Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Kurds were Proto-Greek people who adopted an Iranian language

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-19
    Posts
    125
    Points
    209
    Level
    2
    Points: 209, Level: 2
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: Iran



    Kurds were Proto-Greek people who adopted an Iranian language



    Just compare Kurdish phonology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_phonology to Proto-Greek phonology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-...uage#Phonology
    Why there should be aspirated voiceless stops (pʰ, tʰ, kʰ, ...) and labiovelars (kʷ, gʷ, ...) in Kurdish phonology, whereas we know they never existed neither in Proto-Iranian, nor Indo-Iranian and even Satem languages? Of course labiovelars also existed in Hittite phonology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittite_phonology but what about aspirated voiceless stops?

    It seems to be true to say Kurds were originally a non-Indo-European people (probably South Caucasian/Iberian) who adopted Proto-Indo-European language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-...pean_phonology), so for example we see Proto-IE aspirated voiced stops (*bʰ, *dʰ, *gʰ) which didn't exist in their language, were changed to aspirated voiceless stops (pʰ, tʰ, kʰ), and some other sound changes which could make nothing except Proto-Greek language. Afterwards Iranian-speaking conquered Kurdish lands in Anatolia, north of Iraq/Syria and west of Iran, and these people adopted an Iranian language.
    Last edited by Shahmiri; 20-06-20 at 21:59.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    7 days registered1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Activity Award

    Join Date
    15-06-20
    Posts
    351
    Points
    1,276
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,276, Level: 9
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 74
    Overall activity: 99.9%


    Country: United States



    Aren't Kurds relatively recent to Turkey? They seems to have much less Anatolia_N ancestry than Turks, Armenians and even Iranian Azeris.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-19
    Posts
    125
    Points
    209
    Level
    2
    Points: 209, Level: 2
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: Iran



    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    Aren't Kurds relatively recent to Turkey? They seems to have much less Anatolia_N ancestry than Turks, Armenians and even Iranian Azeris.
    This Kurdish phonology, especially about aspirated voiceless stops, that I talked about it, relate to Northern Kurdish (Kurmanji) people who mostly live in the east of Turkey, west Azerbaijan province of Iran and Armenia, I don't think that you can find a big difference between them and Turks/Armenians/Azeris who live in the same region.

  4. #4
    Banned Achievements:
    7 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-06-20
    Posts
    35
    Points
    173
    Level
    2
    Points: 173, Level: 2
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    Why there should be aspirated voiceless stops (pʰ, tʰ, kʰ, ...) and labiovelars (kʷ, gʷ, ...) in Kurdish phonology, whereas we know they never existed neither in Proto-Iranian, nor Indo-Iranian and even Satem languages? Of course labiovelars also existed in Hittite phonology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittite_phonology but what about aspirated voiceless stops?
    Voiceless aspirated stops are a dialectal development that involves most prominently Indo-Iranian, Armenian and Germanic.
    Refrain from absurd pronouncements like "we know they never existed ...", which are outrageously false.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-19
    Posts
    125
    Points
    209
    Level
    2
    Points: 209, Level: 2
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: Iran



    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Deird View Post
    Voiceless aspirated stops are a dialectal development that involves most prominently Indo-Iranian, Armenian and Germanic.
    Refrain from absurd pronouncements like "we know they never existed ...", which are outrageously false.
    I meant Proto-Indo-Iranian: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prot...anian_language

    They certainly didn't exist in Proto-Iranian and Proto-Indo-Iranian but they already exist in some Indo-Iranian languages, like Kurdish. Armenian phonology certainly relates to the same South Caucusian sound system, I strongly believe Proto-Germanic was also not far from this region.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-19
    Posts
    125
    Points
    209
    Level
    2
    Points: 209, Level: 2
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: Iran



    The fact is that ancient Greek sources also talk about Greek people in Indo-Iranian lands as late as 7th century BC and as far as Bijar area in Kurdistan province of Iran, like ancient Sparda/Sparta and its great king Dusanni: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saparda

    We read about Dosanes, Dosenaus, Desanaus, Dorsanes in different ancient Greek sources, as Hercules of the east.


  7. #7
    Banned Achievements:
    7 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-06-20
    Posts
    35
    Points
    173
    Level
    2
    Points: 173, Level: 2
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 77
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Country: France



    Stop quoting wikipedia's garbage

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    I meant Proto-Indo-Iranian: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prot...anian_language
    They certainly didn't exist in Proto-Iranian and Proto-Indo-Iranian but they already exist in some Indo-Iranian languages, like Kurdish. Armenian phonology certainly relates to the same South Caucusian sound system, I strongly believe Proto-Germanic was also not far from this region.
    Indo-Iranian, Germanic and Armenian certainly had voiceless aspirates.
    Stop quoting wikipedia's uninformed garbage.
    And whatever "you strongly believe" about Proto-Germanic without a shred of evidence is also uninformed garbage.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-11-19
    Posts
    125
    Points
    209
    Level
    2
    Points: 209, Level: 2
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: Iran



    Quote Originally Posted by Deird View Post
    Indo-Iranian, Germanic and Armenian certainly had voiceless aspirates.
    Stop quoting wikipedia's uninformed garbage.
    And whatever "you strongly believe" about Proto-Germanic without a shred of evidence is also uninformed garbage.
    If you believe aspirated voiceless stops existed in Proto-Indo-Iranian then you should explain they originated from what Proto-IE sounds and they changed to what sounds in Proto-Iranian and Proto-Indian languages.
    Among all Indo-European languages, just in two branches, voiceless aspirates originated from Proto-IE sounds: Proto-Greek (from voiced aspirates) and Proto-Armenian (from voiceless stops).
    I didn't quote anything from Wikipedia, I just gave some links, I think you also look at references, don't you?
    I'm not interested to talk about Proto-Germanic in this thread, in the last 15 years I have just worked on this language.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •