andalusian costume also called sevillana or flamenco was an adaptation of the high-ranking ladies of Seville of some simple costumes that they saw the gypsy women wear and there is nothing genetics involved.


    Maybe the suits that the high-ranking women of Seville looked at, a suit with some ruffles



    And the evolution into a typical costume that does not stop evolving and follows fashion as is the typical Andalusian costume

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    G25 Ancient Averages scaled, official datasheet

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 0.9304% / 0.00930362
    20.8 CZE_Starounetice_EBA
    18.6 DEU_Anselfingen_FN
    14.4 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    12.0 IRL_MN
    5.4 USA_colonial_period
    5.0 Corded_Ware_CHE_o
    4.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
    3.6 ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    3.2 MAR_Taforalt
    2.4 UKR_N_o
    2.0 Iberia_Menorca_LBA
    1.8 GEO_CHG
    1.8 RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
    1.6 HRV_Vucedol
    1.4 Levant_PPNC
    0.8 DEU_MA_o
    0.4 DEU_Karsdorf_LN
    0.2 HRV_EBA

    Target: Juan_scaled
    Distance: 0.5342% / 0.00534221
    10.6 Iberia_North_MLN
    9.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    9.2 FRA_IA
    8.8 Iberia_Northeast_MLN
    6.4 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
    6.0 CHE_LN
    5.6 CZE_Starounetice_EBA
    4.4 FRA_BA
    3.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    3.4 Iberia_Southeast_CA
    3.2 DEU_MA
    3.2 MAR_Taforalt
    2.8 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    2.6 HRV_Sopot_MN
    2.4 RUS_Afanasievo
    2.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    2.2 RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
    2.0 GEO_CHG
    2.0 Iberia_Southwest_CA
    2.0 ITA_Sardinia_EBA
    2.0 KEN_Pastoral_N
    1.6 Levant_PPNC
    1.2 DEU_Anselfingen_FN
    1.2 England_CA_EBA
    0.6 HUN_Starcevo_N
    0.4 ITA_Collegno_MA
    0.2 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
    0.2 UKR_Trypillia

    G25 Modern Averages scaled, official datasheet

    Introducing one sample Tarofalt

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 1.4942% / 0.01494159
    27.2 Spanish_Menorca
    25.2 Basque_French
    23.4 Basque_Spanish
    6.6 North_Ossetian
    6.4 Spanish_La_Rioja
    3.0 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
    2.4 MAR_Taforalt
    1.8 Datog
    1.6 Spanish_Soria
    1.6 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
    0.6 Lithuanian_PZ
    0.2 Ket

    G25 modern individual samples, scaled, official datasheet

    Introducing one sample Tarofalt

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 0.8666% / 0.00866641
    21.8 Basque_Spanish
    21.0 Sardinian
    18.8 Irish
    8.8 Portuguese
    6.6 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
    5.4 French_South
    5.0 Abkhasian
    3.6 Basque_French
    2.8 MAR_Taforalt
    2.4 Polish
    1.6 Somali_Kenya
    0.6 Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator
    0.6 Ket
    0.6 North_Ossetian
    0.2 Dutch
    0.2 Ju_hoan_North

    Supreeeme G25 Language families (scaled)

    Introducing one sample Tarofalt

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 1.9909% / 0.01990871
    91.6 Western_Romance
    3.0 Balto-Slavic
    2.6 Cushitic
    2.0 Northwest_Caucasian
    0.8 MAR_Taforalt


    To me this already seems like a subscription to that sample. That sample has been completed or guessed in some way with respect to Iberia put it where you put it there as if we were subscribed to it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsThree Friends

    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,278
    Points
    32,707
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,707, Level: 55
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 343
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Spain



    Ultimate Modern World K=50 Calculator for G25

    Introducing one sample Tarofalt


    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 1.6843% / 0.01684307
    76.4 Basque
    8.8 Iberian
    7.8 Abkhasian_Georgian
    2.6 MAR_Taforalt
    2.4 Somali_Oromo
    1.6 Balto_Slavic_South
    0.4 Uralic

    No matter which calculator is chosen if a Tarofalt sample is introduced there it will come out, I don't know who will believe this. With this sample there is a cat locked up.

    MODERN EUROPE G25 2.0 by Celtíbero Itálico

    Introducing one sample Tarofalt

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 1.8724% / 0.01872371
    49.8 Basque_Country
    16.6 South_France
    9.8 Sardinian
    8.0 West_Iberia
    6.4 Caucasus
    3.2 Scandinavia
    2.6 MAR_Taforalt
    2.4 East_Africa
    1.2 Baltic_States

    Subscribed to a cave where I've never been

    Taforalt or Grotte des Pigeons is a cave in northern Oujda, Morocco, and possibly the oldest cemetery in North Africa (Humphrey et al. 2012). It contained at least 34 Iberomaurusian adolescent and adult human skeletons, as well as younger ones, from the Upper Palaeolithic between 15,100 and 14,000 calendar years ago. There is archaeological evidence for Iberomaurusian occupation at the site between 23,200 and 12,600 calendar years ago, as well as evidence for Aterian occupation as old as 85,000 years.

    How lucky no? get it on any calculator where you enter it be modern old or even more modern

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 members found this post helpful.
    @Carlos

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    By the way, where is it stated that in Catalonia there is no genetic imprint of the Moors? I would like to read more about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    When Moorish arrived in Iberia, they possibly had a bit of shared ancestry with Europeans too. They must have carried Taforalt-like and also other components then, but I have no idea on the impact of "actual" Moorish DNA over Iberia.
    Farstar, in the case you're interested, I found this paper on the subject:
    Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w

    It was discussed here:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ysis-of-Iberia

    The Moorish genetic contribution would vary substantially among Iberians, which is expected. We see in the Supplementary:
    "The North Moroccan component steadily declines from 11% in the far west to near 0% in the Basque region. The pattern of North Moroccan contributions is similar to the Western Saharan contributions, and approximately opposite to the pattern of French contributions."

    About Basques they say:
    "Specifically the Basque share even more DNA with the French group than predicted by their mixture representation, which might reflect, for example, that the DNA the Basque share with present-day French is only a subset of modern French ancestry. This pattern is seen for other Spanish groups also, but to a much lesser extent."

    Galicia-Portugal seems to have the highest contribution from Morocco (11%), while Aragon-Cataluna has the lowest (apart Basques):


    More (you can find a more complete version in Figure 5 at Supplementary Info:


    Patterns of genetic differentiation:


    It doesn't perfectly correlate to E-M81 map from Eupedia:


    Later I'll try to see how all the above relate with Taforalt admixture according to G25:
    http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

  23. #23
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    465
    Points
    3,357
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,357, Level: 16
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 93
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Yes, it can cause problems sometimes. If the populations are far enough genetically, even being from different times, it's better. It also depends on the goal, I guess. Sometimes people use related pops to separate "extra" ancestry. Or they may want to "overfit" the model to better isolate some specific component and estimate a minimal contribution of it. In this case, the %s per se as a whole would not matter that much; just a specific one would be more, say, "informative".

    @Carlos


    When Moorish arrived in Iberia, they possibly had a bit of shared ancestry with Europeans too. They must have carried Taforalt-like and also other components then, but I have no idea on the impact of "actual" Moorish DNA over Iberia.




    most of their ancestry was probably "european-like", dzudzuana levant related and also from WHG. the taforalt part is itself partially westeurasian.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    210
    Points
    6,629
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,629, Level: 24
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 421
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Farstar, in the case you're interested, I found this paper on the subject:
    Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w

    It was discussed here:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ysis-of-Iberia

    The Moorish genetic contribution would vary substantially among Iberians, which is expected. We see in the Supplementary:
    "The North Moroccan component steadily declines from 11% in the far west to near 0% in the Basque region. The pattern of North Moroccan contributions is similar to the Western Saharan contributions, and approximately opposite to the pattern of French contributions."

    About Basques they say:
    "Specifically the Basque share even more DNA with the French group than predicted by their mixture representation, which might reflect, for example, that the DNA the Basque share with present-day French is only a subset of modern French ancestry. This pattern is seen for other Spanish groups also, but to a much lesser extent."

    Galicia-Portugal seems to have the highest contribution from Morocco (11%), while Aragon-Cataluna has the lowest (apart Basques):


    More (you can find a more complete version in Figure 5 at Supplementary Info:


    Patterns of genetic differentiation:


    It doesn't perfectly correlate to E-M81 map from Eupedia:


    Later I'll try to see how all the above relate with Taforalt admixture according to G25:
    http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/
    According to this paper, then, the myth of the "Reconquista" being from Asturias (i.e. people from Asturias resisted the Moors the most) is apparently wrong, and instead, the Basques and the Catalans are the ones that resisted the Moors the most, right? ("resist" meaning not only in fighting, but in not integrating them into the society, and differentiating "us from them").

  25. #25
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Regio X's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-03-14
    Posts
    886
    Points
    18,254
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,254, Level: 41
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 696
    Overall activity: 40.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    most of their ancestry was probably "european-like", dzudzuana levant related and also from WHG. the taforalt part is itself partially westeurasian.
    If Taforalt is basically 55% Dzudzuana plus "extra-Basal", it's basically ~40% Villabruna-related plus ~60% Basal. Looks W. Eurasian-related, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farstar View Post
    According to this paper, then, the myth of the "Reconquista" being from Asturias (i.e. people from Asturias resisted the Moors the most) is apparently wrong, and instead, the Basques and the Catalans are the ones that resisted the Moors the most, right? ("resist" meaning not only in fighting, but in not integrating them into the society, and differentiating "us from them").
    I lack the basic knowledge to opine regarding the way Iberians resisted.

    Let's see Taforalt under G25 perspective. I included also Barcin, Loschbour, CHG and Iran Meso trying to "catch" some occasional excesses, but the last two make no difference in this model specifically. Assuming (most of) Levant related ancestry likely arrived in Iberia through Anatolia BA as well, and since CHG and Iran Meso don't affect the model, I assumed that adding Natufian-related ancestry could affect actual Taforalt/Moroccan Early Neo ancestry, given their similarity. Finally, I used Iberia "Central" CA trying a possible "average" for that period.



    The %s for Taforalt in this model based on G25 don't correspond to the "Moorish" %s found by the paper I quoted. Those from G25 tend to be lower, whereas these from the paper tend to be higher.
    Modern N. Moroccans themselves get less than 50% of Taforalt/Morocco Early Neolithic, and their ancestry is also affected by Iberian Chalcolithic. I don't know how those actual "Moorish" DNA, from almost 1500 years ago, would fit in this G25 model.
    Last edited by Regio X; 06-06-20 at 21:48.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •