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Thread: Were pre-Slavic Albanians like ancient Illyrians?

  1. #176
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Levant_BA is different from Anatolian_BA, because about half of Levant_BA admixture was retained from the previous population, that is different from Anatolian_BA. That is why the modeling Greeks, Albanians, and Italians, does not work with Levant_BA, but it does with Anatolian_BA. Just because your haplogroup happens to exist among Levant_BA, doesn't negate the fact that J2 is found all over Anatolia, and the Balkans, with the strong possibility it existed in other places at the time of Levant_BA.

    Yes i understood that, Anatolian_BA is similar to Levant_BA, but Levant_BA has probably more of its native Levant genetics which was regarding Y-DNA predominately E1b and T1. Probably mix of E1b (Africa), and T1 (branch which arrived from Caucasus). This makes a bit of problem in modeling but i am sure that according to SNP tests which was already done this can be revealed unlike in PCA plotting. I think researches already confirmed autosomal SNPs which Italians and Middle East shares if you read more carefully.

    Regarding J2-M205 seems it has been small Zagros population which together with other J haplotypes where biggest of them was J1 spread from Zagros to Levant in Early Bronze Age. It has formed date 16000 ybp but TMRCA 5900 ybp. It has confirmed multiple 4500 ybp aDNA in Bronze Age Levant (Israel 2500 BCE, Jordan 2500 BCE, Phoenician Canaanite Sidon 1600 BCE).

    Therefore all J2-M205 man share same ancestor with aDNA in Bronze Age Levant (4500 ybp) in timeframe of 5900 ybp. And all J2-M205 man come from one man who lived 5900 years ago.

    Its split 16 000 years away from other closest J lines. Albanian J lines are predominately J2-L283 which split from J2-M205 16 000 years ago. Therefore entirely other migration and history. As i said Albanian J2-L283 is still mystery but they are probably Zagros Neolithic expansion to Caucasus where they were smaller population until picked up by R1b Yamnaya arrivals.

    Greek J is predominately J2-M410, Earlier Caucasus and Zagros Neolithic, later ABA.

    There is not a proof for single J2-M205 clade that it spread before Roman Empire into Europe.

    Even after hundreds of tested ancient bones all over Europe there is no proof that any J1 or J2-M205 spread during Bronze Age Europe. But they are both found together consistently in Bronze Age Levant.

    First appearance of J1-P58 and J2-M205 we see in Europe are from Ancient Rome study and they start to appear in Imperial Roman period. But since there was no data for republican and pre-republican time i assume they probably started to appear since Punic Wars until end of Byzantine Empire.

    Among first J2-M205 aDNA was Roman Gladiator from England which again had clear Middle-Eastern autosomal https://j2-m172.info/2016/01/exogeno...ddle-eastener/

    He was found together with few other R1b gladiators.

    Look J2-M205 in Yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

    Does this not look like Semitic haplogroup to you ? : )

  2. #177
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Look what research says: even this should already confirm you what i am saying entire time:



    Strikingly, one Roman skeleton shows a clear signal of exogenous origin, with affinities pointing towards the Middle East, confirming the cosmopolitan character of the Empire, even at its northernmost fringes. […]
    Seven ancient genomes are sampled from a cemetery in Roman York dated between the second and the fourth century AD […]
    the majority (6/7) of Driffield Terrace samples belong to sub-lineages of R1b-L52/L11 […] Sample 3DRIF-26, on the other hand, despite belonging to the same burial context, presented a lineage consistent with haplogroup J2-L228 […] majority were adults under 45 years old, male and most had evidence of decapitation.

  3. #178
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Read this paper to find out which lineage is a marker of Phoenician diffusion through the Mediterranean. If you continue spewing nonsense after reading this, you're out of here. We can't have people posting completely false information in direct contravention of academic studies.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5945646/


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #179
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    Country: Albania



    2 members found this post helpful.
    That haplogroup is like 1% in Italians and Albanians, it is unlikely it is ultimately Semitic, even if it was it's like 1%, let it go.

  5. #180
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-CTS1096 downstrem?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    from plovdiv

    Country: Uruguay



    I checked my mother
    Matches in family finder
    She have a matching segment in chromosome 9 with a person from kosovo
    Which she didn't pass me
    Balkan dna unite much more than what
    People think.

    P.s
    This is the third albanian match she has,
    The other two
    one of them is also in chromosome 9 but in different place ...
    The other one is in chromosome 1 ....
    Last edited by kingjohn; 22-06-20 at 01:42.
    known ancestery:
    sefhardi / aschenazi/ mizrahi / bulgarian
    direct paternal line back to damascus
    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Lebanese_Muslim + Lebanese_Muslim + Serbian + Tuscan @ 1.234402

  6. #181
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    These are my top 25 populations in G25

    Distance to: Progon_scaled
    0.02208450 Albanian
    0.02223885 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.02615174 Greek_Thessaly
    0.03190721 Swiss_Italian
    0.03270794 Italian_Tuscany
    0.03282051 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.03285553 Italian_Piedmont
    0.03499672 Italian_Marche
    0.03575619 Gagauz
    0.03621515 Italian_Veneto
    0.03675538 Bulgarian
    0.03703866 Italian_Umbria
    0.03767072 Macedonian
    0.03827807 Italian_Northeast
    0.03839669 Greek_Izmir
    0.03945753 Italian_Molise
    0.04018437 Italian_Bergamo
    0.04083347 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04122828 Italian_Liguria
    0.04179356 Italian_Lazio
    0.04195991 Romanian
    0.04260177 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.04272890 Italian_Lombardy
    0.04367691 French_Corsica
    0.04644384 Serbian

    Averaged Albanian

    Distance to: Albanian
    0.01172523 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.01647191 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02621927 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02764228 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02824767 Swiss_Italian
    0.02837148 Italian_Piedmont
    0.02864146 Gagauz
    0.02928925 Italian_Marche
    0.03115133 Greek_Izmir
    0.03122240 Bulgarian
    0.03123173 Italian_Umbria
    0.03281939 Italian_Molise
    0.03485838 Italian_Veneto
    0.03520665 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.03532947 Macedonian
    0.03557118 Italian_Lazio
    0.03625818 Italian_Liguria
    0.03725645 Italian_Bergamo
    0.03739630 Italian_Northeast
    0.03834255 French_Corsica
    0.03850606 Romanian
    0.03882988 Italian_Apulia
    0.03901760 Italian_Lombardy
    0.03936900 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04005893 Italian_Basilicata

  7. #182
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    These are my top 25 populations in G25

    Distance to: Progon_scaled
    0.02208450 Albanian
    0.02223885 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.02615174 Greek_Thessaly
    0.03190721 Swiss_Italian
    0.03270794 Italian_Tuscany
    0.03282051 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.03285553 Italian_Piedmont
    0.03499672 Italian_Marche
    0.03575619 Gagauz
    0.03621515 Italian_Veneto
    0.03675538 Bulgarian
    0.03703866 Italian_Umbria
    0.03767072 Macedonian
    0.03827807 Italian_Northeast
    0.03839669 Greek_Izmir
    0.03945753 Italian_Molise
    0.04018437 Italian_Bergamo
    0.04083347 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04122828 Italian_Liguria
    0.04179356 Italian_Lazio
    0.04195991 Romanian
    0.04260177 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.04272890 Italian_Lombardy
    0.04367691 French_Corsica
    0.04644384 Serbian

    Averaged Albanian

    Distance to: Albanian
    0.01172523 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.01647191 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02621927 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02764228 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02824767 Swiss_Italian
    0.02837148 Italian_Piedmont
    0.02864146 Gagauz
    0.02928925 Italian_Marche
    0.03115133 Greek_Izmir
    0.03122240 Bulgarian
    0.03123173 Italian_Umbria
    0.03281939 Italian_Molise
    0.03485838 Italian_Veneto
    0.03520665 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.03532947 Macedonian
    0.03557118 Italian_Lazio
    0.03625818 Italian_Liguria
    0.03725645 Italian_Bergamo
    0.03739630 Italian_Northeast
    0.03834255 French_Corsica
    0.03850606 Romanian
    0.03882988 Italian_Apulia
    0.03901760 Italian_Lombardy
    0.03936900 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04005893 Italian_Basilicata

    Very odd placement of Italian provinces relative to one another. Particularly odd that an Albanian would be closer to A Swiss Italian of all things than Tuscany and other Italian provinces.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. He's got some wonky regional Italian samples. Maybe they're from Sizzi from who knows what source.

  8. #183
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    Target: HRV_IA
    Distance: 2.4082% / 0.02408223
    48.2 SRB_N
    42.8 Corded_Ware_DEU
    4.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    4.2 Iberia_MN


    Target: HRV_EBA
    Distance: 2.6429% / 0.02642909
    37.6 GRC_Peloponnese_N
    36.2 Corded_Ware_DEU
    15.0 Iberia_MN
    9.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    1.4 Taforalt

    Target: HRV_MBA
    Distance: 1.7605% / 0.01760454
    28.8 GRC_Peloponnese_N
    22.8 Corded_Ware_DEU
    21.8 UKR_Srubnaya_MLBA
    13.4 SRB_N
    13.2 Iberia_MN


    Target: BGR_IA
    Distance: 2.0506% / 0.02050612
    37.0 GRC_Peloponnese_N
    27.0 SRB_N
    13.8 Corded_Ware_DEU
    11.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    7.4 UKR_Srubnaya_MLBA
    3.0 Baltic_EST_BA


    Target: GRC_Mycenaean
    Distance: 2.1308% / 0.02130805
    39.0 GRC_Peloponnese_N
    24.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    23.2 SRB_N
    6.2 Corded_Ware_DEU
    4.8 Iberia_MN
    2.0 Baltic_EST_BA
    0.6 UKR_Srubnaya_MLBA

    Interesting how HRV_MBA shows increase of Srubnaya admixture.

  9. #184
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania



    Also, interesting how HRV_EBA, HRV_MBA and HRV_IA require Iberia_MN with HRV_EBA requiring additional Taforalt 1%.

  10. #185
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is mine for example.

    G25 Ancient Average Scaled:

    Distance to: Dibran_scaled
    0.03819516 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.03979503 HRV_MBA
    0.04350113 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.04463139 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.04538327 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.04556745 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04576255 BGR_IA
    0.05032631 Scythian_MDA
    0.05182707 TUR_IA_low_res
    0.05209172 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.05223886 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.05234364 HRV_EBA
    0.05280019 HRV_IA
    0.05457912 BGR_EBA
    0.05636563 ITA_Etruscan
    0.05701967 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
    0.05736240 DEU_MA_o
    0.05791531 HUN_BA
    0.05847323 Bell_Beaker_ITA
    0.06167637 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    0.06206766 ITA_Villanovan
    0.06317539 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
    0.06330347 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE
    0.06412221 DEU_Roman
    0.06434883 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA


    G25 Modern Average Scaled:

    Distance to: Dibran_scaled
    0.03307345 Albanian
    0.03362317 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.03371168 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.03843979 Greek_Thessaly
    0.04079163 Italian_Tuscany
    0.04080310 Italian_Umbria
    0.04150649 Swiss_Italian
    0.04165860 Greek_Izmir
    0.04297133 Italian_Piedmont
    0.04460989 French_Corsica
    0.04495230 Italian_Marche
    0.04512751 Italian_Lazio
    0.04564201 Italian_Veneto
    0.04581532 Italian_Molise
    0.04779166 Italian_Bergamo
    0.04826116 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.05007064 Italian_Northeast
    0.05097348 Macedonian
    0.05101764 Bulgarian
    0.05103895 Italian_Basilicata
    0.05137331 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.05146584 Italian_Apulia
    0.05150339 Gagauz
    0.05355549 Italian_Lombardy
    0.05549639 Romanian

    Ancient & Modern Scaled:

    Distance to: Dibran_scaled
    0.03307345 Albanian
    0.03362317 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.03371168 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.03819516 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.03843979 Greek_Thessaly
    0.03979503 HRV_MBA
    0.04079163 Italian_Tuscany
    0.04080310 Italian_Umbria
    0.04150649 Swiss_Italian
    0.04165860 Greek_Izmir
    0.04297133 Italian_Piedmont
    0.04350113 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.04460989 French_Corsica
    0.04463139 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.04495230 Italian_Marche
    0.04512751 Italian_Lazio
    0.04538327 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.04556745 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04564201 Italian_Veneto
    0.04576255 BGR_IA
    0.04581532 Italian_Molise
    0.04779166 Italian_Bergamo
    0.04826116 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.05007064 Italian_Northeast
    0.05032631 Scythian_MDA

    Ancient Averaged Unscaled:

    Distance to: Dibran
    0.02071232 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.02294058 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.02336878 HRV_MBA
    0.02485089 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.02501080 BGR_IA
    0.02532411 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.02657749 Scythian_MDA
    0.02784097 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.02947279 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.02959307 TUR_IA_low_res
    0.03006683 ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
    0.03053572 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.03054532 TUR_Isparta_EBA
    0.03060085 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.03201531 DEU_MA_o
    0.03209692 BGR_EBA
    0.03219527 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.03336342 Scythian_HUN
    0.03390443 HUN_BA
    0.03403248 DEU_Roman
    0.03501650 ITA_Sardinia_IA
    0.03523613 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    0.03549616 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.03552895 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
    0.03611717 ITA_Villanovan


    Modern Average Unscaled:

    Distance to: Dibran
    0.01802422 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02104356 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.02132171 Greek_Izmir
    0.02139280 Albanian
    0.02633785 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02648207 Italian_Basilicata
    0.02676870 Italian_Umbria
    0.02684215 Greek_Kos
    0.02737663 Italian_Molise
    0.02750118 Turkish_Rumeli
    0.02751184 Macedonian
    0.02760827 Bulgarian
    0.02795416 Italian_Calabria
    0.02821664 Swiss_Italian
    0.02821979 Romanian
    0.02849987 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02877807 Italian_Northeast
    0.02879109 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.02881555 Italian_Apulia
    0.02893018 Montenegrin
    0.02916004 Italian_Campania
    0.02934133 Italian_Veneto
    0.02950539 Italian_Lazio
    0.03017011 French_Corsica
    0.03045210 Gagauz

    Ancient & Modern Unscaled:

    Distance to: Dibran
    0.01802422 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02071232 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.02104356 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.02132171 Greek_Izmir
    0.02139280 Albanian
    0.02294058 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.02336878 HRV_MBA
    0.02485089 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.02501080 BGR_IA
    0.02532411 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.02633785 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02648207 Italian_Basilicata
    0.02657749 Scythian_MDA
    0.02676870 Italian_Umbria
    0.02684215 Greek_Kos
    0.02737663 Italian_Molise
    0.02750118 Turkish_Rumeli
    0.02751184 Macedonian
    0.02760827 Bulgarian
    0.02784097 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.02795416 Italian_Calabria
    0.02821664 Swiss_Italian
    0.02821979 Romanian
    0.02849987 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02877807 Italian_Northeast

  11. #186
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    This Szolad Sz43 sample is the closest ancient sample to me, it looks like he was a Pannonian probably?

    Distance to: Progon_scaled
    0.03299762 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
    0.03438320 IND_Roopkund_B:I6936
    0.03482785 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
    0.03756047 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ37
    0.03832633 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR55
    0.03939553 IND_Roopkund_B:I3404
    0.03943402 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.03964654 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
    0.04018759 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR36
    0.04031992 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.04085139 DEU_MA_ACD:NW_54
    0.04117742 ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b
    0.04135765 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR970
    0.04174284 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.04206426 HUN_BA:I7043
    0.04232969 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.04239937 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1287
    0.04252108 ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
    0.04253080 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04254209 Levant_LBN_MA_o4:SI-53
    0.04297053 HRV_EBA:I3499
    0.04341950 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ32
    0.04392579 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.04399249 DEU_MA_ACD:STR_310
    0.04423490 HRV_IA:I3313

  12. #187
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Very odd placement of Italian provinces relative to one another. Particularly odd that an Albanian would be closer to A Swiss Italian of all things than Tuscany and other Italian provinces.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. He's got some wonky regional Italian samples. Maybe they're from Sizzi from who knows what source.
    If it's G25, G25 averages are from academic samples (and here it would be necessary to open another discussion, on how reliable academic samples are, and how many mistakes the creator of the G25 can make, both in good faith and in bad faith). Sizzi has nothing to do with G25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    This Szolad Sz43 sample is the closest ancient sample to me, it looks like he was a Pannonian probably?

    Distance to: Progon_scaled
    0.03299762 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
    0.03438320 IND_Roopkund_B:I6936
    0.03482785 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
    0.03756047 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ37
    0.03832633 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR55
    0.03939553 IND_Roopkund_B:I3404
    0.03943402 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.03964654 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
    0.04018759 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR36
    0.04031992 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.04085139 DEU_MA_ACD:NW_54
    0.04117742 ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b
    0.04135765 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR970
    0.04174284 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.04206426 HUN_BA:I7043
    0.04232969 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.04239937 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1287
    0.04252108 ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
    0.04253080 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04254209 Levant_LBN_MA_o4:SI-53
    0.04297053 HRV_EBA:I3499
    0.04341950 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ32
    0.04392579 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.04399249 DEU_MA_ACD:STR_310
    0.04423490 HRV_IA:I3313
    I don't remember a single ancient sample from South Balkans expect for one Thracian the the Myceneans. This is probably from the Northern Balkans.

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    Were pre-Slavic Albanians like ancient Illyrians?

    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I don't remember a single ancient sample from South Balkans expect for one Thracian the the Myceneans. This is probably from the Northern Balkans.
    I am closer to SZ36. (590 AD)
    But more interesting is SZ1 (1000 BC)



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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I don't remember a single ancient sample from South Balkans expect for one Thracian the the Myceneans. This is probably from the Northern Balkans.
    Yes, he was from Western part of Hungary, Szolad region. I don't know what was his affiliations but he was some sort of Y-DNA I2a2 (not the current Balkan clade).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Yes, he was from Western part of Hungary, Szolad region. I don't know what was his affiliations but he was some sort of Y-DNA I2a2 (not the current Balkan clade).
    This came from this study: Understanding 6th-century barbarian social organization and migration through paleogenomics

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4




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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    I am closer to SZ36. (590 AD)
    But more interesting is SZ1 (1000 BC)



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    SZ1 is closer to central europe and northern balkans

    Distance to: HUN_Avar_Period:SZ1
    0.03959387 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.04072557 ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
    0.04644136 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL23
    0.04664864 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ37
    0.04998453 DEU_MA_ACD:STR_310
    0.05183235 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.05271694 DEU_MA_ACD:NW_54
    0.05287391 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR60
    0.05293926 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5524
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4o
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    SZ1 is closer to central europe and northern balkans

    Distance to: HUN_Avar_Period:SZ1
    0.03959387 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.04072557 ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
    0.04644136 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL23
    0.04664864 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ37
    0.04998453 DEU_MA_ACD:STR_310
    0.05183235 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.05271694 DEU_MA_ACD:NW_54
    0.05287391 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR60
    0.05293926 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5524
    SZ1 seems Hallstatt


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    Interesting topic, but I don't know the answer.
    I used as a source for the eastern Mediterranean the average of Crete, for the western Mediterranean the people of Sardinia, for 'Nordic' the average of Norway And for northeastern Europe the Ukrainian average.


    Target: Albanian
    Distance: 1.5340% / 0.01533967
    54.2 East_Med
    27.0 North_east_europe
    16.8 Southwest_Euro
    1.8 Nordic
    0.2 Nganassan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You may already have done this, but in case you haven't.

    If you're speaking of sample 13313, this is what mta says are his closest modern populations:
    1. Spanish_Extremadura (6.749)
    2. Spanish_Murcia (6.887)
    3. Spanish_Cataluna (6.957)
    4. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (7.206)
    5. Spanish_Andalucia (7.233)
    6. Spanish_Valencia (7.494)
    7. North_Italian (7.731)
    8. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (7.798)

    SZ1 :Bronze Age Hungary (I'm at 9.7)

    1. Kosovar (7.704)
    2. Albanian_Tosk (7.894)
    3. Tuscan (8.468)
    4. Bulgarian (9.955)
    5. Greek_Thessaly (10.26)
    6. North_Italian (10.36)
    7. Greek (10.66)
    8. Romanian (10.71)

    Croatian (Bronze) 14311)
    1. Portuguese (8.380)
    2. Spanish_Murcia (8.547)
    3. Spanish_Cataluna (8.557)
    4. Spanish_Extremadura (9.096)
    5. North_Italian (9.319)
    6. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (9.484)
    7. Spanish_Galicia (9.666)
    8. Spanish_Valencia (10.79)

    On the original paper it was concluded that the Illyrian / Bronze Age female sample found in Dalmatia was clustering closest to other Balkan people, She is the JAZ1 on this PCA Map. She was actually found many years ago.




    Other Ancient Balkan samples also appeared closer to Albanians and other Balkan people rather than Italians on the original that I saw published by David Reich apparently (like that one found in Moldova/Romania) except for one Bronze Age found in Western Montenegro which was like an Iberian.

    I contacted Reich's former colleagues and they told me most of these samples are low quality. There was also an Iron Age from 900 or so that was extreme low quality apparently and on gedmatch it clustered like a North-East European. There are some others that have been found that on gedmatch clustered weird too.


    I don't understand why a Bronze Age from Hungary would be clustering closest to Kosovars. Clearly this must be a coincidence. But that was also not too far away from Illyrian territory. Just a bit north actually.

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    Some Thracians also found years ago clustered really South or really North and some just East of Tuscans. These people were clearly a mix of different populations so even by the Bronze Age or Iron Age such genes weren't fully diluted to produce Greek like or Albanian like people. Therefore I don't see what's the point of comparing them to such a small population like Albanians that descendant, according to genetic studies, from a small population that rapidly expanded within the last 1500 years and showing one of the highest IBD sharing within their own population among Europeans. (But apparently also sharing a lot of ancestors with Italians, Macedonians, Greeks and other Balkanites.)

    It is likely a cluster like Albanians formed much later from a small population resulting from a bottle neck effect. Does not mean it's main ancestor is not Illyrian. Or Thracian or anything. As it is clear Albanians are from a pre-Slavic Balkan population and the language originated somewhere north of the jirek line, most plausible would be Western or Central Balkans IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crank View Post
    On the original paper it was concluded that the Illyrian / Bronze Age female sample found in Dalmatia was clustering closest to other Balkan people, She is the JAZ1 on this PCA Map. She was actually found many years ago.




    Other Ancient Balkan samples also appeared closer to Albanians and other Balkan people rather than Italians on the original that I saw published by David Reich apparently (like that one found in Moldova/Romania) except for one Bronze Age found in Western Montenegro which was like an Iberian.

    I contacted Reich's former colleagues and they told me most of these samples are low quality. There was also an Iron Age from 900 or so that was extreme low quality apparently and on gedmatch it clustered like a North-East European. There are some others that have been found that on gedmatch clustered weird too.


    I don't understand why a Bronze Age from Hungary would be clustering closest to Kosovars. Clearly this must be a coincidence. But that was also not too far away from Illyrian territory. Just a bit north actually.
    I don't know to which paper you're referring or the exact source of that PDA. At any rate, I have no idea why you'd base any conclusions whatsoever on samples of this kind of quality.

    Ignore them, would be my advice.

    We have decent quality samples. Draw your conclusions from those.

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