What would explain this in Catalonia?

Ack

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Catalonia does not show any Moorish mix (unlike the rest of the peninsula). Catalonia follows the peak of Malta 1 ancestry as in the northwest part of the peninsula, but the center of the peninsula (also the Basques) has lower values ​​of ANE ancestry and higher levels of WHG ancestry. It seems that the Indo-European peoples were concentrated in the western part of the peninsula (nothing new) but the eastern part concentrates more WHG ancestry as well as the Basques, but Catalonia leaves the 'Basque' pattern and follows the northwestern Indo-European peak of the peninsula.

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01518
Distance: 6.9207% / 0.06920656

54.8Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.8WHG
12.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
10.8RUS_MA1
1.4GEO_CHG


Target: Spanish_Aragon:HG01675
Distance: 5.2136% / 0.05213594

51.8Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.8WHG
14.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
10.0RUS_MA1
2.6GEO_CHG
1.6MAR_Iberomaurusian


Target: Spanish_Cataluna:HG01536
Distance: 4.9751% / 0.04975077

57.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.6WHG
14.6RUS_MA1
8.6GEO_CHG


Target: Portuguese:EBC_Portugal1
Distance: 5.0376% / 0.05037571

54.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
15.8WHG
14.2RUS_MA1
7.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
5.2GEO_CHG
3.0MAR_Iberomaurusian


Target: Spanish_Extremadura:HG01510
Distance: 4.6142% / 0.04614193

55.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
17.6WHG
12.2RUS_MA1
10.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
4.2GEO_CHG
0.8MAR_Iberomaurusian


Comparison with other regions

Target: Italian_Lombardy:BGD31
Distance: 5.5511% / 0.05551127

51.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
11.8WHG
7.8RUS_MA1
1.8GEO_CHG


Target: Welsh
Distance: 8.0972% / 0.08097181

40.0Anatolia_Barcin_N
22.6WHG
18.8RUS_MA1
10.6IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
8.0GEO_CHG


Target: French_Auvergne
Distance: 5.7057% / 0.05705727

52.0Anatolia_Barcin_N
18.6WHG
14.6RUS_MA1
8.8IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
6.0GEO_CHG


Target: French_Paris
Distance: 6.9837% / 0.06983691

47.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.4WHG
16.4RUS_MA1
10.6IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
6.0GEO_CHG


Target: Italian_Lazio:NOR28
Distance: 3.0378% / 0.03037840

46.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
43.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
9.0WHG
1.4RUS_MA1


Target: Irish
Distance: 8.6648% / 0.08664825

38.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
22.4WHG
20.6RUS_MA1
9.4GEO_CHG
9.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
 
Maybe they will be doing reviews and many more tests sometimes there are results that seem to be getting old. And there are so many agendas, God what a waste of time.
 
Of course, I have no clue. But it comes to my mind that Catalonia has traditionally been linked to the Occitània, on the south-east of France. In fact, during the last centuries there was quite a lot of exchange of population (mostly from Occitània to Catalonia).

This hypothesis would be consistent with the Auvergne data, which is geographically more or less close to Occitània (on the north).
 
By the way, where is it stated that in Catalonia there is no genetic imprint of the Moors? I would like to read more about this.
 
These coordinates are from Northeast, I think that's Catalonia, right? I mean North East, I would say yes.

Code:
 [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1310,0.121791,0.152329,0.059208,0.007429,0.070782,-0.009482,-0.00329,-0.001846,0.039473,0.05704,-0.001299,0.010191,-0.017393,-0.017203,0.005429,0.015248,0.016298,-0.006841,-0.000628,0.002126,-0.001622,0.006183,-0.007518,-0.025064,-0.000599[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836,0.129758,0.157407,0.058454,-0.00323,0.059396,-0.000558,-0.00141,-0.003231,0.039064,0.04811,0.00065,0.006145,-0.029435,-0.021332,0.002443,0.011535,0.008214,0.000127,-0.00176,-0.001251,0.008859,0.010016,-0.007765,-0.016629,-0.007544[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4559,0.12862,0.14319,0.062979,0.006783,0.07386,-0.004462,0.006345,0.000231,0.047859,0.062689,0.000325,0.008093,-0.021407,-0.020368,-0.000679,0.02254,0.015646,-0.005068,0.00176,0.013506,0.010731,0.004328,-0.010723,-0.016267,0.002395[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673,0.111547,0.147252,0.038843,0.009044,0.047701,-0.001394,-0.00376,0.010615,0.027202,0.02934,-0.007795,0.005395,-0.006838,-0.003441,0.008143,0.001193,-0.021513,0.003421,-0.006536,0.005753,-0.001373,0.011005,-0.010969,0.003374,-0.005269[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031,0.126344,0.133034,0.039598,0.017119,0.03416,0.007809,0.009635,0.009461,0.002659,0.004738,-0.006658,-0.002548,-0.009068,-0.003165,0.002307,-0.003315,0.004303,0.003547,-0.008296,0.006128,-0.000499,0.001237,-0.002711,0.00482,-0.008263[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032,0.142279,0.145221,0.04978,0.030039,0.03139,0.010877,-0.00047,0.013153,0.011862,0.011116,-0.006333,0.013038,-0.01888,-0.00234,0.004886,0.008221,0.004563,0.012162,0.002263,0.013006,0.010232,-0.000618,-0.001356,-0.002651,0.000838[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034,0.130897,0.139128,0.0445,0.01615,0.052317,-0.001394,0.00047,0,0.021475,0.036447,-0.000974,0.017085,-0.019623,-0.009358,0.017644,0.009281,0.000522,-0.00152,-0.009804,-0.005503,0.006738,0.005688,-0.00493,-0.013616,-0.001197[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162,0.114961,0.126941,0.046763,0.030685,0.043085,0.011713,0.006815,0.000923,0.002863,0.006196,-0.010393,0.007343,-0.000297,-0.011147,0.005157,-0.005701,0.001173,0.003801,0.005656,0.002501,0.019965,0.000371,-0.000616,0.014821,-0.002634[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163,0.122929,0.139128,0.05242,0.022287,0.028313,0.005857,0.00799,-0.001615,0.001841,0.000911,-0.005196,-0.001349,-0.015163,-0.004817,0.001221,0.01843,0.020079,-0.000253,0.00352,0.008004,-0.003494,0.003091,-0.003821,0.009399,-0.003233[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852,0.1161,0.135065,0.040729,-0.007429,0.043393,0.001394,0.001645,0.005307,0.025361,0.036083,-0.013478,0.000599,-0.006838,-0.007569,0.00665,0.016309,0.015385,0.001014,0.00088,0.005503,0.00549,-0.005317,-0.00419,-0.010724,0.003353[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10853,0.112685,0.155376,0.017725,-0.002261,0.025851,0.002231,-0.002585,0.004615,0.029656,0.036447,-0.000974,0.003447,-0.012636,-0.013762,-0.0076,-0.007558,0.00352,-0.006081,-0.00264,-0.006628,0.007736,0.000742,-0.001109,0.006748,0.005149[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892,0.114961,0.147252,0.033187,-0.010659,0.040623,-0.000279,-0.003055,0.002077,0.02352,0.030798,-0.001461,0.006894,-0.012487,-0.009358,0.008143,-0.007558,-0.01356,-0.008868,0.002514,-0.007379,-0.000624,0.004946,0.002095,0.000482,-0.006586[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895,0.112685,0.144205,0.044123,-0.005168,0.040315,-0.00753,0.004465,0.000692,0.025156,0.028976,0.002923,0.004496,-0.015312,-0.016102,0.0038,-0.006364,-0.005085,-0.00228,-0.004274,-0.001626,0.004742,0.001113,0.002465,-0.001205,-0.003353[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_CA:I4565,0.129758,0.167562,0.056191,-0.029393,0.08617,-0.0251,-0.006815,-0.001615,0.066061,0.099319,-0.001299,0.014987,-0.032408,-0.015276,-0.005565,0.008618,0.008214,0.013429,0.004777,-0.003126,0.016221,0.007419,-0.018734,-0.043259,0.002515[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8209,0.12862,0.145221,0.054682,0.013243,0.043393,0.009761,-0.001175,0.006,0.026384,0.033167,-0.006658,0.018434,-0.016501,-0.023121,0.011401,0.004508,0.005085,0.000127,0.003897,-0.009254,0.001123,0.00507,0.002218,-0.009881,0.008263[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8208,0.1161,0.158423,-0.017348,-0.06783,0.026774,-0.032351,-0.00282,-0.001154,0.007158,0.04319,0.003573,0.015586,-0.017096,0.006468,-0.016965,-0.02559,-0.007693,-0.000253,0.00993,-0.017133,-0.003494,0.000866,0.005053,0.00241,-0.010538[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285,0.132035,0.171624,0.065619,-0.029393,0.092633,-0.009203,-0.008695,0.007384,0.062584,0.090389,-0.001461,0.006744,-0.03107,-0.018992,0.006379,-0.007027,-0.004172,0.011909,0.000628,-0.008629,0.014599,0.006677,-0.013434,-0.039042,-0.000239[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10287,0.117238,0.169593,0.043369,-0.033915,0.093864,-0.028447,-0.002115,-0.000692,0.054812,0.095492,-0.004872,0.017385,-0.031516,-0.018166,-0.013029,0.013259,0.024512,-0.000633,-0.004525,-0.001376,0.012977,0.008656,-0.020213,-0.032776,-0.004431[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Iberia_Northeast_UP_Azilian:BAL051,0.101303,0.076165,0.144814,0.163762,0.136641,0.042112,0.00235,0.032537,0.08999,0.02934,-0.012666,-0.009891,-0.001338,-0.016652,0.047909,0.050119,0.00013,0.006461,-0.008925,0.058528,0.092337,0.014838,-0.052997,-0.158095,0.012095 [/FONT][/COLOR]

Since we are wearing I will prove to myself that I am Andalusian

Distance to:Karlos_scaled
0.02390459Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
0.03332549Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892
0.04167169Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
0.04185729Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
0.04222330Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852
0.04351254Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I3777
0.04385475Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8203
0.05096035Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10853
0.05295242Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1836
0.05364093Iberia_Northeast_RomP:I8339
0.05627540Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4562
0.05699892Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12031
0.06267726Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1310
0.06351448Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4563
0.06360881Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4561
0.06406900Iberia_Northeast_BA:I1313_d
0.06524682Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12032
0.06727163Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12162
0.06765854Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4560
0.06901739Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12163
0.07530671Iberia_Northeast_BA:I4559
0.07807269Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8206
0.10676395Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215
0.11104281Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285
0.11444102Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10277
0.11600957Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8208
0.11686297Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10280
0.11779538Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10287
0.11958207Iberia_Northeast_CA:I4565
0.12003683Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11305
0.12362155Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10278
0.12433334Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I11306





Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 2.1086% / 0.02108610

61.0Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
11.8Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL:I12034
11.2Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10852
5.4Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
5.0Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892
4.0Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1:I8203
1.6Iberia_Northeast_MLN:I10285
 
Target: Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895
Distance: 0.8736% / 0.00873641
13.2DEU_MA_o

12.8Corded_Ware_CHE_o

12.4UKR_N_o

11.0England_EMBA

8.8CZE_Starounetice_EBA

6.0Iberia_North_CA

5.8DEU_Karsdorf_LN

5.4DEU_Anselfingen_FN

5.0ISL_Viking_Age_Early_Christian

4.4Levant_PPNC

3.8USA_colonial_period

3.4FIN_Levanluhta_IA

2.8DNK_BA

2.8MAR_Taforalt

2.0RUS_Petrovka_MLBA

0.2DEU_Lech_MBA

0.2ZAF_2000BP

I have taken my first results with these Catalan samples. There is that Tarofalt cave very little 2.8. We usually take it out almost all, how many people were in that cave.
 
Ancient G25 World Neolithic-Eneolithic Calculator


Target: Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES:I7673
Distance: 4.0280% / 0.04028041
41.6FARMERS-Iberia_Neolithic
28.8STEPPE-Eneolithic
11.4FARMERS-Balkans_Neolithic
8.8HUNTERS-WHG
4.0LEVANT-Neolithic
2.8HUNTERS-SHG
2.6IBEROMAURUSIAN

I have tried this other Catalan result of mine and it is also subscribed to Iberomaurusian, a bit like everyone.
 
Catalonia does not show any Moorish mix (unlike the rest of the peninsula). Catalonia follows the peak of Malta 1 ancestry as in the northwest part of the peninsula, but the center of the peninsula (also the Basques) has lower values ​​of ANE ancestry and higher levels of WHG ancestry. It seems that the Indo-European peoples were concentrated in the western part of the peninsula (nothing new) but the eastern part concentrates more WHG ancestry as well as the Basques, but Catalonia leaves the 'Basque' pattern and follows the northwestern Indo-European peak of the peninsula.
Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01518
Distance: 6.9207% / 0.06920656
54.8Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.8WHG
12.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
10.8RUS_MA1
1.4GEO_CHG

Target: Spanish_Aragon:HG01675
Distance: 5.2136% / 0.05213594
51.8Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.8WHG
14.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
10.0RUS_MA1
2.6GEO_CHG
1.6MAR_Iberomaurusian

Target: Spanish_Cataluna:HG01536
Distance: 4.9751% / 0.04975077
57.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.6WHG
14.6RUS_MA1
8.6GEO_CHG

Target: Portuguese:EBC_Portugal1
Distance: 5.0376% / 0.05037571
54.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
15.8WHG
14.2RUS_MA1
7.2IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
5.2GEO_CHG
3.0MAR_Iberomaurusian

Target: Spanish_Extremadura:HG01510
Distance: 4.6142% / 0.04614193
55.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
17.6WHG
12.2RUS_MA1
10.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
4.2GEO_CHG
0.8MAR_Iberomaurusian
Comparison with other regions
Target: Italian_Lombardy:BGD31
Distance: 5.5511% / 0.05551127
51.2Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
11.8WHG
7.8RUS_MA1
1.8GEO_CHG

Target: Welsh
Distance: 8.0972% / 0.08097181
40.0Anatolia_Barcin_N
22.6WHG
18.8RUS_MA1
10.6IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
8.0GEO_CHG

Target: French_Auvergne
Distance: 5.7057% / 0.05705727
52.0Anatolia_Barcin_N
18.6WHG
14.6RUS_MA1
8.8IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
6.0GEO_CHG

Target: French_Paris
Distance: 6.9837% / 0.06983691
47.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.4WHG
16.4RUS_MA1
10.6IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
6.0GEO_CHG

Target: Italian_Lazio:NOR28
Distance: 3.0378% / 0.03037840
46.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
43.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
9.0WHG
1.4RUS_MA1

Target: Irish
Distance: 8.6648% / 0.08664825
38.6Anatolia_Barcin_N
22.4WHG
20.6RUS_MA1
9.4GEO_CHG
9.0IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
Interesting. But why don't you use averages instead individuals? You're also comparing old pops with a too recent one: IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic (ID I1955, only ~500 years old).
Btw, I read somewhere that unscaled coordinates would be better when using too different clusters, or something. Researchers would supposedly use unscaled.
Assuming you may be interested in checking ANE (which would explain the presence of MA1), an option could be using other very old components, avoiding those too similar. Such either Taforalt or Natufian (that would be related to each other, if my memory serves), Villabruna, MA1, and either HotuIIIb Meso or CHG (which btw also have ANE)...
ANF per se derives mostly from AHG, which could be modeled as a mix of older components, such half WHG-like and half Natufian-like.
Anyway, not sure that's the best way to check possible Moorish DNA in Catalans, if I got correctly your main goal.
 
I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?
 
I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?

Well in my case it would be from both parents and ancestors of the same population in at least a quarter of a century after nearby populations from the same region and my results with Andalusia are conspicuous by their absence and even if I were a product of the repopulation almost one hundred for a hundred it is impossible that I was the only one, for which reason tests for Andalusia may be lacking or discrimination is made when selecting the data to be entered.


We already know the huge number of Andalusians and other regions in Catalonia and Barcelona province especially, practically most have married Catalans or Andalusians from different regions have mixed there or Andalusians with Galicians etc etc etc, all speak Catalan for what for the language cannot be identified as well as for the aspect for the homogeneity that we already have in Spain. In other words, the majority of people who have traveled to Barcelona have been seeing a large number of Andalusians speaking Catalan or a mix of Spanish regions speaking Catalan.


The point is that I have never seen a Basque or a Catalan publish with both Catalan or Basque parents and ancestors, nor do I see Andalusians or Galicians publish and if they do it very timidly, how can I be almost the only one who publishes and who also does not I have no idea about all this.


Through those worlds of God I have met people who pretended to be Andalusian with distances of 60 it is like because it is known that the Moors were there any result could strain.


I think there is also someone out there who can extract from your file the values ​​you don't like, so that way we don't go anywhere if later that type of person is publishing.
 
I have a basic question: how old are the reference populations?

Carlos is using his own data for this. I would probably agree with him that on average, now populations are quite mixed, due to (very recent) demographic changes. For example, myself (a Catalan), I am a mix of a south east Spaniard (my mom) and a Catalan (my father). So my data is probably mixed (but my father, probably not).

Is it possible, for the people who know about these issues, to clarify the times in which all these samples are referenced in time?
Some components involved above.

Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.
 
Some components involved above.

Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.

isn't natufian 70% dzudzuana like and 30% taforalt?
 
isn't natufian 70% dzudzuana like and 30% taforalt?
I'm affraid I inverted, since Taforalt would have had SSA ancestry, while Natufian would not. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, Taforalt had some Neanderthal, but Natufian didn't.

"Among all possible no-admixture and two-way admixture models on this scaffold graph, the best model for Taforalt is a mixture of Natufian and Yoruba with a 30% contribution from a Yoruba-related branch, consistent with the qpAdm results (Fig. S19B)."
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/suppl/2018/03/14/science.aar8380.DC1/aar8380_vandeLoosdrecht_SM.pdf

Perhaps someone else here has more info in hand about it.
 
@Ailchu
I see what you're saying now.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2018/09/20/423079.DC1/423079-1.pdf

"The analysis using the All set showed that Levantine (Natufians and PPNB) and North African (Taforalt and Morocco_EN) populations could be modeled as a mixture of Dzudzuana with extra Basal Eurasian ancestry. The study of the Ibero-Maurusian remains from Taforalt was initially interpreted as suggesting that this population was formed by admixture between Natufians and a Sub-Saharan population15. However, the admixture graph model suggests the opposite scenario: that Natufians were formed by admixture from a Taforalt-related population and a Dzudzuana-related one"
(...)
"Taforalt could not be modeled as any 2-way mixture. The best model involving Natufians and an African population (Yoruba) could still be strongly rejected (p=2.7e-13). Taforalt could also not be modeled as a 3-way mixture. However, Natufians could be convincingly modeled as a 2-way mixture of ~86% Dzudzuana and ~14% Taforalt (p=0.405) with small standard errors of 1.9%. Thus the affinity between Natufians and Taforalt described in ref.15 may have come about by admixture from a North African/Taforalt-related population into Natufians, rather than by admixture in the opposite direction. The results of our analysis using the All set, as well as the results of the analysis of ref.15 do suggest that Taforalt can be modeled as a mixture of a West Eurasian related population (represented by Dzudzuana in our case) and a Sub-Saharan African lineage. However, when one uses only a single African population as a source without using others as outgroups, this mixture can only be interpreted as evidence of ancestry from a lineage basal to members of the All set, rather than as evidence of ancestry specifically specifically 44 related to the chosen African population. No Sub-Saharan African populations appear to be good sources for the ancestry of Taforalt as described previously. The admixture graph model suggests an alternative possibility: that it is West African populations like the Yoruba that may have ancestry from a North African Taforalt-like population. Under such a scenario, North Africa and the Levant were occupied by populations that experienced gene flow from each other, with more ancestry from a Basal lineage in North Africa, and more ancestry from a West Eurasian specific lineage (represented by Dzudzuana) in the Levant, thus explaining the presence of Dzudzuana related admixture in Taforalt and of Taforalt-related admixture in the Levant. Under this scenario, a North African-related population may have contributed some ancestry to Sub-Saharan populations to its south, perhaps during the Holocene Green Sahara period (~11-6kya)22 that postdates the sampled Taforalt individual which may have facilitated north→south gene flow across the Sahara. Based on the very low presence of Neandertal admixture in Yoruba, it has been estimated that >2.7±0.9% of the ancestry of Yoruba came from West Eurasia 9618 ± 1825 years ago 23 . The admixture graph model predicts that 13% of the ancestry of Yoruba came from Taforalt, which in turn was 55% descended from Dzudzuana and which in turn was 72% descended from Villabruna, for a total of 0.13*0.55*0.72≈5% Villabruna-related ancestry that would have carried Neanderthal DNA. This is consistent with the >2.7±0.9% estimate of ref. 2"
(...)

Yoruba with 5% of Villabruna-related ancestry. Interesting!
 
Some components involved above.

Barcin (ANF, supposedly AHG plus traces of CHG/Iran Neo and Levant Neo) must be 8400-8000 years old.
The WHG he chose apparently is 9500-9000.
Ganj Dareh Historic is only 600-500.
MA1/ANE would be ~24.000 years old.
This CHG (Kotias, I believe; also has ANE), 9900-9500.
Iberomaurasian/Taforalt, 15.000-14.000.

Natufians (almost 70% Taforalt-like, supposedly), 14.000-11.700 .
Villabruna (WHG), 14.200-13.800.
HotuIIIb (also has ANE), 11.100-10.600 years old.

A serious question: is it reasonable to give %, with some samples being 24.000 years old, and others much "younger"?
 
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534

G25 Ancient Averages scaled, official datasheet


Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 3.0025% / 0.03002541
97.0MAR_EN
1.8ETH_4500BP
0.8TZA_Pemba_600BP
0.4TWN_Gongguan

If I remove the other MAR N Tarofalt sample from the source you get this.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 19.8339% / 0.19833939
87.4ITA_Sardinia_C_o
8.8ZAF_400BP
3.6KEN_Pastoral_IA
0.2VUT_150BP_all


I am trying to see why we Spaniards are subscribed in Tarofalt, it always comes out as a tagline


G25 Ancient Individual Samples scaled, official datasheet


Same for individual

Out another sanples tarofalt

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 19.8094% / 0.19809449
85.0ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940
8.4ZAF_400BP:new001
6.4TZA_PN:I13981
0.2VUT_150BP_all:I4450_all

Some type of concrete basal may coincide with the Iberian peninsula rather than being a migration. We always get Tarofalt at a low value but by the time of the foundation it had to have been a migration with a huge number of individuals to have anchored in the modern Spanish heritage and I doubt that such a large migration would have taken place at that time.


I don't know, but the modern Spanish subscription to Iberomarusian and Tarofalt doesn't quite match. Well and also in older samples as seen here in the old Catalan samples


My own example. Some appear and disappear on different calculators but we are subscribed to Tarofalt. Curiously now I have seen that Sardinia is just behind. I don't know if it has to do more with something basal than really a direct Tarofalt result.

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 0.9304% / 0.00930425
20.6CZE_Starounetice_EBA
18.4DEU_Anselfingen_FN
14.8ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
13.2IRL_MN
5.8USA_colonial_period
5.2Corded_Ware_CHE_o
3.8Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
3.4MAR_Taforalt
3.2ITA_Sardinia_C_o
2.4UKR_N_o
2.0GEO_CHG
2.0Iberia_Menorca_LBA
1.8RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
1.4Levant_PPNC
1.0HRV_Vucedol
0.6DEU_MA_o
0.4HRV_EBA

If I eliminate Tarofalt, it is exactly Sardinia that increases and Iberia Menorca appears, which also in MTA I have Deep Dive. Bell Beaker Iberia also appears. And if it is a sample in itself with incomplete results or I do not know we are finding it a hindrance in the calculators. Menorca and Bell Beaker Iberia were hiding from me. This how can it be, of that nothing, here is something that is not right with Tarofalt sample.


Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 0.9344% / 0.00934374
20.2DEU_Anselfingen_FN
19.4CZE_Starounetice_EBA
11.8ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
10.2IRL_MN
6.2Iberia_Menorca_LBA

5.6Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
5.0ITA_Sardinia_C_o
4.6USA_colonial_period
4.0Corded_Ware_CHE_o
2.8UKR_N_o
2.2MAR_EN
2.0GEO_CHG
1.6DEU_MA_o
1.4Levant_PPNC
1.0HRV_EBA
1.0RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
0.6HRV_Vucedol
0.2DEU_Karsdorf_LN
0.2RUS_Yana_MA


My Deep Dive with Menorca sample
MenorcaLateBronzeI3315.JPEG


I think that Tarofalt is a baseline result for the Spaniards under false flag
 
Last edited:
A serious question: is it reasonable to give %, with some samples being 24.000 years old, and others much "younger"?
Yes, it can cause problems sometimes. If the populations are far enough genetically, even being from different times, it's better. It also depends on the goal, I guess. Sometimes people use related pops to separate "extra" ancestry. Or they may want to "overfit" the model to better isolate some specific component and estimate a minimal contribution of it. In this case, the %s per se as a whole would not matter that much; just a specific one would be more, say, "informative".

@Carlos
Firstly, I think the Taforalt influence will not necessarily correspond to the Moorish one. That said, in my opinion it's not intuitive to think that there were not significant gene flow between Morocco and Iberia, in both directions, after thousand and thousand of years. I guess that a bit of this "Taforalt-like" ancestry may have reached some other parts of Europe as well, even if weakly compared to Iberia.

You could try a model in G25 with ANF (Barcin), Levant Neo, CHG or Iran, Loschbour, Yamnaya and Taforalt (or Morocco Early Neo, which is very similar). You could also include as target pops such South French, North French, Dutch, English... To see what results they'd get for Taforalt-related ancestry.

If you use more recent components such Iberia Chalco, Anatolia MBA etc., you'd get lower %s for Taforalt, perhaps because part of what you found in the first model would be supposedly hidden in Iberia Chalco.

When Moorish arrived in Iberia, they possibly had a bit of shared ancestry with Europeans too. They must have carried Taforalt-like and also other components then, but I have no idea on the impact of "actual" Moorish DNA over Iberia.

Out of curiosity, one of the theories regarding the origin of a very important cultural item of my birth state Rio Grande do Sul, the "bombacha", is that it came from Moors, through Iberians. :)

bombacha.jpg


The culture of the "gaucho" is strongly Iberian, and even people with no or few Iberian ancestry in South Brazil were heavily influenced by it.
Another item that became very important in all Rio Grande do Sul, independently of ancestry, is the "chimarrão", originally Native American:

dia-do-chimarrao.jpg
 
The theme of fashion is very random. The typical Andalusian costume also called sevillana or flamenco was an adaptation of the high-ranking ladies of Seville of some simple costumes that they saw the gypsy women wear and there is nothing genetics involved.

traje-flamenca-origen-5.jpg

Maybe the suits that the high-ranking women of Seville looked at, a suit with some ruffles


3689_Fill_670_0.jpg

And the evolution into a typical costume that does not stop evolving and follows fashion as is the typical Andalusian costume
 
G25 Ancient Averages scaled, official datasheet

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 0.9304% / 0.00930362
20.8CZE_Starounetice_EBA
18.6DEU_Anselfingen_FN
14.4ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
12.0IRL_MN
5.4USA_colonial_period
5.0Corded_Ware_CHE_o
4.6Bell_Beaker_Iberia_C
3.6ITA_Sardinia_C_o
3.2MAR_Taforalt
2.4UKR_N_o
2.0Iberia_Menorca_LBA
1.8GEO_CHG
1.8RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
1.6HRV_Vucedol
1.4Levant_PPNC
0.8DEU_MA_o
0.4DEU_Karsdorf_LN
0.2HRV_EBA

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 0.5342% / 0.00534221
10.6Iberia_North_MLN
9.8RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
9.2FRA_IA
8.8Iberia_Northeast_MLN
6.4Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
6.0CHE_LN
5.6CZE_Starounetice_EBA
4.4FRA_BA
3.8TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
3.4Iberia_Southeast_CA
3.2DEU_MA
3.2MAR_Taforalt
2.8SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
2.6HRV_Sopot_MN
2.4RUS_Afanasievo
2.2RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
2.2RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
2.0GEO_CHG
2.0Iberia_Southwest_CA
2.0ITA_Sardinia_EBA
2.0KEN_Pastoral_N
1.6Levant_PPNC
1.2DEU_Anselfingen_FN
1.2England_CA_EBA
0.6HUN_Starcevo_N
0.4ITA_Collegno_MA
0.2GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
0.2UKR_Trypillia

G25 Modern Averages scaled, official datasheet

Introducing one sample Tarofalt

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 1.4942% / 0.01494159
27.2Spanish_Menorca
25.2Basque_French
23.4Basque_Spanish
6.6North_Ossetian
6.4Spanish_La_Rioja
3.0Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
2.4MAR_Taforalt
1.8Datog
1.6Spanish_Soria
1.6Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.6Lithuanian_PZ
0.2Ket

G25 modern individual samples, scaled, official datasheet

Introducing one sample Tarofalt

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 0.8666% / 0.00866641
21.8Basque_Spanish
21.0Sardinian
18.8Irish
8.8Portuguese
6.6Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
5.4French_South
5.0Abkhasian
3.6Basque_French
2.8MAR_Taforalt
2.4Polish
1.6Somali_Kenya
0.6Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator
0.6Ket
0.6North_Ossetian
0.2Dutch
0.2Ju_hoan_North

Supreeeme G25 Language families (scaled)

Introducing one sample Tarofalt

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 1.9909% / 0.01990871
91.6Western_Romance
3.0Balto-Slavic
2.6Cushitic
2.0Northwest_Caucasian
0.8MAR_Taforalt


To me this already seems like a subscription to that sample. That sample has been completed or guessed in some way with respect to Iberia put it where you put it there as if we were subscribed to it.
 
Ultimate Modern World K=50 Calculator for G25

Introducing one sample Tarofalt


Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 1.6843% / 0.01684307
76.4Basque
8.8Iberian
7.8Abkhasian_Georgian
2.6MAR_Taforalt
2.4Somali_Oromo
1.6Balto_Slavic_South
0.4Uralic

No matter which calculator is chosen if a Tarofalt sample is introduced there it will come out, I don't know who will believe this. With this sample there is a cat locked up.

MODERN EUROPE G25 2.0 by Celtíbero Itálico

Introducing one sample Tarofalt

Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 1.8724% / 0.01872371
49.8Basque_Country
16.6South_France
9.8Sardinian
8.0West_Iberia
6.4Caucasus
3.2Scandinavia
2.6MAR_Taforalt
2.4East_Africa
1.2Baltic_States

Subscribed to a cave where I've never been

Taforalt or Grotte des Pigeons is a cave in northern Oujda, Morocco, and possibly the oldest cemetery in North Africa (Humphrey et al. 2012). It contained at least 34 Iberomaurusian adolescent and adult human skeletons, as well as younger ones, from the Upper Palaeolithic between 15,100 and 14,000 calendar years ago. There is archaeological evidence for Iberomaurusian occupation at the site between 23,200 and 12,600 calendar years ago, as well as evidence for Aterian occupation as old as 85,000 years.

How lucky no? get it on any calculator where you enter it be modern old or even more modern
 

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