Are these Argentine admixture percentages accurate?

Yes Angela. That producer was cruel to her.

IMO, Maryl calls attention to the elegance too. For me, beauty is the “work as a whole” and includes: Physical appearance, intelligence, good humor, culture, sympathy, empathy. Here in Brazil the maxim always applies: “You shouldn't judge the book by its cover”. We are a people who undress a lot in beaches, clubs and other places of leisure. The cult of the beautiful body here is a fever. That is why we always need to remember this saying. Here in Brazil what most afflicts a person is not ethnicity, but whether you look ugly or beautiful to others.

I can also be very grouchy, and the older I get, the more grouchy I get, too. lol.(y):LOL:

Very wisely put. :)

If you haven't seen the film, here's a featurette; it's very funny, and heart warming. I get tired of all the doom sometimes.

 
Very wisely put. :)

If you haven't seen the film, here's a featurette; it's very funny, and heart warming. I get tired of all the doom sometimes.


Thanks for the suggestion, Angela. In fact, seems a very complicated plot, lol. Cool.
 
Wow, I happen to think young Meryl Streep was no classic, seamless beauty, but very attractive a in a unique way, especially in the Choice of Sophia. At least you could never accuse her of having too ordinary looks. She had a strikingly personal figure.

16584_47584_17256.jpg
 
Is he what you guys mean by an Argentine who is mostly European but with some Amerindian added?

11626-800w.jpg

Yes, and also people looking pretty much like this. In Buenos Aires I'd say not more than 20% of the people I saw were like this or more Amerindian-looking (a few even black, but I was told they are often Uruguayans, where dilution of black ancestry was much lower than in Argentina for many historic and social reasons).

images

sandro1.jpg

Argentine singers Gary and Sandro


But I don't know how to judge the greatest of all Argentine actors of our days, Ricardo Darín (amazing actor in some of the best movies I've seen from the last 15 years). He looks virtually Southern European-like, but there is something different that I don't know what it is.

f0cfcc7a567df0aebd0e88b61f8a2c2a.jpg


1140-retrato-actor-ricardo-darin-esp.imgcache.reve4164255df681c3f9e538a59ad8d6712.jpg
 
I'd say a sizeable minority (at last 10%) of Buenos Aires people are also more like Mercedes Sousa, a more Amerindian-looking people but clearly admixed with Europeans, but in the northwestern and central-western provinces I'm sure the proportion of people with type of look are a lot higher. By the way, this is SOOOOO beautiful (also note the way she pronounces "Parra", with /r/ turning into a /zh/-like sound, which is typical of some northern Argentine, Bolivian and Peruvian dialects, again suggesting the closer links of Northern Argentina to the more Amerindian-shifted Andean area)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgjAOk6BX8g
 
Yes, and also people looking pretty much like this. In Buenos Aires I'd say not more than 20% of the people I saw were like this or more Amerindian-looking (a few even black, but I was told they are often Uruguayans, where dilution of black ancestry was much lower than in Argentina for many historic and social reasons).

images

sandro1.jpg

Argentine singers Gary and Sandro


But I don't know how to judge the greatest of all Argentine actors of our days, Ricardo Darín (amazing actor in some of the best movies I've seen from the last 15 years). He looks virtually Southern European-like, but there is something different that I don't know what it is.

f0cfcc7a567df0aebd0e88b61f8a2c2a.jpg


1140-retrato-actor-ricardo-darin-esp.imgcache.reve4164255df681c3f9e538a59ad8d6712.jpg

The Latin American spice, I think. :unsure:
Maybe that’s the difference in he and what turns he so unique, lol.
Cheers dear fellow.
Meryl is also a unique kind of beauty.(y):)
 
I'd say a sizeable minority (at last 10%) of Buenos Aires people are also more like Mercedes Sousa, a more Amerindian-looking people but clearly admixed with Europeans, but in the northwestern and central-western provinces I'm sure the proportion of people with type of look are a lot higher. By the way, this is SOOOOO beautiful (also note the way she pronounces "Parra", with /r/ turning into a /zh/-like sound, which is typical of some northern Argentine, Bolivian and Peruvian dialects, again suggesting the closer links of Northern Argentina to the more Amerindian-shifted Andean area)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgjAOk6BX8g

 
It was the elder Dino de Laurentiis who called her "brutta" or ugly. She describes it here:


Her co-guests didn't seem to think it was the case even when she was closer to 60. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH87lb_gc5U

At the end she says: I was just looking for an excuse. I'm sure most women would feel the same way. :)


As for Ricardo Darin, is it something across the eye area? Everything else can be seen in lots of places in Europe. Yet I feel silly saying it because the shape of them is not really different. Can it be a certain "look" in them?

Maybe I'm being too fanciful.
 
The Latin American spice, I think. :unsure:
Maybe that’s the difference in he and what turns he so unique, lol.
Cheers dear fellow.
Meryl is also a unique kind of beauty.(y):)

As a totally disinterested party, I have to agree. :grin::LOL:
 
It was the elder Dino de Laurentiis who called her "brutta" or ugly. She describes it here:


Her co-guests didn't seem to think it was the case even when she was closer to 60. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH87lb_gc5U

At the end she says: I was just looking for an excuse. I'm sure most women would feel the same way. :)


As for Ricardo Darin, is it something across the eye area? Everything else can be seen in lots of places in Europe. Yet I feel silly saying it because the shape of them is not really different. Can it be a certain "look" in them?

Maybe I'm being too fanciful.

What sympathy. Meryl Streep is really unique.
 
As for Ricardo Darin, is it something across the eye area? Everything else can be seen in lots of places in Europe. Yet I feel silly saying it because the shape of them is not really different. Can it be a certain "look" in them?

Maybe I'm being too fanciful.

Thanks, now I can feel a bit better because I'm not imagining crazy things. :LOL: I always thought there is a certain specific "Argentine" look. Not the majority, but a lot of people have it there. It's not Italian, not Iberian, not Amerindian. It's a certain defined type, but I can't pinpoint what exactly it is. As you say, m main clue is in the eye area: a bit like an averaged European+Amerindian eye shape... Maybe that's what happens when you intensively mix Iberians, Italians and Amerindians?
 
Rodolfo "Fito" Páez is an Argentine composer, singer and pianist.

a2cKrG1.jpg


0jwPvKo.jpg


Fito was born in the province of Santa Fé on March 13, 1963. Below is a performance in Brazil with the Brazilian Pop Rock Band “Titãs”.

 
The descendants of unmixed Italian immigrants in Brazil are concentrated in not very large geographical areas in the Serra Gaúcha, State of Rio Grande do Sul, and are mainly from Veneto, like most Italian immigrants who arrived in Brazil during the long history of Italian immigration to here.
A relatively big area in Serra Gaúcha is indeed an important hotspot of unmixed Italians (of course there're lots of mixed Italians as well), however, I'd say it's not the only area where you can find them somewhat easily. Roughly speaking, they may also be found in a Central area of the state, "Quarta Colônia" (around Santa Maria-RS), other parts of the North of the state, West - and parts of North - of Santa Catarina, also in the area around Criciúma/Urussanga etc., parts of South of Paraná... Not saying they're majority in these areas, naturally. In many places there're much higher chances of finding them already mixed mainly with Iberians+NA+SSA (this one is the typical "gaúcho") and/or Germans. Many of these "Italians" in West of Santa Catarina and South of Paraná descend from 'Italians" firstly settled in Rio Grande do Sul, who "expanded" from Serra Gaúcha soon or later. You can also find some unmixed in Espírito Santo (as my mother-in-law) and also in São Paulo (even if at lower frequencies). I believe they will be absolutely rare everywhere in few generations. Normal process. My son and all my siblings' children are already mixed Italians, for example.
Now, the number of people with some Italian ancestry is very, very high in some parts of Brazil, especially in São Paulo. Probably many millions.

Bty, like Argentina pretty much. Have been there several times in the last years.
 
About the main question of the thread, this study indicates a dramatic regional structure in Argentina between Buenos Aires (capital & province), where the majority of the national population lives, and the other generally less populated regions, especially in the North (until the late colonial era the most populous one) and the South (only definitely conquered by Argentines in the late 19th century). Certainly a much bigger regional difference than in Brazil, where, according to most genetic studies, all regions have a minimum of ~50-55% and a maximum of ~75-80% European ancestry.

"Most of the studies that evaluated the distribution of genetic ancestry in Argentina included samples from the Buenos Aires province, where a great proportion of the population resides [1], [4], [5], [6]. The ancestry proportion estimates for this region by these studies ranged between 78–90% European, 15–19% Indigenous American and 2–4% African. A report on genome admixture proportions among Latin American Mestizos that included a small set of individuals from three provinces in the Argentine Northwest, Tucuman, Catamarca and Salta, reported ancestry estimates of 30%, 42% and 72% Indigenous American ancestry, respectively [7]"

The mean European ancestry for BA was 76% (95%CI: 73–79%), for NWA was 33% (95%CI: 21–41), for NEA 54% (95%CI: 49–58%) and for the South 54% (95"%CI: 49–59%). These observed differences in estimated proportions of European and Indigenous American ancestry across regions were statistically significant (p = 0.0001).

There is also class/socioeconomic genetic structure just like in Brazil (but in Brazil much of the non-European ancestry in poorer people is African, but also with relevant Native American contributions):

Individuals from Buenos Aires city were ascertained from two large hospitals, one private (n = 79) and one public (n = 89). Individuals from the private hospital had more European ancestry (80%; 95%CI: 76–85%) compared to individuals ascertained from the public hospital (76%; 95%CI: 72–80%), p = 0.028. To investigate the potential cause for this heterogeneity within the city of Buenos Aires, we determined the association between place of residence and genetic ancestry. Individuals recruited in these hospitals were residents of either the city of Buenos Aires proper, or the immediate surrounding urban areas (urban belts 1 and 2, Figure S1). Even though there was high variance of individual European and Indigenous American ancestry within every urban belt and within the city of Buenos Aires proper (Figure S2), we observed statistically significant differences in the average estimate of European or Indigenous American ancestry across these three regions, in particular, when we compared individuals from the city of Buenos Aires proper and the 1st urban belt to individuals from the 2nd urban belt (p = 0.01) (Table 1). Moreover, the differences in genetic ancestry estimates between the two hospitals in the city of Buenos Aires can be completely explained by the higher proportion of 2nd urban belt residents in the public hospital (19% in the public vs. 11% in the private). When 2nd urban belt residents were removed from the analysis, there were no significant differences in European ancestry between the two hospitals.

image
 
A relatively big area in Serra Gaúcha is indeed an important hotspot of unmixed Italians (of course there're lots of mixed Italians as well), however, I'd say it's not the only area where you can find them somewhat easily. Roughly speaking, they may also be found in a Central area of the state, "Quarta Colônia" (around Santa Maria-RS), other parts of the North of the state, West of of Santa Catarina (and parts of North), also in the area around Criciúma/Urussanga etc., parts of South of Paraná... Not saying they're majority in these areas, naturally. In many places there're much higher chances of finding them already mixed mainly with Iberians+NA+SSA (this one is the typical "gaúcho") and/or Germans, of course. Many of these "Italians" in West of Santa Catarina and South of Paraná descend from 'Italians" firstly settled in Rio Grande do Sul, who "expanded" from Serra Gaúcha soon or later. You can also find some unmixed in Espírito Santo (as my mother-in-law) and also in São Paulo (even if at lower frequencies). I believe they will be absolutely rare everywhere in few generations. Normal process. My son and all my siblings' children are already mixed Italians, for example.
Now, the number of people with some Italian ancestry is very, very high in some parts of Brazil, especially in São Paulo. Likely many millions.

Bty, like Argentina pretty much. Have been there several times in the last years.

The miscegenation of Iberians and Italians in Brazil has always been very common. Italians have completely integrated into our culture. My son is a miscegenation of a Iberian-Brazilian guy (me, lol) with an Italian-Brazilian girl (my wife) of a family from the Veneto . She was born on the border between Minas and Espírito Santo (Serra do Caparaó region). She wanted to impress me by showing all of her family's land and farm headquarters in the region. But I was just impressed only with her, lol. Her aunt owned the only hotel in town and I stayed hosted there.

PS: 30% of population of BH has Italian ancestry and the Cruzeiro Esporte Clube (I'm sorry, but I “hate” the Cruzeiro, former Palestra Itália of Belo Horizonte) was founded by people of the Italian colony. Today this second-rate football team (lol) is plotting a game with the Italian selection of football to celebrate its 100 years of foundation. Poor. My Galo, my heart club is a hundred years old it's been a long time . lol.

ibBuHdz.jpg
 
The miscegenation of Iberians and Italians in Brazil has always been very common. Italians have completely integrated into our culture. My son is a miscegenation of a Iberian-Brazilian guy (me, lol) with an Italian-Brazilian girl (my wife) of a family from the Veneto . She was born on the border between Minas and Espírito Santo (Serra do Caparaó region). She wanted to impress me by showing all of her family's land and farm headquarters in the region. But I was just impressed only with her, lol. Her aunt owned the only hotel in town and I stayed hosted there.

PS: 30% of population of BH has Italian ancestry and the Cruzeiro Esporte Clube (I'm sorry, but I “hate” the Cruzeiro, former Palestra Itália of Belo Horizonte) was founded by people of the Italian colony. Today this second-rate football team (lol) is plotting a game with the Italian selection of football to celebrate its 100 years of foundation. Poor. My Galo, my heart club is a hundred years old it's been a long time . lol.

ibBuHdz.jpg
Cool! There're this little city in that area (closer to Minas) called Vila Nova do Imigrante. It's possibly one of the few places in Espírito Santo where some Talian speakers can still be found. My mother-in-law's family is from around Cachoeiro though, a more "Brazilian" city compared to Vila Nova. My father-in-law is a typical Brazilian from Central-West.

Yeah, I know about Cruzeiro's old name. Nice! Same as Palmeiras. I'm Grêmio (not related to Italian immigration in origin), but also Juventude (this one yes is related).
Like Galo, btw. I was very happy for your Libertadores in 2013. :)
 
[QUOTE=Regio X;608989]Cool! There're this little city in that area (closer to Minas) called Vila Nova do Imigrante. It's possibly one of the few places in Espírito Santo where some Talian speakers can still be found. My mother-in-law's family is from around Cachoeiro though, a more "Brazilian" city compared to Vila Nova. My father-in-law is a typical Brazilian from Central-West.

Yeah, I know about Cruzeiro's old name. Nice! Same as Palmeiras. I'm Grêmio (not related to Italian immigration in origin), but also Juventude (this one yes is related).
Like Galo, btw. I was very happy for your Libertadores in 2013. :)[/QUOTE]

That's it Regio. (y)
The Palestra Itália of São Paulo, today Palmeiras, was founded by people from the Italian colony of São Paulo. Incredibly, the fans of Galo and Palmeiras are brothers. The Palmeiras fans are the bro of the Galo fans and not the Cruzeiro fans (see the integration). My wife and her whole family support Cruzeiro and my son, following me and my whole family support Galo. My son is part of the “Torcida Organizada Galo Metal”.

PS: Thanks Regio. I have a great admiration for Grêmio and Renato Gaúcho.
 
Astor Piazzola, child of Italian immigrants to Argentina, who developed "Nuevo Tango" and was called the foremost composer of tango music in the world.

It's my favorite dance, as it was my father's favorite dance, who taught it to me by the traditional method of having me put my feet on top of his.

piazzolla_portrait_shadow.jpg


His Libertango, one of my favorites, as interpreted by YoYo Ma and Nestor Marconi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUAPf_ccobc

A great dance performance of it:

Another favorite is Oblivion. This is among my top five tango performances 'ever'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Hy6WE0SHU
 
Tango is really amazing. By far IMO the most beautiful and sensual (sexy, not vulgar) dance of all. Have you ever seen a traditional tango show? My eyes couldn't even capture all the tiny little and extremely fast leg movements, it's really impressive, and I'm not even a diehard dance lover, but tango and also traditional gaucho dances with "boleadoras" (also practicted in the Brazilian pampas; in the show I attended it was a father and his little but talented child doing it together) really impressed me in Argentina.

 

This thread has been viewed 28183 times.

Back
Top