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Thread: Far Left-Wing Americans want to dismantle statues

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    I do not despise my European ancestors. On the contrary, I admire them very much. The Colony Era were rough times, and there was a struggle for survival on both sides. This struggle was based on survival instinct and not racism. The conquerors saw the Indigenous as savage pagans and murderers and the Indigenous saw Europeans as destructive demons. From the point of view of the conqueror, no new immigrant would have arrived to Americas if the Portuguese and, shortly thereafter, the Spanish had not opened the way for the Americas. The Portuguese were the ones who developed the Caravels and the most sophisticated navigation instruments that allowed Europeans to conquer the world with their military and merchant fleets. This bias that the new immigrants are better than the old ones caused serious problems for Italian and German immigrants in the south and southeast of Brazil, mainly in WW2, to the point that the Talian was abandoned by many native speakers out of fear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    I do not despise my European ancestors. On the contrary, I admire them very much. The Colony Era were rough times, and there was a struggle for survival on both sides. This struggle was based on survival instinct and not racism. The conquerors saw the Indigenous as savage pagans and murderers and the Indigenous saw Europeans as destructive demons. From the point of view of the conqueror, no new immigrant would have arrived to Americas if the Portuguese and, shortly thereafter, the Spanish had not opened the way for the Americas. The Portuguese were the ones who developed the Caravels and the most sophisticated navigation instruments that allowed Europeans to conquer the world with their military and merchant fleets. This bias that the new immigrants are better than the old ones caused serious problems for Italian and German immigrants in the south and southeast of Brazil, mainly in WW2, to the point that the Talian was abandoned by many native speakers out of fear.

    I sometimes have discussions with people who say: look at the bestialities that the Spanish did on this continent! (And the funny thing is that many times people with a Spanish surname and even a Spanish appearance say it ...).
    And I answer them: .. if those things had never happened ... you and I would not exist ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    Throughout history, all civilizations have committed crimes. We must learn from that so that the crimes do not happen again in the future ... although I am skeptical, since long after Auschwitz there were genocides like the one in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia.
    We should try to solve injustices ... but without perpetuating hatred. As a small example of those hatreds from the past, I tell you something that happened to me.
    A while ago I entered a community of descendants of Uruguayan indigenous people on Facebook. In my opening message, I wrote that I was very proud to have confirmed my suspicions of having native ancestors through a DNA test, because that gave me strong roots in this continent, but I also wrote that I was proud of my European ancestors....

    The group administrator replied: What ???? ... Are you proud of those who massacred our people and stole their land?
    And I replied: Hey, wait a minute! I am not talking about the conquerors, of which I do not even know if I am a descendant and probably never will!
    I refer to the millions of immigrants who came to work, like my Italian grandfather, who in his life knew nothing but hard work and left his bones on this land!
    The answer was silence...
    It is crazy, that people should be made to feel guilty for who they are. You should be proud of all your roots, and I'm happy to call you a fellow Italian.

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    Don't brush it off as eh, they did some good. I do not ignore the fact that some of the advances that are credited to the Greeks would not have been possible were it not for slaves freeing elites from manual labor so they can think their high thoughts. Slavery is abhorrent under any circumstances and should never be excused. So is thievery and plunder but at least you don't lose your freedom and you're not worked to death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It is crazy, that people should be made to feel guilty for who they are. You should be proud of all your roots, and I'm happy to call you a fellow Italian.

    Thank you Jovialis!

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    These are some of the historical characters that I really admire. They are a far cry from what can be called 'politically correct people'. But their achievements are absolutely admirable. I give them all my honors. Doesn’t matter for me their haters. I love them.

    Dom Manuel I - Portuguese monarch who financed the great navigations.



    Vasco da Gama - Portuguese navigator - First navigator to bypass the Cape of Good Hope and reach the Indies



    Fernando and Isabel, the first kings of Spain. They financed the exploitation of Christopher Columbus.



    Pedro Álvares Cabral - Portuguese navigator - Venerated as the discoverer of Brazil.



    Pero Vaz de Caminha - Author of the birth certificate of Brazil, royal escrivener of the fleet of Pedro Álvares Cabral who communicated to King Dom Manoel I the good news.



    Fernão de Magalhães - Portuguese navigator - Noted for having organized and started the first circumnavigation trip to the globe from 1519 to 1522



    Pedro I of Brazil (first ruler of independent Brazil - 1822 to 1831) and later (and at the same time too - this history is very confused) Pedro IV, King of Portugal and Algarves.


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    Well now In Boston I read the Abraham Lincoln Statue there is an issue. Some 7,000 or so petitions signed to take it down as it has a slave being freed resembled as such. Modern Liberals embracing full blown iconoclasm so to speak. (source NBC affiliate NYC)

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...k-man/2465039/

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    Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

    In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

    A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.

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    All I am trying to get across here is know your history. All the history, not just what they teach you in high school or in Sunday School. For example we were not taught in HS that quite a few Byzantine emperors (including Constantine the Great who is an Orthodox saint) slaughtered Greeks that still believed in the ancient gods, not to mention all the other heretics. As they say history is written by the victors and the Christians won. They only talk about how the Roman emperors persecuted the early Christians but they conveniently forgot about the Byzantine emperors persecuting non-Christians.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 16-06-20 at 02:21.

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    I read today in a newspaper of São Paulo of national circulation an article by a revisionist in favor of removing the busts and statues of the Bandeirantes exposed in the urban landscape of São Paulo under the claim that their exhibition in public places is out of context. According to the writer, these monuments should be removed for museums where the real face of these 16th and 17th century explorers would be described: “The only goal of the bandeirantes was to promote indigenous genicide and its enslavement” and the exposure of these busts in public squares and public places would be a exaltation of genicide and racism sponsored by the elite of São Paulo. He reaches the summit of proposing the change of name of streets, squares, parks and avenues and gives himself the gall to suggest the new names. The author's name and surname make clear their non-Iberian origin. It is amazing how some opportunists of occasion take advantage of the moment of crisis to make inappropriate analogies with racism. Sometimes I wonder who gave him authorization or power of attorney to do the mea-culpa on behalf of the Portuguese-descendants. Portuguese descendants have been doing mea-culpa for a long time and do not need advice or suggestions on how to deal with the guilt complex itself. Let the monuments where they are and as they are. Bad or not, it’s part of our culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

    In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

    A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.
    Sorry @bigsnake. I didn't see your post and I didn't see your reference to me.

    Yes. The stain of the expulsion of the Moors, Jews and the inquisition hangs over the Catholic Kings.

    At the age of 9, in a play taught in the schoolyard where I course the fourth grade of elementary school, I represented King Fernando (this is also my father's name) and a classmate represented the Queen Isabel. Teaching was part of the history classes dealing with the discovery of America.

    The Catholic Kings are the founders of the Spanish nation. Allow me to clarify that for Brazilians the figure of Pedro Álvares Cabral is much more important than the figures of Cristóvão Colombo and Américo Vespúcio. Of course, we recognize the historical importance of both. The Portuguese were already aware of the existence of Brazil and the arrival here was not an accident. It was a matter of taking possession and preventing the Spaniards from taking over.

    The Spanish and Portuguese inquisition was terrible. In the city of Ouro Preto, Minas Gerais, Brazil, many new Christians (Jews allegedly converted to Christianity) were burned on charges of secret Judaism practice. I am not deny all these atrocities.

    I remember that after Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto is the city I most love in this world.

    Cheers ;)

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    I'm tripping out on how you thought Anderson Cooper was "reasonably balanced"...

    Not to fault Cooper unfairly though, I can't think of a single national reporter (U.S. based) who comes through as unbiased anymore.

    Sad state of affairs.

    EDIT: Thought of one-- Sharyl Attkisson. She's fairly middle of the road and doesn't seem like she's constantly pushing an agenda.

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    Double digit unemployment, 100,000+ Americans have perished, but an endless parade of bread and circus microaggressions by nobodies paraded in front of the media keeps the public fighting amongst themselves over relatively trivial matters

    Katie Herzog

    This woman was fired because the Washington Post decided an offensive Halloween costume (for which she was already humiliated) is national news. Way to speak truth to power.





    A working class Mexican man gets fired from his job because a Twitter user took a photo of him cracking his knuckles and claimed he was making a white power gesture. The Twitter user deleted their account and said they didn't mean to get him fired, fwiw. https://nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/


    These people are barking mad...the American version of the Mao's Cultural Revolution. Today they're going after members of the universities and elite media. I'm telling you, tomorrow it will be everyone.

    So should we start denouncing our neighbors? When will the purges begin? Read a history of the show trials in Russia in the 30s; all those "true believers" couldn't comprehend how they could be sitting in the dock, being "tried" by their fellow Communists and countrymen for bogus crap.

    You vote for people affiliated with American far left ideology, who at all tolerate them, at your peril.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

    In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

    A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.
    Sorry the last that is wrong.
    Most of Spanish Jews left around 1860-1885, following their Great Hahami
    mainly after the liberty and union of Thessaly.
    and not only from Thessaloniki but also from Monasterion (today Bitola)
    only the Serajevo Spanish Jews remained and expand to other Balkan areas.
    Most of the modern Jews today are from Constantinoupolis, Italy, and Central Europe and mainly Eskenazy,
    you can check the diaries of Allianza.
    the reason was the revolt of 1821 and the role they played,

    yet there are some Navarran families still left

    the city center of Thessaloniki at 1855 had
    48 Synagoges (most were Navarran Separatim)
    24 Islamic temples (including Ntonmie and Bectashi)
    24 Orthodox Churches
    3 Catholic churches and 2 Catholic monasteries (1 Italian style and 1 French style)
    Protestans presence is mentioned by 1851, as Μεταρυθμιστες, but not a considerable population

    After the St Stefan treaty and especially at Makedonian struggle, Balkan wars, WW1 the city chanced a lot.
    to end with population exchange of 1922-3 and WW2.

    besides except Thessaloniki Beroia was also inhabited.


    there is a nice literature book about them, at 1864
    and the ancient city statues that Miller took.




    that was the today Benizelou square



    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Excellent post Yetos... I did not know that. Also didn't realize the surprising cultural balance at that time.


    This large scale destruction of statues is only the tip of the iceberg. Much more concerning is the monitoring of speech patterns, even to the granular level of pronouns. Insisting on the use of "zim" and "zer" for those who feel they are neither male nor female. This in no way fosters diversity. This is a shameless power grab.

    Today's riots are not organic. How did pallet after pallet of brick get delivered to each hotspot the day before things went "live"? And this didn't happen in one city or one state-- suspicious pallets of bricks appeared everywhere. The planners didn't even bother to disguise their efforts by matching the brick color or shape to the surrounding architecture.

    That being said, I'm not worried about the ability of the United States to handle this situation. Our Second Amendment was carved out by the framers for events like these. I'm not a gun-nut by any stretch, in fact I destroyed the firearm I purchased during the Great Recession (at one point I thought that we were facing society-wide food shortages because the economy was that bad) and I realized I didn't want to shoot someone looking for rice and beans for their family. This is different however.

    The silent majority of Americans are now keenly observing developments, quietly studying recent trends... and organizing their defensive strategies. In other words, they are locked and loaded. Ready for whatever may come their way.

    Even I have now altered my Second Amendment status. I pray I do not have to enforce my right to peacefully exist on this planet. But if this nonsense enters the threshhold of my home... it will be met with life altering force. And hastily so.

    And as I've said before, I want justice for George Floyd. That man was killed needlessly and his murderer should be put behind bars for many years. No police officer should be able to act that way, and the we are going to have to make adjustments to make sure any abuse is ended quickly. But what we are seeing now is divorced from the original goal of justice. Tempers are being purposely inflamed, animosities are being exaggerated, violence is being fomented... all by a compliant corporate media.

    Why?
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 19-06-20 at 23:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Double digit unemployment, 100,000+ Americans have perished, but an endless parade of bread and circus microaggressions by nobodies paraded in front of the media keeps the public fighting amongst themselves over relatively trivial matters

    Katie Herzog

    This woman was fired because the Washington Post decided an offensive Halloween costume (for which she was already humiliated) is national news. Way to speak truth to power.





    A working class Mexican man gets fired from his job because a Twitter user took a photo of him cracking his knuckles and claimed he was making a white power gesture. The Twitter user deleted their account and said they didn't mean to get him fired, fwiw. https://nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/


    These people are barking mad...the American version of the Mao's Cultural Revolution. Today they're going after members of the universities and elite media. I'm telling you, tomorrow it will be everyone.

    So should we start denouncing our neighbors? When will the purges begin? Read a history of the show trials in Russia in the 30s; all those "true believers" couldn't comprehend how they could be sitting in the dock, being "tried" by their fellow Communists and countrymen for bogus crap.

    You vote for people affiliated with American far left ideology, who at all tolerate them, at your peril.
    Its getting bad. Now you can be fired to even being associated with someone who has a opinion differing from the majority.

    Trump isn't my first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice but I imagine it would only get worse if Biden was elected especially he has surrounded himself with people who aren't really moderates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Excellent post Yetos... I did not know that. Also didn't realize the surprising cultural balance at that time.


    This large scale destruction of statues is only the tip of the iceberg. Much more concerning is the monitoring of speech patterns, even to the granular level of pronouns. Insisting on the use of "zim" and "zer" for those who feel they are neither male nor female. This in no way fosters diversity. This is a shameless power grab.

    Today's riots are not organic. How did pallet after pallet of brick get delivered to each hotspot the day before things went "live"? And this didn't happen in one city or one state-- suspicious pallets of bricks appeared everywhere. The planners didn't even bother to disguise their efforts by matching the brick color or shape to the surrounding architecture.

    That being said, I'm not worried about the ability of the United States to handle this situation. Our Second Amendment was carved out by the framers for events like these. I'm not a gun-nut by any stretch, in fact I destroyed the firearm I purchased during the Great Recession (at one point I thought that we were facing society-wide food shortages because the economy was that bad) and I realized I didn't want to shoot someone looking for rice and beans for their family. This is different however.

    The silent majority of Americans are now keenly observing developments, quietly studying recent trends... and organizing their defensive strategies. In other words, they are locked and loaded. Ready for whatever may come their way.

    Even I have now altered my Second Amendment status. I pray I do not have to enforce my right to peacefully exist on this planet. But if this nonsense enters the threshhold of my home... it will be met with life altering force. And hastily so.

    And as I've said before, I want justice for George Floyd. That man was killed needlessly and his murderer should be put behind bars for many years. No police officer should be able to act that way, and the we are going to have to make adjustments to make sure any abuse is ended quickly. But what we are seeing now is divorced from the original goal of justice. Tempers are being purposely inflamed, animosities are being exaggerated, violence is being fomented... all by a compliant corporate media.

    Why?


    what USA live today is a kind of Revanchisme of the poor consumers,

    it is the reveange of the victims of the 'cold war era' and 'American Dream'

    at cold war era, at East block they were speaking of previous poverty, bad nobles, power of people, they were searching for 'enemies of the people'
    at W Europe they want to rebuild, so they took other roads
    at USA they were 'buying Luxury'. but no new industry. they won with not an enemy boot step their land, and they had the tremendous nuc bomb. who would dare to mess with them.
    so they provide the model of luxury,

    note 1
    You see USA had tremendous industry before WW2, but no markets, most belong to British empire etc etc
    so they had an economical crash, riots etc etc,
    and while Europe was rebuild under Kaynes economical model,
    USA drop deeper to Chicago model,
    Chicago model gradually de-industraliaze many parts of USA,
    at the begin this is something looking good, since no possible economical crush, and bank and money keeps their power,
    but at the end brings simple people to economical despair, since jobs etc etc,
    and in a country that use to advertise the 'American dream' having no job is big depression,

    note 2
    all the above make culture movements, it is obvious in music,
    but what was the stereotype? the smart and brilliant artist who uses drags and is a succeeded personality
    from Andy Warhol, to today young superstar Justin somehow-whatever, can't remember his last name
    from Merilyn Monroe to the Playboy manager Hugh Hefner etc etc
    All these have effect on people,
    so no matter Drugs are not allowed openly to masses,
    even after 3 generations of prohibited usage, their consumtion raise and raise .

    by completing the mosaic, we see many people in USA living in despair, not that much economical, but rather their personality despair.
    the system slowly drives mad and they believe they are born loosers,
    and then something happens, and suddenly they change and ask for reveange,
    it is just like the lemmings in Siberia, when suddenly they get panic and run to the sea.
    and coronavirus lockdown and jobfire help to this.

    History had many such moments,
    from ancient world especially Rome's plebeians,
    and France and Revolution Francais,
    not even a century passed from Spain's civil war.

    When drags are prohibited, but for 3 generations they are advertised,
    then the system sucks.
    Jobless people gather wrath, till they explode.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    This is a shameless power grab.
    that's the point. Behind all the sweet little lies of justice and egalitarianism, the neurotic will to dominated others is the reason that leftists on power always established totalitarian dictatorships.

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    So do far rightists.

    Beware the false prophets from either extreme. Are we really going to say Nazi Germany wasn't at least as bad, if not worse than Communist Russia?

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    Lest we not forget the Roman empire and it's treatment of slaves, genocide under Titus (famous arch of Titus showing the spoils of a pillaged city)and the treatment of Guals.
    H. event.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So do far rightists.

    Beware the false prophets from either extreme. Are we really going to say Nazi Germany wasn't at least as bad, if not worse than Communist Russia?

    I absolutely agree.

  22. #47
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Lest we not forget the Roman empire and it's treatment of slaves, genocide under Titus (famous arch of Titus showing the spoils of a pillaged city)and the treatment of Guals.
    The French sacked my mother's village in the 1500s, but I think it would be dumb for me to begrudge them for it today.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    Its all ΧροFerens Colombo fault,
    lets punish him,

    Colombo di Terra Rumba seems was not a great seafarist and explorer, but a world criminal .....




    what is next? to be destroyed by wrath?


    and WHAT MAKES ME WONDER?

    why to punish for example Colombo
    and not, always as example, Colin Powell?


    why him?




    and not him? (always a retorical question to bring food for thought.)




    Can someone tell me?

    note 1
    with the same spirit,
    all Moon, Mars, etc space expeditions are criminality,
    and Neil Armstrong the first who step on moon is same degree quilty as Colombo

    Question 1
    Is it lack of education?
    is it stupid propaganda against everything from old Europe (=mother of bad things in world?)
    or it is a quided hate?

  24. #49
    Regular Member Joey37's Avatar
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    The French sacked your village, too? You want to know why there are so many German-Americans in the United States with roots from the Palatinate (such as myself and our President, among others)? The French burned down the Palatinate during the Thirty Years' War and in the War of the Palatine Succession in the 1600s. The area remained economically disadvantaged for years after that, forcing young Palatines like Friedrich Trump and Peter Seller (my great-great-great-grandfather in the male line) to emigrate to New York City and Chicago, respectively. The Pennsylvania Dutch (actually Deutsch) dialect is Palatine in origin; my father likes to visit the Pennsylvania Dutch country and was delighted to find out that their language is quite close to the one our ancestors spoke in the old country.

  25. #50
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    Columbus monument in Trenton, New Jersey covered after vandalism, some call for its removal


    "The history of Christopher Columbus for so long has been wrong. It has been lies. It has been traumatizing to African Americans, Latinx, the black community," said Niambi McCoy … It's become a Latino quarter. So the question is whether that's still relevant for that area," said Gusciora.

    If anything this era in American history has taught me is that violence and destruction is what makes a difference. Not rational discussion, or civility. The reason why politicians and police arrest otherwise law abiding citizens for trying to go to work during a lockdown, and not looters or protestors, is because they are afraid of the violence. They just go after who they can push around, and avoid anything too dicey. Not even the President of the United States can control the violence. I think this country is in decline, and there is no way it is coming back, unfortunately.

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