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Thread: PIE-like languages

  1. #1
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    PIE-like languages

    R1a and R1b languages descent from R1 language.

    R1a1 language descent from R1a language.(this language continue)
    R1a2 language descent from R1a language.(this language extinct)
    R1a1a language descent from R1a1 language(this language continue)
    R1a1b language descent from R1a1 language(this language extinct)
    R1a1a1 language descent from R1a1a language(this language continue)
    R1a1a2 language descent from R1a1a language(this language extinct)

    R1b1 language descent from R1b language(this language continue)
    R1b2 language descent from R1b language(this language extinct)
    R1b1a language descent from R1b1 language(this language continue)
    R1b1a1 language descent from R1b1a language(this language continue)
    R1b1a2 language descent from R1b1a language(this language extinct)
    R1b1a1a language descent from R1b1a1 language(this language continue)
    R1b1a1a1 language descent from R1b1a1a language(this language extinct)
    R1b1a1a2 language descent from R1b1a1a language(this language continue)


    Original R1a and Original R1b languages descent from same language but they are different
    dialects. I think that a language spoken by R1b in lower don is effected by caucasians and PIE emerged.

    Original R1a languages is sister languages of PIE.


  2. #2
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I'm not following... How can you possibly know what language/language family was spoken by the first R1a and R1b speakers more than 20,000 years ago? Languages become completely overhauled and unrecognizable due to internal linguistic changes and accumulated foreign influences after ~10,000-15,000 years. Afro-Asiatic, which is by far the oldest language family commonly accepted by linguists, dates to ~15,000 years ago at most. Besides, languages are spoken by people, not by haplogroups. At a given time and space a certain language family may be strongly correlated with some haplogroup, but that's just circumstantial, it's not likely to remain the same for more than 20,000 years with so many population movements, admixture events, cultural revolutions and random but intense (over such a long time) genetic drift. If a R1b and a R1a language still have modern descendants, we would definitely find it nearly impossible to prove that ancient connection scientifically, because more than 20,000 years would blur the connections completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I'm not following... How can you possibly know what language/language family was spoken by the first R1a and R1b speakers more than 20,000 years ago? Languages become completely overhauled and unrecognizable due to internal linguistic changes and accumulated foreign influences after ~10,000-15,000 years. Afro-Asiatic, which is by far the oldest language family commonly accepted by linguists, dates to ~15,000 years ago at most. Besides, languages are spoken by people, not by haplogroups. At a given time and space a certain language family may be strongly correlated with some haplogroup, but that's just circumstantial, it's not likely to remain the same for more than 20,000 years with so many population movements, admixture events, cultural revolutions and random but intense (over such a long time) genetic drift. If a R1b and a R1a language still have modern descendants, we would definitely find it nearly impossible to prove that ancient connection scientifically, because more than 20,000 years would blur the connections completely.
    same haplogrops is same human groups whose have common languages. R1a and R1b is same paternal origin. I think their original language is same language but different dialect.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    "Same haplogroups is same human groups whose have common languages"

    That is a completely faulty premise that has been repeatedly demonstrated as incorrect by population genetics lately.

    I think their original language is same language but different dialect.

    With the R1b-R1a split being so ancient, we will never know if the earliest R1b males and the earliest R1a males kept speaking the same ancestral language family that was spoken by their earlier R1* ancestors. We will also never be able to test that hypothesis because it is impsossible to reconstruct a language older than ~20 ybp.

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    I doubt they were speaking the same language. I mean if we go further back how do we know if they weren't speaking some sort of East Asian y K2b language? And further back to y IJK.

    Its likely PIE was formed by a West Eurasian population in the Pontic Caspian belonging to y R1a, R1b, Q1a and I2a along with contribution from the Caucasus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    I doubt they were speaking the same language. I mean if we go further back how do we know if they weren't speaking some sort of East Asian y K2b language? And further back to y IJK.

    Its likely PIE was formed by a West Eurasian population in the Pontic Caspian belonging to y R1a, R1b, Q1a and I2a along with contribution from the Caucasus.
    original languages of R1a and original languages of R1b are not same languages, but sister languages.

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    We will never know that. Unfortunately there are some limits in historical linguistics. We can speculate about it, but there is no way to make sure that when the defining mutations of R1a and R1b, respectively, happened the males carrying the haplogroup R1* were still speaking the same language in order to create two similar sister languages lately when R1a and R1b started to spread independently.

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    Yea everything is pretty much conjecture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmak View Post
    original languages of R1a and original languages of R1b are not same languages, but sister languages.
    The asumption always seems to be that when mutations occurred the people separated. R1b and R1a mutated some 20,000 years ago. No doubt some groups went their own way but the R1a and R1b Indo Europeans were still speaking the same language 14,000 years later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngkeithden View Post
    The asumption always seems to be that when mutations occurred the people separated. R1b and R1a mutated some 20,000 years ago. No doubt some groups went their own way but the R1a and R1b Indo Europeans were still speaking the same language 14,000 years later.
    EHG descent from R1a and R1b peoples. R1a and R1b descent from R1 peoples.

    I think that Proto-IE was an EHG language. EHG speaks many languages which are sister language of each other.

    An EHG language(in lower don) is effected by caucasian languages then became Proto-IE. Other EHG languages which was not effected by caucasian languages, replaced by Proto-PIE.

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    I think that EHG language family is recognized by linguists.

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