Genetic and Cultural Differences between Jews and Greeks

YGORCS: I was just playing around with all the Siclian Samples that are in Dodecad 12B and I estimated Sicilian Beaker I4930's coordinates and Sicilian Beaker I4936. Just a quick look at top 25 distances, all them have distances to Neolithic, Chalcolithic samples from Anatolia, Balkans, the Roman Neolithic samples, some get Roman Antiquity, and Iron Age Romans in those top 25 and some as best matches. I can get distances from 2 to 4 on the low end for pretty much all of them to around 10 on top end. One of them, I4383 has distances of 9 to 13 as top 25, and is Levant ancestry for the most part. The Sicilian_Beaker I4930 closest distance is to Minoan I9129, and 2nd closest is Kumtepe6 at 7.5. Sicilian_Beaker_I4936 top 3 matches are Iron Age Romans at 9.8 to 9.9 (R1015, R1016, and R1021). To keep my post at a managable level, here are the top 10 distances for all the Sicilian samples from Fernades et al 2020 and the 2 Sicilian_Bell Beakers. So yes, while they had some Steppe ancestry, even those Bronze Age Sicilians still were predominantly Neolithic EEF type from Anatolia, Balkans, etc, correct?

Distance to:I10373_Sicily_LBA_Marcita
2.08074506I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
2.46432547NE1_Hungary_5230BC
2.54560405I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
2.78095307I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.33490630I1109_Malak_Preslavets
4.08718730I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.09997561I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
4.65787505R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
5.17963319I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.18411998I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I10372_Sicily_LBA_Marcita
4.12688745I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.38588646NE1_Hungary_5230BC
4.69982978I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.77678762I1109_Malak_Preslavets
5.08423052I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.29839598I0048_HAL25_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE
5.34949530I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
5.47462327R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
5.85100846R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
6.09132170I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I10371_Sicily_LBA_Marcita
3.24140402I5068_LBK_Austria
3.37772113I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.61868761I3948_Balkans_Neolithic
4.16461283I3433_Balkans_Neolithic
4.55655572Anatolia_N_Bar8_Barcin
4.61166998I0698_Balkans_Neolithic
4.70006383I2521_Balkans_Neolithic
4.84339757I5069_LBK_Austria
4.88729987I0785_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.12469511R9_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza


Distance to:I4383_Sicily_EBA_lowcov_Vallone_Inferno
9.27571561I1679_AG037C_early_PPNC_Ain_Ghazal_Jordan
9.32486461I1707_AG83_5_Late_MPPNB
9.33427555I1727_AG_83_3082_Early_MPPNB
9.45480830I0644_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant
9.48284240I1414_AG84/1_Early_MPPNB_Ain_Ghazal_Jordan
9.65359519I1710_AG83_6_Middle_MPPNB
10.16158944I1178_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant
10.93192572I1182_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant
10.99811347I0867_Motz1_Late_PPNB_Motza_Israel
11.02119322I1169_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant


Distance to:I4109_Sicily_MBA_Buffa_Cave_II
2.38574936NE1_Hungary_5230BC
3.05437391I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.62405850I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.66387773I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.74030747I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.16468486I5068_LBK_Austria
4.36044722R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
4.38387956I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
4.38387956I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE
4.87456665I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I3878_Sicily_LBA_Marcita
3.10774838I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.41202286I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.45666024I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.46754957I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.35386036NE1_Hungary_5230BC
4.51811908I1109_Malak_Preslavets
5.09864688R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
5.42331080ANI159_ANI181_Varna
5.53299196I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.95218447I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I3876_Sicily_LBA_Marcita
5.72220237I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.93046373ANI159_ANI181_Varna
6.42632088I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese
6.43125182I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
6.81532098I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
6.95271170I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic
7.51433297NE1_Hungary_5230BC
7.75719021I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
7.75719021I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE
7.89376970I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I11443_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II
3.40296929Collegno94
3.85862670R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
4.02052235France_IA_NOR2B6
4.41479331Collegno47
4.48606732NorthAlpineBronzeAgeFrench_AITI_120
4.62529999R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria
4.93207867Collegno102
4.93511905R108_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
4.98007028NorthAlpineBronzeAgeSpanishGalicia_AITI_72
5.28465704I3866_NE_Iberia_c.6-8CE_ES


Distance to:I11442_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II
2.37804542I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.69582197I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.38094739I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.47598034I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.80716132I1109_Malak_Preslavets
4.90296849ANI159_ANI181_Varna
5.43899807I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.63592938I1295_Malak_Preslavets
5.73584344I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
6.98156859ANI160_Varna_Outlier


Distance to:I3125_Sicily_MBA_Buffa_Cave_II
3.69119222I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.42179828I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
4.42179828I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE
4.68846457NE1_Hungary_5230BC
4.80381099I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.81193308I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.61080208I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.67676845I0048_HAL25_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE
5.90437973Anatolia_N_Klei10
5.96377397I2521_Balkans_Neolithic


Distance to:I3124_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II
4.93095325I1295_Malak_Preslavets
5.24644642I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
5.51750850I0706_Balkans_Neolithic
6.29726131I2110_Trypillia
6.56469344I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju
6.77674701Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge
7.76561009R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
7.86561504ANI160_Varna_Outlier
8.18328174I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic
8.46710694I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I3123_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II
4.16385639I1295_Malak_Preslavets
4.28827471I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.51478682I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.88328990I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.96274266I0706_Balkans_Neolithic
6.17085894ANI160_Varna_Outlier
6.23114757I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
6.31201236ANI159_ANI181_Varna
6.60343850I1109_Malak_Preslavets
6.62733732I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge


Distance to:I3122_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II
3.89434205R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza
4.89766271R104_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
4.91419373I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo
5.64912383I1298_Balkans_Neolithic
5.99037561R16_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
6.42548831I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE
6.52166390R5_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza
6.56332233I2477_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy
6.61049166I5207_LBK_Austria
6.85095614R1014_Chalcolithic_Monte_San_Biagio


Distance to:I4065_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna
4.26324993I2425_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.04007936I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.51390968ANI160_Varna_Outlier
6.09534248I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo
6.13104396I1109_Malak_Preslavets
6.19706382I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
6.42070090I1295_Malak_Preslavets
6.97904721I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
7.49478485I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
8.03534691I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic


Distance to:I4064_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna
1.92942997I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE
2.84371236I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE
3.00153294I5207_LBK_Austria
3.41218405I4168_Balkans_Neolithic
3.43778999I5206_LBK_Austria
3.96964734I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
4.00296140I1131_Balkans_Neolithic
4.03311294R2_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza
4.16455280I5208_LBK_Austria
4.27325403R10_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza


Distance to:I4063_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna
3.65861996R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza
4.21939569I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE
4.75331463I5207_LBK_Austria
5.11871078R16_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
5.81406054I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE
6.37605678I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
6.39517787I0659_HAL2_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5079-4997_calBCE
6.46263878R5_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza
6.62322429I4167_Balkans_Neolithic
6.64015060I4168_Balkans_Neolithic


Distance to:I4062_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna
2.40339343R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
2.50836600I4168_Balkans_Neolithic
2.58663875I5206_LBK_Austria
2.72444490R10_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza
2.76085132R2_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza
2.79910700I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE
2.97882527I1131_Balkans_Neolithic
3.12147401R8_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza
3.12800256I5208_LBK_Austria
3.13150124I0057_HAL34_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5207-5067_calBCE


Distance to:I7807_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana
1.66952089I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.19903110I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic
3.99597297I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic
4.93265649I1109_Malak_Preslavets
5.37071690I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.49314118I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic
5.57661187ANI159_ANI181_Varna
5.81320910I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic
7.44409833NE1_Hungary_5230BC
7.70971465I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE


Distance to:I7805_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana
7.30767405I3879_Malak_Preslavets
9.21722301I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
10.21845879I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo
10.69100089I2426_Balkans_Chalcolithic
10.74459399I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
11.08821446I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE
11.10822668I0560_QLB18A_Baalberge_MN_Quedlinburg_IX_Germany_3640-3510_calBCE
11.62089067R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza
11.69959401R104_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
11.70996157I5205_LBK_Austria


Distance to:I7800_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana
5.17469806I2111_Trypillia
6.93037517HispanoRomanMaghrebiCordobaCaliphate_I7497
8.64827150I2520_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.30288127I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.32493968Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge
9.34563534I3578_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
9.49149619LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3581
9.50241022I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju
9.63873954I3582_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE
9.68907632I3579_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE


Distance to:I7796_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana
6.38157504I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
6.40158574I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
6.64335006I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
7.13919463I3709_Peloponnese_Neolithic
7.39129894Kumtepe006_Anatolian
7.54225430I8208_NE_Iberia_Hel_Empuries2
8.47769426I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
8.57864208I2318_Peloponnese_Neolithic
8.63081688I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
9.56215980I0679_Krepost_Neolithic


Distance to:I7774_d_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana
3.02145660I0056_HAL14_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE
3.96720304I4168_Balkans_Neolithic
4.92106696I5205_LBK_Austria
5.48245383I1109_Malak_Preslavets
5.77051124I5208_LBK_Austria
5.78651017R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
5.78877362R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado
6.05326358I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE
6.12959216I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE
6.20174169I1131_Balkans_Neolithic


Distance to:I8561_Sicily_EBA_Isnello
5.40012963R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
5.58181870IronAgeCatalan_I12640
5.60164262R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
6.20312018France_BA_PIR3037AB
6.31986550I1297_Malak_Preslavets
7.12013343MX299_Switzerland_LN
7.33978883I2215_Malak_Preslavets
7.36342312ElSotilloBasqueCountry_I1977
7.38828126R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
7.44951005R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima


Distance to:Sicilian_Beaker_I4936
9.88733533R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
9.89697934R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
9.99385811R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
10.33205691I2110_Trypillia
10.63891442I3151_Trypillia
10.71665060I1295_Malak_Preslavets
10.90533356I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge
11.15414273R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
11.42367717I0706_Balkans_Neolithic
12.49268186France_BA_PIR3037AB


Distance to:I4930_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Sicily
5.09041256I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete
7.54527667Kumtepe006_Anatolian
8.19122701I3498_Balkans_Neolithic
8.48055423I0174_BAM25_Starcevo_EN_Alsónyék-Bátaszék_Mérnöki_telep_Hungary_5710-5530_calBCE
8.59672030I3709_Peloponnese_Neolithic
9.11530032Anatolia_N_Bar8_Barcin
9.18082785I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
9.36654686I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
9.45330630I2519_Balkans_Chalcolithic
9.63348846I3708_Peloponnese_Neolithic

So I am curios, if you can run your G25 program on these Sicilian samples and see how they can be modeled with respect to the Roman samples, most of these were already similar to those Roman samples, 14 of the 25 and most of the others seem similar to Greek/Anatolians. So seems in totality those ancient Sicilian Samples were Roman to Greek like already, some a little more towards 1, some the other, but it seems like Sicilians by 2000 BC had people that resembled the Iron Age Romans, hence the Southern Shifted Iron Age Romans are really not that surprising perhaps? (I don't think they are) and Imperial Romans, at least the 31 of 48 that in terms of distribution range from Central Italy to Malta then over to Greece, Crete, etc, is not really that surprising perhaps as well? ( I don't personally think it is).
 
Only 14% of the imperial romans
Were in cluster c4 ( lebanese syrian profile)
 
Vahaduo Dodecad K12b - Modern and Ancient-
Samples from Ardea

UeLmib5.jpg


ezgJ0UX.jpg


UjRLd3I.jpg

PS: According Dodecad K12b, R851 is not an outlier. He is just a little bit more to North.
 
Only 14% of the imperial romans
Were in cluster c4 ( lebanese syrian profile)

Of the samples they took, how could you possibly know if that had any significant implication for the population at large? Frankly, I am of the opinion that lumping all these samples in as one is idiotic, and circular thinking for people that want to prove their currently unprovable claims about the dynamics of the Imperial Roman era.

@Ygorc, no disrepect, but please consider the idea that this construct could be misleading.
 
@Ygorcs, here is a better example. Take Brazil, and try lump all of the people there into one ethnic component. Clearly Durate is more Iberian than anything else, while you are multi-racial, does it make sense for a component like that for him to be analyized with? Would we ever know that the Portuguese ever conquered the land, and imported slaves, by looking at that kind of sample?
 
So what? Of the samples they took, how could you possibly know if that had any significant implication for the population at large? Frankly, I am of the opinion that lumping all these samples in as one is idiotic, and circular thinking for people that want to prove their currently unprovable claims.
Relex :unsure:
This group died out in the late antiquity romans
(C4 group near eastern) dissapear...:unsure:
 
About Philistines I don't agree. Philistines were not simply Greeks/Aegeans, they were a specific society and culture that appeared in the Southern Levant from a mixture of Greek/Aegean immigrants with local Levantines. I don't think equating 100% Greek = true Philistinees is a corrrect description of what the majority of the Philistines must've been like genetically and even culturally. This is a bit like saying only 100% Anglo-Saxon/Northwestern European-Americans are "true Yankees", all the rest do not belong to the same ethnic and sociocultural population.

Here is ASH068 vs other ancient samples found here: [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-k12b-ANCIENT-vahaduo.htm[/FONT]

He doesn't even come close to the other ASH samples.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]
frYYOX7.png
[/FONT]
 
Ygorcs: Following up to my post 501, again I was just playing around with some samples. I used all the Ancient Sardinian samples from Fernandes et al 2020 an all the Roman samples from Antonio et al 2019 as the Source Data and then put the Sicilian Samples as the Target (MLBA and 2 Beakers) and estimated model fits 0.25X

Distances:
between 0 and 1: 8 of them
1 and 2: 7 of them
2 and 3: 3 of them
3 and 4: 1 of them
4 and 5: 2 of them
6 and 7: 2 of them
7 and 10: None
> 10: One of them, I4383 which as noted before was Levant like

So using Dodecad12B, can get very good fits for all these Ancient Sicilians, except 1, using only the Ancient Roman and Ancient Sardinians are source data. I am wondering you how G25 or what it does with respect to modeling these ancient Sicilians and trying to determine if they were in fact already "similar in ancestry" to the Iron Age, and Imperial Romans that were Southern Italian shifted?
 
Relex :unsure:
This group died out in the late antiquity romans
(C4 group near eastern) dissapear...:unsure:

What the samples show is that the Imperial era was multi-ethnic to a degree, though it does not tell us at what magnatude. I think the fact that these people "disappear" does not indicated that they heavily mixed with the natives, but because they were a small minority, that died out, and/or mixed out of existence.

I have said prior, that I think it is possible that the legacy of Greek colonists could have played a role in the re-population of Italy, after the fall of the Roman Empire. Especially in the south, were they were many. The extent of which, has yet to be determined. Though it would probably be difficult to discern, because I think it is possible that the southern Italian natives were already Greek-like prior to colonization, though not necessarily from Greece.
 
Here is ASH068 vs other ancient samples found here: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-k12b-ANCIENT-vahaduo.htm

He doesn't even come close to the other ASH samples.

frYYOX7.png

Well with respect to my Distances, it does seem ASH068 is different for me, vs the other ASH samples. So if ASH068 is basically Greek like, it would explain why that sample is closer to me vs the other ASH samples which are not Greek like apparently as they would be closer to ASH068. As an FYI again, NAT GENO gives me Italian as my #1 reference population and my #2 is Greek. This is not surprising to me, given Sicily's genetic profile and history matches the rest of Italy from the Mesolithic to Neolithic period almost identical, Bronze Age to Roman period, very similar, but more so with Central to South, then plus/minus some regional variation here and there in the waning years of the Roman empire to Italian Reunification in the 19th century. I would expect other Italians whose ancestry is from the South would mirror my distances with respect to the ASH samples.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani
13.59141273ASH068_Iron_Age1
18.41013036ASH067_Iron_Age1
24.59238500ASH066_Iron_Age1
25.91632497ASH029_Late_Bronze_Age
28.40294527ASH034_Late_Bronze_Age
31.49757292ASH087_Iron_Age2
31.50650092ASH008_Iron_Age2
31.76034477ASH033_Late_Bronze_Age
32.47351536ASH135_Iron_Age2
45.05630145ASH2-3_Iron_Age1
 
Well with respect to my Distances, it does seem ASH068 is different for me, vs the other ASH samples. So if ASH068 is basically Greek like, it would explain why that sample is closer to me vs the other ASH samples which are not Greek like apparently as they would be closer to ASH068. As an FYI again, NAT GENO gives me Italian as my #1 reference population and my #2 is Greek. This is not surprising to me, given Sicily's genetic profile and history matches the rest of Italy from the Mesolithic to Neolithic period almost identical, Bronze Age to Roman period, very similar, but more so with Central to South, then plus/minus some regional variation here and there in the waning years of the Roman empire to Italian Reunification in the 19th century. I would expect other Italians whose ancestry is from the South would mirror my distances with respect to the ASH samples.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani
13.59141273ASH068_Iron_Age1
18.41013036ASH067_Iron_Age1
24.59238500ASH066_Iron_Age1
25.91632497ASH029_Late_Bronze_Age
28.40294527ASH034_Late_Bronze_Age
31.49757292ASH087_Iron_Age2
31.50650092ASH008_Iron_Age2
31.76034477ASH033_Late_Bronze_Age
32.47351536ASH135_Iron_Age2
45.05630145ASH2-3_Iron_Age1

Are there any good threads about Southern Italian/Sicilian population genetics and also in relation to ancient Roman samples? I personally have no interest in Jewish genetics.
 
Going by the updated k12b from Vahaduo, I see this one is the most accurate of all for me and my (tested) Italian family members.
 
Dimanto Ruben: I am not a Moderator or advisor, you should ask one of them, but I do recall there being some older threads specifically about Ancient Romans. Jovialis I think started those threads, he could give you more precise information.
 
You're an active member with several posts about Italian population genetics. I thought you would be THE ONE to ask.

Okay, thanks I'll ask.

No problem, I am active, correct, but I stay in my lane so to speak. No offense but part of my American of Sicilian Italian risk aversion, just want to be an active member and rather the mods and advisors handle specific questions about topics from new members. If you have question about my results that I post, well, that is different of course as we are talking about me.

I think you can understand where I am coming from as some of these forums can get a little hot and the Mods have their hands full trying to keep everyone civil and respectful
 
@Palermo,

Here are my results. I think this illustrates why it is important to see the samples on an individual basis. We only have some affinity to just one sample, ASH067 is half philistine, so it is to a lesser extent as close, while the others are way far off.

J7m6Tz7.png
 
Jovialis: Thanks, your results confirm my ex ante priors. They follow the same general pattern as mine, ASH068 sort of stands out, then ASH067, then large break where from ASH066 to ASH2-3, our results follow the same distribution pattern.

I would think other Southern Italians or Americans (Canadians, Australians, etc) with 100% of their Ancestry from the South would overwhelmingly follow the same basic pattern
 
Here is ASH068 vs other ancient samples found here: http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-k12b-ANCIENT-vahaduo.htm

He doesn't even come close to the other ASH samples.

frYYOX7.png

I completely agree. It would be like finding 8 samples in a burial in the 17th century in Mexico and labeling them Spanish colonialists when one is actually Spanish, one is his mestizo son and the rest are all Aztecs or members of other Indian tribes.

It's silly.
 

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