@Dema,
R 850 is a Phoenician? Where on earth do you get that? Are you aware that the modern Lebanese are very close descendants of the Canaanites/Phoenicians? Do you see them anywhere on this list of closest modern populations from Eurogenes K13, who never gets Near Easterners right, or Italians, for that matter? It's either deliberate or incompetence. You're aware, yes, that the Dodecanese is off the coast of Anatolia?
Distance to: | R850_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Iron_Age |
---|
4.12800497 | Greek_Dodecanese |
5.35067285 | Greek_Chios |
6.26520550 | Calabria |
6.35148014 | Greek_Symi_Island |
7.40556547 | Malta |
8.29838539 | Turk_Cypriot |
8.47106841 | Sicily |
8.53762262 | East_Sicilian |
8.62302151 | Sephardic_Jewish |
9.30844778 | Campania |
9.46088262 | Algerian_Jewish |
9.58992179 | Central_Greek |
10.57814729 | Italian_Jewish |
10.61534738 | Apulia |
10.67247862 | Ashkenazi |
11.03320896 | Tunisian_Jewish |
11.27887849 | Cyprian |
11.27887849 | Greek_Cypriot |
11.56409962 | Basilicata |
11.56547448 | Molise |
11.62612145 | Libyan_Jewish |
11.84490608 | Greek_Andros_Island |
12.31438996 | Abruzzo |
12.83437572 | Moroccan_Jew |
13.40095146 | Greek_Cappadocian |
Let’s look at Dodecad
Distance to: | R850_Iron_Age_Ardea |
---|
3.90799181 | Greek_Crete |
7.13377179 | Ashkenazy_Jews |
7.63860109 | Italy_Calabria |
7.74058137 | Sephardic_Jews |
7.82175172 | Ashkenazi |
10.04684154 | Italy_Sicily |
10.57089239 | Italy_Campania |
10.88449356 | Greek_Cappadocia |
11.39101962 | Italy_Apulia |
11.86263040 | Cypriots |
12.08694751 | Nusayri_Turkey |
12.19292418 | Morocco_Jews |
12.92056940 | Italy_Abruzzo |
13.12759689 | Crimean_Tatar_Coast |
13.17106678 | Turk_West_BlackSea |
13.49063008 | Turk_Central_West |
14.16544387 | Greek |
14.43175665 | Turk_Central_East |
14.45064012 | Turk_Anatolia |
15.19421600 | Turk_Southwest |
15.21064759 | Lebanese |
15.74333510 | Turk_Northwest |
15.93597503 | Turk_South |
15.96534685 | Turk_Central_Black_Sea |
16.59878610 | Turk_Southeast |
That makes the most sense and was, I believe, also the conclusion of the paper.
You're aware, yes, that there were no Ashkenazi Jews at that time, and they're a more recent population which is anywhere from 40-60% European?
Did you also somehow miss this from Antonio et al? Who could look at that and say...PHOENICIAN????
Obviously ludicrous claims like that make everything you say not only subject to ridicule, but undeserving of reasoned responses.
I will also point out once again some fundamental facts about the Phoenicians/Carthaginians. You have presented absolutely no historical or archaeological proof that the Greeks admixed with either group. When you make such claims absent proof, it’s not debate, it’s misinformation and t-rolling, and that isn’t permitted here.
In terms of Italians, the only Phoenician/Carthaginian settlements were, to repeat, on the northwestern part of Sicily and the southwestern part of Sardinia.
There was no war with Phoenicia. There were the Punic Wars with the Carthaginians, who were different people, with only the elites probably of Levantine origin. The rest of them would have been partly or mostly Berber. Now, you seem to have your dates confused as well. The Punic Wars have nothing to do with the middle to late Empire and any supposed genetic changes to the actual natives. The Carthaginians, much less the Phoenicians, didn’t exist by that time. The Punic Wars, for your information, occurred from 264 to 146 BC.
So, you seem to be implying an admixture with Phoenicians, who were actually Carthaginians, during the period of the Empire, when it was actually the Republic. During the course of those wars, indeed some of the “Carthaginian” soldiers were probably enslaved, and perhaps brought back to Italy, although they could have been bought all over the Empire. The bigger problem is that the VAST majority of the Carthaginian troops were not Carthaginians, much less Phoenicians; there were never enough of them, because they were mainly just elite traders. Probably most of the troops were, from the historical record, Spaniards and Alpine people and north Italians, including my Ligures. See the problem with your reasoning? This is what comes of not knowing any history.
Now, as to J2-M205, how the heck do you know where it formed?
I can’t figure out what, apart from the typical Albanian desire to t-roll Greeks could lead you to this conclusion, unless it’s that you still haven’t grasped or understood the fundamental principle in population genetics that y dna DOES NOT DETERMINE ETHNICITY.
You do the same thing with J2b- I don’t know where it was first picked up and spread from, and I don’t care, but Albanians don’t own it and nor did the Illyrians. The fact that it shows up amongst Etruscans and modern Italians doesn’t mean “Illyrians” brought it there or that Etruscans were Illyrians. Certainly, Albanians don’t have anything to do with it. I realize that you were all taught you were the descendants of the Illyrians, but you’re certainly not very close to the samples we currently have, and are much further from them than are Italians, so let it go; it just makes you all look ridiculous.
Leaving all that aside, how could you possibly conclude that all the J2-M205 in Italy or Greece or anywhere else in Europe only comes from the Levant? Haven’t you done the least bit of unbiased research? Don't you realize how much came from Anatolia to Greece, and perhaps particularly, to Crete?
Don’t you see that your conclusions are not grounded in unbiased fact?
As for those ridiculous models, who made them? Was it Sikeliot acting as Portuguese Princess, or that card carrying Skin Head, Stormfront member Drac who used to regularly threaten me on this site?
You really have to start hanging around with a better class of people.
Everyone else can do as they wish, but I will no longer debate these issues with someone seemingly blithely drawing conclusions based on absolutely no actual facts.